Observation Car Marker LED Board: Making Wiring a Little Easier!

Getting into this PCB stuff now, right Rod?

I wonder if maybe having a whole set of pads all along the side might make sense for a "universal" board, that way you could plop the LED anywhere it needed to be.  You also forgot the 22uh inductor for DCS...

Another interesting idea would be to have a constant current supply on the PCB with a capacitor so you don't have flickering markers/rear lighting.  That's one of the benefits of doing LED lighting, might as well take advantage of it.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I wonder if maybe having a whole set of pads all along the side might make sense for a "universal" board, that way you could plop the LED anywhere it needed to be.  You also forgot the 22uh inductor for DCS...

Another interesting idea would be to have a constant current supply on the PCB with a capacitor so you don't have flickering markers/rear lighting.  That's one of the benefits of doing LED lighting, might as well take advantage of it.

Good point grj; I might do a Mark 2 version with more location pads along the sides, after I experiment with the first ones a bit. They won't likely be here until about the end of the month, so we shall see.

Regarding the inductor, the idea was to couple these with led strips powered by my "roll-your-own" version of your constant current lighting boards, which already have the inductor built in; so no need I figured. Besides I didn't think there would be anything going on with this simple circuit that might create DCS interference anyway. And you already have the cap on the main board to mitigate flicker, bridge rectifier, adjustable current output, etc.

My thinking was to build up about 6 of these at a time, ready to install and hookup whenever converting a car to led lighting. I also plan to convert a few cabeese to led lighting and these may work for that purpose too. Thanks for the ideas!

Rod

Maybe replace the resistor with a 2K pot, that makes it universal.  With the pot you don't have to select a resistor, you can tune it for the proper light output.

@Rod Stewart This looks promising! I can't wait to see how this works out for you when the boards get here. I have had success using JLC PCB, but I don't know how their prices compare to other services.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Maybe replace the resistor with a 2K pot, that makes it universal.  With the pot you don't have to select a resistor, you can tune it for the proper light output.

Another good idea John, thanks! I will probably build one of the first boards up with a trim pot just to test things out. Once a value for R1 is settled on that will likely be all that I will use. Right now its looking like 330 ohm with the constant current board set at 30 ma, but that could change.

@bigboy25 posted:

@Rod Stewart This looks promising! I can't wait to see how this works out for you when the boards get here. I have had success using JLC PCB, but I don't know how their prices compare to other services.

JLCPCB is where I ordered the boards from. I have used them and ALLPCB for most board orders. Both are good. When playing with order quantities the base shipping cost was the same up to 100 boards, so that's what I went for. For quantities larger the shipping was going to be more. They said fab time was going to be 5-6 days, and shipping time another 5-6 days. This seems doubtful and I am betting on more like the end of August.

@Rod Stewart posted:

Another good idea John, thanks! I will probably build one of the first boards up with a trim pot just to test things out. Once a value for R1 is settled on that will likely be all that I will use. Right now its looking like 330 ohm with the constant current board set at 30 ma, but that could change.

Actually, you might find that you have cars with only side markers, and other cars with only rear facing lights.  Those require a different resistor value.  Also, sometimes the light fixtures require more or less intensity.  Also, if you use yellow or amber LED's in something like heavyweight coaches, they tend to require a bit more current, that would make the markers brighter, maybe too bright.

@Rod Stewart posted:

JLCPCB is where I ordered the boards from. I have used them and ALLPCB for most board orders. Both are good. When playing with order quantities the base shipping cost was the same up to 100 boards, so that's what I went for. For quantities larger the shipping was going to be more. They said fab time was going to be 5-6 days, and shipping time another 5-6 days. This seems doubtful and I am betting on more like the end of August.

You might be surprised.  I typically get boards in about two weeks including shipping from my China supplier.  Here's a recent order I made, from the time I put the order in with the two sets of Gerber files, until I actually had boards was just about two weeks.  Each of these were for 100 individual boards, and they panel them into larger panels for production.

Just got notification that these boards have shipped. 6 days from order, not bad. Now we will see how long shipping takes!

