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Customers,

June 8, 2020 - First, on behalf of M.T.H. Electric Trains, I want to thank you for the support and encouragement you have shown my company over our 40-year journey. From humble beginnings and a lot of hard work, we were able to build one of the world's largest model train manufacturers - one unquestionably buoyed by your unwavering support.

In particular, I am proud that M.T.H. has released more models than any train manufacturer in the history of our hobby. The variety, quality, and infusion of technology throughout our offerings allowed M.T.H. Electric Trains to help bring enjoyment to all who share our wonderful hobby.

It is, therefore, with mixed emotions that I tell you I have decided to retire in 2021 and close the business. The last two M.T.H. catalogs, our 2020 Volume 2 O Gauge catalog, and our 2020 HO catalog and all non-delivered items from our 2020 Volume 1 O Gauge catalog, 2020 Ready-to-Run Train Set catalog, 2019-2020 S Gauge catalog, and 2019-2020 G Gauge catalog will feature the last products produced by M.T.H. Electric Trains.

The new items featured in all these catalogs will be available beginning Summer 2020 through April 2021 and will carry our limited one-year warranty supported by our Authorized Service Center network and the M.T.H. Service Department. Upon our closing in May 2021, our ASC network will provide warranty coverage through April 2022. A list of M.T.H. Authorized Service Centers is available on the M.T.H. website and will be updated as M.T.H. Authorized Retailers join the program over the coming months.

M.T.H. Electric Trains would not have enjoyed success without the support of the M.T.H. Authorized Retailer network. While traditional retail has changed significantly over the past decade, the independent hobby shop has been and continues to be the most important cog in our distribution chain. I truly appreciate the support and friendship these shops have shown M.T.H. I wish all of them good luck and prosperity in the years to come.

Finally, I want to thank all of my employees for their hard work over the years. Most of them have been with me for decades and their loyalty and talents were paramount to our success.

With thousands of tools and molds and a wealth of intellectual property, a new model railroading company may arise from my former company as I entertain various options and buyers. One scenario is a new company organized and owned by members of my current staff. Their decades of experience, work ethic, and creative talent will ensure success regardless of who owns the assets while providing a welcome bridge between the past 40 years and the future.

The remainder of my time will be busy as we clear out inventory and other miscellaneous items accumulated over the past 40 years. As that process evolves, we’ll be offering consumer and retailer purchase opportunities

Again, from the bottom of my heart, thank you for your loyal support for all these years.

Mike Wolf, President
M.T.H. Electric Trains

I just saw this news on Facebook and I have to say I was stunned to see this. The quality of MTH was one of the reasons I got into the hobby and have accumulated a good collection of locomotives and rolling stock over the years. Like everyone on this board I am going to miss MTH a great deal but life will go on. Hopefully a new company will pick up his tooling or maybe Lionel and Atlas will pick it up as well. Definitely a sad day for the hobby. I wish Mike Wolf all the best in his future endeavors.

 No panic here the product line will be divided up and sold to prospective buyers it probably can't be sold as a package because the market is a niche market and financially can't absorb it and get quick return. After all what are you selling or buying a brand and tooling and maybe any parts or product inventory.And this is whether its MTH lionel or...

@MIKATT1 posted:

I hope Lionel buys Mike out and puts Legacy in all of the MTH engines!

Oh no...please, no!!  That’s the last thing I would want.  Don’t get me wrong, I love Legacy and all that it offers...but competition is good for all of us in this hobby, especially in “O“.  

I’m really rooting for some version of the MTH employee-formed company as stated in Mike’s letter.  He’s got some good folks there that really know model trains.  Now whether that’s a financially feasible option, I guess we’ll have to wait and see.  Fingers crossed in the meantime.

Thanks, Mike, for all you’ve done for the O-gauge train hobby.  I’ve really enjoyed the ride since my first MTH purchase in 1998.  I sure hope it continues!

Last edited by CNJ #1601

The biggest issue I see?  Parts for existing product!  As for the new catalog, who in their right mind will order a complex electronic product when support is vanishing???

A possible outcome is the company is sold piecemeal with the electronics being one of the pieces. Could be an opportunity for some electronics guy with in depth knowledge of the system. 

Pete

I think there is an excellent chance there will be a buyer, or a set of buyers for MTH, given that there is a year to get a deal done. I think there would have been a chance of that happening in Weaver's case, had Joe given more notice before shutting down. Also, MTH is a much bigger company than Weaver was. So, like others, I am actually feeling pretty optimistic at this point.

Pat

1) Thanks to Mike and all the fine employees at MTH for the innovative products over the years!

2) Obviously it's only their business why they would or would not be interested in buying/taking over the company, but keep in mind at least a few of the original employees whose names we all have come to know over the years are friends of Mike from quite a while ago, i.e., in a similar age bracket for a lot of them, most likely.  That's a pretty big "new job" to take on if you are closing in on possibly wanting to retire yourself in the not too distant future.

3) I guess I need to prioritize creating my order list from 2020 V2.  Hopefully with the delay in release, the order deadline has not passed yet.

-Dave

 

Reading between the lines, they've been looking for a buyer for some time and the white knight has not appeared.  Hence the uncertainty in the tone of the message, and the implication that the owner is no longer prepared to postpone retirement.  Both purchase of the company and closing of the company are mentioned, which are opposite outcomes.

I wonder if Mike and a group of his employees will work out a deal where they continue to operate the company and he and his heirs receive a cut of any profits forever,  rather than an employee purchase of the company with a capital investment. Many have said that cash flow is a significant issue in this and similar cottage industries.  Apparently no one outside the company is willing to make a capital investment of a size commensurate with their annual sales.   But this insider scenario could be best for the hobby, the company, and maybe in the long run for its founder and his heirs.  I'd guess he would have preferred someone to come up with tens of millions to buy him out (if he is, as is apparently the case,  a sole proprietor).  For reasons others have mentioned, it hasn't happened.  

It ain't over till it's over. 

Last edited by Landsteiner
@irish rifle posted:

Also, MTH is a much bigger company than Weaver was. So, like others, I am actually feeling pretty optimistic at this point.

That's part of the problem, and IMO not exactly a reason to be optimistic.  It's going to take a lot of capitol to buy it and keep it running, so I'm not nearly as optimistic as you at this point.  I just hope there's some continuity of parts for folks to keep the existing stuff running.

First I want to wish Mike the best in his retirement and a thank you for giving me "model railroad fever." My first set was a RTR 2-6-0 ATSF freight set with an air whistle from MTH.

I personally hope that someone buys MTH and uses all of the fantastic products that Mike and his team produced over the years. If the company is sold off in parts, I hope that whoever buys it will do something similar to Lionel's ERR so the model railroading community can still use the fantastic ProtoSound 3 system.  

 

Bryce

Have a great retirement Mike. You sure shook up and made changes to model railroading. The thing that impressed me most about Mine was when I was at his facility in Maryland training to work on his products. In between sessions I went outside for a smoke break. An elderly gentleman cane up to me and asked if Mike was in town. I heard he was overseas and passed that along to g the guy. He told me he talks with Mike a lot and enjoyed his time with him. To me that was a class act. The owner of a company taking time to see this gentleman whenever he could. A tip if the hat to you Mike Wolfe. Well done. 

