Marklin Onion Dome in Paper Plated Tin

I hope the station will resemble something like this when I am done.

Picture courtesy of Bertoia.

George

My plan is to use these plastic pull string ends for telegraph insulators. I believe there are 14 on the station.

George

That'll be a really neat station George, Can't wait to see it!

Very cool George.  I’m sure it will look great. 

fantastic!

I really look forward to watching your progress!

George, for cutting tin accurately, look at "sheet metal nibblers" similar to a scissor type hole punch for paper. Jaw length, depth, and shapes vary. There are also pnumatic driven nibblers. (peak around at automotive body repair sheetmetal or metal shop tools)

A Whitney Punch for heavier stock (hand held large c-clamp/w scissor action handles, various interchangeable die& anvil in each kit, many available overall singley)

Old school, hammer and chisels work well. For a pre-rolled round tower like that, a hardwood dowel (stair rail?), brass/ aluminum rod, or black pipe anvil. (each is progressively harder on your chisel blades )

If can also make/buy dies for punching using bolt threads to draw the die/anvil together for a few "special" cuts, more if you tool harden your homemade dies.(heat, heat & hardening powders, etc)

I think these types of metal tools might be a good investments for you long term. I think you might be a spectacle maker with a shop/bench full.

I really like the majority of your structural style choices; nice work so far as well. Thanks for sharing this one.

...."If you'd like, you can"....  spellwreck removed a few words. (can't edit)

Thank you. Yes, I bought an Eastwood pneumatic nibbler. I still don't think I could cut 20 window mullions at that scale, but I'll see when I start cutting. I am going to try to cut the windows and then let the photo-paper be the mullion. I am going to rely on the power of the photographs for some magic to simplify the project. By the time I learned to be a master tin craftsman, I would have been better off buying the original!

I hope to make more progress this weekend. I'm going to repaint the onion dome in a lighter shade of gold. The bronze is too dark. I think I will make the tower out of brass. I have an extra sheet that should work nicely. I finally got the roof sized correctly, too.

George

Nice work, George! I'm following this one with great interest. I have a Klein hand nibbler which I've found useful.

Question: what do you use to seal the photopaper after you've printed off?

I use Krylon Preserve It Gloss fixit spray to seal the photos. I realized that the photos were too easily damaged by Crazy Glue on my fingers if I don’t seal the photos.

George

I made some progress today acquiring parts for the project. 

The corrugated canopy  top is from a very large can of baked beans. You may also notice the beads in the corner of the picture. Those are for ends on flag staffs.

I also bought a different color paint for the dome.

George

George, this looks like an ambitious project to which you are bringing tremendous creativity and skill.  I will enjoy following your progress. 

Tomlinson Run Railroad

A little more progress.

The photos have been printed and sealed. Here they are drying on the air hockey table.

I also made and painted the base and cut and painted the passageway canopy roof.

George

Here’s a mock-up if one of the flags.

This looks terrific! Inspiring work, George...

I’ve been pulled in other directions recently, but happy I logged on to see this. Very impressive and quite creative. 

Rough assembly of tin before painting.

I almost drilled a hole in my finger making holes for pop rivets. I never did that before.

I decided not to cut out the windows. It's way to tedious and prone to error. The windows in the photos will look just fine, but I won't be able to illuminate it from the inside.

George

I applaud your ambition, creative problem-solving, and skill.

Some questions/observations/suggestions/requests:

Re the mullions, I agree with not trying to cut the tin behind them.  Would it work to use heavier card or styrene to back up the paper mullions?

After you're done, would it be possible to share some details regarding tools and supplies that you found to be helpful (or not), along with links/sources?

Speaking as a glob-solderer who needs a LOT of practice, I'd like to see some inside views that show how you joined the pieces together.

Keep up the good work!

Mallard4468 posted:

I applaud your ambition, creative problem-solving, and skill.

Some questions/observations/suggestions/requests:

Re the mullions, I agree with not trying to cut the tin behind them.  Would it work to use heavier card or styrene to back up the paper mullions?

After you're done, would it be possible to share some details regarding tools and supplies that you found to be helpful (or not), along with links/sources?

Speaking as a glob-solderer who needs a LOT of practice, I'd like to see some inside views that show how you joined the pieces together.

Keep up the good work!

