I hope MR. Wolf enjoys his retirement. I am worried what will happen to MTH if nobody buys it. I hope Lionel doesn't because who knows what they will do with it. I have several MTH locomotives many PS1, and a few PS2. Was going to upgrade them but if MTH closes most likely there will be no parts. We'll just have to wait and see.
@CLIFFORD posted:!!! Could this be like the recent Mr. Peanut commercial, they "killed" him in a car crash, only to be reborn during the Super Bowl , and reign again! Hey, you never know ! Could be a marketing scheme. Let the conspiracies begin......
Yeh , CHINA TRAIN HOUSE , hate to say it but it is my understanding tooling in China is owned by China 51% , some factories make trains and other stuff . If something more profitable to China they go with that . In reality train companies are just about brokers , they get a product idea and shop it for the lowest manufacturing cost . All the tooling is OLD , still useable but OLD models run over and over and over . Mike is smart just pull the plug , I am sure he has made a good chunk to live very well . Who needs headaches dealing with suppliers in a communist country . Train buyers are getting old , 3 rail trains is from a different time . New modelers like what they see out there today , and no O scale companies make modern stuff . And HO detail blows away the O scale . Like someone said he has been trying to sell it for years , people are trying to buy food and pay mortgage , rent , and wonder if they have a job . No one is going to step up and pay any real money for old tooling in a market that is shrinking . Another few years all the old coots will be dead and 3 rail will fade away or be left under a XMAS tree for old time sake , Lionel could be next , that would not surprise me either . $$$$$$ for ssuper scale engines and you track is FAST TRACK ????????
In reality there is nothing to buy , Mike had a good run and now it is done , nothing new , OVERLAND Models bench mark brass gone and many others .
Hi , wanna buy some old tooling to make trains I made for 40yrs ? By the way eBay has 1000's on there that never sell , if they do it is for half price .
Not being a Debbie downer but folks from a business investment , this is a loser . Too many trains in the secondary market , and the tooling in question makes the same stuff with a different paint scheme and most are fantasy land . All good things come to an end at some point . Hope he enjoys his retirement , and probably feel great once you get out of the burden of running a "train" company .
Probably my post will get deleted for being truthful from a practical sense .
I was under the impression Premier Steam was still made in Korea. Mike mentioned going to Korea to check on his factory a few years ago when Train World did their Skype interview with him while he was in China.
Pete
@Scratchbuilder1-48 posted:
Hi , wanna buy some old tooling to make trains I made for 40yrs ? By the way eBay has 1000's on there that never sell , if they do it is for half price .
This is accurate. There is now a glut of stuff online that is in serviceable to excellent shape and often sells for half of what it would have cost new. Unless you're a hardcore stickler for detail and modeling a very specific road name and time period, there's just too much really good stuff on the used market. The old molds and tooling are the very molds and tooling for all that quality stuff. The value is likely minimal. And even if it's wholly owned by MTH, good luck actually repatriating containers of tooling and molds through any Chinese port. Not going to happen.
Over the past 4 months or so, I've built up a really nice collection of new and practically new locos and rolling stock for probably 25% of what it would have cost to get each piece at retail. And I've learned how to do BASIC fixes on PW Lionel stuff that opens up a HUGE lot of 40's & 50's era quality engines for literally 10 or 15 bucks a piece if I want to spend some time shining them up.
I don't think the used market is going to tighten up any time soon, either. For MTH or Lionel. As more boomers pass away or move to smaller apartments, there is nobody in their family with the space or resources to do anything with those giant layouts that took 20+ years to fill entire basements. They're already being auctioned wholesale, and more will come onto the market every day.
Enjoy retirement, Mike! Welcome to Florida!
SB1-48: Your take above is rather too generally simplistic and relies on assumptive cliches about both the economics and enthusiast preferences. Three rail trains are not being relegated to the dust bin of history anytime soon!
@Norton posted:I was under the impression Premier Steam was still made in Korea. Mike mentioned going to Korea to check on his factory a few years ago when Train World did their Skype interview with him while he was in China.
Pete
As far as I know all the premier products are made in Korea.
@Rod Stewart posted:Lets see; Weaver gone, Williams gone, K-Line gone. Lets hope Atlas stays with us!
Rod
Williams gone? When did that happen? Speaking of that, it would be interesting if Bachmann picked up some of the MTH residue. Will there be another Richard Kughn to ride to the rescue? Doubtful. There may be something that could happen now that the word's out, but even so it would be very surprising if MTH would continue in anything like it's present form.