Andy E for President!!!!! There I said it first. 

I'm sure much will be written in the ensuing months, but just how much Mike changed the game is undeniable. The man has worked his @$$ off along with Andy and Rich for the last 35 years. This is not an easy business and it's only going to get harder. 

I would love to see the MTHers take up the company but could also see a future where Lionel acquires the locomotive tooling and is able to pull off some interesting projects.

Hold on to your seats folks, this is going to be interesting to see how this plays out. 

Well congrats to Mike. I've got 8 of his Premier steam locomotives and DCS, none of which have given me any real issues. Mike has made a bunch of products that have helped us enjoy the hobby, so thank you for the years of fun.

I've acquired some spare DCS, PS2, and PS3 components over the last couple of years. If production of electronics for the DCS system ends I'll be ok for a bit. When it all finally dies I'll change over to ERR or what ever the equivalent is.

I started in O gauge when I was a child in the early 90s and Lionel was the only game in town. By the late 90's the hobby was in an O gauge renaissance. We had Lionel, MTH, K-Line, Weaver, Williams, and Atlas O cranking out product. 25 years later it'll be down to Lionel again, with a bit of Atlas O sprinkled in.  

Holy Snikees!!!  I wish Mike nothing but the best,  but I didn't expect a retirement announcement without a sales plan, especially with years of electronic products looking for support.   I hope he is able to sell to the employees.   Going from "simply the best way to run a railroad" to I'm taking my ball and going home", is one abrupt change of direction.   As a longtime loyal customer I am not sure if I should be shocked,  disappointed,  or maybe mad as hellgate that the system I have invested a large amount of my money and time in is just closing up shop without a transition plan.  I think I am a bit of all three but mostly the latter. 

The biggest issue I see?  Parts for existing product!  As for the new catalog, who in their right mind will order a complex electronic product when support is vanishing???

Mike told us employees today.  The building sold a month ago, but it was kept under wraps.  Mike said he would support warranty repairs for a year after they close and two employees will be taking over the parts side of the business which includes support for the electronics.  Don and I may consider repairs as a side business as Mike offered that part to us.  If someone purchases the tooling before May (which I doubt will happen), operations would likely be tranferred to the new owner(s).

That's part of the problem, and IMO not exactly a reason to be optimistic.  It's going to take a lot of capitol to buy it and keep it running, so I'm not nearly as optimistic as you at this point.  I just hope there's some continuity of parts for folks to keep the existing stuff running.

John:

I was involved in a lot of M&A deals in my career. There tends to be more opportunity for one of these transactions regarding entities with a larger footprint and a stronger balance sheet. Frequently, these deals are financed. It's not like one or two people, or even another company, are doing an all cash deal. That said, I do not have any inside baseball on what the financial situation is with MTH, nor how things will ultimately turn out. But I do know, if there is interest, there is plenty of time to get a deal done.

Pat

Well, at least with the S Scale, I can gut the electronics and either install DCC or wire up conventional DC.

Rusty

Since I'm also in S scale, I will miss their flextrack more than anything.   Their rolling stock is also first rate.  As far as their motive power, as nice as they are, I will NOT miss their proprietary electronics.  BTW, I'm also not a big fan of Lionel's either.  I've had too many of Lionel's electronics give out.  

I knew Mike when he was at York working for Jerry Williams I believe before there was an MTH. I was sick of the toy-like three rail trains of over 40 years ago and switched to HO. It was the scale like three rail engines that Mike was so instrumental in pioneering that pulled me back. Thanks Mike for everything you have done for our hobby, and VERY sorry to see you go!

Neal

Last edited by PRRMiddleDivision

Kinda ironic I just finished up this afternoon putting up several new display shelves for several new MTH engines coming in...can't say I'm as excited to get them now as I was when I woke up this morning!

I was going to order two locomotives out of the most recent catalog. Not now. Why? As I've told my dealer, I'm more worried about parts and repairs down the road. Why go order more when they could croak and I'm stuck with them, especially brand new.

I think the day is coming where I get out of the hobby. My interest has come and gone over the years. I always have and always will love the hobby but I am not in the market for Lionel's products much - can't afford them and can't run those huge engines on my small layout. Will be watching what happens but I would not be surprised if my entire collection goes to auction one day in the somewhat near future.

The biggest issue I see?  Parts for existing product!  As for the new catalog, who in their right mind will order a complex electronic product when support is vanishing???

My thought as well. Without replacement parts (including control systems), what future do MTH trains have to keep running? Someone better buy the MTH assets or noone is going to want to buy any MTH trains, new or used. It seems reasonable that their market value could tumble. Potential buyers are certainly going to think twice before purchasing an expensive product that can't be repaired.

Bad timing, too, when some dealers are just now taking delivery of new MTH products, including special production items. It was also announced that among the new arrivals are steam engines from MTH's new diecast engine factory. Based on that information, something must have happened very suddenly to MW. Obviously, noone would open a new factory just before shutting down his company.

The very best to Mike. No doubt he sits right behind Josh Cohan in the O gauge hall of fame.

Since MTH has a plant in China, this could be a liability. I have no clue but I would think that getting a bank loan to buy the business with the tooling in a foreign country and at this point no real possibility of expansion, 4 lines of products, may prove difficult. 

I posted this prediction several times on the forum since MTH was not producing any new tooling. I figured Atlas O would drop out first. I am confidant that the items will split like Weaver and carry on for at least a little while longer. There are still a few un-produced items and paint schemes left to offer in O that were overlooked.

Thanks Mike W. and staff for all the great products and making my R.R. dreams come true through the years. I will be right behind you as well.

Good luck and enjoy your retirement! 

S.

I still believe that there is some plan for the company. Why else would his letter specifically state the following...

”One scenario is a new company organized and owned by members of my current staff. Their decades of experience, work ethic, and creative talent will ensure success regardless of who owns the assets while providing a welcome bridge between the past 40 years and the future.”

Maybe there is a corporate buyer that will use the current talent to while moving forward. 

@Jon G posted:

Mike told us employees today.  The building sold a month ago, but it was kept under wraps.  Mike said he would support warranty repairs for a year after they close and two employees will be taking over the parts side of the business which includes support for the electronics.  Don and I may consider repairs as a side business as Mike offered that part to us.  If someone purchases the tooling before May (which I doubt will happen), operations would likely be tranferred to the new owner(s).

Good news for those of us who have the existing product.

@Notch 6 posted:

Andy E for President!!!!! There I said it first. 

I'm sure much will be written in the ensuing months, but just how much Mike changed the game is undeniable. The man has worked his @$$ off along with Andy and Rich for the last 35 years. This is not an easy business and it's only going to get harder. 

I would love to see the MTHers take up the company but could also see a future where Lionel acquires the locomotive tooling and is able to pull off some interesting projects.

Hold on to your seats folks, this is going to be interesting to see how this plays out. 

But Andy and Rich also are looking forward to retirement!

How about Rapido stepping into the game!

That's part of the problem, and IMO not exactly a reason to be optimistic.  It's going to take a lot of capitol to buy it and keep it running, so I'm not nearly as optimistic as you at this point.  I just hope there's some continuity of parts for folks to keep the existing stuff running.

