McKeen Car in O Scale

Has this railcar been 3D printed by anyone yet?

Andrew

@colorado hirailer posted:

What did it cost (selling price) per each for the 3rd Rail Budd cars, in brass and then again in plastic, and for the 3rd Rail Pa. gas electric?  Should be comparable to those costs/prices.  Wonder what the original "Overland" version,

not so long ago, sold for?  Lots of cost analysis required to see what is feasible:

working doors, non-working, etc. etc., to make sure you don't take a bath, but that

is priced so you can actually sell out of a run of them.  I would demand commitments

and deposits, when you get that far.  (MTH did not get enough commitments)

The above is correct

At $1500-$2000/unit is brass territory plus opening doors and the operating flywheel on the motor truck.

Considering plastic construction, no opening doors, no interior, no operating flywheel or sound or tmcc/dcs electronics, start deducting from 2k.

@falconservice posted:

Has this railcar been 3D printed by anyone yet?

Andrew

I do have a McKeen car in the works. I mostly finished the body for the 72ft McKeen. The donor chassis that I have (a MTH Railking Doodlebug) is about 14" long so I have to cut this design down to represent a 55ft car and add the rest of the trim and detail parts.

I've made most of the side frames for the McKeen's peculiar motor truck, but have been trying to think of a good way to motorize it to represent the McKeen's odd-sized wheels.

I already have a design for the McKeen mail trailer though! I printed one in sturdy ABS on my Qidi XPLUS late last year.

My model includes opening doors, separately-applied handrails and LED illumination. I added some home-made gold decals (a little hard to see with the camera flash) and some postwar Lionel trucks with pickups.

I think I have two potential customers for a McKeen car set right now, anyone else interested?

I think I have two potential customers for a McKeen car set right now, anyone else interested?

Interested in a set if you can get the proper curvature applied to the front of the McKeen car done; rendering above looks like a flat wedge.  I'd even take a full length version - how thick are the walls?  And what about the floor, underbody, and drive sideframes?

With a good model and the oddball front truck provided, I would be in.  But I think some prototype roads bashed these critters with diesel engines,  modified noses, and other changes, which l have considered as easier models to scrathbuild.

I would be in for a set of car and trailer. Probably like a 55 foot car rather than a 72 foot car, but either one would be nice.

No trucks or power chassis. Just the bodies/roofs/etc. The side frames could be glued over other modified side frames.

Depending on the price, of course.

This might be a good shot of the nose

Good plans do exist in RMC - Schopp in 1954 - getting that nose curvature configuration should be transferable from the plans.

@RoyBoy: I think you're on the right track with redoing the sideframes on an existing car. The donor locomotive I have for the first prototype does have removable sideframes so that's going to be the path forward for now.

@Mark V. Spadaro: Awesome picture of the Nevada car! I really want to go out to see it in person sometime. I was in the Southwest for a family trip this past fall but we didn't make it to Nevada.

@mwb: Thanks for the advice on the bow proportions. I was able to find some detailed scale drawings that gave me a better understanding of the correct shape. To answer some of your questions:

1. The model is presently 0.125" thick, I may slim it down to 0.1" if I feel it will still print well.

2. The floor will be provided from a donor locomotive with a few end pieces 3D printed.

3. I will come up with underbody detail once I am further along in the design, it will be dictated by what fits without being too fragile.

4. I'm inventing a solution for sideframes right now!

I have redone the nose on the McKeen to better represent the prototype's sweeping curves. I've started fooling around with different designs for the pilot as well-- seems like every picture of a McKeen has a different pilot! The current design just bolts in underneath so I can test-fit a few different ideas and settle on the one I like most.

I found the donor locomotive I picked up last year and started looking it over. The trucks come completely apart with just a few screws so I now have a pretty good idea of how I'm going to mount the McKeen sideframes on them. The frame is actually 15" long so a little too big to fit in a 55' McKeen.

I made a "virtual twin" of the frame and fitted it into the 72' McKeen body. It looks like the only modification necessary is to shave a little metal off the front end of the frame. I've modified the window spacing slightly so I can line up mounting posts with the existing holes in the frame. I'm hoping that I can put in sliding doors similar to the trailer design, although the space for the track-level passenger door is tricky.

I need to finish the design before I can calculate an accurate price, but I am anticipating that I can produce these 72ft McKeens as 3D printed kits (provide your own drivetrain) in the sub-$200 range. I will be building at least one with ERR TMCC and Railsounds for my own layout as a proof of the design. I will keep you all posted!

Gee, I'm going to have to keep an eye on this topic.  I think I'd like one of those.   A powered chassis shouldn't be too hard to scare up.

@Trainguy Ken posted:

@mwb: Thanks for the advice on the bow proportions. I was able to find some detailed scale drawings that gave me a better understanding of the correct shape. To answer some of your questions:

1. The model is presently 0.125" thick, I may slim it down to 0.1" if I feel it will still print well.

2. The floor will be provided from a donor locomotive with a few end pieces 3D printed.

3. I will come up with underbody detail once I am further along in the design, it will be dictated by what fits without being too fragile.

4. I'm inventing a solution for sideframes right now!

I have redone the nose on the McKeen to better represent the prototype's sweeping curves. I've started fooling around with different designs for the pilot as well-- seems like every picture of a McKeen has a different pilot! The current design just bolts in underneath so I can test-fit a few different ideas and settle on the one I like most.

Looking good!

I need to finish the design before I can calculate an accurate price, but I am anticipating that I can produce these 72ft McKeens as 3D printed kits (provide your own drivetrain) in the sub-$200 range.

Interested in one...

