Mass Transit Modelers Meet 2017 - serious news !!

Thought about attending for years but this year my wife and I will be there. The location is just around the corner from the Empire dinner where out Corvair club meets. Hope the interest can continue.

No effort whatsoever has been made to advertise this event properly. There are a dozen senior centers with a rock's throw of the event and not one has been sent an invite. AND $20 is too much. In addition no effort has been made to contact hundreds high schools, whose students have not yet mastered the Vulcan mind-meld. Of course e-mails are tremendously expensive these days, so that could acount for the problem.

Hello Tommy

Your points are well taken and understood.

However, this MEET has been advertised / announced in both OGR Forum HERE -  at Model Train Journal  -  at O Gauge Hobbyist -in  O Scale Trains -   and on an internet based Trolley Magazine - at the Branford Shoreline Trolley Museum - at  East Penn Traction Club newsletters AND on its webpage list of upcoming events - and on the NYC Model Transit Assn. 2 websites;  As well as advertised on the "O Scale Trolley Modelers Group"  and "NYC Transit Modelers Group"  and "Commuter Modeler" forum boards

as well as on the WEBSITE for the NYC Model Transit Assn. - link here;    http://www.nycmodeltransit.org/index.html 

ALSO on the NYC Model Transit Assn.  FACEBOOK PAGE  link here:   https://www.facebook.com/nycmodeltransit

Its many show-meet event VIDEOS are easily found on YOU TUBE -- as well as on the websites above

MOST of the traction-transit modeling and related regulars are quite well aware of, and have attended at times,  these annual meets for the past 20 or so years this event has been held.

We DO NEED younger active hands-on MODELERS of transit and traction -- or present rail hobbyists who may be interested in this side of the modeling hobby (transit-traction) to populate these meets to continue them onward. 

Problem is,  the many decades  long active (like myself) transit-traction MODELERS,  and the sales VENDORS,  EXHIBITORS, PARTICIPANTS , are all getting older or in advances ages at this time.  And thus the lack of turnout as time moves forward.

And the lack any large volume of quite much younger and similarly minded active rapid transit-traction-trolley modelers and hobbyists following us to continue on the hobby -- as is quite visibly OBVIOUS at many traction shows -- as well as the major lack of same to be found regularly and actively posting THEIR Subway, Elevated, Trolley, Transit, Traction MODELING material, projects, endeavors, scratchbuilding works,  their subway-El-trolley layouts, etc., on the various internet forum boards.

Regards - Joe F

I'm not trying to be sarcastic, but I attend at six differerent senior centers, EACH with an enrollment of over 350 seniors who sponsor weekly well-attended bus trips to the most obscure and meaningless destinations. I have been hospitalized and in no position to promote the event with these organizations. You need an e-mail attachment and a more reasonable price - they will not pay $20. They would pay $10.  to be sent to the social directors at these centers. Same with the high schools.☺

Tommy posted:

You need an e-mail attachment and a more reasonable price - they will not pay $20. They would pay $10.  to be sent to the social directors at these centers. Same with the high schools.☺

The price is just fine.  I doubt this meet is held for the enjoyment of the elderly or for high school kids, it's for the serious mass transit modeler.  If I lived closer I'd attend, and have no problem paying the $20.

The event is held to raise money for a trolley museum and to promote the transit segment of the hobby. For the last of the "serious modelers"? Hardly.  Not for foamers only.  The MORE in attendence the better. That will ensure continued funding for the show the trolley museum and the introduction of new people and new blood to the hobby. People who did not know there was such a hobby as transit modeling. I brought an example of a subway set to one senior center resulting in the purchase of eight MTH sets by different seniors who had not touched a model train in 50 years. In the universe of senior centers and high school students attending for the first time the $20 plus charter bus fare is unacceptable. Do not pass go. Do not collect $200. For me $20 is not an issue. I am talking basic promotion of an event.

Tommy

The show, which I am one of the Association co founders of, back in 1981,  was designed SOLELY and ONLY for Modelers of Streetcars, Transit, Rapid Transit, commuter rail modeling, specializing on ELECTRIC propulsion. 

Not for idle brower-observers and people as such only interested in a one time "fun day" outing at the show.  The profits were designed to go to Branford Museum.   With the facilities rented -- we have space for the vendors tables,  multi operating exhibits and the remaining smaller space (usually long aisles between vendor tables and operating exhibits - and corner niches) is designed for active and heavily interested HOBBY CUSTOMERS who will support and purchase items, products, from the VENDORS --- vendors who are charged for their entry AND for their tables to display and SELL their products.  Many of the vendors sell SPECIALIZED products designed for MODELERS in the hobby -- parts, supplies, paints, various materials, custom (epoxy resin castings) carbodies, etc.  Non modelers / non hobbyists (the curious general visitors)  are welcome but not the focus of such Meets.