I'd agree with this assessment as well. In the current business climate, it wouldn't be easy to obtain financing for anyone to pay millions for a toy train manufacturer. It's all in the numbers that a potential buyer would see, and future projections. I doubt the company is actually worth nearly as much as some people might imagine. Their building is already sold, much of the tooling is owned by someone else - perhaps the major asset is the "good will" value of the company, and the value of the intellectual property. But if what Superwarp said is true, that the company has been up for sale for years, that's not a good sign.

It's hard to imagine that any employees are going to be able to pull together assets sufficient to purchase the company. Also, if MW is going to bail out right away, that's not good at all. Arrangements are generally made in a purchase agreement for the former owner to stick around for several years during the transition. Lots of unanswered questions - obviously it will be interesting to see what happens next. Someone may take over the parts business, but who's going to make the thousands of replacement parts into the future?

Last edited by breezinup

It will be interesting to see what pans out.

Hypothetically speaking, if the company is sold in pieces and operate independently, then I believe depending on the weakest link, it may cause the others to fail. 

The major issue with many folks will be acquiring the needed electronic components for their sophisticated equipment. 

Should the electrical branch of the firm fails first then, I can't see the locomotive hardware side of the business having a means to  stay afloat.  

Mike must have thought this through, as I can't believe he'd let a business he's built-up over the years from scratch simply vanish or collapse.   

Let's try to remain optimistic.

That's part of the problem, and IMO not exactly a reason to be optimistic.  It's going to take a lot of capitol to buy it and keep it running, so I'm not nearly as optimistic as you at this point.  I just hope there's some continuity of parts for folks to keep the existing stuff running.

John

'Well put.  Interesting to see what becomes of the DCS operating system.

Mth trains is the company that got me into this hobby with their subway productions. It’s morphed a lot from there, but anyway... I’m sad to see you go but so happy for what you’ve given me! 

Mike Wolf: best wishes & happy retirement. thanks so much for Your enormous contribution to our passion for trains!! Sincerely all the best. DJ & family. 

Last edited by Dj'sOgaugetrains

I'm a little sad to hear about this passing of a great era in our hobby life. But not surprised at all. I retired  this past January and my son has been inventorying my collection so I was  talking to him about our MTH items and said to him. Boy I'm 72 now and I know Mike Wolf has to be someplace close to that so I can't see Mike keeping up the pace of running MTH.

Oh well, in any case good luck Mike, I hope you can enjoy the blessings of your hard work for many years to come.  and thanks foe a great collection of toy trains and the past forty years of fun.

I do feel confident that someone will buy the company from you. 

A huge thank you to Mike for starting MTH!!

Like many, if it weren’t for the the modern locos and cars I would have never gotten back into this hobby. I spent my whole childhood frustrated the HO guys had F40PHs, Amfleets and Superliners to run while I was stuck with F3s and cattle cars.

Thanks to the MTH crew for making so many enjoyable products that have brought countless hours of enjoyment to my basement empire!

From SJC:  "I think the day is coming where I get out of the hobby. My interest has come and gone over the years. I always have and always will love the hobby but I am not in the market for Lionel's products much - can't afford them and can't run those huge engines on my small layout."

I guess you've missed the LionChief line.  Too bad.

To Mr. Wolf and the Employees of MTH Trains.

First of all, I would like to thank Mr. Wolf and all of the MTH employees at MTH for the innovative products over the years!

It seems like only yesterday when I entered back into the hobby by buying two of the three Santa Fe Dash 8 Diesels with the QSI Boards, and then over the years buying the Proto -1, -2, and -3 engines as they came out, and, of course, in Santa Fe Livery.

When I went to the Eastern Division TCA Meet at York, PA. the first stop was always at MTH and to get the latest catalog signed by Mr. Wolf himself. (Well, almost all of them except the original flyer when MTH started). As time went on, and of course my buying of MTH Engines and Rolling Stock over the years to build up my collection, and joining the TMB Model Train Club so I can run the same with pride and admiration while our guests watch in awe as all of the trains ran on our layout.

I'm sure much will be written in the ensuing months, but just how much Mike changed the game is undeniable. Mr. Wolf and his Team constantly worked hard, and, along with Andy and Rich for the last 35 years. This is not an easy business and it's only going to get harder.

I would love to see the MTHers take up the company and continue on the MTH quality, but could also see a future where another Company acquires the locomotive tooling and is able to pull off some interesting new projects that may have been in the works.

However, it's only their business why they would or would not be interested in buying/taking over the company, but keep in mind at least a few of the original employees whose names we all have come to know over the years. That's a pretty big "new job" to take on if you are closing in on possibly wanting to retire yourself in the not too distant future.

I, myself, am planning on retiring in another 10 years after a 50 year run with the Utility I have been working with, and I am in a similar age bracket as a lot of us are to retire, whether now or in a few years.

With all this said, I will miss seeing Mr. Wolf and the MTH Crew every six months at Eastern Division TCA Meet in York, PA., but I wish everyone there a long and happy retirement, or starting a new career. 

Wow. I'm just in shock. Don't really know what else to say.

I'm definitely hoping someone besides Lionel buys Mike's. Competition is the only thing keeping their prices from spiking even higher. Also going to miss MTH's more unique products, like the Triplex and M10000 and Turbines. But I'm sure someone like Atlas will cover that, though it seems like their O Gauge product line is getting smaller by the catalog.

But what I'm really concerned about is RailKing. As a broke, unemployed HS student running traditional, RailKing was the only product line I could reasonably hope to purchase. Lionel's pretty much abandoned the low-price market (no, LC+ does not count. $700 for an F3 is not low-price), and RailKing's slogan of "The Best Value of O Gauge" is 100% accurate, imo. Or was. But I don't see either Lionel or Atlas having an interest in RailKing. Maybe Menards?

Anyway, I see this as a huge loss for the model railroading hobby. Hope someone will be able to pick up the pieces.

Best wishes to Mike on his retirement!  He has more than earned it. 

He was certainly dedicated to the hobby and its members.  I believe that in all the years I have been going to York, Mike only missed one or two and I think those were only because he was in the Orient taking care of business there.  He made himself available for the whole meet and that looked to me like it could be a very trying and tiring experience.  He also did most of the MTH presentations at Strasburg before York.

The other legacy I think of with Mike was when the licensing issues with the Class 1 railroads arose and he worked out a deal for the whole hobby industry, not just MTH.  It certainly removed what was threatening to become a major drag on the commercial production of model trains.

As they say in the Navy, best wishes for fair winds and following seas.

If Mike parcels out S gauge and American Models picks it up, I could go back to S gauge. I'm dumbfounded. As a 16 year old boy, American Flyer left the market. That was the end of trains for me. Then I saw Mike's awesome scale locomotives in 1997 and I went into O gauge. I have the Lionel Legacy system and 2 locomotives. However, my last 2 Lionel locomotive purchases had built in (engineered) flaws and recent Lionel products are exorbitantly priced.