MW's insistence on having his own proprietary operating system is the single worst enemy of continuity for MTH engines. If they'd used a Lionel operating system, they'd have some life. There's the possiblity of conversion to ERR for MTH engine owners, but that's not a cheap altermative, especially for folks with a number of DCS engines. Will someone come along and purchase the rights to DCS, and start producing DCS replacement parts? DCS engine owners certainly should hope so. And who's going to do software changes, upgrades and corrections?
MW's surprise choice to pull the plug is going to hurt a lot of people. I wonder what the reaction to all this is for dealers holding a lot of MTH inventory. It's entirely possible their engines have now dropped in value well below what they paid for them. And some dealers are only, or mostly, MTH dealers. Life just got a lot more complicated for them. For anyone holding significant collections of MTH engines, it's like a stock market crash.
Look at all the business that have failed since March, covid-19 may had something to do with MTH. With the slim profit margins and the younger generation not embracing modeling rr as a hobby, I believe the virus may have put Mike Wolfe over the edge. I would be curious how Lionel reacts.
@dk122trains posted:And so did I John we did the right thing!
I bought an extra Remote and TIU. I better hedge my bet and duplicate it.
Well, I hate to see MTH close the doors. Competition in our Hobby is a good thing. My worry is availability of electronics and most of all parts for the running gear especially steam. I have an Erie Triplex. Try finding parts for it. Mike hinted that other manufacturers my purchase the tooling, etc. He also hinted that present employees might continue the product line under another name where MTH left off.
I have a modular layout in process using ScaleTrax. So much for being able to complete it. Really liked that track system for its realism. The rail size enhanced the size of any locomotive that ran on it. Guess I'll go with Super O.
I do wonder if the China relations issue had contributed to his decision to close.
I think if one is deeply committed to DCS , I would buy as many TIUs/WIUs and remotes as you could conceive of using in your life expectancy. Or can afford. This aspect of the company is the least likely to survive whatever comes next is my guess. The same thing would apply to Legacy if Lionel were potentially going to disappear or be broken up. Each system is proprietary and no one outside the users of MTH and Lionel (mostly O gauge) products have any interest in those systems. DCS in HO is not a substantial market and DCC reigns there.
LionChief components are dirt cheap by comparison and post-market companies might produce replacement components, but not as likely for DCS nor Legacy I think, even after the intellectual property issue were resolved. Just my thoughts and advice, worth what you paid for it 
.
That’s sad news. I hate to say that but I don’t see a lot if potential in 3-rail O-scale. HO is the future.
While the dies may exist overseas and difficult to bring back, the circuit designs all exist here and could be assembled here. No reason why Mike couldn’t just sell or license the rights to the circuitry and have those made here. DCS products would have the fewest roadblocks to continue production.
Pete
I imagine another good book of the history of MTH should come out though there are many published stories of Mike Wolf's start and rise in the industry. I applaud his accomplishments and the success of his company.
I'd think there is so much inventory out there that there will be MTH products for us for many years though nothing new. Business will spring up to service and support the existing equipment.
I do have to wonder, with some recent purchases of lighting equipment from China, if there is a lower cost electronics solution to be developed and sold in China. The control systems, while fantastic, are a pretty expensive adder to our models. I note that I picked up street lights and traffic lights from China (webehonest) for a fraction of the cost of similar items from Lionel, MTH and others.
You know, when I first saw the announcement I thought this was some sort of late April Fool's joke. Well, it isn't April and it doesn't seem to be a joke as no one should be laughing. What to say, what can be said tht hasn't already? Well, firstly I wish Mike a Happy Retirement, let's start there. Secondly, I like some others never really got to get into MTH, bad for me and those others as well.
So, let me say this. What little MTH I do own is mainly older stuff, RailKing Daylight, cars that went with it, some Premier UP Hoppers, NYC Madison cars(new), N&W passenger cars(also old like most others) and a few other cars such as cabooses and stuff.
Getting back to my experience with MTH, though very limited, my eye was caught way back in my 20's. This being with the UP Hoppers, but more specifically the N&W passenger cars. Sadly, I missed out on the J they would have went behind. This brings me to the next part.
Seeing those passenger cars and that Class J steamer, I was blown away. Especially considering this was sitting on the shelf next to what the standard was. Seeing what could only be called a big bad monster compared to the "little engine that could, or couldn't" really changed the perspective of me and everyone else that was into trains.