The "browsing" day tripper public attendees would not be interested nor purchase such items.   The NYCMTA  meets are specifically designed to attract active MODELERS and HOBBYISTS in our niche field...and cultivate, encourage and motivate serious new modelers.  And educate them with the many "how to" modeling clinics held at most shows.  I even gave one of those clinics.  Our shows thus do NOT generally permit vendors of Doll Houses, Tin Plate Trains, steam and diesel and related mainline railroad models,  model planes and helicopters, sellers of games and crafts, etc. 

Strictly Rapid Transit, Traction (Streetcar and Interurbans and ELECTRIC Locomotives and MU trains and trolley freight) and products related to same and related to creating and operating layouts featuring same.

These shows did VERY WELL in participation and attendance over the past 15 or so years  -- but have slowed down gradually as such over the past 5 years and that has nothing to do with any "marketing" issues as you profess !

Your previous post above states people, seniors  will NOT (can not??!)  pay $20.00 admission (ie: for a two day show admission Friday & Saturday,  or some on Saturday & Sunday) -- but you state that 8 seniors at a senior-center purchased EIGHT MTH Subway sets costing , ie: 4 car sets @ $450.00 or more ???   What about the needed extras - the track and power packs to OPERATE these trains.  They forgot about those important ACCESSORIES ?  !!

And remember,  there IS a reason why the model railroad Hobby Stores, and general merchandise Hobby Stores in general,  have been closing across the USA in significant numbers over the past 10 to 12 years.  Even the long running and  famed "Toys R US"  toy store national chain is now about to close in Bankruptcy.  And the great W. K. WALTHERS distributor has less and less product lines over the past few years.  After my just over 55 years of heavy involvement in the model rail and traction-rail hobby,  I have a very good feel for what and where the state of the hobby business is today,  compared to 20, 30, 40 , 50 years ago when  it was thriving !

Regards - Joe F

joe f-

While you are right about declining participation in hobbies (though to be honest hobbies seem to have been facing declines for years, O gauge trains, specifically three rail, were on life support from the 60's on until roughly the 90, and scale modeling had ups and downs from competition, and almost all of them share to a certain extent in 'graying'.....) that doesn't mean there isn't anything that can't be done about it, and what I offer is simply some suggestions that might help keep the transit modelling show going. For example, while your vendors are obviously targeted at serious modelers and such, finding ways to attract those who are curious could help overall. If a browser is willing to pay 20 bucks to get in, that is 20 bucks you wouldn't have before, when you have a show like that vendor fees only pay a certain percent of the cost, and while they may not be likely to buy something from the vendors, they still are providing revenue. Not to mention that among those browsers and gawkers, some might get the bug, or find something to buy, even if they don't model transit, if someone goes there and sees a hobby knife or a set of paints they think could work for something else, they may buy it. If someone is selling a graffitti painted HO gauge subway set, someone might buy it for the nostalgia aspect (not my thing).  If vendors had books on transit, or videos (again, being a bystander who hasn't gone to the shows, I don't know if they do or don't), they might get someone who is into transit who buys stuff, even though they don't model.  

One of the other reasons to possibly get non modellers there is simply floor traffic, it might get some angry because they don't like crowding or gawkers, but having floor traffic also kind of helps increase interest, if people hear 50 people went they might think "geez must be dead", if they hear 100 or 200 went, they think like 'hey, might be worth checking out".  

I understand the reluctance towards letting 'outsiders' in, but kind of like the discussions about York being open to non TCA members (or the changes in how someone can become a TCA member, where to become a member you had to have existing members vouch for you, and many were upset when they changed this requirement), it often is driven by the need to refresh the base so to speak. Maybe making the show still focused on transit modelling, but also with a broader focus on transit enthusiasm or curiousity, might help build up the modelling side. Comic book conventions are sort of an analogy, when comic cons started out there were a small, dedicated group of enthusiasts getting together, today Comic Cons are huge because they broadened their base (and the old time types in that world grumble about it from what I hear, too.  The problem is when you have a small, tight knit community like this show was about, the tendency over time is for it to drift off as people move, people get out of the hobby, or sadly pass on, and perhaps the answer is widening it a bit . 

Hello Big Kid !

Thanks for your very good thoughtful and informative comments --- you have a lot of constructive ideas (as did Tommy also) !   PS: Heh, I agree with you re: your comments about York Shows !

The NYCMTA Assn. never sought to exclude any non modelers, public browsers, or just curious public.  They would welcome them. The costs to advertise in public oriented print or other paid media to attract them would most likely be a further and prohibitive series of costs.