Thank you. Yes, I will share tools and supplies when I am finished. The issue with the windows are that there are so many and they require A lot of work and patience. The mullions would be impossible without a plasma cutter and then it would be virtually impossible to line up the photos with the tin. Even cutting the window frame out is difficult with such a small, tight curve at the top. I could have tried styrene or cardstock and cut the windows square. Also, the air nibbler is pretty aggressive and chews the tin on the curves. This is making me really appreciate the craftsmanship of Marklin. With the amount of time I am putting into this, paying $3500 for a station seems reasonable in retrospect, but this is fun for me. 

On soldering, I did solder the brass clock tower. However, I found it to be faster to pop rivet the rest of the pieces together. I'll take some pictures when the paint dries.  

I am having some trouble gluing the photo of the tower to the brass structure. The Super Glue is drying too fast and I can't get it aligned. I've ruined two photos so far. I am going to try Gorilla Contact Adhesive next for a slower set time.

George

George S posted:

I am having some trouble gluing the photo of the tower to the brass structure. The Super Glue is drying too fast and I can't get it aligned. I've ruined two photos so far. I am going to try Gorilla Contact Adhesive next for a slower set time.

Just a couple of thoughts, in case you haven't tried them... thick CA (more open time), move the parts into place, then hit it with accelerator, or adhesive caulk - haven't tried it on metal, but it seems to hold very well on hard plastic.

(Edit:  I misinterpreted the problem - thought it was for metal to metal adhesion.  Disregard for applying paper.  Sorry)

Any chance Elmers would work? very slow setting so you could have time to get things where you wanted them....

Try spray adhesive the kind (Michael's, Hobby Lobby) they use to affix posters to posterboard. Sets real fast and is permanent. You have to do a few dry runs before you use it or you end up with bubbles in the paper. There is also the issue of overspray. Google a few youtube videos on poster framing, ( every body has their own technique).

My best suggestion :

If you are not going to subject the model to lots of moisture ( southern climate) . Try wallpaper paste , stays  tacky long enough to move and set up and drys rock hard.

Mallard4468 posted:

George S posted:

I am having some trouble gluing the photo of the tower to the brass structure. The Super Glue is drying too fast and I can't get it aligned. I've ruined two photos so far. I am going to try Gorilla Contact Adhesive next for a slower set time.

Just a couple of thoughts, in case you haven't tried them... thick CA (more open time), move the parts into place, then hit it with accelerator, or adhesive caulk - haven't tried it on metal, but it seems to hold very well on hard plastic.

(Edit:  I misinterpreted the problem - thought it was for metal to metal adhesion.  Disregard for applying paper.  Sorry)

I came across the thick CA as an option doing an internet search. I think it is called "403". I don't have any but may try that. I'm going to test the contact adhesive first. I used it before on attaching plastic to metal and it worked fine.

George

Here is some progress and a picture of the inside of the tin with a view of the pop rivets. These tend to stick out more than some I have seen.

George

George S posted:

Here is some progress and a picture of the inside of the tin with a view of the pop rivets. These tend to stick out more than some I have seen.

George

Great progress George!

If it helps, I used to have a tinplate countersink tool made from a small screw clamp. The clamping pad on the screw section was removed leaving just the ball, and the base of the clamp had a shallow depression drilled in it creating a pocket for the ball. 

Drilling a smaller hole first, then re-drilling after you squeeze the spot with the clamp will help a little with distortion. End result; a countersunk hole for a pop rivet, even a countersunk pop rivet if you can find them. The high spot goes to the inside, out of sight. Trial and error should work its charm.

George,I think it looks great and even though it hasn’t been easy per say, you are learning some tricks and techniques that I’m sure may serve well in future efforts. Great work

Meant to show this one too. This is the side where the rivet protrudes more.

George

Lots of progress today, before and after Easter brunch.

Still lots to do including doors, roof lattice, telegraph poles and pedestrian railing.

George

Looks real nice George! .....can’t even tell it’s scratch built....looks just like a Marklin piece!....love it!...........Pat

Here’s the ticket window. I should have used a finer point Sharpie... or a paint brush.

A steadier hand wouldn’t hurt either.

George

Straight edge it. Blot tips first and/ or create a raised inking ledge with tape under the ruler's edge. (like the slight above-paper-gap you saw with the metal strip on wooden school rulers. You need one of those old 3" Trix cereal kiddie rulers with the scalloped edge, quarter round end, and shapes templete  

Can you manage a continuation of the sandstone brick on those walls with a second overlay? Even re-do the ticket window ...or simply work in an arched hole to keep it.  If the wall were "busier"; with stone graphics and/or ticket sign or other ornate detail; things like that fade as imperfections; becoming character and style instead

On the Bertoia, at the eves on each end are two hooks; there for a roof rest while lighting a candle/lamp maybe?