Mike really had clarity of vision and it showed. How else could anyone describe what came out from MTH which was soon being "mimicked" by other companies. Just seeing what was churned out yearly was probably enough to wet appetites of what was possible in the OScale market, not even to mention where else.
I would always go to my LTS and a catalog would be given. I would thumb through it and think about things, but never really bite. Why, I don't know, just call it unfortunate luck.
Regardless, I do hope that someone or something comes out from the curtain to replace MTH is some way shape or form.
When I first invested in my trains, the DCS Wi-Fi app, WIU, TIU, and AIU, I considered this "what-if" scenario: MTH disappears, orphans their app and leaves me one iOS update away from a "bricked" system. Now I am in the uncomfortable position of deciding whether to divest myself of my limited MTH equipment now, or wait (potentially not long) for equipment to become broken or obsolete. I feel for the many dedicated fans who invested heavily in MTH equipment over the years. Mike Wolf has made an enormous contribution to the hobby and certainly deserves to retire. On the other hand, I expected that a responsible business transition strategy would be in place to ensure some degree of continuity, prior to this announcement. I was not expecting that things would end with a proverbial match tossed over the shoulder on the way out the door.
@scott.smith posted:I guess none of you picked up on the fact he sold the building in April. He is not walking away without cash. He simply didn’t have to sell the business to retire. He made enough in the real estate to do that.
Scott Smith
Scott, No I did not know he sold the building in April. Oh well, we will just wait to see what happens.
Bad news on the parts front. I had an order in that included a bunch of PS32 boards to repair dead boards in MTH locomotives, the order came in, but no boards. They were listed as available, but they just disappeared from the order and the website! I think there is going to be disappointed people looking for a repair option. I put them back in for a "new" order yesterday, and today they're missing from my pending order!!!
I see a lot of TMCC upgrades in my future. 
I wonder what is going to happen to their mobile app once the company closes. I don't see how it could continue to work properly or at all. I had the Time Warner security system and once they folded my app for the security system almost immediately disappeared and my equipment stopped working due to no updates.
Enjoy your retirement MIKE, you earned it. Going to miss you at YORK. Another part of YORK is going to be gone. Sign of the shrinkage of YORK.
Sounds like from the post, and some others MW has made sure the electronics will be looked after. That part of the business alone will be small, but profitable.
All companies run into an issue of where do you store all the tooling. A verity of companies help spread out this cost, but after a time you simply run out of extra revenue to cover storage costs. That was why Marx and Lionel mostly made multiple road names on the same engines, it provided the most coverage over all. Covering the road names, at the cost of accurate models for each railroad. Self detailing used to cover making rolling stock road correct, not the manufacture.
MTH was the last to supply close to scale O-27 trains, a must for many with small spaces, and children, they take a sharper corner than HO 13.5 radius versus the now nearly dead 15, at the same price much of the time.
It takes new product being advertised to keep the next generation engaged, and the secondary market alive.
@gunrunnerjohn posted:The biggest issue I see? Parts for existing product! As for the new catalog, who in their right mind will order a complex electronic product when support is vanishing???
The first thing to come to my mind. Parts. Well I wish him well down there in Florida.
As they say all good things will come to an end sometime. He should think about selling to the employees.
My first modern era purchase was a Railking PRR 2-8-2 with Locosound in 2002. I'll never forget how blown away I was with the smoke, sound, smooth operation and quality of the die casting compared to my PW engines.
Mike, my entry back into the hobby wouldn't have been as much fun without your products. Enjoy your retirement!
John
@John Pignatelli JR. posted:He should think about selling to the employees.
That assumes they a: Want to buy the company and b: Can put together the funding.
Rusty
@gunrunnerjohn posted:Bad news on the parts front. I had an order in that included a bunch of PS32 boards to repair dead boards in MTH locomotives, the order came in, but no boards. They were listed as available, but they just disappeared from the order and the website! I think there is going to be disappointed people looking for a repair option. I put them back in for a "new" order yesterday, and today they're missing from my pending order!!!
I see a lot of TMCC upgrades in my future.
I was afraid that would happen.
@gunrunnerjohn posted:Bad news on the parts front. I had an order in that included a bunch of PS32 boards to repair dead boards in MTH locomotives, the order came in, but no boards. They were listed as available, but they just disappeared from the order and the website! I think there is going to be disappointed people looking for a repair option. I put them back in for a "new" order yesterday, and today they're missing from my pending order!!!
