March Meet analysis

Had a good trip to the US and renewed old acquaintances at the March Meet - sold or traded most of what I wished to move and bought some nice gear at the show. Can't wait to assemble the new Modern O scale kits and I hope that enough were sold to guarantee future projects coming to fruition. 

However at the risk of introducing some negativity to the thread I would like to take this opportunity to record my thoughts and ascertain how others feel without descending into rancour and taking into consideration the webmaster's posts concerning uninformed criticism.

For the past several years I have had a deposit with a well known importer and paid the second installment on the proposed model. I was assured, at various March Meet shows from 2015, that the model would be here - which I inferred would be in the US - by  the 'next year'. This I took to be 2016.

I was again related the same assurance that the model would be here the following year in 2016, i.e 2017. I did not attend the show in 2017, but the model was not delivered nor had construction begun.  

At the March Meet 2018 I was personally promised in a direct face to face conversation with the importer that the model would be here next year. (2019) 

This year, I flew to the US in eager anticipation of catching a glimpse of the sample model in which I have had $3000 dollars invested for some years now.

When the show opened I made my way to the importer's table to be yet again disappointed that the only tangible progress on this project was the locomotive's tender. This despite an assurance on the importer's website only a month ago that the completed sample model would be here fresh from Korea.  

I again had a direct conversation with the importer who stated that the models non appearance was due to the shipping company.  At my behest, he assured me that pictures of the completed sample model would be posted on his website this week. i.e. March 17-23 2019.

Living in the UK  I am interested in how this is perceived by US modellers. The situation has caused me some degree of frustration and I am eager to hear the experiences of others, both in the US and elsewhere. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Original Post

We have heard this story before.  It is usually very high end stuff.  Anybody can promise you anything, and take your deposit.  In the end, if they become insolvent, or lose interest, your only remedy is legal, and that usually costs more than you stand to lose.

My impression is that at least Key always delivers.  I have no idea about the other high end importers.

Hello all ....another great March Meet is in the books ....Saturday morning lots of the public filled the aisles ....lots and lots of O scale found new homes ....making many buyers and vendors very happy......many empty of near empty tables at show close ...I of course collect vintage to no pulse on new items ... happily found many new toys for the collection. I hosted an open house so folks could visit Raymondale and Donaldson ( both still very much a work in progress)  in there new time zone.   The March Meet is thee mecca for O scale ... fortunate to have it in my back yard .  A few photos from the meet  and few of the new toys.

Cheers Carey 

0316191004a_HDR0316191004_HDR0316190959a_HDR03161909590317191026a_HDR0317191745a0317191737~20316192310_HDR0316192310a_HDR 

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Carey Williams posted:

Cheers Carey 

0317191745a

Nice find, it is a Vane Jones ICC WB&A articulator kit, reasonably well assembled; those windows are/were a real bear to cut out from the PrestoPlast (all 70 of them!). I have one assembled and one and a half unassembled. The prototype were never painted in an orange scheme, they were delivered from J. G. Brill in forest green and remained that way until being scrapped. A poor photo of mine from the 2005 East Penn meet showing the unbuilt sides:

East Penn 2005-014F

Another view:

East Penn 2005-018F

These kits date from around 1948 or so. Mine has a Wagner truck with "48" stamped on it; somewhere I acquired another Wagner truck with '47" stamped on it. I once asked Rich what the numbers referred to, he told me but I never wrote down the answer and now do not remember anymore.

Later Gator,

  Dave

 

Here comes a Yankee with a blackened soul,
Heading to Gatow with a load of coal.
......Anonymous U. S. pilot during the Berlin Airlift

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Hey,  Eddie..the March Meet is specifically for O scale (two rail), but, as noted in some postings, some, a little, old, (and not so old)  three rail sneaks in.  It is now in Lombard, west Chicago, in March (surprise! ).  It was yesterday and Saturday.  It is advertised in O scale magazines, and you can Google "March Meet". All kinds of interesting, sometimes, ancient models of prototypes you won't find in an orange box show up.  This was an excellent show, one of the best lately, although l did not find specific items sought. If you have found, in your years in hunting trains, old O scale you'd like to trade for green paper, it is the best of too few places to spread it on a table.  While some in the three rail world can get annoyed at the same few roadnames/prototypes repeated ad infinitum, some in two (and three) rail need barf bags to attend "train" shows where nothing is found but HO and orange boxes. 