I would be interested

At this point, I'd be happy with a body that can go over the RailKing gas electrics. It would be better than nothing. You have a remarkable project idea, and a great interest in a very accurate model. Which would really be nice. I know things are costly, but there will be people out there interested in paying for one. The McKeens were pretty interesting. Please note that some existed in the mid-west, including the fact that the Soo Line had one, (or did they have more than one?) Woodstock and Sycamore also had them. Regardless, a wonderful project. Good luck! And thanks!!

count me in for a kit

Jeff is right, having the body matched up with something like the RK Doodlebug would be great, less customization to get a body under it.

Terrific project. At anything under $200 should make it very affordable for anyone who wants one. If that $200 target price point proves difficult to meet, you could think about offering just the main body kit at that price, and offer side frame kits and underbody detail kits as optional add-ons. Just an idea.

@gunrunnerjohn: The MTH Doodlebug that I am using to design the kit is missing all of the electronics, but it does have the motor trucks with their big vertical motors and flywheels. I would imagine that the original PS1 or PS2 board stacks would fit if there's enough room for the motors. (PS3 boards are tiny so I'm not too worried about those!)

@modeltrainsparts: I've been thinking a lot about offering trim levels for this design. I can print in all the vents and bits on the roof, but it won't look as good as separately applied details. To make things more complicated, each and every McKeen photo I've found depicts different equipment in the frame and on the roof!

@Rob Johnston, @Jeff B. Haertlein , @Dave Koehler: Thanks for the words of encouragement! I am going to try and expedite the design so I can get these ready for you.

I added the headlight and a new spoked pilot for the McKeen's bow. I divided up the 18" long body into 3 sections that each fit on my 3D printer.

I took apart the trucks from my Railking Doodlebug donor and found that the sideframes drop out with a couple of screws.

I made a virtual twin of the stripped-down power trucks and studied pictures of the McKeen's front truck to make a new set of frames. I tried to make it look distinctively like the McKeen while still fitting the donor motor.

The original Doodlebug frames are relatively close to the McKeen's original rear trucks, but I conjured up a design that is slightly more accurate.

Here are the new sideframes printed in black ABS and bolted on to the Doodlebug trucks with the original hardware.

Here's an interesting animal: a Doodlebug with McKeen trucks!

I'm finishing another project on my printer today and tomorrow, but I'm hoping to start printing the first McKeen body sections this weekend. Stay tuned!

That's cook, I think having it fit something like the Doodlebug would be a great idea, that makes it easy to power!

very impressive how your dealing with real world physical constraints in your project.  I've worked with professional engineers and designers that could learn a thing or two from you.

Above in your contributions, you appear to ask if MTH did a prototype of their model.  I certainly saw it displayed at one York, and think it was in a catalog, for l, apparently  alone in the wilderness, lost no time in ordering one.  Somebody probably photoed it on MTH's shelves at whatever York that was (wish l had), and maybe it was cataloged?  Certainly was my big disappointment in "built-to-ordet", when cancelled.

Ken,  With your capable 3D printing skill set you may want to consider setting up production for Lionel GG-1 truck side frames. 

I understand that there are quite a few Lionel GG-1 owners in need of them.  Me included.

@Rob Johnston posted:

very impressive how your dealing with real world physical constraints in your project.  I've worked with professional engineers and designers that could learn a thing or two from you.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

That's cook, I think having it fit something like the Doodlebug would be a great idea, that makes it easy to power!

Very kind of you John and Rob, thanks! I'm just an EE who dabbles in Fusion in his free time.

@colorado hirailer posted:

Above in your contributions, you appear to ask if MTH did a prototype of their model.  I certainly saw it displayed at one York, and think it was in a catalog, for l, apparently  alone in the wilderness, lost no time in ordering one.  Somebody probably photoed it on MTH's shelves at whatever York that was (wish l had), and maybe it was cataloged?  Certainly was my big disappointment in "built-to-ordet", when cancelled.

I'm about 2/3 done with my first prototype so your long wait may soon be over!

@Tom Tee posted:

Ken,  With your capable 3D printing skill set you may want to consider setting up production for Lionel GG-1 truck side frames.

I understand that there are quite a few Lionel GG-1 owners in need of them.  Me included.

Would this be for a scale GG1 or a postwar-sized one? I have a MTH Railking GG1 to compare but I don't think the trucks are similar to any of the Lionel models.

I have kept my 3D printer spinning making the prototypes for the 72' McKeen car kits over the past few days. For ease of printing I divided the body into 3 pieces-- Bow, Center and Stern. The three pieces will slot together and bolt to the existing holes in the Doodlebug frame. I pulled the bow section off yesterday after a 24-hour print. Looks like the high-speed profile for the large pieces is working very well! With this I can crank out a complete kit on my Qidi XPLUS in about 70-75 hours of nonstop printing.

So far the Railking Doodlebug's frame requires only 1 modification to fit the new body: you have to grind down the corners of the frame in the front to make room for the sloped bow. I sheared off a couple of pieces with my parallel jaw pliers and then cleaned up the burrs with metal files; the wiser choice would be a Dremel cutoff wheel but I didn't want to dig mine out.

The new pilot bolts onto the existing tapped holes on the frame with two 4-40 screws. The fit is good, but the part is printing a little rough. I need to make the spokes a little thicker and change the printer profile so they come out cleaner. The solid pilot also fits but is a little too short so I need to redo the drawing.

I just pulled the stern section off the printer a couple hours ago and finished cleaning it so I could check the fit. Bow and stern sections both fit the Doodlebug frame nicely, the screw posts are all aligned with the existing frame holes and there is 1/16" of clearance over the top of each motor flywheel.

The center section is on the Qidi right now and should be done printing by tomorrow morning. Once I have put the first kit together and made a few minor improvements, I will be ready for production. If all goes well I could start officially taking orders next weekend. Stay tuned!

That's really cool, I'll have to find a doodlebug to chop up.