When I exhibited my O-Scale NYC EL & Trolley layout at the Greenberg Show,   and also Great American Train Shows, 30 to  24 years ago,  the majority of the attendees crowding around that huge layout were the usual Greenberg Show "day trip attendees" -- ordinary people - many who brought their children along for an "outing" fun day.  These attendees were the ones who were the most animated and amazed, inquisitive and just very interested in that layout -- a kind of layout which they never saw before.  These were the most enjoyable observers and viewers that I well remember !.  My conversations with  most of them revealed that they had no actual railroading modeling interests - or if so it was only  when they were children ( a, heh, Lionel train set on the floor) -- which they outgrew it in teen and adulthood years and moved on in life and to varied other interests, and family matters, interests, involvements.  And SPORTS !

But Bruce Greenberg's Show,  and his competing   GATS Show producers,  reaped the income from those entry ticket sales.  About 150,000 attendees average each day over the usually 3 day shows (Friday, Saturday, Sunday).  But remember, that was back between 1986 and 1992 when my layout was on display at many of the shows...24 to 30  years ago !

Point being,  the required minimum and maximum "affordable" space   vs:  pre-attendee ticket sales and vendor table sales (paid in advance)  for the estimated optimum square footage required for many operating layouts and exhibits, displays - vendor tables,  and room for aisles and walkways thru and around them all... determines what and where the MEET can afford to rent space.  And in current times,  LARGE rooms, exhibit and convention halls, are far way out of the limited budget for them (even during those years of the highest attendance to the MEETS).  And even the smaller venue-rooms have now raised up their rental prices markedly.

Look at this and the other Subway-Transit-Traction Trolley modeling forum boards catering to transit and traction modeling !!  Postings related to actual modeling, modeling projects,  layouts, hands-on scratchbuilding and kitbashing, etc., have dwindled gradually to nearly nothing for the past many years !!

Go back thru the decades and see (or remember,  if you were there back then) how MUCH message-posting of transit,   traction related modeling activity was going on even up to 5,  6  years and longer ago , especially 15 years ago in the now long gone FIRST-ORIGINAL internet Transit-Traction Modeling forum called  "Model Sub Talk" , hosted by the now deceased transit model modeler Pat Viillani - hosted by Pat on line from about 1997 until about,  I think,  2008, a few years before his death.  An average one hundred or more posts, messages, etc., a day !

Other than myself,  Joe P,   Steve SIRT,  and Terry CTA FAN here at OGR "subways" regularly posting our layouts and modeling work,  projects,  and perhaps those of a scant few others here I may have missed,  WHERE IS the rest of it  ?   What is happening on the specific forums I listed further above in my earlier message, that being,  a BIG DROP over the past 5 or so years in posted transit, traction trolley MODELING activity and participation, modeling photos, etc.,  IS parallel to what is happening to the MEETS !

The famed Boston area  Roslindale  Mass.  Traction Club Group held similar annual meets in the Boston region for decades -- and cancelled any further meets a year or so ago due to largely diminished attendance.  And hardly any new younger attendees nor new club member applicants.

Perhaps Steve Olsen will stop in here and give his thoughts and added comments and input -- Steve having actually run the MEETS with Nate Gerstein and Bill Wall.

regards - Joe F

The amount of people interested in transit related items has dropped drastically  I see it at our club  We once had about 15 members that were strictly subway and mass transit   Never had an interest in the rest of the club  There are now 3 ( Myself included )  Steve SIRT adorned one of the subway walls in the club layout with a number of names that were very active on the forums   I look at those names now and its just me and Steve that are still around.  

I'm not trying to get anyone mad or take away from the enormous effort put into setting up this show. I am suggesting this may be the last stand at the o.k. corral if the enthusiast base is not expanded. And for the first time in history this can be accomplished inexpensively with targeted e-mail. Except for medical issues, hopefully temporary, I would volunteer. For starters, an e-mail to senior centers, of which there are hundreds. Secondly e-mails to high-schools. There are other potential visitors. Newspaper employees come and go. Time to re-contact them. There must be some ogr readers out there who are retired who have professional promotion experience? Not that anyone has been doing anything wrong. It's just that two heads are better than one and in my opinion the more people that attend, the better. Seniors have money, but the first-time interest has to be kindled, just as stores give away free samples, so people will come back. I wrote to Mike Wolf in the past , who had neither the manners nor the interest to bother with a reply. Modeling in general has disappeared from the culture of youth. I'm not sure how to re-kindle such interests. And most kids have never seen a trolley. The wonderful examples provided by transit modeling exhibits provide inspiration to new generations of potential modelers. And this may be the last chance to re-kindle the fire.

Gee, I feel like I am reading a thread about the TCA/ED York Train show.