@Oman posted:

If Mike parcels out S gauge and American Models picks it up, I could go back to S gauge. I'm dumbfounded. As a 16 year old boy, American Flyer left the market. That was the end of trains for me. Then I saw Mike's awesome scale locomotives in 1997 and I went into O gauge. I have the Lionel Legacy system and 2 locomotives. However, my last 2 Lionel locomotive purchases had built in (engineered) flaws and recent Lionel products are exorbitantly priced.

They all have issues...

@Rich883 posted:

Weaver was only a fraction of the size of MTH, like 5%, pretty easy to walk away from that.  MTH is much larger, seems there would be interest at the right price.

That's probably part of the problem. Scott Mann buying ERR is one thing (for example); someone making a large investment for an entire toy train company in today's market is quite another - a much tougher sell.

If anything, it makes sense that MTH will be divided piecemeal, with the train manufacturing portion least likely to survive. Just IMHO. Noone really knows what the current market is, although Lionel keeps saying that each year is their best year yet (at least in recent years). Wouldn't be a complete shock if they jump on part of the carcass is the price is right.

It is a sad day for the hobby.  Thank you Mike for all you have done for the hobby and all the innovation.  It was nice to see an owner with such a passion for the hobby make it exciting.  You will be missed.  I hope you find a buyer to keep what you built around for another 40 years.

Thank you,

 

As someone who retired last year after 43 years in my field, I wish Mike all the best in retirement.

As a customer who prefers MTH, I am disappointed there isn't a plan in the announcement for the DCS system and replacement parts.  Hopefully someone will come forward to carry that on.  Otherwise, if an engine of mine fails I can put in ERR.  If the TIU fails sometime down the road, and I can't get it repaired, I guess I will have to go back to conventional.

At least I did not want anything from the newest catalog.

@Randy T posted:

I am just floored by this news.    I hope the employees can buy the company and keep it alive.

Mike thanks for all the wonderful products you have produced over the years.     

I still have about 26 rolling stock on order.    I love military flat cars and grain cars.    VBG

I just saw the news about a half hour ago. I couldn’t believe what I was reading. It’s sort of weird that I just got a PS3 loco back from an MTH independent tech in the mail today. I also hope the company can be kept intact and sold to some reputable individual. Competition is good for business.

News bombshell for sure. Mike, enjoy retirement you earned it. If by chance the train line continues that would be a plus. If I read right the parts will carry on. Hopefully in one way or another either someone will buy the whole businees or a number of people will buy certain aspects of it. But foremost thank you Mike for a  great 40 year ride........Paul 2

From Landsteiner:  "I wonder if Mike and a group of his employees will work out a deal where they continue to operate the company and he and his heirs receive a cut of any profits forever,  rather than an employee purchase of the company with a capital investment. Many have said that cash flow is a significant issue in this and similar cottage industries.  Apparently no one outside the company is willing to make a capital investment of a size commensurate with their annual sales.   But this insider scenario could be best for the hobby, the company, and maybe in the long run for its founder and his heirs.  I'd guess he would have preferred someone to come up with tens of millions to buy him out (if he is, as is apparently the case,  a sole proprietor).  For reasons others have mentioned, it hasn't happened.  

It ain't over till it's over."

To me, this seems to be a very accurate assessment of the situation at hand. 

It's not over.  There's going to be some real play in the industry in the next 10 months or so.  Hang on for the ride....  

What concerns me - and hasn't really been mentioned here as far as I can see - is the effect this will have on LHS across the country.  The loss of MTH may well have a terrible consequences for our hobby retailers.  Product in the new catalog may not sell well.  (Who knows?)  But the value of existing MTH inventory certainly will decline.

And, that is sad.  

Last edited by rthomps
@shawn posted:

They all have issues...

No! These were 2 significant issues. The first was a locomotive that did not have TRUE Legacy. No way would I be able to double head this locomotive with my other Legacy locomotive. Lionel admitted their error and took it back. The second was a locomotive that Lionel said could only be repaired in China. Well, I missed the memo and the boat. Again, Lionel took it back and refunded me. But, I still do not have these models that I wanted.

Anyway, Lionel prices have gone through the roof. Too much for me. To give context to my statements, I only buy Lionel Legacy and MTH premier.

Wow, I knew change was coming, but I am stunned that it is starting now.

MTH had a great run, Mike turned the O Gauge world upside down with higher quality, more affordable trains, great smoke units, and a new digital command control system...DCS. MTH produced many many types of Locomotives that no one else made, and painted them in many liveries that were overlooked in the past. 

I thought Mike was great, every time I went to York, Mike was manning the booth, shaking hands, answering questions, receiving suggestions, and complaints, Mike was always there. I admire that dedication to his business, the hobby, and us hobbyists.

I hope MTH continues on with Mike’s underlings running the show. 

And most of all I hope Mike enjoys a well deserved retirement.

Thanks Mike Wolf, it’s been a great ride.

Last edited by Craignor

I got into 3 rail over 20 years ago because of Mike's offerings. I still have that first loco, a PRR consolidation and later added 3 more MTH engines . My first layout was based on a design shown in his catalog as I recall. I am shocked by the news. Lots of info to follow I imagine. I just hope he is well and enjoys his retirement. Quite a business man and mega force in our hobby. 

Last edited by pennsynut

I'm dumbfounded.   I got into the hobby the same time DCS came out.   Been a MTH guy ever since.   Met Mike at Leesburg Hobbies and chatted with him at York.   Though small in stature he was larger than life to me.   I loved that he was a Marylander like me and headquartered in Columbia near one of my jobs.   I wish him the best in retirement though I'm concerned about the future of his products.   Now that I've moved to a larger home I had planned to make a bigger better Harpers Ferry layout with Atlas track and DCS.   Now I am unsure.   Since I've bought nearly all my collection second hand the lack of new products may mean that market may tighten and prices rise.  Oh well, life goes on.  Guess I'll go to the basement and run some MTH trains.

This is a sad day for me, really took me by surprise!

I live in Queensland, Australia, and up to a couple of years ago, only had my Swiss-built "O" gauge 3rail Buco trains to keep me amused. Pretty ordinary loco's.....headlights, automatic reverse.....that's about it. Then I discovered MTH loco's.......PS1 and PS2, with all their incredible features, and I was hooked.

I guess I have been lucky because none of the 8 MTH Railking diesel loco's I have purchased brand new have given me an once of trouble (I just love that diesel sound when they start-up and accelerate, the crew/cab chatter, the automatic uncoupling....and those horns!!!!), and they run perfectly on my Buco brass 3 rail track, especially through the switches and crossings.

And not to mention the fantastic service I got from their spare parts division when dealing with "Midge" via E-mails. To start with, I thought it was a guy I was dealing with because she knew so much, and because it was long-distance and couldn't see her, I had no idea. I had some trouble with an MTH switch machine on a tight L/H turn-out I was using in my layout, and she went out of her way to get the replacement switch motor/s to me all the way down-under here in Australia.

I fell in love with the MTH brand (but also have some Lionel steamers and some Williams diesels I purchased over the years), and now run them alongside my 1950's Swiss Buco trains. I will miss MTH not being in the marketplace providing exceptional quality and features at affordable prices. 

All the best in your retirement Mike, and all the best for the rest of the MTH team, especially my friend Midge.

Peter....Buco Australia.