??Another one of THOSE!!??  What you want to sell is not what I want to buy!

Hello Dave...thank you for your kind words ...here is a kit with easy to follow directions ....dated 1947 ....do you have a ICC catalog that you could share via posting some photos please ?

 

Best of my knowledge the "March Meet" has been just called the March Meet...for some 30 + -  years ......it's like referring to the TCA Eastern division show YORK .... 

 

here is the show link ...of you are into O scale .....this is thee place to go in MARCH ...to attend the March Meet...   the show dwarfs all other O Scale shows ... 

 

http://www.marchmeet.net/

cheers Carey 

 

 

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bob2 posted:

We have heard this story before.  It is usually very high end stuff.  Anybody can promise you anything, and take your deposit.  In the end, if they become insolvent, or lose interest, your only remedy is legal, and that usually costs more than you stand to lose.

My impression is that at least Key always delivers.  I have no idea about the other high end importers.

 

Surprised there have been no comments on Lee Marsh being there with a pilot sample for his daylight GS 4 ,this model was only announced less than 2 years ago, just saying.

 

 

 

 

 

Carey Williams posted:

Hello Dave...thank you for your kind words ...here is a kit with easy to follow directions ....dated 1947 ....do you have a ICC catalog that you could share via posting some photos please ?

That "47" on the Wagner truck falls in line with that 1947 date. Unfortunately, I do not have an ICC catalog and do not remember ever seeing one either. I believe that ICC also produced at least two other models; an Interstate combine and an Interstate sleeper or coach. Somewhere I have the combine powered with a huge vertically mounted wound-field motor; typical for the time. The Hyattsville, MD address probably referred to a hobby shop run by Don Wertz.

Later Gator,

  Dave

 

Here comes a Yankee with a blackened soul,
Heading to Gatow with a load of coal.
......Anonymous U. S. pilot during the Berlin Airlift

What makes Lee Marsh stand out with his Southern Pacific Daylight project is that he invested his own money.  And the pilot model was produced within a year.  The model is very well executed as one can see on Lee Marsh's website.  At least if putting a deposit down with him, you know that the model has progressed with a delivery date soon to follow.  This is not just another Southern Pacific Daylight.  Erik of Midwestern Model Works also had a premier model of the SD40-2 with detail never done before.  Even the battery is in the battery box.  Erik fired his old builder because of delays and started his own company in Korea.  He now has some of the top builders working for him and I understand that the SD45 coming will be better than originally planned.  His goal is to keep a time schedule so that models will not be delayed months or years on end.  Another dealer that was at the show announced that he would have the locomotive at the show.  He told others that it was to arrive Friday or Saturday which is why he did not have the locomotive.  It is interesting that the tender was shipped without the locomotive.  You would think that they would be shipped together.  The tender was very well done.

George diSanti

North Carolina where the Tarheels rule!

Engineer-Joe posted:

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probably way above my pay grade so I won't even ask.....

Looks very nice from here though.