Wow love your progress, and I would certainly like to order one to fit on my Rail King doodlebug, after the modifications to the frame like you show. This is really exciting, and can't wait for more progress reports! This is so cool!  Jeff

The Body is beautiful !  As a single unit or maybe pulling a trailer, there is no need for 2 motors, ( having done a conversion on the MTh  doodlebug with full interior, that pulls an 80'/20" car that weighs about 4 1/2 pounds with out a problem.  If I can get one , I will make my own floor, and power truck, and add a interior! again it looks beautiful

I have modified "Buddy" RDC chasses to power O scale gas electric kits, so will use that.  Oddly, l have a stray MTH doodlebug body, that l want to identify and modify to a Rocky Mountain east slope prototype, but not the chassis, which was planned to get a "Buddy" chassis.  Will like to see if this works with McKeen body. Have already lengthened "Buddy" frame for one finished gas electric kit project.

I have a doodlebug just waiting for the McKeen body. Please let me know when these are available.

@Dave Koehler: I tend to prefer dual motors since my layout has grades, but I have had satisfactory results with single motors in some projects. It's all in how you add weights to the locomotive! The Railking Doodlebug has a very heavy frame and thick castings inside the trucks so I suspect it would work alright with just one motor.

@colorado hirailer: That's a good tip on the Buddy kits. I'm looking in to picking up one of those for future experimentation.

@RoyBoy: You won't have much longer to wait. I've finished the file adjustments for the production kits and have been printing the final revision over the last three days. I will start formally taking orders as soon as I'm happy with my printing process.

The very first prototype McKeen car is fully assembled!

Here's that sharp knife-edged bow that we all know and love. The production kits will come with two pilots, a solid pilot and a spoked one, both slightly improved from the one you see on this prototype.

Here's the view from the stern. The mail trailer shows the color scheme I'm planning for my personal McKeen (Rustoleum Colonial Red with faded gold decals). I will be offering these trailer kits to accompany the McKeens in case anyone is interested.

The three body sections bolt to the frame using ten of the Doodlebug's original screw holes. There are 4 mounting posts in the bow, 4 posts in the stern and 2 posts in the center section. The two ends overlap the center section so everything lines up nicely. The mounting posts are sized for 1/2" to 3/4" length #4 wood screws.

The Doodlebug's original rear coupler was about 1/2" too short for the new frame, so I fabricated and printed up a new coupler. These are the same sturdy couplers used in my Whitcomb and Borden Milk Car builds with a lengthened shank. They fit to the MTH truck's coupler pocket using all of the original hardware. I will include one of these with each kit so you don't have to hunt around for a special coupler.

As I promised RoyBoy, the first of the production kits is about 3/4 done, I should have the whole kit finished by tomorrow evening and I will start taking orders then. Look for an update with the final print, formal pricing and build schedule in the very near future!

minor edit to finish a sentence

I'll be waiting to see your final listing for the kits.

The first production McKeen kit is ready to go-- on time and under budget! I am officially taking orders for McKeen Car body conversion kits!

Here are the contents of each 72ft McKeen Car kit. There are 3 body sections, a power truck frame, two idler truck subframes, two pilots and a long-shanked coupler.

You can see how the body sections slide together. As I demonstrated in the prototype build, all of the screw bosses you see align with existing holes in the MTH Railking Doodlebug's frame for easy conversion.

Each kit will ship with two pilots so you can choose which one suits your fancy.

I am also offering the 40-foot mail car kits! Each kit contains 1 40' scale body, 4 opening doors and 1 hand-cut brass frame so you can mount the trucks and couplers of your choosing.

I will cut and install the door guide wires for you. These keep the doors from falling out or sliding around.

And now at long last, here's how you can get your very own McKeen!

What You Can Order

72-foot McKeen Car kit: $125 plus shipping

40-foot McKeen mail trailer kit: $75 plus shipping

72-foot McKeen Car and 40-foot mail trailer kits together: $200 with free shipping!

How To Order

I will be taking reservations for the next 7 days (from 1/28/22 to 2/4/22). Send me an email at the address on my OGR profile to make your reservation. Tell me which kit or kits you would like and give me your mailing address so I can calculate the postage. Each kit takes a solid 4 days of printer time so there will probably be a waiting list (I will try to estimate wait times as best I can). I will issue you an invoice when your order is complete and ready to ship.

I now have 1 McKeen kit and 1 trailer kit fully printed and enough material on hand to manufacture 2 additional McKeens, which should keep my printer whirring for another week and a half. I will order enough additional material to fulfill however many reservations I receive in the next week. Looking forward to fulfilling your decade-long quest for the O Scale McKeen!

Will you consider a floor for both for those that want this in two-rail?

E mail sent

Email sent. Wish I had been watching this thread more closely and sent an email sooner.

@RoyBoy posted:

Email sent. Wish I had been watching this thread more closely and sent an email sooner.

Roy, how do you plan on building yours?

@Dave Koehler posted:

Roy, how do you plan on building yours?

Don't understand your question. Can you clarify?

I have a doodlebug for the running gear. Not sure what the paint job will be. There is a nicely restored McKeen in northern Nevada and it is a nice color.

I am not a fan of Union Pacific, after they tried to get all the toy train companies to pay royalties and MTH's lawyers quashed that.

Who else had McKeen cars? Are there any color pictures?

One of the three Kealty books on gas electrics, "Interurbans Without Wires" lists three pages of roads, big and small, that used McKeens.  Erie, LA and San Diego Beach, Pgh and Silver Creek, CNW, SP, NP, ATSF, RI, and the Denver, Larimee, and Western, which went to Great Western (the one l want to model), and then to UP to last until 1944! Just a few on the fine printed list.   One was rebuilt as a steam car, and then as a gas electric. So, in addition to Cuba and Australia, one ran near you.  (Didn't see one in Maine, but list is by road name and not by location)

Here are several pictures from the Nevada Train Museum. May be of help with painting and decaling Ken’s models.

@RoyBoy posted:

Don't understand your question. Can you clarify?

I have a doodlebug for the running gear. Not sure what the paint job will be. There is a nicely restored McKeen in northern Nevada and it is a nice color.