Depending upon your age and interest, one can easily trace the Lionel saga after Joshua Lionel Cowen gave up his toy train stewardship. Considering our current economic and social climate, so it will be for the MTH saga as Mike gives up his prominent position of toy train leadership, endless possibilities await.

Enjoy your forthcoming retirement Mike, well deserved...

 

 

I really feel for Mike, as I own my small business I know most owners have a large portion of their net worth tied up in operating capital, receivables, equipment, inventory and other.  Even though the business may provide a more than good income, all your net worth is at risk every month.  At some point, the risk may become more than the reward.  Difficult choice, but peoples needs change as they grow older and (hopefully) wiser.  I know mine have changed over the 25 years I have been in business.  I wish you well Mike and hoping we will see you involved in some new way.

Sincerely,

Chris S.

 

I think someone will end up with it, or a couple someones.  This played out with Northwest Short Line when the owner decided to retire and close up shop if nobody took it over.   All we can do is pray/hope for the best and enjoy what has been made if the company does indeed does totally go away.   This happened in G scale with Aristocraft.  While Bachmann has rights to the tooling thru their parent company Kader, most items have never returned to production such as the big diesels and steamers in G scale.   Time to reflect and be thankful for what we do have. AD

Wow! I am totally shocked to hear this. I am a big MTH fan because when I got back into the hobby in the late 90’s all I had was PW. Then I saw MTH Premier scale engines and rolling stock and I was hooked on MTH ever since. Then a few years after I transitioned over to 2 rail MTH was once again right there with me. 

Mike I wish you good luck in retirement but you will be missed. Thank you so much for offering locomotives in 2 rail. I really appreciate it and I have gotten a lot of enjoyment over the years with my scale wheeled locomotives. 

I was not going to order anything in the latest catalog because there is nothing in there that I collect and needed but knowing this I am seriously considering changing my mind. MTH is the only company that makes 2 rail steam locomotives I can afford new. Atlas and Lionel doesn’t sell steam locomotives (in 2 rail) 3rd Rail steam is like $1600. I don’t care about electronics. If they blow up and there is no more DCS support I will just install DCC. This could be my last chance ever to buy a brand new steam locomotive in O scale. 

Mike, if I win the lottery any time soon I am going to make you a very fair offer! 

I'm shocked beyond belief!  I'm greatly saddened by this announcement and the possibility that the  MTH brand may be no more.  MTH has been my favorite O gauge manufacturer by far, ever since re-entering the hobby 17 years ago.  Actually it was MTH locomotives that brought me back into the hobby full tilt boogie!  I own more of the MTH product line than all of the other manufactures combined.  Knowing  there would be a day when MTH would probably be sold upon Mikes's retirement, but I didn't think that the day would ever come when the possibility of the MTH brand would be no more.  To me this is an extremely sad thought.  

Mike Wolf thank you for all the wonderful innovations you have given all of us trainyacks over the decades.  You have impacted this hobby with unbelievable imagination and innovation, bringing into reality exciting products which I could only dream about as a young kid in the 1950/60s.  Thanks for the countless hours of  pure fun and enjoyment your products have given me and countless others while in our train rooms over the many years.   It's my hope that somehow someway the MTH brand will live on and thrive well into the future.   

Mike I wish you well and hope you totally enjoy your well earned retirement.  

Last edited by trumptrain

MTH Electric Trains has provided me with hundreds of model locomotives and pieces of rolling stock that have given me and my family countless hours of enjoyment over 23 years. I have never met Mike Wolf but have admired him since becoming a customer. To me, he is the most innovative business man in O gauge trains since Joshua Lionel Cowen. In the early years of my return to the hobby, I was impressed with every scale-sized MTH model locomotive that I purchased, and I have continued to patronize his company for almost everything in my collection. For me, it’s difficult to imagine the hobby without MTH and Mike. I do hope that some way is found for MTH to continue as an independent O gauge manufacturer. I think that the future and health of the O gauge hobby will depend on it.

MELGAR

Last edited by MELGAR
@Lionelski posted:

A way for Menards to quickly pick up a way to produce engines, modern style track, and transformers to round out their product line?

Menards Train House (MTH)??

Interesting thought - and not impossible depending on how deep Menards' pockets are & Menards commitment to toy trains. 

I don't see Menards buying/keeping the whole MTH line as Menards has an established "rolling stock" production capability not to mention excellent accessories.  Locs would have to be the target.

If Menards produces locs with the tooling, my guess would be that DCS would be eliminated; there's no incentive that I can imagine to keep it. 

First thing is first: Mike, you've done as much as anyone for the hobby and I know I am not alone in thanking you for all your hard work and devotion over the years.  I simply cannot imagine where we would be if not for you.  Not playing with tons of great trains, that's for sure.  Wish you well in your retirement.

But wow.  What a punch to the gut.  I cannot imagine the hobby without Premier, RailKing, DCS, ProtoSound, all the great operating accessories...hopeful in that "bridge to the future" mentioned in the letter.

But if this is well and truly the end, I just want to comment in response to previous posters...if you think MTH equipment will now be worthless then I don't think you understand supply and demand.  We have a hobby full of people who love to run and collect Mike's stuff.  Now that MTH won't be making anymore stuff (we assume), the only options for getting MTH trains will be through the second-hand market.  Items that are rarer or more desirable will be fetching a premium in upcoming years, just wait and see.  See K Line stuff for instance.

But if anyone wants to go ahead and clear out their MTH collections at bargain basement prices, I can speak for myself and I'm sure many others in saying we'd be happy to take the stuff off your hands!

I met Mike at York years ago. I appreciate all that he has done for the hobby and admire his smarts for keeping his business going over all these years.  Announcing it to the hobby in the manner in which he did was the most ethical and transparent way for all stakeholders.  I thank him for that and will do a deeper look into the new catalog to see if there is anything that fits my layout's concept, which is anything and everything that fits on 60 inch curves.....

I think we all get to a point in our lives where we develop a desire to have a great purpose, to leave a mark on the world to show that you didn’t just merely exist, but contributed something great to the world. Without question Mike Wolf accomplished this. Both of my boys were given beautiful MTH tinplate engines for their first christmas, a memory I will cherish until I die, and I am sure they will love those engines forever. 

You brought EJ&E products to my layout when no one else was making them. There’s more to the train world than UP, and the excitement of a new catalog release, turning a page and finally seeing an engine in the colors of your favorite railroad... well it’s just one of those feelings that is hard to beat.

I was devastated when it came to reality that the tinplate line was going to end. I can’t even wrap my mind around this announcement.

Best of luck to the employees and Mr. Wolf in the future. Not much left to say but thank you.

Took me a few years to get to MTH trains. Thank you Mike Wolf and your employees for incredible products.

Ives went under and was bought by American Flyer and Lionel Corporation, mostly for the coveted E-unit. Then American Flyer went under in the post war era. Lionel then split into two, after slot cars, boats, and easy bake ovens, to become a toy store chain, while the trains continued on as MPC,  transferred to Fundimations, and then Lionel Inc. under Richard Kughn. Then Lionel LLC. we have today, which owns the Marx HO tooling, through Model Power, American Flier, Ives, and much of Weaver and has had several close calls over the years. Will MTH be gone, no. Marx came back as K-line, now owned by Kadar, as is Williams. Though the maintenance in the long run is going to get harder with the electronics. For a mechanical e-unit or horn new parts could be built in a well equipped home workshop, and sometime even motors rebult.

