Menards F3 Won't Run

Fwiw, if you cant solve your problem, i would be interedted in purchasing the unit from you. My contact info is in my profile.

Nothing wrong with the circuit board that is visible.

Sounds like you had a track short with a thermal circuit breaker activating and thus it would power the engine, then the breaker trips, then it has to cool, then it trips again. I would check the obvious, nothing is derailed and shorting, the thumbtack style coupler activator is not drooping and shorting to the center rail. I've documented and reverse engineered as much as possible the board but since some of the chips have no markings (main processor radio receiver and EEPROM?) you definitely are not replacing those ever.

Again, more likely explanation, you had a power source kicking in and out under overload.

I'll check for a coupler short on the track.

Thanks,

John

@Craftech posted:

I'll check for a coupler short on the track.

Thanks,

John

The thumbtacks on these do hang low and have been documented to short out on the center rail.

Again possible areas to cause a track short:

Pilots bent and drooping hitting center rail

Couplers bent and hitting center rail

Wiring/Eyelets from the power pickups at the trucks touching and shorting.

Something else inadvertently derailed somewhere else on the same track

Large red and white wires are the power leads from the pickup and truck ground, ensure they are not shorting to each other and or frame.

Oh, I forgot- this may or may not affect different models but my V2 had wheels loose and out of gauge on the axles. I had to take them apart, make my own crude knurling and press the wheels back on in gauge.

Again, my V2 had wheels barely held on by the sideframes, way, way, way, out of gauge. Take a gander at that lower wheel.

I put a square of electrical tape on the bottom of all my passenger car thumb tacks. Could do the same with this. At least to test it.  

Your wheel issue, maybe it is common as I have several Menards freight cars that have arrived perfectly packed, no damage, and have found axles and wheel completely out of the trucks, or half out of the trucks.  Maybe the Chinese wheel QA guy is out on vacation, or worse.

Thanks guys.  I am going to try all of this.  Always appreciate the wonderful help.

John

I won’t buy Menards rolling stock or engines….Accessory items are good

Well Vernon I appreciate your info on the wheels and axles.   Ill avoid any motive power offerings from that vendor.

My experience on their freight cars has been consistently bad.  Great product from the truck rivets upward.  Consistent problems from track rails up to the bottom of the car chassis.  Buying something you have to immediately return is not appealing to me.

At their price point you can always look at putting their car bodies on a decent chassis.

You could put a lighted car behind the loco. When the loco stops, see if the car lights go out.

QC on their trucks could (and should) be improved. At the price point, you can beat the detailing.

There is a quick fix and it has been discussed on several posts. Pick up a wheel puller from Timko Repair Depot, and a inexpensive digital caliper.

IIRC 26-27 mm is the correct gauge.

I understand that fixing the wheels and axles is an option.  But, fixing broken drawbars and truck side frames that don't hold the axles is just not worth the effort to me.  If you like doing that, then you have plenty to choose from.

Buying something defective doesn't make sense to me.  They very well may become the Packard Bell of trains.

THESE ARE AND WERE ADVERTISED AS BETA versions.

So many thanks to those who took the risk and purchased them.

I appreciate your monetary sacrifice for the rest of us!

Alan, Folks like to b___h because it makes them feel good and most likely to simply down play an up and coming competitor to the big guys.  I simply don't pay any attention to their posts as there is nothing positive about them.  Always whining about something.

No one is forcing you to buy anything - so why complain continuously about the same issues over and over again.   So many folks, so many broken records.

Indeed Menards posted these were Beta products and as such you took a gamble on it.  But in the long run these beta releases help us all as the bugs have been identified and will help produce a more sound product when a production run is released.

Sorry to all those above.  I wasn't clear in my post.  And I certainly didn't want to hurt anyone's feelings on this forum.  I apologize to anyone above who got offended or for not being sensitive to others feelings.

I don't have any Menards motive units.  I was simply surprised to see the same area (wheel/axle)  of problem show up in their motorized units.  My only experience is 4 for 4 defective rolling stock units (all different cars-roadnames) that I bought through their internet store.  They were going be rewards for good school work every nine weeks for my grandson.

Now that they are producing motorized units, I was hoping the quality curve was heading in the positive direction.

As I mentioned before, which some chose to ignore, the cars are very nice once you get above the truck rivet/screw device.

I'm not advocating for, or in favor of any other manufacturer.

Raise the price 25% and they're still a bargain.

I'm somewhat surprised that nobody has referenced @Menards in this thread so that they'll see it, so here goes.  Might lead to a resolution, might not.

Full disclosure - I own a few Menards cars and accessories, but didn't buy the engine, and won't until some of the issues are stabilized. I also buy a lot of other stuff at Menards and have a generally positive impression of the company.

My thoughts...

When buying a beta version, one needs to temper their expectations.  OTOH, it's reasonable to have a basic expectation that a train will run and that the wheels won't fall off, and that the manufacturer will make it right if it fails.

If the same issues continue - thinking primarily of the trucks on rolling stock - it's reasonable to expect that the manufacturer will take steps to rectify the problem.  OTOH, if well-known issues continue, don't buy the item and then complain about it.

I'm amused by the people who try to re-sell NIB Menards items at shows.  I don't mind paying $20 for a car if I need to make a minor tweak to the trucks, but won't pay a premium price for the privilege.  And $20 for a car if the trucks need to be replaced bumps the total up to $45-50 - there are better options at that price.

OK so here is what I have done so far:

1.  Checked for coupler shorts to track - none

2.  Checked for short between center rollers and chassis (ground) - none

3.  Double checked hot terminal at pin connector on PCB and ground terminal at pin connector on PCB.  This was easy because there are two 18V PCB input terminals in parallel so with connector attached to PCB one can use the empty connector next to it to check for shorts.  No short between pins.

4.  Apply AC hot to center rail and AC ground to outer rail on track - unit still shuts down after a few seconds.  Wait a few seconds.  Repeat - same thing.  Varied voltage to test.  Made no difference.

5.  Remove unit from track , Apply AC hot to center roller and AC ground to chassis - unit shuts down after a few seconds. Wait a few seconds.  Repeat - same thing.  Varied voltage to test.  Made no difference.

6.  Since there are two 18V inputs in parallel on the PCB, I applied voltage to unit with AC test leads connected to the empty input terminal to measure voltage before and after.  There was AC voltage when I turned up the transformer and there was still the same amount of AC voltage present on the PCB input when it shut down.  I would think that would verify that the problem is on the PCB, but maybe not.

7.  Also pulled out the red plug from the PCB that goes to the motors in case they were shorted.  Same issue.

What do you think?

John

EDIT:  The bridge rectifier is an SEP Electronics KBL410

https://www.amazon.com/10-Piec...tronic/dp/B079KDNJXM