Better than "nice"! I met Lee some 3 years ago, and when I discovered he wants to produce the various versions of SP GS class locomotives, I told him I would assist him in any and every way I could. Having spent over 40 years on the crew of AFT/SP 4449, I pretty much know every square inch of the real locomotive. I must admit that I was truly blown away by Lee's pilot model and his attention to detail. Upon swinging open the smokebox front, he even has modeled ALL the internal components inside, that nobody ever sees anyway, except of course, those of us that work on her! Turning the tender and engine up-side-down, reveals EVERYTHING,,,,,,,just like the real locomotive

Speaking as a fellow Brit and satisfied client of Lee Marsh I have to say that he and Erik represent a renaissance of brass in the US. Very high standards of accuracy; great customer service; and above all else reliability. Lee has an incredible track record in the UK bringing in projects at a steady rate each year, always  in multiple versions for different periods and liveries. Reliability is crucial and Midwestern's decision to emulate Lee  and go with his own builder surely is the way ahead. Of course all difficulties are not resolved but it is a better approach. Kohs certainly builds fine models and George has a number of rolling stock projects that interest me. But the proof is in the reliability of delivery. Harking back to the first post if the business model requires hefty deposits from the customer then delivery times have to be met. I am just not wealthy enough to have funds tied up with importers for an indefinite period. I wish all of these importers well. George has some super offerings coming up. His publicity material is always top notch and the models I have had from him are excellent. Let's all hope for more goodies from all three gentlemen.

Jon

Sadly, the tender is a story repeated for decades with this importer. Since we are being clandestine to keep the thread open, I waited almost 7 years for my articulated model and the stories and excuses were as good as the model turned out to be. But, I swore off that importer or any who requires large deposits and interim payments. 

I like how Lee Marsh and Key Import does it. Small deposit up front and balance due upon completion. I got tired of my money financing a project.

 

BH

Hot Water posted:
SANTIAGOP23 posted:

I emailed Lee asking if he would build me a WP GS-64... No reply... Will ask again after seeing the pilot model...

He is probably traveling, i.e. returning home to the UK after the March Meet.

Lee just replied to my second email. Sadly, no plans for gs6 as they are very different. I appreciate the reply though. Great to see someone move that fast with a high end steam project. 

George diSanti posted:

What makes Lee Marsh stand out with his Southern Pacific Daylight project is that he invested his own money.  And the pilot model was produced within a year.  The model is very well executed as one can see on Lee Marsh's website.  At least if putting a deposit down with him, you know that the model has progressed with a delivery date soon to follow.  This is not just another Southern Pacific Daylight.  Erik of Midwestern Model Works also had a premier model of the SD40-2 with detail never done before.  Even the battery is in the battery box.  Erik fired his old builder because of delays and started his own company in Korea.  He now has some of the top builders working for him and I understand that the SD45 coming will be better than originally planned.  His goal is to keep a time schedule so that models will not be delayed months or years on end.  Another dealer that was at the show announced that he would have the locomotive at the show.  He told others that it was to arrive Friday or Saturday which is why he did not have the locomotive.  It is interesting that the tender was shipped without the locomotive.  You would think that they would be shipped together.  The tender was very well done.

George diSanti

North Carolina where the Tarheels rule!

For years I've carped against manufacturers who offer rare or uncommon versions instead of the locomotives and cars that move the freight. 

Wouldn't you know that Erik offers the most accurate and beautiful SDs ever created for the roads that ran them.

Thankfully for this steam era modeler's wallet he didn't offer the SD45 demo with the L shaped cab window nor the Reading dual control  which were the two shelf queens I wanted. 

 

Rob M. ARHS # 3846 PRRT&HS # 8141 EPTC "Life Is Like A Mountain Railway, With An Engineer That's Brave..."

The March Meet was a success for me on all accounts.  I sold some things that I no longer used which were then replaced with things that I can use (like a PRB ATSF stock car which are very hard to find) and came home with more money than I left with.  The Rockford O Scalers open houses went well.  As expected, the Saturday night open house was a small crowd but that just means it was more relaxing and easier to talk to the attendees.  Sunday's attendance started out slow but by 3:30 there were more than 30 people in the basement.  At 20 people, it starts to get crowded and hard to move around.  Hopefully it didn't bother too many people and they just decided it was more people to talk to.  For the most part, things ran pretty good.  One decoder may have overheated (after running for four hours) and shut down and there were a couple of other minor issues.  It was so much fun that we going to repeat it again tomorrow when a couple of people from Colorado are visiting before they head back home.