I see a lot of TMCC upgrades in my future.
I have a couple spare PS32 boards. So if one of the PS2 3V or PS32 boards in one of my 8 Premier steam locomotives should die I'm covered for a bit. I have both DCS and TMCC so if worst comes to worst I'll convert my dead DCS locomotives to TMCC with ERR. Besides my 2 SP GS class Northerns the other 6 Premier steam locomotives I have (ATSF 3460 class Hudson, ATSF 2900 class Northern, ATSF 5011 class Texas, SP AC6 Cab Forward) haven't been made by Lionel, so worst case a TMCC upgrade in the future is worth it. I'm not concerned about mechanical parts. Mechanisms are pretty bullet proof and I've got some spare parts. Electronics will be the issue going forward. How fast will boards die? Who knows. But I expect them to live at least another decade if not more.
Back in November of 2010 my girlfriend asked me to pick up some hobby supplies for her. So, I stopped by the local hobby shop which was The Hobby Shop in Matawan NJ. When I walked in, I saw the train layout and collection right there by the front door. Having fond memories of my dad running his trains I immediately went over to take a look. It was like I was a kid again, so much cool stuff. Then my eyes fell on one particular engine, a beautiful black and silver Railking Imperial Empire State Express. I had to have it, a few weeks later I purchased the engine plus the passenger car set. I then pulled out my father's old Lionel set (he had pass 9 years earlier.) set up the tracks, transformer, and I ran both my dad's engine and the ESE around the Christmas tree. When my mom stopped by for Christmas, she smiled with some tears in her eyes, happy to see my dad' s train run again and his love for trains being passed on to me.
That was the start of it, from there I built my first layout, moved into DCS, Premier engines, Atlas track and Ross switches, Woodland Scenic buildings, Lionel, Atlas and 3rd rail engines. As of today I have 37 MTH Premier engines and one lone RailKing Imperial . And even though I have its Premier Big Brother, that little Imperial has always been on all my layouts. I’m watching it run around the latest one right now.
The first time I met Mike Wolf was in that very same hobby shop that I had purchase the ESE engine from. It was around the that PS3 was being released, We had a nice discussion, I asked him what was his favorite train and without missing a beat, he said the Empire State Express, I then told him the story of how that was the engine that got me back into the hobby and it made him smile . So, I want to thank Mike for everything he's done for This hobby and again for distilling the love for the hobby back into me. I wish you all the luck Mike, but you're gonna be missed.
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I received an email from CTTRAINS about Mike Wolf's announcement. The email contained the following addendum from CTTRAINS......
"Mike Wolfe and all of the great people at MTH have been a pleasure to work with and we wish Mike all the best in retirement. It is too early to tell how thing will play out moving forward but after talking with Mike yesterday afternoon, The following small list is what I know for sure:
The 2020 Volume 2 catalog is the last catalog MTH will be announcing. The plan is to produce everything in this and the other catalogs before the warehouse closes by May 2021. This includes all of the other gauges as well.
Mike is working on putting in place a network of repair centers that will honor warranty repairs for another year beyond the official close date where MTH will contract with these centers to pay for warranty repairs. Dealers like ourselves will be involved in this process after MTH closes shop but I do not have the details on that yet.
Tentatively, there are two people within MTH that will be taking over the parts department, obviously at a new facility yet to be determined. This is great news for anyone that presently owns or repairs MTH products. Hopefully this will work out well for everyone involved and parts will continue to be available for years to come.
The tooling and other aspects of the business are for sale. It would be nice if Mike could find a wealthy, younger version of himself to continue the legacy of MTH but the reality is that most likely the business will be piecemealed out to various entities. We will keep our customer informed as things evolve.
Thank You,
Jeff McCormick
C.T. McCormick Hardware, Inc.
147 South Main Street
Zelienople, PA 16063
(724) 452-6130
I never got an opportunity to talk with Mike. When I had been at York the first time, he was not there. The other two times he was busy talking with a bunch of people.
@GregR posted:When I first invested in my trains, the DCS Wi-Fi app, WIU, TIU, and AIU, I considered this "what-if" scenario: MTH disappears, orphans their app and leaves me one iOS update away from a "bricked" system. Now I am in the uncomfortable position of deciding whether to divest myself of my limited MTH equipment now, or wait (potentially not long) for equipment to become broken or obsolete. I feel for the many dedicated fans who invested heavily in MTH equipment over the years. Mike Wolf has made an enormous contribution to the hobby and certainly deserves to retire. On the other hand, I expected that a responsible business transition strategy would be in place to ensure some degree of continuity, prior to this announcement. I was not expecting that things would end with a proverbial match tossed over the shoulder on the way out the door.