Last edited by Allin

I still have flyers from some mail order company called Mikes Train House. In the Fall 1995 catalog I bought my first MTH engine. A Frisco FM H-10-44. It still runs, I still like it. 

I’m going to miss buying a new MTH engine from the hobby store. 

Make no mistake this is a huge blow to the market. Lionel and Atlas make great products but I’m not paying $95 for a reefer or $800 for an F3. 

Best Wishes Mike on your retirement. You brought a whole lotta smiles to peoples faces. 

It was mentioned above that some people might now believe that the value of their MTH trains will decrease. That doesn’t apply to me. If anything, I shall continue to value my MTH trains more than ever. They may well become irreplaceable if production does not continue. For me and the inheritors of my collection, their value will be that they represent what I believe is the finest range of products ever to have been made in O gauge. I also wonder whether a Chinese-owned company may purchase the assets and continue with production. It seems to me that interests in China would want to preserve the jobs and earnings produced there by MTH. This may be the opportune time for someone to set up manufacturing in the United States if tooling can be extracted from China. In the meantime, we have reached a watershed moment for the hobby and I am concerned for its future. Mike Wolf has been a visionary for the hobby. I reiterate my best wishes to him and his employees.

MELGAR

When I collected O-gauge trains with Rock Island (CRI&P and THE ROCK) decor, I bought every RI model I could find by major manufacturers, including MTH. I owned the RI version of the Aerotrain, the DL109, and other RI locos. All were accurately decorated and ran very well.  I owned more RI trains than I could ever run on a layout, and it was a great time in my life.  Mike Wolf offered more RI locos and rolling stock than Lionel, so I read every MTH catalog with "Rock Island anticipation."  Mike:  thanks for the ride on "A Mighty Fine Line" via O-gauge.

When I sold my RI collection at auction because of my medical issues, "separation anxiety" from RI trains set in.  Selling my RI Aerotrain was a difficult decision, but necessary. 

Mike Mottler
mottlerm@gmail.com    

 

It is going to take someone like Richard Kughn to save MTH.  The employees have probably known for quite a while that the company was on the block and if there was any  interest they would have acted on it already. With the building sold I think Mike has seen the writing on the wall and has decided it’s time to move on.  I had been hoping to see one more Tinplate Traditions offering however it will take nothing short of a miracle now. I have spent Many York’s speaking with Mike, he was always the gentleman and I wish him nothing but the best.  Thanks for the memories.    

@MELGAR posted:

If MTH train manufacturing goes away or Lionel is able to purchase it, the O gauge hobby will be negatively impacted due to lack of competition and higher prices. The effect on local hobby shops who sell MTH will also be adverse. As someone who has bought mostly MTH products, I'm sorry to see this. My very best wishes to Mike.

MELGAR

hearsay - prices my moderate or even go down - one never knows.

 

Wow, I had noticed the lack of new tooling in recent years, but I still didn't see this coming so soon. This is honestly heartbreaking. 

As someone who models the LIRR, this is pretty devastating. I'm a big Lionel fan but they've only done about 3 Legacy Long Island engines in the past 10 years where as MTH as done probably upwards of 10, in more paint schemes. Not to mention the amazing Nassau Hobby Exclusives I usually look forward to which are an instant buy from me. 

In general, I think MTH had a much higher volume of trains and road names being produced ever year. Their premier freight car selection and choice of road names was unmatched as well and I think there will a huge demand for that stuff if nobody continues using the tooling. Many premier cars are already pricey on eBay, I fear to think what the market for them will look like once they're unavailable.  

However I do think if anyone deserves to retire it's Mike Wolf, he's done an immeasurable amount of good for this hobby and completely deserves a rest. He was a true game changer in this industry. 

@Billbarman posted:

Wow, I had noticed the lack of new tooling in recent years, but I still didn't see this coming so soon. This is honestly heartbreaking. 

As someone who models the LIRR, this is pretty devastating. I'm a big Lionel fan but they've only done about 3 Legacy Long Island engines in the past 10 years where as MTH as done probably upwards of 10, in more paint schemes. Not to mention the amazing Nassau Hobby Exclusives I usually look forward to which are an instant buy from me. 

In general, I think MTH had a much higher volume of trains and road names being produced ever year. Their premier freight car selection and choice of road names was unmatched as well and I think there will a huge demand for that stuff if nobody continues using the tooling. Many premier cars are already pricey on eBay, I fear to think what the market for them will look like once they're unavailable.  

However I do think if anyone deserves to retire it's Mike Wolf, he's done an immeasurable amount of good for this hobby and completely deserves a rest. He was a true game changer in this industry. 

I had a feeling this was coming.  Catalogs were becoming stale.  And no LC type system.

Also, there might be something going onin the Far East....beyond the virus.

Last edited by Dominic Mazoch

1) Well, any future issues will deal with engines and DCS.  Everything else on a layout can be any brand, that is it will work.  I suspect that someone will come up with a way to adapt IF DCS goes away.

2) As most of us are seeing (or can see if you look) this hobby is shrinking.  Most of the people you see at train swap meets/meetings have gray hair.  There are very few young people interested.  Somewhere in the future I suspect that most model RRing will be on computers.

Mike, congratulations on your 40 years building electric trains and have a long and healthful retirement.

Kader Industries, parent company of Bachmann Electric Trains, is a Hong Kong Company. Certainly has deep pockets, with a huge manufacturing facility along with a distribution / supply network. It would seem that it would be a possible transition if Kader Industries saw any potential in acquiring MTH.

Last edited by Bill T

Assuming that Lionel found out yesterday as well, I wish I could be on their Zoom meeting this morning!!! Howard is going to open the meeting with "well boys what do you think?" I hope they would buy some of their models to produce them in Legacy..I feel bad for Trainland, Mr. Muffins and all the other dealers who invest in MTH inventory!!

@Cincytrains posted:

Assuming that Lionel found out yesterday as well, I wish I could be on their Zoom meeting this morning!!! Howard is going to open the meeting with "well boys what do you think?" I hope they would buy some of their models to produce them in Legacy..I feel bad for Trainland, Mr. Muffins and all the other dealers who invest in MTH inventory!!

Just Trains is also pretty much an MTH shop too.  This is the issue with putting all your eggs in one basket.  My mom used to work for a shipping company that did shipping exclusively for Circuit City.  Guess where that company is now? 

This is sad news indeed. Our hobby would look very different today if Mike did not create MTH. We had many great products for our enjoyment over the years. The part that concerns me the most is the loss of new tinplate products. As others have said, hopefully parts of the company will continue in some fashion. Today is definitely a fork in the road for our hobby. How it continues from here will be interesting.

Thank you Mike for all you did for our hobby. Enjoy your retirement.

Sad for us and for the hobby as the competition and innovation MTH brought to O gauge compelled Lionel to up its game and do more than merely reissue "new" versions of postwar-era engines. Recall that Lionel's first new diesel--a Dash-9, if I recall--back in the 1980s was built by Mike Wolf's company.