I am not a fan of Union Pacific, after they tried to get all the toy train companies to pay royalties and MTH's lawyers quashed that.

Who else had McKeen cars? Are there any color pictures?

Sorry, was tired when posted the question.  And I see you are using the doodlebug . I have mine prepped, had planned on  an interior, so I removed the rear motor , but Im not sure , what to do with the metal floor, or the cab area. do you have any plans?

As far as color photo's the closest I have seen are a couple of are a couple of colorized post cards  all in that maroon.

Here are some pictures of a father and son, now both deceased, who built three McKeens for use on a private property layout. I think these are 15" gauge units. All hand built, painted and lettered. for the Woodstock and Sycamore Ry. My wife and I were able to run these during our visits, many years ago. They are wonderful models, and I have no idea where they are today. I am just learning how to use my Epsom scanner, so these may not be the best.

Is the light colored roof generally what was used? The Virginia city car and the 15" home built cars have them.

I can understand that for keeping the passengers cool, but would think that most doodlebug-type passenger vehicles would have black tar paper roofs.

I like this. Gonna check my slush fund.

@AGHRMatt posted:

I like this. Gonna check my slush fund.

It should be a fun build.  From what I have seen , there is from the factory( in the early 1900's) rebuilds repowered and modified through the 1940's , the body its self must have been built well!

@PRRMP54: I've thought about designing a floor for the McKeen car. It would be nice to provide for opening doors and a real "entryway" behind the lower door. I have experimented with 3D printed frames before. I may revisit this once I clear my current backlog of jobs.

@Jan: Resin printers have their upsides, but there are some definite downsides too. I have found that resin prints tend to be brittle, the support material is tedious to cut off and both the resin and the chemicals used to clean the parts are thoroughly unpleasant to work with (most resins are corrosive, have a short shelf life and stink to high heaven!). I've been researching some of the late-model resin printers and low-fume resins but haven't found a wholly satisfactory solution yet.

It's Friday the 4th and time is almost out-- reservations for 72' McKeen Cars will be closed at midnight EST. I have taken orders for seven 72' McKeen Car kits and three 40' mail trailer kits. I have just shipped out the first 4 kits (the respective Forumites have been notified) and I will be printing up and sending out the remaining six over the next several weeks. Thank you for your support and feedback in this very interesting production project!

Silly question but has snyone attempted to swap the wheels out of an MTH railking truck block so a larger drive wheel is in the front and a smaller [drive] wheel is in the rear just like the 1:1 McKeen car?

@prrhorseshoecurve posted:

Silly question but has snyone attempted to swap the wheels out of an MTH railking truck block so a larger drive wheel is in the front and a smaller [drive] wheel is in the rear just like the 1:1 McKeen car?

that  wont work the car will look higher in the front and lower in the back. the axel center is on the front axel would have to be raised to compensate   for the larger wheel.

I should have mine next week and we shall see

@Trainguy Ken posted:

@PRRMP54: I've thought about designing a floor for the McKeen car. It would be nice to provide for opening doors and a real "entryway" behind the lower door. I have experimented with 3D printed frames before. I may revisit this once I clear my current backlog of jobs.

...snip...

It's Friday the 4th and time is almost out-- reservations for 72' McKeen Cars will be closed at midnight EST. ...snip...

First, thank you for your answer. I asked because I have a USH/KTM/Max Gray(?) short McKeen car and would consider swapping the drive into the longer car.

Second, if you decide to re-open the order book at a later date, I will place one for each.

Got mine today , has some issues, I'm not sure how to fix

I have been corresponding with @Dave Koehler regarding his kit. He has discovered a serious flaw in the rear section of the kits that evidently none of us noticed during the prototyping stage. The window spacing on the corners of the curved rear is uneven, resulting in a non-prototypical look and a structural weak point.

I am redesigning the rear section of the McKeen to correct this. Here is a screen capture of my working draft of the new part. (The lines you see are Fusion artifacts-- the graphics engine really dislikes all the editing I have been doing!)

I have removed a window from each side and moved the remaining ones. Although not 100% prototypical, this allowed me to set an even 3/4" spacing on the windows all the way around the stern.

The spaces between the windows are now even which should improve the strength of the part. I was able to work the windows around the rear screw bosses as well.

I will be upgrading ALL of the McKeen kits to the improved stern section at my cost. The two kits I am currently working on will be slightly delayed while I replace the stern sections I have already printed. I will be using my emergency reserves of filament to print several additional new sections and will be express-mailing them to the three customers whose orders have already been sent out. This will likely result in a delay to my ship schedule for those still on the reserve list but I need to prioritize fixing this ASAP.

I think  the changes  will work and look fine. I have started to remove the growth lines from the body, using emery sticks and a sardining block . Line between the roof and the body is straight as a arrow.  The detail parts are also crisp and straight and I dont know the type of plastic used so I  haven't tried a filler putty yet ., but what ever it is it is strong and seems to be dimensionally stable.   hope to hear what every one is using for the porthole and rivets ,  Ken just send mine regular mail no big rush

Nice work Ken, not sure how you could have handled this any better.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Nice work Ken, not sure how you could have handled this any better.

He does nice work  a pleasure to deal with

That is super, and a wonderful way to handle a problem.  Too bad ALL business's don't do the same.

It came!  It came! I got mine!  Thank you, and with truck  frames. Thank you!  And if you still want to play with that skill, l'll take a Mack rail bus, and a little double-hooded Mack switcher...and possibly other critters . Fantastic!

Just stumbled onto this thread.  VERY interesting.  Out regional railroad, the Ann Arbor Railroad, had 5 of these at one time in their history, some with parabolic noses, others pointed.  All had the "square" windows...actually arch-topped squares...rather than the more common portholes. 

It would be fun to do one of these for the AA if the window and nose shapes could be printed correctly. 