All I know is that the frequency of local train shows has dropped in my area, as have the number of attendees when they are held. Last year I was doing some thinning at very low prices, so I sold lots of stuff. This year I am not as motivated to sell, so my prices will not be as low. I don't have high expectations.

I have always liked subways and trolleys. And I have fond memories of visiting the Branford Trolley Museum. I'd go to the show if I lived closer.

@joe f:
I hear what you are saying, and with a niche kind of thing like transit modelling it is magnified, when it was not huge to begin with it is very easy for it to whither away. And you could be correct, it could be simply that the interest in transit modelling has waned, maybe those interested in it have moved away or stopped modelling for whatever reasons, and that is reflected in the show's attendance. I think the real answer is to get new blood in the hobby and that isn't about sending flyers to high schools and the like, that would require those in the hobby to have a broader presence, the same way that has been suggested with trains in general, with clubs facing declining membership, graying out, and so forth. Kind of becomes a chicken and the egg, though, to get new members to rebuild you need enough people willing to do the outreach, but you won't have enough to do outreach without new members......with transit modelling, it may take having things like transit modular layouts that can be set up at train shows of all sorts, rather than expanding the transit modelling meet, though I honest think that when faced with a situation where you feel something may end, it is worth exploring all kinds of things.  

It could also be that with this meet it may end up being one of those things where if it does go on hiatus, suddenly people who for various reasons haven't been going suddenly realize it is gone, have seen that happen, too. 

 as well as the major lack of same to be found regularly and actively posting THEIR Subway, Elevated, Trolley, Transit, Traction MODELING material, projects, endeavors, scratchbuilding works,  their subway-El-trolley layouts, etc., on the various internet forum boards.

I'm a fairly prolific traction/trolley modeler, and while I do not post all that much on the various forum boards any more, I do write articles and maintain a column in every issue of OST that seemingly is well received, or at least that's what I am told,  

My lack of posting is linked to 2 criteria - (1) if it's for publication, it doesn't go on the internet forums; and (2) the amount of feedback or interest in what I post is at best marginal to the point that it gives every appearance that there are 3-5 people that even look at it, let alone will actually converse.  As such, I'm disinclined to disturb the electrons.  I also used to post quite a few construction projects in several parts of OGR until I was harshly informed by the members there that no one was interested, so I stopped, reserving those for other articles to have published.

So, I don't know that it's that there are fewer people as much as there are a disproportionate number that simply not interested in projects, endeavors, scratchbuilding works.  The forums may be their own worse enemy.

bluelinec4 posted:

The amount of people interested in transit related items has dropped drastically  I see it at our club  We once had about 15 members that were strictly subway and mass transit   Never had an interest in the rest of the club  There are now 3 ( Myself included )  Steve SIRT adorned one of the subway walls in the club layout with a number of names that were very active on the forums   I look at those names now and its just me and Steve that are still around.  

Transit would be my involvement if I could get over there on a consistent enough basis to justify joining.

I'd love to have a part in getting the subway yards completed to the extent that trains could be switched into and out of them during an open house, whether they were on the el or the tunnel. (that would also mean being able to use the "underground" interlockings to collect/distribute traffic) 

As a bonus, I wouldn't ignore the rest of the operation either.

---PCJ

bluelinec4 posted:

The amount of people interested in transit related items has dropped drastically  I see it at our club  We once had about 15 members that were strictly subway and mass transit   Never had an interest in the rest of the club  There are now 3 ( Myself included )  Steve SIRT adorned one of the subway walls in the club layout with a number of names that were very active on the forums   I look at those names now and its just me and Steve that are still around.  

Hey Ben !!!

I AM STILL AROUND HERE !!!  --- heh - check OGR and MTJ and OGH subway forums -- and of course my NYC Transit Modelers Group YOU are a member of. 

I have posted much here over the years  at OGR but how much of my layout can I keep post with no others (besides you, Joe P and SIRT Steve) doing the same per their layouts, projects, etc etc.  I posted here on a few threads very recently --- just call up my profile and see when and where I posted -- even very recently on that long Thread you started "Old New York"  !!  And on "Random photos of Trolley Cars",  and "SEPTA MY Set by MTH"

Regards ! - Joe F

mwb posted:

 as well as the major lack of same to be found regularly and actively posting THEIR Subway, Elevated, Trolley, Transit, Traction MODELING material, projects, endeavors, scratchbuilding works,  their subway-El-trolley layouts, etc., on the various internet forum boards.