Was there more to be added to this station?

It is looking awsome.

I kept thinking there was something that might be able to recreate the tower venting easily someday.... I'd seen it often, but couldn't place it until now...

  Glass air compressor traps/ filters and heat guard/ draft tubes on old torch/lamp heads, etc. often use a perforated tube about that size.

Junk table at the fleamarket stuff, Grainger, etc. Aluminum or tool brass, the latter more likely if old.

...someday;..maybe;....awsome fun already :)

Adriatic posted:

 

Straight edge it. Blot tips first and/ or create a raised inking ledge with tape under the ruler's edge. (like the slight above-paper-gap you saw with the metal strip on wooden school rulers. You need one of those old 3" Trix cereal kiddie rulers with the scalloped edge, quarter round end, and shapes templete  

Can you manage a continuation of the sandstone brick on those walls with a second overlay? Even re-do the ticket window ...or simply work in an arched hole to keep it.  If the wall were "busier"; with stone graphics and/or ticket sign or other ornate detail; things like that fade as imperfections; becoming character and style instead

On the Bertoia, at the eves on each end are two hooks; there for a roof rest while lighting a candle/lamp maybe?

Was there more to be added to this station?

It is looking awsome.

I kept thinking there was something that might be able to recreate the tower venting easily someday.... I'd seen it often, but couldn't place it until now...

  Glass air compressor traps/ filters and heat guard/ draft tubes on old torch/lamp heads, etc. often use a perforated tube about that size.

Junk table at the fleamarket stuff, Grainger, etc. Aluminum or tool brass, the latter more likely if old.

...someday;..maybe;....awsome fun already :)

You are right Adriatic. I should have used a straight edge and stencil. I tried to freehand it. I needed to get it done before assembly or it would have been too difficult to do inside the passageway. I think it looks OK. You're right that perfection isn't required. 

I omitted the hooks on the eves. Those are for optional station canopies. See this picture for an example.

For the roof venting, I found some perforated tin at Ace Hardware. I'll post a picture later. I think it will work. While these roofs are vented like many German stations to allow candle lighting, I'm not sure if these were made for that. I saw one picture with a table and chairs in the Waiting Room. I think the venting, besides hiding the opening, looks like a Victorian era widows walk. Plus, there would need to be access to service the telegraph towers and fencing would protect the workers. Just guessing here...

My next quest is to find posts for the fence in front. The railing can just be brass rod. I searched doll house miniatures, but the scale was way too large. They may need to be wood.

George

Those flags make your's more festive. I fell asleep last night imagining an Easter Parade spilling out of the archway 

I like canopies, but think the size of those detract from the building a bit. 

Standard gauge handrail stantions and wire & cheap black wallmart jewelry chain ? (or model ship stantions?) I'm thinking the pre-made horizontal stantion holes would be worth it for skipping the driling into small roundstock; wood or metal usually drilling roundstock sides are a pita.

You are right again. I just drilled a brass threaded ball to make the internal railing. I think I will need six of them. Getting a bite on the drill tip is a pita. I used my vice to crush the side a little first. That made it easier. With wood, you can punch the drill spot first to create a seat for the bit. 

Thanks for your comments!

George

A sharp prick punch and a good whack for a deep start point is a must against tip walking on roundstock. "Double cut/back cut tips" have a second angle just at the tip to start faster and aid  against walking. Drill Doctor sharpeners have the back cut ability to mod one if you can access one or have one.

A little progress today. My perforated tin sheet did not work for the roof venting. The perforations were too large. Here is what I came up with. The perforated area is from a bicycle basket. I created a trim piece from brass and soldered the corner. I need to create a top trim piece then paint it. I also need to figure out a way to secure it to the roof so it can support the telegraph mast. I am leaning toward epoxy. 

Here is how I am creating the fencing for the front of the station. The posts are brass finials for lamps. I cut them down a little. These will need to be painted as well.

I tried making the doors and tried to solder a brass rod to a piece of tin. That did not work. I may make the doors out of brass instead. It is easy to solder brass to brass. 

George

great effort!

Hung a door and made the roof venting.

Looks great George!

Telegraph masts are complete.

George

This side is mostly finished. Just needs two telegraph insulators below the roof line and a door knob. I am using resistors painted brown for the door knobs.

Here is the railing inside the passageway in front of the ticket counter.

I still have two doors to make for the other side. Here is how I make the doors. I am using brass for this because it is easier to solder the hinge to it. I had trouble soldering the tin. Maybe it would work with tin if I had a tin hinge? 