Had the opportunity to visit John's layout Saturday night and enjoyed it very much.  The roundhouse, turntable and fan tracks, filled with interesting steam power, was a delight.  Nice scenery, busy town, many Die Cast Direct vehicles, totally cool  full length passenger trains, like the F3 powered California Zephyr and E6 powered Illinois Central Panama Limited.  If you get a chance, do visit "Rockford O Scalers". Friendly group, too!

John - might you post some video footage of the layout, as a separate topic?

The only operating layout was an On30 approximately 4' x 6'.  Single loop with one passing track which doubled as a spur.  The excuse of 'I don't have enough room for a layout' doesn't hold water.  You may not have enough space to run an articulated with strings of hoppers and reefers, but there is certainly room for a free standing or wall mounted(fold up) or under-the-bed narrow gauge railroad.  Proper placement of buildings, trees and land contour would allow half the layout to be folded to the vertical or with two piano hinges folded over onto itself.  The layout was being readied for this year's narrow gauge meet.  Like most layouts, it resulted in smiles from all who saw it.  John in Lansing, ILL

mark s posted:

Oh, there was some scuttle butt that the Hill's might not continue hosting the March Meet. Anyone have additional reconnaissance? 

That's been kicked around for several years now.  One can only realistically expect that it will eventually come to fruition.


Isn't sanity really just a one trick pony, anyway? I mean, all you get is one trick, rational thinking!

But when you're good and crazy…ooh hoo hoo hoo…the sky's the limit!

 

 

 

Dear Forum Members,

A tremendous HOORAH!!! to Melissa Hill and her family/volunteers which makes this event happen.

A venue as large as this or as small as our Strasburg shows takes dedication to promoting our wonderful 2 Rail scale fraternity.

John P.Dunn Sr   Scale2Rail Promotions

Lead, Follow or Get the Hell out of the way!! - George S. Patton Jr.

Excellent coverage of an interesting meet. I am NOT an O scale modeler, but I always appreciate seeing O scale models.

An aside:

I do not understand the vitriol toward Eddy G. Some of those comments concerning him were below the belt. However, I was raised to respect my elders, and that means RESPECT them, and not insult or belittle them.

If you have a navel, and I highly suspect you do, then you're aging too. As we age, it would be great to do so with a little respect and understanding from those that are not facing the hassles of advancing age as yet.

IF those statements toward Eddy G were made in jest, it was in poor taste. IF not, then in my opinion, those making such snide comments need keep their crap to themselves and let those of us that CAN show respect, do so.

Andre

jdunn posted:

Dear Forum Members,

A tremendous HOORAH!!! to Melissa Hill and her family/volunteers which makes this event happen.

A venue as large as this or as small as our Strasburg shows takes dedication to promoting our wonderful 2 Rail scale fraternity.

John P.Dunn Sr   Scale2Rail Promotions

Lead, Follow or Get the Hell out of the way!! - George S. Patton Jr.

John, Well said.  The scope of the 2 rail scale fraternity was shown at The March Meet when several of the seasoned veterans helped two brothers who brought more than seven hundred kits to the show.  None asked for a special price, none expected a gift, they just jumped in and helped two novices set fair prices and decent groupings of items the sellers had no idea about.  John in Lansing, ILL

mwb posted:
mark s posted:

Oh, there was some scuttle butt that the Hill's might not continue hosting the March Meet. Anyone have additional reconnaissance? 

That's been kicked around for several years now.  One can only realistically expect that it will eventually come to fruition.