It would also be a fun project to explore the use of Northwest Shortline's Stanton drive trucks, battery power, gas engine sound card, and wireless control.  That might work for both O2R and O3R applications.  After all, even though the cars had a rear coupler, they seldom had a trailer in tow...if only one or two, at that.

Hmmm....

The very first of the improved McKeen stern sections is fresh off the printer.

I don't have enough black ABS to finish the remaining kits AND make the replacement rear sections so I am substituting with my backup roll which happens to be blue ABS. Although it looks very different I have found that this blue ABS is extremely similar mechanically. The fit with the rest of the body is the same as you can see here.

Here's the side-by-side comparison with the original stern section. You can see the changes in the windows and how the surface finish is identical-- I used the same profile I developed for the black filament so the new sections will blend in after you paint your model.

Here's the comparison of the interior. On top of the improved spacing, the blue ABS is a bit more flexible than the black so there should not be much concern of the window struts breaking.

I will be printing 4 more of these replacement shells over the next 4 days (each one takes almost 20 hours of printer-time to print so I can only turn out one a day). My plan is to ship out the 3 replacement shells on Monday and then add the last 2 into the work-in-progress kits that are covering my workbench right now.

I can't say how happy and thankful I am that you are doing this.

It's great!

@Dave Koehler posted:

...., using emery sticks and a sardining block .

What is a sardining block ?

@RoyBoy posted:

What is a sardining block ?

Sounds fishy to me.

Rusty

@Trainguy Ken posted:

The very first of the improved McKeen stern sections is fresh off the printer.

I don't have enough black ABS to finish the remaining kits AND make the replacement rear sections so I am substituting with my backup roll which happens to be blue ABS. Although it looks very different I have found that this blue ABS is extremely similar mechanically. The fit with the rest of the body is the same as you can see here.

Here's the side-by-side comparison with the original stern section. You can see the changes in the windows and how the surface finish is identical-- I used the same profile I developed for the black filament so the new sections will blend in after you paint your model.

Here's the comparison of the interior. On top of the improved spacing, the blue ABS is a bit more flexible than the black so there should not be much concern of the window struts breaking.

I will be printing 4 more of these replacement shells over the next 4 days (each one takes almost 20 hours of printer-time to print so I can only turn out one a day). My plan is to ship out the 3 replacement shells on Monday and then add the last 2 into the work-in-progress kits that are covering my workbench right now.

That  blue  is a lot easier to read! they look great

@RoyBoy posted:

What is a sardining block ?

" For sanding under water?)   LOL.  cant type worth a dam.    Seriously, I learned to make and use these,  as a jeweler for finish work.   For example  Take a 1x3/16x8" piece , of clear pine or bass wood. Lay and true it up on a sheet of emery paper, score it length wise (dont cut through it) and glue it in place.  You can use  dowel's triangles , what ever shape you want.  I make them up ahead of time in deferent grit paper , they are very handy.

""""""""""""""""""

]

Ken: Congratulations on your outstanding vision for your project, follow through to completion and doing well by your customers. Really impressive.

I have the Keilty books on these addressing McKeens, but all photos are B&W.  I understand that many were delivered in dark red but were all, and presume many were repainted in the owning roads preferred colors?  And, the center section with step-down door can be installed with small porthole in front or behind that door.   Photos of various McKeens show that porthole in each location, and show an additional (driver access) door toward front.  So these can be detailed to specific McKeens that operated on specific railroads. But, color?

@colorado hirailer posted:

I have the Keilty books on these addressing McKeens, but all photos are B&W.  I understand that many were delivered in dark red but were all, and presume many were repainted in the owning roads preferred colors?  And, the center section with step-down door can be installed with small porthole in front or behind that door.   Photos of various McKeens show that porthole in each location, and show an additional (driver access) door toward front.  So these can be detailed to specific McKeens that operated on specific railroads. But, color?

I have now come across color photos , Alaska Drk Green, Union pacific Yellow, Sante Fe , Red, and the restored one,  Maroon , which seems  to be the stock color. The main windows  are round , or square , or arched .  Some have extra doors  and deferent front widows.  I dont think there is a right or wrong way  of doing them!

I may make one of these for myself (not for sale). I put a bit more definition on the portholes adding circular window frames present in the actual engine. The roof slope needs work and the front end is too loose.

I only have one printer. So mass producing these shells at a rate of one per day is way too slow.

Talk about supply chain issues!

@colorado hirailer: Mack railbuses and diesels huh? I'm already working on a small Mack diesel, but now you've got me thinking about railbuses. I visited the Pennsylvania Railroad Museum back in 2017 and took detailed photos of just such a vehicle. I've got to think about how I could fit a power unit into one of those.

@dkdkrd: I saw a picture of one of those Ann Arbor McKeens and was thinking of it when I read your post. I did some more research and started tinkering in Fusion... keep reading this post!

@AlanRail: Mass production and supply chain issues... ugh, sounds like my day job! I find that long prints are fine during the work week since I'm not home to play with my printer anyways.

I've been spending a lot of my weekend and evening time developing more train kits, particularly for other McKeen rolling stock. I might be able to offer some of these next month if there's enough interest. The next of my new designs is a 48 foot McKeen passenger trailer.

This kit will be 100% 3D printed, everything except the wheels and axles (I even have some trucks and couplers to supply with it). The body would be printed in 2 sections and the frame in 3 pieces. The chassis component you see is about 10 inches long-- my printer is just large enough to do this as a solid piece, but the floor takes 2 parts.

I designed some slots into the shell and frame so the passenger doors can slide open.

Inspired by @dkdkrd 's comment on the Ann Arbor variant earlier this week, I spent a couple hours branching my standard 70ft McKeen kit into the Ann Arbor McKeen.

Adding the arched windows was pretty easy but the parabolic nose was a bit hard to render. I had to utilize some new features in the Loft toolset to pull it off. I'm still not 100% sure I have the angles right but it's there.