I'm a fairly prolific traction/trolley modeler, and while I do not post all that much on the various forum boards any more, I do write articles and maintain a column in every issue of OST that seemingly is well received, or at least that's what I am told,  

==========================================================================================================================================----> My lack of posting is linked to 2 criteria - (1) if it's for publication, it doesn't go on the internet forums; and (2) the amount of feedback or interest in what I post is best marginal to the point that it gives every appearance that there are 3-5 people that even look at it, let alone will actually converse.  As such, I'm disinclined to disturb the electrons.  I also used to post quite a few construction projects in several parts of OGR until I was harshly informed by the members there that no one was interested, so I stopped, reserving those for other articles to have published. ============================================================================================================================================

So, I don't know that it's that there are fewer people as much as there are a disproportionate number that simply not interested in projects, endeavors, scratchbuilding works.  The forums may be their own worse enemy.

Hello MWB ---

The segment of your comments quoted that I have boxed ( =============) in of your comments reflects my feelings also.... most times little to no conversing of input.  Yet many viewers listed !  Seems to indicate a large downsize of the active participation nor interest level of others.  SO I have cut back on the volume of my forum postings as well --- focusing more so on both  my WTV Zone hosted El-Trolley Layout  Webpage and my FLICKR Photos / Albums Website for my newest photos and etc.

regards ! - Joe F

And, as much as I'd like to personally (and representing OST) attend this meet, I'm already booked elsewhere. 

Tommy posted:

I'm not trying to get anyone mad or take away from the enormous effort put into setting up this show. I am suggesting this may be the last stand at the o.k. corral if the enthusiast base is not expanded. And for the first time in history this can be accomplished inexpensively with targeted e-mail. Except for medical issues, hopefully temporary, I would volunteer. For starters, an e-mail to senior centers, of which there are hundreds. Secondly e-mails to high-schools. There are other potential visitors. Newspaper employees come and go. Time to re-contact them. There must be some ogr readers out there who are retired who have professional promotion experience? Not that anyone has been doing anything wrong. It's just that two heads are better than one and in my opinion the more people that attend, the better. Seniors have money, but the first-time interest has to be kindled, just as stores give away free samples, so people will come back. I wrote to Mike Wolf in the past , who had neither the manners nor the interest to bother with a reply. Modeling in general has disappeared from the culture of youth. I'm not sure how to re-kindle such interests. And most kids have never seen a trolley. The wonderful examples provided by transit modeling exhibits provide inspiration to new generations of potential modelers. And this may be the last chance to re-kindle the fire.

Hello Tommy !

Your comments and observations ARE appreciated and not getting anyone angry here !   But realize that (and I know him personally)  Bruce Greenberg when he owned and ran his Greenberg Train Shows  (for some years now presently  owned and run by different owner-operators under the "Greenberg" name)  -- Bruce spent significant advance money to advertise not only in the then existing model train and trolley magazines,  but in local newspapers in the area, region, where the show was hosted in.  That costs significant up front money outlay !!. 

And thus he had by need, to rent huge space venues in large Convention Halls  or Convention Centers - or large Hotels that had a convention center/hall of significant size.   He didn't / couldn't hold them in smaller venues such as 2 rooms at Rutgers,  or neighborhood social centers  (firehouses,  Pal centers,  Church Banquet rooms,  High School auditoriums, etc) .

BUT - the Greenberg  (and others like GATS)  Shows hosted ALL HOBBY types -- including Doll houses,  Model Planes, Model Boats,  Model Cars, but MAINLY  Z, N, HO, S, and O Scale / Gauge and 1/2"/ LGB Large scale  Model Trains and accessories,.  New and Used dealers.  As well as the parts, paints, material supply vendors for these hobbies.  So he attracted a tremendously  wider "active" audience other than just subway, EL and trolley modeler-hobbyists !  Active meaning involved in their various hobbies and to see and buy --- passive meaning "curious day tripper family viewer-types

Regards - Joe F

Where have they all gone?

Transit modelers I guess are mainly from the NYC area so I would expect as a MFG. it would lead to limited production runs. Fans are scattered all over the country now but it's still a small group. Model details and supporting items in most cases have to be kit bashed depending how serious you are in attempting to support the subway model. Most operators are not interested or have the know how in doing all of this.

A trickle of subway hope surfaces every now & then like this.

https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/...59#74918006664346959

 I too have very little time to operate trains freight or commuter due to the weathering business. I have to say that the true O scale freight side has dwindled as well. Most of us diehards have obtained everything now. The cost factor to new modelers or starting something new is impossible along with high prices and lack of product. Specific and period modeling items never evolved in O to complete all the parts needed to finish the puzzle. 

 The remaining years are ticking away for some of us so enjoy it while you can. Good luck to any future Subway modelers.

S.

  The names will always remain in the tunnels..................................................................

SIRT posted:

Where have they all gone?

Transit modelers I guess are mainly from the NYC area so I would expect as a MFG. it would lead to limited production runs. Fans are scattered all over the country now but it's still a small group. Model details and supporting items in most cases have to be kit bashed depending how serious you are in attempting to support the subway model. Most operators are not interested or have the know how in doing all of this.