Rod

I think they ship DHL, so it should only be a few days at most.

UPDATE: So the board order arrived Aug 13; a couple of days under two weeks. Not bad at all.

Here is the first batch of boards built up and ready to drop in. I used cool white FF 3mm leds and 300 ohm load resistors, which looked right to my eye after some testing.

The next car set on the led conversion list was MTH 60' N & W streamliners, so that's what is getting the test run. Here is the board glued in, strip leds in place and wired to the marker led board. The side marker leds have been aligned to the bezels (well, close anyway), all tested and ready to slip into the car.

Here is the finished car on the layout and looking pretty good to me.

All in all I am quite happy with the way these boards turned out and how much easier they make the whole marker led installation business. As mentioned earlier I ordered a batch of 100 of these guys, so I can sell a few lots to those who might be interested. Price would be 50 cents a piece plus a nominal fee for standard mailing in a bubble envelope.

Alternatively I can post the gerbers for anyone who wants to have their own boards made, but I can tell you they are several times more costly from OSHPark. (Their price is $13 bucks for three boards I recall)

Rod

Very nice and very professional looking.  👍👍

Cool Rod, glad it worked out for you.

I put together some notes regarding use of these boards which are attached below, in case they are of assistance to anyone. There is both a word file and a .pdf file

Rod

Just refreshing this topic for anyone interested in the story behind the obs car led marker boards.

I should add here that several of these boards can be shipped very inexpensively in a regular envelope marked “Non-machinable”. I have shipped them this way a couple of times.

Rod

Very interesting, May try  a board in the aluminum cars I am doing. It just keeps getting better.

In conjunction with the DIY passenger car lighting kits, I have been asked about possible kits for these observation car marker led boards. I have thus far been sending one bare board with every 6 lighting kits. But some folks seem to want the leds and resistors included for convenience. That's easy enough to include with a few lighting kits, but not so easy after the fact.

The assembly of a kit is easy enough, but since the average user would likely only need 2 or maybe 3 kits, how do we make it affordable to ship? There's not much sense in having 5 bucks worth of kits that cost 6 bucks to ship by bubble mailer.

I am experimenting to see if there is a way to get the kits into a format that will go into a standard letter envelope that can go non-machinable. This should keep shipping pretty reasonable.

More to follow on this shortly.

Rod

Rod, I was thinking about the cost of shipping versus the cost of kits earlier.  How do you make the envelopes non machinable?  Can you label them?

@Mark Boyce posted:

Rod, I was thinking about the cost of shipping versus the cost of kits earlier.  How do you make the envelopes non machinable?  Can you label them?

As I understand it, it can be thicker than a normal letter, up to about heavy cardboard thickness, but it can’t be lumpy or irregular. Then when you take it to the PO they stamp it non-machinable, and there is a small premium over regular $.60 mail of $.39, a total of $.99. Way less than $5 or $6 for bubble mailer package type mail.
That premium may vary, not sure.

Rod

Rod, that makes sense.  I hadn’t heard it before, but will keep it in mind.  👍🏻

For example here is a board with leds and resistors that I mailed to a gentleman recently. It went for $.99 non-machinable. I am looking at doing this with a few kits, just need to check with the PO and see if there is a weight or any other restriction that may prevent it.

Rod

@Rod Stewart,

I sent you a PM earlier.  If you still have the boards, I'd like a set.  PM me if you do this.

@texgeekboy posted:

@Rod Stewart,

I sent you a PM earlier.  If you still have the boards, I'd like a set.  PM me if you do this.

Thanks for your interest! Are you wanting bare boards, or kits complete with leds and resistors? If the latter, I am just ironing out a couple of things with regards to shipping. Might take a couple of days yet, I will put the information here whichever way it goes.

Rod

Just the bare boards.

@texgeekboy posted:

Just the bare boards.

Maybe shoot me an email offline with how many you need, and we’ll go from there.

Rod

According to the USPS, a non-machinable letter can't be more then .009" thick.  With that said, I've mailed a bunch of stuff with components thicker than that in a letter envelope and they've always gotten there.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

According to the USPS, a non-machinable letter can't be more then .009" thick.  With that said, I've mailed a bunch of stuff with components thicker than that in a letter envelope and they've always gotten there.