I am going to put the passenger fence/track barrier on the opposite side. The original had the fence on both sides, but I will be having tracks on only one side and it will be along the back. I have seen many examples with the fence missing altogether. 

The final work will be doing some paint touch-ups on the inside. Spray my rattle can colors into a small plastic cup and brush the touchups by hand.

Hope everyone is enjoying the journey. I appreciate the kind words and suggestions!

George

I'm betting the "tin" wasn't a pure enough metal and/or wasn't clean enough. Pre- fluxed?  

Tin is part of many solder alloys (%) and solder should stick easy to it.

FYI, this has inspired something here also George.

  What exactly, I'm not sure yet. I don't usually plan so much as I "just build". (The salt container may or may not be a mold for pebble & cement (or plaster) tower. Same with creamer containers and couch legs.

   Anyhow a few days ago I spotted this finial on a hutch being tossed out, and thought of this thread. I dismissed using it at first until I noticed the flat on it's backside and saw "a clocktower".

 So I twisted it out to take it home. I cracked open my smallest dead watch (cheap batt. op Coleman) for the face & hands, broke out the Forstner bits and drilled a hole, following with some Old English dark polish on the fresh wood. (dry, thirsty old wood. It was really eager to drink the oils up.)

  A smaller diameter womens watch would have fit the bill better. I might have even been able to re-use the crystal or grind the strap bosses off the body to retain some trim.

  No building yet, but last night after looking at a figure for a photo shot, I also made a rustic arched door out of popsicle sticks & 2-staples; one for handle, the other for the latch's thumb button. I likely do another door and darken this one more tonight.

  I think you can manage some fairly ornate handle shapes from heavy duty staples. Longer ones would be way easier to work with too; just clip the "handle" when done.

  I really like wood and so may not paint over it, even though it's not "ideal' being woodgrained. I'm thinking maybe I'm going to try some traditional gilding here to offset the look with some metal. Gold ball, roof, base?..Only maybe. A visor lip over the clock, painted or actual, might be enough though. I might wack the ball off and "sharpen" it too.

  I've only done gilding a few times as an adult, and it really wasn't done "traditionally"; like it was when I was a kid with my Grandfather (His father did it professionally. 

Outstanding, George! A very nice display of ingenuity.

Adriatic, that’s very neat! I read about some Marklin stations that many had working clocks in them with clockwork mechanisms that still function today. It will be fun to see how you finish this.

George

 I'm guilty of "short attention span theater" on projects. E.g. I shelved a GG-1 I cut in half for the GG-½ ice blower for three or four years, then finished it as fast as drying glue and paint allowed. Real cars would also sit rusting for years, then be finished enough for shows in 1-2 months...etc.etc..

  So no telling when it will get done. I'll shelve a project for years sometimes before coming back to it; waiting for "the answer" to make itself known...or until I get tired enough of waiting and just "settle". My saving grace is I do get back to them for the most part.

 I won't likely forget my inspiration either though; so you'll be first to know it's done... if I don't end up posting the whole build along the way ...and thanks for doing that by the way.

The station is largely complete. It just needs three door knobs, but my resistors are in a box in storage. Here are some pics.

George

Incredible, George.  And, it's nice to see somone make such consistent and steady progress.  It's definitely time to step back and be proud of your accomplishment.

The colors, shape, and so much about that station really "pop".  I'm curious, 'though, on how you created the door hinges.  Are they just metal loops that hold the ends of the soldered wire pins in place (per your prior photo)?

Tomlinson Run Railroad

(The inside railings are great, too.)

TomlinsonRunRR posted:

Incredible, George.  And, it's nice to see somone make such consistent and steady progress.  It's definitely time to step back and be proud of your accomplishment.

The colors, shape, and so much about that station really "pop".  I'm curious, 'though, on how you created the door hinges.  Are they just metal loops that hold the ends of the soldered wire pins in place (per your prior photo)?

Tomlinson Run Railroad

(The inside railings are great, too.)

The door hinges were a challenge. They are modeled more after a Lionel reefer than a Marklin station. I never saw a real Marklin station to figure out how they made theirs and my doors are bigger than the opening, unlike Marklin. This was my “artistic license”.

So, I first tried a tube that captured the end of the pin, but I couldn’t cut it and bend it to attach to the wall without deforming the tube substantially. I then used the “keep it simple - KISS” approach. I cut a small strip of brass and folded it like a ‘U’ shape. I pressed it around the hinge pin with my needle nose pliers. This was inserted through the wall and fanned out on the opposite side. 