This has caused me to reminisce a little about Mike Wolf. In particular, I recall seeing him and his wife at Trainstock a few years ago; I recall him sitting on his stool in the old Yellow Hall (under the grandstand) at York playing with MTH's then-new helicopter car, repeatedly sending the copter up into the underside of the grandstand; and touring MTH's headquarters in Maryland on an OGR-sponsored bus trip. Clearly, Mike really is a kid at heart. And aren't all of us who choose to "play with trains" kids at heart?

I hope that arrangements can be made for MTH to continue in some form after Mike's departure. Its permanent closure would be an immense loss to model railroading and particularly to the O gauge portion of it.

I wish Mike Wolf all the best in his well-earned retirement. I hope we'll still see him around once in a while.

Stay healthy, everyone.

Chris

I just read about Mike's retirement, all I can say is wow!!   I have been a loyal customer since the late 90s and have loved the MTH items.  I still think DCS is by far the best operating system out there.  I wish Mike all the best and hope he has a great retirement.  He deserves it!   He revolutionized the O gauge model train business and I am sure had to work extremely hard to get it started and keep it going.  Hopefully someone with Mike's interests and capabilities and money will be able to step up to the plate and keep it going somehow.   

This is a sad day though for all of us MTH acolytes.  You always hope something will last forever but it just never does.  

Again, my best to Mike and his employees.  God bless you all!

When the train market was brisk, MTH came out with some great products at affordable prices. An alternative to Lionel was refreshing to have. It is sad to see MTH close but we must come to realize that that the demographics of those that buy the trains is rapidly changing.  The market once supported 8 or 9  O gauge model train companies now Lionel, Atlas, Williams and Menards remain. This is probably still enough to satisfy the market.  MTH had a great run and we wish Mike Wolf all the best in his retirement. There will still be trains to satisfy the market needs but the bottom line here is that nothing is forever,

When the train market was brisk, MTH came out with some great products at affordable prices. An alternative to Lionel was refreshing to have. It is sad to see MTH close but we must come to realize that that the demographics of those that buy the trains is rapidly changing.  The market once supported 8 or 9  O gauge model train companies now Lionel, Atlas, Williams and Menards remain. This is probably still enough to satisfy the market.  MTH had a great run and we wish Mike Wolf all the best in his retirement. There will still be trains to satisfy the market needs but the bottom line here is that nothing is forever,

 

 

 

Demographics and the trouble brewing with China are more than reason enough to call it a day:

Demographics - It’s unfortunate but baby boomers are aging out faster than new folks are getting into the hobby. The market is on the verge of a serious stretch of deflation as supply will significantly exceed demand for all but the rarest of the rare. This is actually a very good time to get into the hobby as you will be able buy some high end stuff at low prices.

China - Who knows how this will turn out, but when you are dealing with a trading partner that you can’t trust it is going to be ugly.

 If any of us were running a profitable business with the above undercurrents, you’d probably cash it in while there was still a good amount a cash to get. 

Even though I did not support MTH by purchasing new products, I own quite a bit that was purchased on the used market and am more than pleased my purchases. 

I wish Mike and his crew the best, thank you for all you have done to make the train hobby relevant in the 21st century. No matter what part of the hobby you participate in you have benefited from MTH!

Like others here on this forum, I don't know if I would be in this hobby were it not for Mike.  The only offering out there was not near in scale or detail, that we now demand, thanks to Mike for an affordable price.

As far as MTH going away, never to be seen again, I hope not and doubt it would.  Outside money thought Lionel was a good investment more than once.  With the tooling, parts base and good will and other assets, MTH under different ownership makes financial sense. 

I can't see us in 10 years with the absence of DCS, rendering our DCS engines, structures and accessories obsolete.  Some of you friends have upwards of 50 engines.  If a retrofit was available for $200 an engine,...you do the math.  Hopefully this is transition and re-birth, not demise.

 

Godspeed Mike, and please be on the new board and hopefully Mr. Foster and Andy will stay with a new MTH as well, in addition to the other people that make MTH what it is today.

I'm willing to bet your last comment, while not the sole reason may be playing into the timing and speed of this.

And not to start rumors, but could there also be some legal stuff in which it was best for MTH to "go away".  Best we do not know for the hobby's sake.

Sunset/3rd Rail might be interested party to get some items.....

Last edited by Dominic Mazoch

Like many have already stated I'm a little concerned about this as well. First, yes, congrats to Mike, he did a lot for the hobby. We all need a break and can't work ourselves into the grave.

From a consumer point of view who has the majority of his layout from MTH I'm really worried about support down the road. I run the tinplate traditions/Lionel Corp pieces with DCS. So I have very limited choices if things fall apart in the next few years. 

A company like Dallee might do very well if they can get the rights to DCS.


But if this is well and truly the end, I just want to comment in response to previous posters...if you think MTH equipment will now be worthless then I don't think you understand supply and demand.  We have a hobby full of people who love to run and collect Mike's stuff.  Now that MTH won't be making anymore stuff (we assume), the only options for getting MTH trains will be through the second-hand market.  Items that are rarer or more desirable will be fetching a premium in upcoming years, just wait and see.  See K Line stuff for instance.

But if anyone wants to go ahead and clear out their MTH collections at bargain basement prices, I can speak for myself and I'm sure many others in saying we'd be happy to take the stuff off your hands!

Woody, I agree with you. In the '70s when Lionel was owned by MPC many folks preferred the Lionel PW trains produced by the original company and the prices of those trains went up. I can see the same thing happening here if like you said this is truly the end.

Wow, it is the next day and it still feels like a punch to the gut. I knew that someday Mike would want to retire but I guess I always thought that Andy or someone else from inside the company would take over.

@Oman posted:

No! These were 2 significant issues. The first was a locomotive that did not have TRUE Legacy. No way would I be able to double head this locomotive with my other Legacy locomotive. Lionel admitted their error and took it back. The second was a locomotive that Lionel said could only be repaired in China. Well, I missed the memo and the boat. Again, Lionel took it back and refunded me. But, I still do not have these models that I wanted.

Anyway, Lionel prices have gone through the roof. Too much for me. To give context to my statements, I only buy Lionel Legacy and MTH premier.

Sounds like you had some really bad luck. I have purchased numerous Legacy engines over the past few years and have had a significant issue with only one of them. On the other hand, I have purchased many MTH Premier Proto-2 and Proto-3 engines during that same timeframe, and have had significant issues with a number of them.

Pat

Last edited by irish rifle

I knew this was going to happen soon. Mike had purchased a home in Florida. His company had not produced any new items in recent years. He will be age 60 this year. We both joined the TCA in 1977. I retired at age 60. I could move from the Northeast any time I desired.

Interesting. 60 is a very early age to be retiring these days. 

Pat

Quit reading so much into this. 2 1/2 years ago we put fiber into his building. All the utilities in that office park are under ground and they was not a spare conduit  between his building and the street. It was very a expensive project. So you may be thinking Mike was investing long term into the business. That was not  the driving reason. Mike said to me “I will  get more for my building if it has fiber”. 