Mike announced in his email, and at least one large MTH dealer has emailed as well, that parts and support will continue to be provided by two employees as a separate business so I would not be that concerned although certainly something to keep an eye on. The forum is useful but there are a number of people here who, while probably well intentioned, tend to get too excited and jump to conclusions. Others have a longstanding “thing” with MTH for some reason and this news provides another opportunity for them to bang that drum some more. I am not saying I would stock up on PS3 locos right now, but I would wait to see what happens before worrying too much.
I am sure Lionel won’t be too far behind. Might need to go back to flying RC planes now.
I'm wondering about the effect on our favorite magazine. I haven't seen any adds from MTH in OGR in a few months. Don
Like everyone else, I wish Mike and his family the very best as retires. There comes a time in everyone's life when it is time to step away from the working world and let a younger generation take over. I faced that decision about 10 years ago.
I have a sizable collection of MTH engines, cars, and electronics. I know that I can probably keep the engines and cars going if they fail. I might have to convert the engines to TMCC using ERR products or standard DCC. They won't have the "bells and whistles" that MTH uses but they should run.
I worry what will happen with my Z4000 and DCS equipment if it fails. I can't fix those things.
I am going to wait to see what happens. Hopefully MTH will continue in some form. If not, I will still have more trains that I need.
Finally, I want to thank Mike and the MTH team for making wonderful products that I have enjoyed for many years.
NH Joe
I wouldn't worry too much about hording DCS parts like covid-19 tiolet paper just yet.
Below is a copy of a news annoucment on the MTH Website:
https://mthtrains.com/news/659
DCS/Proto-Sound Lives On
June 9, 2020 - With the scheduled closing of M.T.H. Electric Trains next year, support for the DCS Digital Command System and the Proto-Sound 3.0 onboard locomotive systems will continue through a new independent company headed up by current M.T.H. staff once direct M.T.H. support for the systems concludes on June 1, 2021.
The new tech company will continue to manufacture and provide support including any necessary software updates to the DCS hardware or DCS WiFi App. In fact, new and exciting product ideas are currently under development.
The DCS System controls any Proto-Sound 2.0 and later equipped locomotives and first debuted 18 years ago. It has been an integral part of the M.T.H. product line family since its inception and its continuation beyond the closing of M.T.H. is an important part of the transition envisioned by retiring M.T.H. president Mike Wolf.
As the retirement transition process moves forward, more details about the new company's creation and ongoing development of M.T.H.'s technology packages will be announced. Stay tuned.
Hey guys, DCS and PS3 aren't going away anytime soon. In fact, quite the opposite....
@MTH RD posted:Hey guys, DCS and PS3 aren't going away anytime soon. In fact, quite the opposite....
That's great news!
Neal Jeter
I hope this means companies like Atlas and 3rd Rail can integrate PS3 into their locomotives.
@H1000 posted:I wouldn't worry too much about hording DCS parts like covid-19 tiolet paper just yet.
Below is a copy of a news annoucment on the MTH Website:https://mthtrains.com/news/659
DCS/Proto-Sound Lives On
June 9, 2020 - With the scheduled closing of M.T.H. Electric Trains next year, support for the DCS Digital Command System and the Proto-Sound 3.0 onboard locomotive systems will continue through a new independent company headed up by current M.T.H. staff once direct M.T.H. support for the systems concludes on June 1, 2021.
The new tech company will continue to manufacture and provide support including any necessary software updates to the DCS hardware or DCS WiFi App. In fact, new and exciting product ideas are currently under development.
The DCS System controls any Proto-Sound 2.0 and later equipped locomotives and first debuted 18 years ago. It has been an integral part of the M.T.H. product line family since its inception and its continuation beyond the closing of M.T.H. is an important part of the transition envisioned by retiring M.T.H. president Mike Wolf.
As the retirement transition process moves forward, more details about the new company's creation and ongoing development of M.T.H.'s technology packages will be announced. Stay tuned.
This is great news but while the new tech company comes on board has a vendor manufacture parts for folks to service product, its still nice to have a back up plan as in the case of 3rd rail getting ERR back online for TMCC there was a delay