I also added a driver's access door while I was working on the bow.

Let me know what you think!

Dave Koehler:. Does that UP yellow cover the roof, too, or is it a roofing tar black?  The Great Western (Colorado sugar beet road) got two McKeens when it bought the remnants of the Denver,Laramie and Western.  Both were passed back to UP, and one lasted untill 1944. Will paint mine yellow if l can't find their colors while owned by Great Western.

Ken

i dont mass print large 20 hr objects because I only  have ONE printer. If it breaks down, and they do break, you're done.

Unless I had a printer-farm with 5 or 10 printers, i cannot guarantee a reliable print service for large prints. Look what you needed to do to correct a window issue. That's lost print time.

Anyway. I do appreciate your continued advancement of 3D printing as a standard modeling process.

@colorado hirailer posted:

Dave Koehler:. Does that UP yellow cover the roof, too, or is it a roofing tar black?  The Great Western (Colorado sugar beet road) got two McKeens when it bought the remnants of the Denver,Laramie and Western.  Both were passed back to UP, and one lasted untill 1944. Will paint mine yellow if l can't find their colors while owned by Great Western.

I wish  I had book marked the color photos, but the Up was yellow with a dark tan roof. the photo looks like it was taken  from  an old color film.  These were some of the earliest  al metal cars on the rail at the time.  Painted canvas , over wood  was the most common  at the time, I dont think they would have used tar paper.

@Trainguy Ken posted:

@colorado hirailer: Mack railbuses and diesels huh? I'm already working on a small Mack diesel, but now you've got me thinking about railbuses. I visited the Pennsylvania Railroad Museum back in 2017 and took detailed photos of just such a vehicle. I've got to think about how I could fit a power unit into one of those.

@dkdkrd: I saw a picture of one of those Ann Arbor McKeens and was thinking of it when I read your post. I did some more research and started tinkering in Fusion... keep reading this post!

@AlanRail: Mass production and supply chain issues... ugh, sounds like my day job! I find that long prints are fine during the work week since I'm not home to play with my printer anyways.

I've been spending a lot of my weekend and evening time developing more train kits, particularly for other McKeen rolling stock. I might be able to offer some of these next month if there's enough interest. The next of my new designs is a 48 foot McKeen passenger trailer.

This kit will be 100% 3D printed, everything except the wheels and axles (I even have some trucks and couplers to supply with it). The body would be printed in 2 sections and the frame in 3 pieces. The chassis component you see is about 10 inches long-- my printer is just large enough to do this as a solid piece, but the floor takes 2 parts.

I designed some slots into the shell and frame so the passenger doors can slide open.

Inspired by @dkdkrd 's comment on the Ann Arbor variant earlier this week, I spent a couple hours branching my standard 70ft McKeen kit into the Ann Arbor McKeen.

Adding the arched windows was pretty easy but the parabolic nose was a bit hard to render. I had to utilize some new features in the Loft toolset to pull it off. I'm still not 100% sure I have the angles right but it's there.

I also added a driver's access door while I was working on the bow.

Let me know what you think!

The arched widows look good. I ordered  K&S tubing for my round windows , and have to cut each one of them, and then cut the glazing .

For me, a Mack rail bus, and Edwards and GE gas electrics would be nice.  I am reviewing my library of McKeen books and articles.  A number of model RR magazines have done articles on McKeens, and two books l have is a reprint of the 1912 McKeen catalog, by Old Line Publishers, 1972, and "The Woodstock and Sycamore Traction Company", by Wm. E. Robertson, 1985. The catalog shows several configurations including a freight only McKeen, and with an RPO compartment. Trailer varieties include the RPO, baggage/express Ken has provided, and an all passenger model, on 4 or 8 wheels. Catalog shows many just delivered McKeens, all with roofs much lighter in color than bodies, in the B&W photos. Pennsylvania #4701, a 70 footer with smoking compartment, is shown.  Foreword states that several came back to the UP in Omaha, and were dropped on GE trucks and resold. If l could find out what color the GW's were under their ownership, l would choose that.  Otherwise, l will go with my freelanced road's yellow and green, with an added driver door, and RPO compartment, which doesn't appear to have separate doors,  mail collector arms, or the mail drop slots of the trailers.

@colorado hirailer posted:

...and two books l have is a reprint of the 1912 McKeen catalog, by Old Line Publishers, 1972,

Would you please provide the specific name of the book and the name of the author(s)?

I am looking for the catalog, but have not found it yet.

RoyBoy: Not much more info is shown on these two softbound books.  The Woodstock book addresses its two McKeens. The publisher is: National Bus Trader, lnc., Rte. 3, Box 349B, Theater Rd., Delavan, Wis. 53115-9566 (414-728-2591).  The catalog reprint just has : Old Line Publishers, Box 123, Milwaukee, Wisconsin 53201, on the back.  It does show plans and the several varieties of McKeens.

I am curious on how the builds are going, ?   Has any on considered, rivet detail, found this company Archer Fine Transfers, Decals, Surface Details and Dry Transfers for model builders (archertransfers.com) has anyone tried them?

@Dave Koehler posted:

I am curious on how the builds are going, ?   Has any on considered, rivet detail, found this company Archer Fine Transfers, Decals, Surface Details and Dry Transfers for model builders (archertransfers.com) has anyone tried them?

Yes, and they are awesome!!!  Archer originally created these for the military modelers, gamers, et al.  Eventually they apparently discovered the railroaders' market, and....history.

Micro-Mark also now sells rivet decals...

Rivet decal link

...in O and HO scales for the railroad hobbyists,

They're easy to apply.  They're the perfect complementary product for 3D printed items...IMHO, of course.  I wonder that they might even find their way into limited run manufacturing projects...an interesting trade-off to die-making time/cost.  It's a definite boon to those of us who like to use styrene for scratch-building.  There've been a few articles written for the hobby's periodicals in which the decal rivets were used.  Once final finishes are applied they're hard to distinguish from 'punched' rivets using the best of die sets....again, MHO.