Cutting a hole in the side of the tin was also a problem. I drilled two small holes next to each other for each hinge. I then used the drill to join the holes. I could not use the Dremel for this, since the slot was so small, and I could not use a punch, because I waited until the building was assembled. Last problem was my hinges were too big for the hinge openings. The Dremel cutoff wheel cut the brass like butter. I held the small hinge with my needle nose pliers and shaved off a 1/32 inch of the hinge flange.

I’m happy you noticed and glad I found a solution.

George

George, that is pretty impressive I have to say!!  I can't remember if you ended up moving or not, but either way, you will be itching to get that station down on a layout!!  I'd really like to build a tinplate turntable like the early Marklin or Bing or one of the other accessories as well. It would be an interesting project to make a big turntable like this one in tinplate.  I can see the need to visit my buddy with the bead roller!

Dennis you could start with the lazy susan piece I used

One of the two rail scale guys made one out of an 18" kitchen pan....I do apologize, as he is a member of this forum and of course these are his pictures, but you get the idea.

Is that a cabinet Susan or one for a chair?

not sure. My late Uncle Jim had bought a back hoe (project of course) and I went up one day, and he had the seat apart. The swivel mechanism was shot, and he had found an excact replacement at Home Depot. I took one look at it and said that would make a neat turntable. Next time I was there he had picked one up for me.IIRC it was around $25. 

George,

Thanks for the description of your door hinge solution.  I like that your doors are a little larger.  It looks good and  probably helps with opening them, too.  Your use of "tabs" for securing the brass hinge fits the period and is simplicity itself (KISS).  Thanks again.

Tomlinson Run Railroad

Dennis Holler posted:

George, that is pretty impressive I have to say!!  I can't remember if you ended up moving or not, but either way, you will be itching to get that station down on a layout!!  I'd really like to build a tinplate turntable like the early Marklin or Bing or one of the other accessories as well. It would be an interesting project to make a big turntable like this one in tinplate.  I can see the need to visit my buddy with the bead roller!

I found a spur 1 version of the Marklin turntable in the UK for about £49. At that price you would be better off buying one. However, I didn't find a spur o one yet.

George

I have 6 of the onion dome finials left over. I wonder what else I could make? 

George

That is a very impressive piece of work George - Well Done!

Dennis Holler posted:

George, that is pretty impressive I have to say!!  I can't remember if you ended up moving or not, but either way, you will be itching to get that station down on a layout!! 

Hi Dennis,

We never moved. The house didn't sell. I moved my layout to my parents while the house was for sale. Now, I need to move it back. I'm prepping the basement for a proper layout. We had a power outage last year and the sump pit backed up and flooded, just a few inches. I am installing a generator to prevent that in the future. I'm also considering putting foam insulation on the concrete walls to warm it up a little down there. I don't want to go to the expense of fully finishing it. Anyway, I am anxious to get it built so I can put all the items I have collected and made over the last few years on display.

George

George, I am always impressed by your resourcefulness and creativity. I just surfed over here from a current photo thread. Your station is truly a work of art.

I do have a philosophical question, though. I know you are using tin because the original was metal. But I can see it is hard to work with and keep flat. Since you are covering it with photos anyway, what about making the building from wood or masonite? The look would be the same and it seems it would be a little easier. I would myself probably prefer that. But then I am a woodworker by trade.

I forget what you said you seal it with? Krylon makes a UV protective spray. Photos will fade over time.

Anyway, I might steal your idea of the photographic lithography one of these days.

@Will posted:

George, I am always impressed by your resourcefulness and creativity. I just surfed over here from a current photo thread. Your station is truly a work of art.

I do have a philosophical question, though. I know you are using tin because the original was metal. But I can see it is hard to work with and keep flat. Since you are covering it with photos anyway, what about making the building from wood or masonite? The look would be the same and it seems it would be a little easier. I would myself probably prefer that. But then I am a woodworker by trade.

I forget what you said you seal it with? Krylon makes a UV protective spray. Photos will fade over time.

Anyway, I might steal your idea of the photographic lithography one of these days.

Hi Will,

Thank you.

I am using Kylon Preserve-it Photo spray to seal the photos. I would think Masonite would work. For the onion dome, I wanted a thin material and I wanted it to be close to the original style. The inside of the onion dome is painted. If you choose Masonite, I would use a different glue. I recently used Best-Test Paper Cement. I think that would be a superior option on Masonite. 

George