Good to know John. I have sent a couple of envelopes non-machinable recently with cardboard about 5/32" thick; (0.156"), and if it fits through the slot in the magic plastic template they have at the PO, it's good to go. So there is that.

Rod

The .09" is a published specification, obviously from both of our experiences, they don't stick all that closely to it.  I don't even have them non-machinable, I just stick a stamp on them and mail them.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I don't even have them non-machinable, I just stick a stamp on them and mail them.

Even better!

Rod,

Just got this added to the projects list. Take a look to see if anything needs fixing. That makes 22 projects so far!

@rtr12 posted:

Rod,

Just got this added to the projects list. Take a look to see if anything needs fixing. That makes 22 projects so far!

Looks good Tom. The costs might range more like $1.50 to $5.00, the latter being if using OP boards, which will cost about $4.35 for one, in lots of 3. Otherwise all is good!
Rod

Thanks, and prices are fixed now too.

@rtr12 posted:

Rod,

Just got this added to the projects list. Take a look to see if anything needs fixing. That makes 22 projects so far!

Only 22 projects on the list? 🤔 😉

UPDATE: Ready to go with a few kits for these boards, for those who prefer to have a kit with everything needed for assembly. As was said back a few posts:

"In conjunction with the DIY passenger car lighting kits, I have been asked about possible kits for these observation car marker led boards. I have thus far been sending one bare board with every 6 lighting kits. But some folks seem to want the leds and resistors included for convenience."

The assembly of a kit is easy enough, and the average user would likely only need 2 or maybe 3-4 kits. So we'll go with a 2 kit package and a 4 kit package. They will look like this for shipping:

The parts will come nestled in a space cut in cardboard, taped in flat so as to be mailable inexpensively. Each 2 board kit will include: boards, 6 x 3mm flat top white leds, 2 x 330 ohm and 2 x 220 ohm resistors, a length of 2 conductor 28 AWG ribbon cable suitable for hookup, and instructions. Once assembled each board should look something like this:

Installation of the board inside the observation car is covered in the Passenger Car LED Lighting Quick Tips pdf, attached again below for convenience.

Pricing will be $2 per kit, plus $1 for non-machinable mailing (no tracking or insurance). So a whopping 5 bucks will get you two kits mailed! What a deal! Paypal FF preferred, my email is in my profile.

Please note these kits are tailored to the DIY enthusiast. They are intended to fill the niche for the electrically capable hobbyist who enjoys electronics assembly, but does not want the complication and expense of ordering boards and small lots of the various components required to do the job. They are NOT intended to compete with any other commercially available ready-made products. The kits are easy to build but you do need basic tools and soldering skills.

Rod

@Mark Boyce posted:

Only 22 projects on the list? 🤔 😉

Well, there's at least one more to add and maybe another after that, if I can remember what it was?  I'm not sure anyone ever looks at that list anyway, but the longer it gets the more exciting it becomes to edit. 

If anyone else is interested in the observation car marker led kits I have a few left. Two shipped for $5. Kit includes everything needed to light the marker bezels for two observation cars.

Rod

Great. Just what I've been looking for Rod. I'd Like 12 kits. Are they still available?

@gmhurley2254 posted:

Great. Just what I've been looking for Rod. I'd Like 12 kits. Are they still available?

Yep I can do up 12 kits for you no problem. And you will be getting the new pcbs which have optional provision for trim pots for intensity adjustment!

Please shoot me an email for rhe details, my email is in my profile.

Rod

Attached is an updated set of Observation Car Marker LED Board notes, modified with recent user feedback, especially in the area of drumhead lighting. It is specific to board rev R1.2 which now ships with all new kits. The main difference between this board and R1.0b is the new board has provision to mount either a 3362P style trim pot, or only a fixed resistor. The trim pot of course allows adjusting the marker intensity to your liking. The pot pattern also allows the use of side adjust styles 3362S or 3306K. 500 ohm 3362P trim pots are optionally available with the kits.

Rod