A trickle of subway hope surfaces every now & then like this.

https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/...59#74918006664346959

 I too have very little time to operate trains freight or commuter due to the weathering business. I have to say that the true O scale freight side has dwindled as well. Most of us diehards have obtained everything now. The cost factor to new modelers or starting something new is impossible along with high prices and lack of product. Specific and period modeling items never evolved in O to complete all the parts needed to finish the puzzle. 

 The remaining years are ticking away for some of us so enjoy it while you can. Good luck to any future Subway modelers.

S.

Well Steve, here's my story....

When I was 15 I joined a club in Bedford Ohio that had a massive O scale 2 rail and traction layout.  The trolley guys needed a lot of help for an upcoming trolley meet in 1966.  These guys taught me how to spike track, grind switch points and frogs and solder like a pro.  They were all 60+ but I sure learned a lot of local history and even about Nachod signal systems.  The club still exists, much smaller now, as an HO only club.  I am the last original member.  

This is at a time when parts were almost whittled out of brass with jewelers files.  Really detailed functional models.  I did get to meet Dick Wagner and I remember the magazine Trolley Talk.  

One of the members was Maury Stone, chairman of American Greetings, who delighted in telling how he selected his home in Shaker Heights by looking only at the basement!

Fun times!

Regards,

Lou N

I'm dabblin' with extra stuff.....

from my side, I really don't have interest in old single trolleys like some other people that I've met. I do like anything about trains, so I'm drawn to the transport side. I prefer modern diesels and stuff, so there is also a lot of new transit equipment out there to study. The above ground section of the NYC system is fascinating to me. I really don't know too much about it.

 I think the biggest thing is I missed that era that most are into. We didn't have it where I grew up. So I only recently started seeing pics of "Old New York" (city).

Who knows? Someday soon I may start a lower level subway system of my own too.

I hope the meet does well and I think that anything on the rails is worth studying.

Steve

I count four on the wall that are still around  You, Me, Patrick and Joe P

SIRT posted:

Where have they all gone?

Transit modelers I guess are mainly from the NYC area so I would expect as a MFG. it would lead to limited production runs. Fans are scattered all over the country now but it's still a small group. Model details and supporting items in most cases have to be kit bashed depending how serious you are in attempting to support the subway model. Most operators are not interested or have the know how in doing all of this.

A trickle of subway hope surfaces every now & then like this.

https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/...59#74918006664346959

 I too have very little time to operate trains freight or commuter due to the weathering business. I have to say that the true O scale freight side has dwindled as well. Most of us diehards have obtained everything now. The cost factor to new modelers or starting something new is impossible along with high prices and lack of product. Specific and period modeling items never evolved in O to complete all the parts needed to finish the puzzle. 

 The remaining years are ticking away for some of us so enjoy it while you can. Good luck to any future Subway modelers.

S.

  The names will always remain in the tunnels..................................................................

 

 

 

Hello Steve ----

As one of the very few ardent, dedicated, focused and very skilled NYC transit subject-based modelers who has accomplished a beautiful and detailed layout, cars and structures -- your comments regarding the ongoing topic-discussion for the most part spell out the present situation quite accurately.

regards - Joe F

I'm trying to stay in the hobby.. However, with "Train Operations" as my full time gig..and with my layout in Phoenix, it's kinda hard.

I would be more interested in going to train shows train clubs and train events if there was more of an effort to show public transit directions to these clubs and events in any advertising. I am in my 40's, live in Manhattan, I dont have a car and am an O scaler. Maybe I'm a rarity but I know several others in my neighborhood.

I make a point of going to shows that I can find public transit to. The White Plains Train Show is a few hundred feet from the White Plains Metro North station. The Ron's Books Train Show at Greenwitch CT is again a short walk from the NEC Old Greenwitch Train Station (and bonus points _MENTIONS_ this in thier advertising). I go to the yearly Train Fest OGR show/event at the NJ HiRailers but that is a trek. To get there I take NJT to Hawthorne stop and walk a mile. Or I take the sketchy "Spanish Bus" from GWB Bus Terminal and again walk a mile. Often during the OGR show there is snow in Patterson that weekend.Fun.

A Year ago I joined the New York Society of Model Engineers in Carlstat NJ. A big factor was that I can get there from the NJT 163 bus from Port Authority in about 20 mins. The 163 stops one block from the club. Convenient. Still most people in the club seem surprised that I would do this from Manhattan (although the Society  was started in Manhattan in the 1920s) or that I can live without a car. Moving around without a private car is the point of mass public transportation. 

The Week of Oct 28 there is a METCA / NYSME joint train show one block past the train club again easy to reach by public transit. 