Highly recommended.

Of the three Edmund Keilty books l am aware of, "lnterurband Without Wires" breaks railcars out by manufacturer with more info on McKeens and all the roads they ran on. Published by Interurban Press, P.O. Box 6444, Glendale, Cal. 91205.

What glue works best for this plastic, not Testor's?  Two part epoxy?

I used Loctite, make sure to sand or file down the ridges on the lap joint to get a good bond

I think he is using ABS plastic;

If it were resin (it's not) you'd use lasered resin.

Dave:...Loctite makes a LOT of different adhesives, as l discovered in Loew's. I have used their 2 part epoxy, and hope that is what you are recommending.  I am in process of installing front coupler, and then will lengthen Beep chassis to accommodate the body, so am a long way from a finished model.

@colorado hirailer posted:

Dave:...Loctite makes a LOT of different adhesives, as l discovered in Loew's. I have used their 2 part epoxy, and hope that is what you are recommending.  I am in process of installing front coupler, and then will lengthen Beep chassis to accommodate the body, so am a long way from a finished model.

Loctite super glue professional  , I was turned on to, this and its predecessor by a friend who was a master model maker for Allen Bradly in Milwaukee!

Made progress on the mechanics of using a Beep for power.  This involved a hacksaw and Zona saw to some extent.  Took a new hacksaw blade to trim front of Beep chassis for McKeen body, and then more saw work to replace front truck side frames.  Supplied truck's wheelbase is perfect for this frame as probably is for the MTH Doodlebug.  Another major sawing lies ahead to extend frame for 70' body, so will assemble body to establish length before extending chassis.  Body will demand added roof vents and rain deflectors.  Not shake-the-box.

@colorado hirailer posted:

Made progress on the mechanics of using a Beep for power.  This involved a hacksaw and Zona saw to some extent.  Took a new hacksaw blade to trim front of Beep chassis for McKeen body, and then more saw work to replace front truck side frames.  Supplied truck's wheelbase is perfect for this frame as probably is for the MTH Doodlebug.  Another major sawing lies ahead to extend frame for 70' body, so will assemble body to establish length before extending chassis.  Body will demand added roof vents and rain deflectors.  Not shake-the-box.

what are your plans for the roof vents?

The only roof vents l could get an overhead view of were on a McKeen model paper weight they gave out to stockholders, and the vents on it were grossly oversized and the double layered rectangular ones.  They also were zigzagged down the roof rather than across from each other, as most appear to be.  And l saw round ones standing up on some prototype versions, so...?     Wish somebody would post a picture of the roof on one of the brass ones, HO or O.         Below l show some progress l gave made using a Beep chassis.

CH  You can look under Overland or Precision scale for the Brass McKeen cars or just google it.  As far as your power truck , I'm not familiar with Beep but it looks similar  to a low end  k line or lionel  motor block may I ask what is the distance between the axel hubs?   

The Beep motor blocks have "K-Line" cast into shells, so K-Line is apparent source.  Provided front McKeen trucks are exact wheelbase of Beep/K-Line trucks.  Trick is to mount McKeen truck frames to Beep motor blocks...half done with that.

What a delightful project!

As I live near the route of the Woodstock and Sycamore Traction Company, I have a copy of this book - "The Woodstock and Sycamore Traction Company", by Wm. E. Robertson, 1985 and recommend it as quite a labor of love, covering in depth the short history of a truly benighted interurban that ran in the early part of the last century between several small rural farm towns with two (or was it three) McKeen cars.

The Woodstock and Sycamore looks like one of those, "Everybody else is doing it, why can't we?"  roads to nowhere (one once ran behind my old house; roadbed is now a power line.).  The W&S never got to traction.  Ken Harpin just mailed me in a corrected shell for the McKeen.  THANKS!  I have already decided what I will do with the incorrect one...using one of those birney chassis from the shop in Montoursville, if l still have one, will add a bulldog Mack front and have a Mack McKeen rail bus.

.

@colorado hirailer: That's a neat idea with the McKeen bus, I'm happy to hear you can get some use out of the extra part. There's a photo of an actual McKeen-bodied depot hack on Page 4 of this article if you want some ideas: http://utahrails.net/pdf/Keilty_McKeen.pdf

The big problem with roof details is that every McKeen I've ever seen has different vents so you have to decorate to your prototypical preference! If the vents you need are hard to find, I could make up some parts for you. I'm imagining offering a McKeen "Accessory Kit" with a couple dozen vents in the $20 neighborhood.

I looked around at some of the McKeen photos I have bookmarked and tried to categorize what I saw. It appears that there's one type of vent that's kind of a dome with a slot underneath and another that's kind of a right-angled duct. I spun up some simple 3D models for you to check out. These are about 1/4" wide and 3/8" tall with the peg.

After 3 weeks of nonstop printing I have filled out and shipped 5 of the initial 7 orders for McKeen cars and trailers. The remaining two orders (for @RoyBoy and @prrhorseshoecurve) are about 85% and 35% done respectively. I'm hoping to ship the remaining McKeens by the end of next week and then start taking reservations for new kit designs sometime in March.

@Trainguy Ken posted:

.

I think I have both types of these vents and some types yet in my traction parts bins.  White metal castings - some might be old Walthers so Scale City Design may stock them now.

Interesting article - trolley overhead pole powered McKeen car - that I had not seen before!  Does open possibilities as I have poles and trucks that I can convert for that purpose.

I finished the hardest task ..getting McKeen truck frames to fit Beep trucks (took some creative engineering!).  Next major task will be extending Beep frame/chassis to accept assembled 70' body.  So first l next need to assemble body.  What can be used to fill the body's printing swirls before sanding...auto body filler, or?

