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old issue new update need help and or thoughts on whats really wrong.

 

the cylinder smoke feature if I plug connector at the printed circuit board I get a dead short. I get no cab flashes!

 

I checked both smoke motors using 9 volt battery they run and the main smoke unit functions just fine.

so originally it was thought that the smoke element was bad so I removed that smoke element.

 

I plugged both aux smoke and main smoke plugs into smoke unit board and placed engine on the track both smoke switches are in the on position so powered up track and engine immediately powers up I have not addressed it using the cab-2!

 

so I turn the aux smoke switch to off and power track up again same thing engine powers up in conventional.

 

so I remove the connector from the smoke unit board and now when track powered up the engine remains quiet until I use cab-2 to address it and powers up as it should all features working except for the aux smoke feature as it shouldn't due to the plug not connected to smoke unit board.

 

so how is this aux smoke unit creating a dead short even though the switch for it is turned off isn't off off?

 

can I bypass the switch by joining the 2 wires to see if switch is bad or is there another way to check it? or is there something else at play here?

 

this engine has been to lionel for smoke unit issues since new am tired of paying shipping to get same results a few months after repaired and all they did at the time was replace smoke elements and batting for those issues.

 

as a FYI that tubing that connects the steam cylinders to aux smoke unit opening if your tired of it not staying on use a small zip tie around both ends mine stay connected now even when smoke unit circuit board is removed from the smoke unit bowl assembly.

 

thanks for any help on this.

 

Last edited by StPaul
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The smoke unit shares some of the circuits even with the aux unplugged..  This is in my opinion from working on these engines before and your smoke board  unit pcb has a short in it (the one that the elements screw to)..  I would remove the main element and see if it still does it.. Also look at the wires and plugs for problems ... Also make sure you plugged them in the right spots  .. The main plug even though there the same plugs on the duel smoke unit it gives some power to both units on the s3...While the s3 and visionline challenger share a lot of the same smoke unit parts the smoke element Pcb isn't one of them. I found this out plugging a single unit into the main plug and it screamed .
Last edited by jojofry

okay I found what I think is one issue with smoke unit circuit board. at front right corner is a screw with a molded in washer under it was part of the copper trace that the black coating was missing so I made a washer out of square foam tape backing now the engine remains dead until powered up using cab-2.

 

the smoke unit works like it should but nothing from the cylinder aux unit.

 

so I swapped the connectors so main smoke connector now powers the aux smoke element upon pushing on cylinder steam effect button smoke comes billowing out of the smoke stack!

 

the main smoke stack with the aux connector is not functioning at all.

 

so put connectors back as they were originally and now main smoke stack is working but the Aux smoke feature is not.

 

so I have verified that both smoke elements and fan motors are working.

 

so what is DOA that with the correct connector attached to the aux input on circuit board?

 

is there an issue with the main board that no matter where that one connector gets plugged into nothing seems to get power.

 

of the 4 wires in that harness which color of wire is hot and common so I can use meter to see if power is at the connector?

 

I have resolved the aux smoke feature.
the washer made out of foam tape backing cured the short.
the other 2 issues one being a decayed hose from smoke unit to cylinder elbow.
I went to auto zone and had them get smallest vacuum hose to fit elbow snugly that cured tgat issue.
second was an unknown blockage at elbow on aux side of circuit board.
I cleared that blockage and blew the new line out as well had some smoke fluid come out.
all is working again. I would gave never thought that screw touching the copper of track would have been the issue all along!
Now onto my shay it has cherry switch issue and parts are in the mail today.
thanks for the help.
Originally Posted by J Daddy:

St Paul, that s great news. Could you share a picture of this infamous screw?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

   there ya go the flat washer is an integral part of the screw.  not sure how it scraped the finish off of the printed circuit board but it did and the flat washer area acted as a dead short.

 

now if I can figure out how to keep the elbow in its hole under smoke unit all will be good. right now I am using a 1" piece of the old tubing to lock it into place.

 

 

hope the picture helps you.

gunrunnerjohn.... normally I see the small headed screws on circuit boards for smoke units.

 

the screw I showed lays over the trace by a 1/32" when looking at the board you can actually see the round trace.

 

what do they coat the tops with on these circuit boards.

 

the washer I made seems to be doing the trick so far and I used engine black paint to cover the copper trace on that board as well.

 

 

Last edited by StPaul

The solder mask on PCB's is not designed to withstand much force, the friction of tightening a screw on it will surely strip it away.  It's really just there for the soldering step to keep things from shorting during the assembly of the board.  Any time you have a screw that will overlap the traces, there should be insulation supplied.

 

I can't imagine why they used that screw on a smoke unit, there seems to be no good reason.

Is it possible the molded in screw washer is out of spec and is too large hence it shorted the trace out? If it was 2/32' smaller would it not create a short?
 
Originally Posted by StPaul:

gunrunnerjohn.... normally I see the small headed screws on circuit boards for smoke units.

 

the screw I showed lays over the trace by a 1/32" when looking at the board you can actually see the round trace.

 

what do they coat the tops with on these circuit boards.

 

the washer I made seems to be doing the trick so far and I used engine black paint to cover the copper trace on that board as well.

 

 

 

okay this is amusing not!  after reassembly I started this engine up the main smoke unit working fine also the aux unit has smoke coming out of all 4 holes in cylinders!

 

I then ran engine around the inner loop of track at a slow speed the main stack and the aux unit are both smoking in sync to the chuff sound!!

 

if I turn switch to off for aux unit it stops emitting smoke from cylinders.

 

now mind you it is rather cool seeing smoke coming out of cylinders but it didnt do this before.

 

also with the engines body off and both smoke units turned on I can push the button for cylinder smoke and the aux fan turns on and goes off when released.

 

anybody have any thoughts on this of what the issue might be a bad smoke unit PCB due to that screw hitting that trace causing the short so I would get 3 blinks of cab light.

 

I have tried setting switch to program and re adding the engine ID # no joy.

 

I have also used the R button on cab-2 no help there either or is there another set of reset codes to try?

 

Last edited by StPaul

all is fixed I removed circuit board and looked at the gasket the center of it it had a bend so the chambers not sealed one to the other.

 

so I worked it back to a position it would stay in so as to seal the middle portion of smoke chamber. as that is how smoke stack was feeding the aux smoke chamber.

 

Thanks for the help and Ideas on this issue from start to finish.

 

Strange I haven't run into that issue of fluid on track from the smoke cylinder aux feature.
now maybe if one over fills then it will blow fluid out instead of smoke!

But I always have a gallon of denatured alcohol handy and a converted swifter style holder with 5' handle no trouble cleaning track on my 10'×25' layout.
and if I remember correctly some rails are impregnated with grease.
so the aux feature would make it prototypical.
I never had this issue either.
 
Originally Posted by ironlake2:

Now turn off the aux smoke feature as ot puts fluid on the track when it is on and soon you locos will not have any good pulling power, even my very heavy lionel ac 9 slipped on pulling 8 passenger cars.  A real ***** to clean all the rails of a 12 foot by 24 foot layout and all the track to the point of dry rails.

 

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