My Point in all of this is to claim that there is still a lot of interest in Subways and Mass Transit and modeling of these. People who ride these transit forms daily are big fans but because the show has no easy way to reach it by public transit. The younger people that you desire to add to your group and interest are shut out from the show by how hard it is to get to it.

Hello Silver Lake

You make very good and quite obvious and logical commentary

However,  in this Thread, per your comment '''....Maybe this post won't get me shouted down by experts...."      where, and who was,  "shouted down" by anyone here ? !!  Unless presenting facts is looked upon as being shouted down, (heh) !

Now,  for your mention of "Directions"  -- and yes, very important I agree !

Here is the link to the NYCMTA Website page that presents and hosts of Mass Transit Modelers Show  ---  open it and scroll down to see "DIRECTIONS" --

http://www.nycmodeltransit.org/2017details.htm

NOTE under DIRECTIONS on that page -- the available public transit listed for the Parsippany NJ location Meet.  Because of that particular location, driving is more versatile from many locations other than NYC, unfortunately.

If you were following our Mass Transit Modeler Meets on line for the past many years, -  (have you ever been to one ?) -  and saw the annual Meet Announcement Page,  you would have noted all the DIRECTIONS in various transit forms and routes,  presented.  ALSO lists of Hotels, Motels nearby for attendees to choose if they were spending the weekend at the Meet.

So what is missing in relation to that which you are commenting about ??

For EVERY MASS TRANSIT MODELERS SHOW for the past 20 + years - the paper-flyers and internet announcement pages outlined under DIRECTIONS - the specific various commuter rail, transit rail and commuter or local bus, and various car driver road routes,  available to get to the Mass Transit Modeler Meets -- mostly held for the past many years annually at RUTGERS UNIVERSITY in New Brunswick, NJ.

Most of the New York City and  general area attendees come by mass transit -- Rutgers was reached by Bus from P.A . Manhattan Bus terminal,  or NJ Transit from Penn Station., and many major highways parallel to its campus  Some came via AMTRAK  N. and S. from other states and took NJ Transit train from Penn -- and the free shuttle bus from the train station to  (and from) Rutgers.

A vast majority of others drive (as I do from Penna.) because they are transporting modules,  many models, things for the show, etc., including THE VENDORS with their vehicles containing their products.

Unfortunately,  the rental space costs for venues in many hi-population areas has risen significantly over the past few years because of operating and related expenses, and that limits how and where Meets of our type, can (costs vs: income) afford to hold multi-day events  (usually Friday to Saturday or/and Sunday)

Thanks for your input and comments - appreciated !

regards - Joe F

Great! Thank you I see the directions on the linked page.  

While I have not come to the show in the past, I would like to come to the show and will try to.  I am interested in the topic and experience the Subway every day several times a day. Any show with a clinic/lecture component I find interesting.

That bit about the shouted down by experts goes on everything I post as a disclaimer/signature. It will appear at the bottom of this post. Please do not take it personally.

Hello Silver Lake

Thanks for your reply and comments.  Here is a search link page listing the various You Tube Videos taken at the NYCMTA Mass Transit Modelers Meet over the past years.  These showcased  videos will give you an idea of what to see, what goes on, etc.

Mass Transit Modelers Meets ---          https://www.youtube.com/result...ansit+Modelers+Meet+

Here is the MAIN page of the NYCMTA Assn Website which lists recent past shows with links to open to pages of photos taken at various Mass Transit Modeler Meets.  Gives a wider perspective than the videos --  worth a look at photos of the past shows, people, models, modules,  vendors, etc.

NYC Model Transit Association - MAIN PAGE  ---     http://www.nycmodeltransit.org/

Regards - Joe F

Zach posted:

I'm trying to stay in the hobby.. However, with "Train Operations" as my full time gig..and with my layout in Phoenix, it's kinda hard.

Hello Zach...

It must be hard operating real subway trains so many hours and days a week for the MTA --- and how that may diminish your time and interest in the modeling end of the hobby --- especially with your trains and layout in Phoenix !

However,  if and when you need a fix operating model subway trains,  you know where to come, heh -- you were at my house and layout a while ago  this past May -- and, heh,  I'm still waiting for your PICS and Videos you shot on and operating the layout !!!  Here are some of my pics of you enjoying yourself back then !  Regards ! -- Joe F

I got back into the hobby at age 45.  There will always be a void of participants between ages 10 to 45.  Teens have "other" things on their mind, then comes raising families, etc. With the state of our economy the way it is, many are postponing retirement until later or having children later.  So it is not unusual for people to have free time until their 60s. Furthermore many new participants may not have had the childhood experiences with subways and other transit as the areas where their is mass transit have become highly gentrified. I for one just loved to go down the block and watch a few go by. Standing under an el hearing the loudness of train above still sends a chill down my spine as it did when I was a kid. If the newer generation does not have such experiences, than it may be difficult to get them involved let alone understand why we love this stuff. Regardless the show must go on and should not be terminated.  I do see "younger" (40s) people at the meets and this is good.  Realistically I would not expect to see many people younger than that outside children of parents who have an interest in the hobby due to different priorities in their life.