Jim Canter passed down the Indy Show, Mr. Hill passed The March Meet to Mike and Milissa.  If it becomes a burden, they may pass it.  I cannot remember the last event I attended which had such a large percentage of attendees smiling.  Vendors were smiling, buyers were smiling, volunteers were smiling.  John in Lansing, ILL

I want to add my 2 cents on the March Meet. I left S Scale and model railroading 20 years ago. Six months ago the RR bug bit when I saw some 2 rail O Scale locomotives. I was blown away. I modeled Great Northern and DM&IR. Try finding much stuff for those roads in S Scale. This was my first March meet and I cannot believe the quantity and quality of the models at this show. I also took a layout tour of Gary Engles GN layout-awesome. The Organizers are to be commended for putting on such a great show solely for 2 rail O scale. It is only two day since the show , but I am already planning on attending the 2020 March Meet.

Pete

I miss it as a source for archbar trucks, which have dried up, but this was a great show.  I found stuff!  I think the March Meet is a "fur piece" from Eddie, who travels by train!, but he might find stuff he can use, as l do.  I use any source that works...and l try not to be provincial, but sometimes fail.

??Another one of THOSE!!??  What you want to sell is not what I want to buy!

OK...I had to spend considerable time editing and deleting the personal posts about another member.  I have been warning you all about this so one last time....stop the crap.  Stay on topic and don't respond or pile on the personal attacks and attitude.  I will be emailing some of the worst offenders very soon....no need for this kind of non-sense!

Alan Arnold
CEO/Publisher
O Gauge Railroading magazine
adman@ogaugerr.com
800-980-OGRR (6477)

To laming..........what a gentleman you are!!!!   My comments to help Eddie would've been more acidic............as Eddie is just Eddie, his mild question was the same that I was about to ask.  And I am GLAD he did, since Lombard, Illinois,  isn't far from where I grew up,  and I have an elderly Aunt who lives in Addison

( yes Eddie she is SINGLE...lol) . So the location question what appropriate also to me............elderly loving Aunt Lorraine, free place to stay...although helping her chore-wise is involved ...NP.....and the Lombard meet is probably a hop n' skip away!

It's Eddie who as a Forum member  really livens up this Forum in a positive way...........

 

The March Meet:

Thank you Carrey, Dave, and Engineer-Joe for posting pics. 

Though I am in HO by virtue of my sets of "Givens n' Druthers", I so enjoy seeing O scale models. IMHO, O scale models have a "heft" that is unique among the scales. Also my opinion, but I feel O scale makes for better looking detailed models in detailed scenes for some reason rather than going larger. I don't know why I perceive it that way, unless it's the settings I typically see in a well done O scale layout compared to a well done larger scale layout. The O scale layout can typically not appear as cramped or as characterized via compression perhaps?

Oh, and I love seeing pictures of vintage O 2 rail, too. Some of those older models look very nice, even by today's standards.

I often check on the O scale 2 rail forum for promising threads!

RedJimmy:

Thank you for you kind words. In the upbringing in my home, respecting elders was taught. I was instructed by Mom and Dad both that elders were always referred to by "Mr. & Mrs" followed by their last name, and a reply to a question they may ask was to be followed with "Yes Sir" and "Yes Ma'm".  I struggle with today's kids and when I see some from their ranks display irreverent attitudes towards our elders. Seems to me, that as we enter the advanced aging phase, being treated with dignity and respect is one of the few things we have left as individuals. So ingrained was this teaching, that during my pastoral years when we had one of our church pot luck fellowship dinners, I would always insist that we allow our elders to go first in the line as a sign of respect, along with providing them the ability to not have to stand in line so long. This also had the side effect of teaching our church children that elders should be respected.

All fer now.

Andre

Hello Eddy G!

You have earned the right to be respected, because you're still kickin' life in the tail end!

I doubt I'll ever be in a location to meet you in person, but I highly suspect I would enjoy hearing some of your experiences in life, trains and otherwise. I have done so many times with many of the elders that I've been around over the decades. I used to enjoy visiting with my elders that were a part of the churches I pastored for the 25+ years I was pastoring. Wow, some of them had amazing life experiences, as I'm sure you have as well.

Take care and keep on kickin' life's rear!

Andre

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