@colorado hirailer posted:

I finished the hardest task ..getting McKeen truck frames to fit Beep trucks (took some creative engineering!).  Next major task will be extending Beep frame/chassis to accept assembled 70' body.  So first l next need to assemble body.  What can be used to fill the body's printing swirls before sanding...auto body filler, or?

Filling in some widows and moving the freight doors using something the call green stuff . I comes in a roll Its a flat Blue and yellow, it mixes to a med green and I put it in place, I tackle the roof Sat.

@Dave Koehler posted:

...something they call green stuff . I comes in a roll Its a flat Blue and yellow, it mixes to a med green...

Very popular here in Michigan for lots of modelers!

You see, University of Michigan's colors are Maize (Yellow) and Blue.  Michigan State's are Green and White.

Spartans enjoy this part of modeling...kneading (with passion!) the blue/yellow and having it turn green.

Sort of like last year's football game in East Lansing.

Sooooo satisfying.

I'm thinking of something like a thicker sanding sealer that can be brushed on and is compatible with this plastic. Need to assemble body before modifying chassis.  I do plan to add one door to driver's side. Most of the photos, and that McKeen provided paper weight show a flat roof vent different from the standing ones pictured above   I will root through Walther's passenger car kits to see if they have anything similar.  Style of these vents and location seems to follow no order.

Okay! I borrowed a brass Precision Scale McKeen, an O scale #22 .V&T.  (Yes, l had to give it back), and it isn't for sale, but does it have the detail!!  Here are some photo,  with emphasis on the roof

@Dave Koehler posted:

Filling in some widows ...........

Living dangerously!!!

i am making an acrylic base to fit the wheels and motor. I will likely add the interior seating and engineer cab.

@mwb posted:

Living dangerously!!!

I try!

using this to create the interior. note the section for children, where they can color!

This might be common knowledge, but I just saw the McKeen Motor Car catalogued by MTH, 2011 Vol II. In 4 flavors - Virginia & Truckee, PRR, UP, and the old Norfolk Southern Railway. Too bad they were cancelled.

Hopefully I can post my first pic's on  tue. still sanding and filling!

Have been raiding hardware stores for miles around to find right O-rings to rim the round windows.  They exist, but few are in stock.  Hope most of my body sanding is done, as well as sawing on Beep frame, which has to be extended. Wiring will have to be spliced and extended, too.

Some progress?? made in assembling this McKeen kit, with surgery required on body and Beep chassis.  Here are a couple of photos, with more work required.

Not using 0-rings for the porthole windows as I modeled the portholes.

This will be printed in three pieces until I own a larger printer.

Again, instead of O-rings you could ask Dave to print the porthole frames that can be slipped into the openings.. It's a simple print, I can't do that for you because i don't have Dave's model.

Adding rivets and metal folds to the roof. I will use the metal fold edges to conceal the printed pieces.

I'm finally starting to assemble my own 70-ft McKeen car this weekend. I started with a motley assortment of repaired and extra parts. I had a perfect set of prototype parts but whenever one of my customer's sets had a misprint I would swap in one of mine. I was able to make up a full set just from repairing some "factory seconds".

After a little filing down I brought the parts in the garage and sprayed them all with 2 full coats of Rustoleum 2x. I'm going with a red and gold Cuyamaca scheme since that's what I decorated my McKeen mail trailer for last year.

Here's the result of the painting process. Once the paint is fully set I will apply some homemade decals to finish it up. A good coat of Rustoleum Matte Clear should cut down the glossiness and smooth the surface for the final look.

Now that I'm caught up on orders I'm finally working on new projects. I want to make a 55ft McKeen to accompany the 70ft one. I have this K-Line Budd car that I picked up last month that I thought would make a suitable chassis.

The 55ft model prints in only 2 pieces with about 40 hours of total printer time. I realized immediate after printing the set (40 hours in) that I had forgotten to model the headlight. D'oh! I might experiment with putting the headlight on the roof like this UP McKeen had.

The K-Line Budd doesn't have as many usable mounting holes as the Railking Doodlebug but there's enough to do the job. I added little tabs that touch the frame on the inside to provide extra points of contact.

Here's what the 55ft design looks like right now with the headlight and driver's door where they should be.

Hope everyone's having a nice weekend!

I'm very excited to announce that my personal McKeen Car is finally finished!

While I was waiting for the paint on the body to dry I put together the electronics on the Doodlebug chassis. For this build I added TMCC and sounds with an ERR Cruise Commander board and a Gas-Electric Railsounds board. This was my first installation of an ERR sound board in one of my projects. I was able to reuse the old Protosound 1 speaker since it's the same resistance and power rating as the ERR one. The installation was pretty simple with just one LED headlight and I got the chassis running satisfactorily by itself.

My homemade decals don't photograph well but you can just about see the text on the nose of my McKeen. The whole reason why I went with Cuyamaca is because their McKeens served an area called "Narragansett". I went to college near the "original" Narragansett in Rhode Island so the thought of another one amuses me!

Last night I sprayed the body with a thin coat of Rustoleum Matte Clear and it was dry enough to handle by the morning. 3D printed trains look a lot better with glass inside so I cut up a plastic food carton and filled in the windows. This time I used HVAC foil tape to hold the strips of plastic in place. It's very sticky and grabs well onto the ABS so the windows should stay in place. I'm going to use this for all of my future builds instead of rubber cement and packing tape.

I put the McKeen together with the matching mail trailer and started walking it through the paces. Through the track switches, up the gradient and into the downtown circle on my layout!

For those of you who are curious, the 70ft McKeen does have quite a bit of overhang on O31. The Doodlebug chassis handles the curves well but like most O Scale trains, it looks better on wider radii. I'm hoping that the 55ft McKeen that's under development will have a bit less overhang.

Here's the obligatory video for you. Volume warning ahead-- that horn is piercingly loud!

Well done. Thanks for posting.