Joseph Frank posted:

WOW! Beautiful looking work there.

MORE! MORE!

Zach posted:

I'm trying to stay in the hobby.. However, with "Train Operations" as my full time gig..and with my layout in Phoenix, it's kinda hard.

Waaaaa waaaa waaaa!

Wow! I forgot about that wall. Great job, SIRT. I never left, just checking in less frequently.  Raising kids, career, life, etc., it just pulls you away from the hobby, but I still work on the layout and collect, just less than before we had kids or when they were very young.  Also, living down here in Florida doesn't help. I wanted to run my newly upgraded to ps-3 MTH R-32 this morning but heck, it was sunny, low 80s, and the bass were calling, so one of my kids and I took the boat out.  Now it's off to practice with my youngest. However, if I was up North, I'd definitely hit one of these shows.

Silver Lake posted:

 

I make a point of going to shows that I can find public transit to. The White Plains Train Show is a few hundred feet from the White Plains Metro North station. The Ron's Books Train Show at Greenwitch CT is again a short walk from the NEC Old Greenwitch Train Station (and bonus points _MENTIONS_ this in thier advertising). I go to the yearly Train Fest OGR show/event at the NJ HiRailers but that is a trek. To get there I take NJT to Hawthorne stop and walk a mile. Or I take the sketchy "Spanish Bus" from GWB Bus Terminal and again walk a mile. Often during the OGR show there is snow in Patterson that weekend.Fun.

I live in the north-central Bronx, and have been investigating other means of getting to the NJ Hirailers (as in, "other than subway to 42nd street Port Authority and NJT-ing across to downtown Paterson and then ???").

A recent route that came to me since I work next to an MTA bus route (Bx35) that ends near the GW Bridge bus terminal was this. From NJTransit's trip planner:

Walk 0.09 mile SW to River St & 6th Ave, Paterson, NJ 07524

Seems like a bit less of a hike than you've described. This is a Saturday schedule, and it works in the opposite direction (although you may need to keep a close eye on the route 704 schedule going back).

I know I've not had to walk anywhere near a mile from the bus to the club (well, except for that first time when I walked from the downtown terminal in 8-degree weather )

---PCJ

(couldn't make this year's transit show--assigned to work that Sat.)

Hello Everyone ---

Well,  perhaps the notice thread posted by Steve Olsen at OGR about a possibility of this 11-2017 Meet being the  "last show" -- and this thread here (THANKS to all who posted their ideas, comments, etc!) -- drew more support and attendees.  While not as busy as some years ago previous shows,  it was still a very  a good show.  What helped was not having the Sunday extra day cost-wise and scant Sunday (last year) attendance  Steve already posted photos he took at the present show on his "Meet was a success" thread here at OGR -- so I will post my photos which are in a new photo  ALBUM on my Flickr Page -- here is the link   -----    https://flic.kr/s/aHsm8QsHHN

And here is the link to Steve Markowitz's Flickr Album photos taken at the show     ---    https://flic.kr/s/aHskrdoEF3

And for those who missed the link Steve Olsen posted to his Flickr Album photos -- here it is again -------------   https://flic.kr/s/aHsm8zvjCy

I met with long time old friends,  made some new friends, had a good time and had a two good meals at the 2 blocks away  EMPIRE diner both Friday and Saturday nights at shows-end with a group of attendees.    The weather held up well and the Later Saturday expected rain didn't come to Jersey & Philly until about near midnight Saturday.   ALL the operating  layouts ran very well and it appeared we had some first-timer-attendees as well ! 

So for those who came,  thanks -- Steve O and Nate G and Bill W did a good job again hosting this shows !

regards ! - Joe F

Wow!  Some really great photos!  Thanks for posting those links.  

Hello Bill

Thanks much - glad you liked them -- here are a few photos I just took on my layout at home AFTER the Model Transit  Meet  -- experimenting with camera settings and lighting.

Regards - Joe F

Absolutely stunning Joe, wish I had the time and resources to build an EL. Always enjoy your photos!

That scene is a bit before my time. I would substitute the scene using fishbowl buses and 70's autos along with empty trolley tracks.

 Strap - Been there, done it myself as well (life). Glad to hear from you!

Zack - Good to see you are still active in the transit hobby!

 Steve P.

                                                     FOG at the FERRY again..............................