Mike is retiring , just as he said. He has planned this for years. There is no crisis in China or anywhere else driving this. Mike has spend a large portion of his time every year in China to make sure the product was up to his standards. I am sure after 30 years of that he would want to retire. 

Scott Smith

This news reads and feels like a punch to the gut. I certainly understand desire to retire...and having once been involved in the day-to-day operations of a privately-owned business I know it is not easy, very stressful it is. MTH has been an institution in Standard and O-gauge - Mike Wolf's history reads as an American success story - I won't repeat it here as you all probably know it, or will learn it someday. Suffice to say, I have about an equal share of both MTH and Lionel engines and rolling stock, and operate via DCS and Legacy, and I've endeavored with DCS through all the troubleshooting...and the thought of support for that going away is another stomach punch.

From a business profitability standpoint, if a company is viable and profitable then it can be sold and taken over ~ the proverbial change of management. Announcing a company is closing with an ambiguous future of the product line puts a kibosh on products coming down the pipeline as well as consumer confidence in buying existing dealer inventories. For selfish reasons, I hope someone buys the tools and dyes, patents, etc, and keeps the product lines going. And, competition is a healthy thing in business. Having two "heavy hitters", MTH and Lionel, was good for the hobby, keeps everyone sharp. It took MTH a long time, but I recently read they finally implemented whistle steam in the new Premier T1s...something that was a long-time coming...I think they previously had it only on their Premier Big Boy.

This is really sad, and potentially, bad news for the hobby.

 

 

 

 

Last edited by Paul Kallus

I have been reading that a lot of people are concerned about what the future hold for many reasons - the hobby, competition, prince increases, support, World events, etc.  Yes, all valid concerns.  Though, yesterday evening, Steve Nelson (Mr. Muffin’s Trains) sent out an email that makes a few good points.

I think we need to take this event and see where it leads.  In the coming months, a lot can change, hopefully for the better.  Myself, having just gotten back into O-scale a few years ago, owe a lot to my LHS and MTH.  I have locomotives on order in the 2020v1 catalog that I want to own and run that, though released in years past, were previously hard to find (N&W 611).  I am not cancelling my order, and, with that, I haven’t lost hope.

While I know we (the entire world) is in uncertain at times, it has always been uncertain.  US and World events change constantly at the drop of a hat.  Despite all of this, I am going to continue to move forward with my hobby that I enjoy and I plan (optimistically) to see MTH, DCS, and O-scale continue to move forward also.

Last edited by Rich Melvin

Been an avid MTH operator for the last 13 years and this really shocked me. Not sure where this will end up but I'm sure this puts a few more than myself in a state of waiting for what's next. Working on a new layout and I do have a lot of MTH stuff (ie: locos, rolling, lights building...) but was planning on more to finish a rather large personal layout. Hope someone or company can take over the business and keep things rolling. Good luck to Mike. Feeling a little sad for myself and the hobby also.

Congrats to Mike, and Well Done!  Cheers!

How to value the enterprise, so it could potentially continue with a different owner?

  1. Tooling owned by China manufacturer?  Any of it owned by MTH - I have no idea.
  2. Non-standard(?) electronics (but excellent).  Neither TMCC/Legacy or DCC?  Dealing with electronics and upgrades means deep pockets and commitment.
  3. Building already sold, so a new building is needed.
  4. Commitments with China manufactures have to be renegotiated (probably higher, due to risk with a new enterprise).
  5. Advertising cost, negotiations with new vendors?
  6. What is MTH sales, and future projections to justify the return on investment?

Sounds like a tough proposition.   Yeah, perhaps Menards might take over some of the Railking, and perhaps even put in DCC/Conventional in those locos.  Perhaps Lionel would be interested in a few items, and put in TMCC electronics.

Wow!  MTH will be missed, the innovation was important to uplift the O-gauge hobby.

Last edited by Ken-Oscale

This is certainly a sad development for the Hobby. In echo of many others, MTH is a big reason I rediscovered 3 rail O. My great concern at the moment is with the future of DCS, particularly the WIFI app. Without future updates, the app will eventually become obsolete as operating systems advance. Glad I held onto my remotes.

There were so many things that would not have been offered except for MTH: Mallets, Subways, BIG transformers, all those accessories, a control system that was upgradable, and so much more. Though I only run conventional, my Railking Challenger and Z4000 are the most prized items of the modern era in my collection. 

As has been hoped by others here, maybe Menards will be able to make some of Mike's trains, if only the Bantam line for starter sets.

I hope all his employees find success and security in the future in this day and age.

Seems like i remember the A C  Gilbert Company demise in the 60's and almost 60 years  flyer by Gilbert and flyer by Lionel are still here in abundance. Today most big collectors and operators who own 20 to a hundred engines and are old like me dying and dying out daily at a time when demand is low Mth like  Gilbert will always be hear.  The only problem problem is parts and repair but the secondary market will solve that. Happy retirement Mike, oh what a great ride you give thank you so much and enjoy your new world.

Last edited by Doug-Sr

One of our other hobbies is old houses, so here's something to consider from a similar situation: about a decade or so ago the premier art wallpaper company that replicated historic designs and designed new patterns in the historic style made a similar announcement. Bruce Bradbury, the owner of Bradbury & Bradbury Art Wallpaper, decided it was time to retire and announced the closure of the company. He allowed so many months for new orders to come in and be produced and then it would be over. A couple of months after the announcement, he announced that an employee (or group of employees, I can't remember) had come forward and offered to buy the company. Fast forward to today, Bradbury & Bradbury is still the premier historic wallpaper company to us old house freaks, and their continued success has spawned a few small, cottage-industry type competitors.

Maybe that will happen here. Like B&B, there's a thriving, well-liked company ready for it's next chapter.

Wow this is something I've never expect!! Mike Wolfe is a great guy talked to him at York a few times and he was really nice to talk too. I hope Mike had a great retirement and hopefully either the employees buy him out or the company is taken over by someone else, I have quite a few MTH trains and I love them! I'm not a one brand guy but MTH was always a strong competitor to Lionel (something we always need) I hope the best for them in the future. 

My best wishes to Mike Wolf whatever the future brings. I agree with the sentiment expresses here that he is in many ways a modern Joshua Lionel Cowen.

One thing I haven't seen speculation on is what the future holds for him. Mike is pretty young (60) and has a legendary work ethic. It's hard to see him playing golf all day. Who knows, maybe after a well-deserved rest, he will start dabbling in some new, less ambitious toy train related adventure. 

@Gpritch posted:

Why not? If you like it, buy it. enjoy it.  Not sure if we can expect everything to last forever. 

Fair enough. I was on the fence about a locomotive from the most recent catalog. If it was something I just have to have, I would probably still buy it. Also, my mind set was about locomotives. There's no reason to not buy rolling stock or accessories.

Now I'm pondering my DCS equipment. I have an original TIU and handheld remote. I also have a new Wi-Fi + TIU. If the new TIU dies, then I'm back to the original and no Wi-Fi. If the Wi-Fi dies, then I'm back to the original handheld remote.

There's already a shortage of DCS control devices on the market.

Post

OGR Publishing, Inc., 1310 Eastside Centre Ct, Suite 6, Mountain Home, AR 72653
800-980-OGRR (6477)
www.ogaugerr.com

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