Mixing steam locomotives with streamlined passenger cars?

Nope, not fantasy at all,….let’s look at the NYC as an example….yes, in the beginning shrouded steam locomotives pulled the fanciest of named varnish. As time went on, and costs needed to be cut, the shrouding on these steamers was stripped away for servicing, from wrecks, or whatever reason,…in an attempt to cut costs, the shrouding was simply discarded and scrapped as a way to keep revenue coming in,…the streamlined cars were built as streamlined cars, not shrouded, so what you wound up with was a partially shrouded, or in a lot of cases, completely un-shrouded steam locomotives pulling completely streamlined ( and sometimes mixed ) consists,….

Pat

During the transition from heavyweight to streamlined cars, non-streamlined steam locomotives often pulled streamlined cars both in full time service and sometimes as substitute power for diesels during that transition as well.

@GG1 4877 posted:

During the transition from heavyweight to streamlined cars, non-streamlined steam locomotives often pulled streamlined cars both in full time service and sometimes as substitute power for diesels during that transition as well.

Correct. Look at the western railroads like Southern Pacific (OK, so their 4-8-4 steam locomotives were semi-streamlined), the Union Pacific, and the Santa Fe. All had modern, light weight "streamlined" passenger equipment, hauled by steam locomotives.

You can readily find B&O publicity photos of the Capitol Limited streamlined 4-6-2 engines pulling heavyweights, and the unshrouded George Washinton pulling streamliners. If the real railroads did it, so can you.

Look at some Pennsy videos in You Tube, you will see Steam and Diesels pulling a mixture of Heavyweight and Streamline Passenger cars.My Premiere K4 has 8 Heavyweights and 2 Streamline Railking 60 Footers behind it now.

@artyoung posted:

You can readily find B&O publicity photos of the Capitol Limited streamlined 4-6-2 engines pulling heavyweights, and the unshrouded George Washinton pulling streamliners. If the real railroads did it, so can you.

Thanks. Great point. I'm thinking about a set of 15" silver streamliners behind a B&O P47 4-6-2, so you've given me support. Thanks!

I do  "I run what you want, when I want".

I'm not a rivet counter so if I like it I buy it and run it.

Yes; I’m with @harmonyards on this one.  As for-profit organizations, the NYC put whatever would get the job done to get the ESE or 20th Century across the road safely. Including one or two non-streamlined Hudsons on the point. In fact, I run my 20th Century with a K-Line 5343 or 5344.

thanks!

-Mario

Not only streamlined cars, but gallery cars in commuter service.  It's not an excursion...

Rusty

@raising4daughters posted:

Thanks. Great point. I'm thinking about a set of 15" silver streamliners behind a B&O P47 4-6-2, so you've given me support. Thanks!

Also, the B&O Royal Blue often had the non-streamlined Pacific pulling it in lieu of the P7D that the publicity photos showed.

For other specific trains, PRR used standard K4s on the 1938 Broadway Limited during its Fleet of Modernism era.  By the time PRR got its first E7 passenger diesels in 1945, they were repainting the FOM fleet.  The streamlined K4 looked great for publicity, but the shops preferred the non-shrouded ones.

It's funny for me personally.  I am putting together a heavyweight train to go behind my Burlington E5s.   Three GGD cars so far and more as I find them.

Pennsy had only 5 streamlined steamers - one full streamliner, and 4 with less shrouding.     However, they had a bunch of name trains that were streamlined starting the late 1930s.    Steamers had to be serviced, lubed, and whatnot after each trip, so they often did not return on the revrse of the same train.    So just given the numbers, lots of unstreamlined steamers would have pulled Pennsy passenger trains from the Late 1930s into the diesel era.   Pennsy did not start getting passenger diesels until the late 1940s and still ran steam to the mid 50s.    The T1 4-4-4-4 did not even enter service  until the mid - 1940s and served pretty much exclusively as passenger engines.     this was Pennsy's version of a modern 4-8-4.   

An interesting one was the reading crusader.    It did have at least one streamlined steamer.   I don't know if it  ever ran with unstreamlined ones, but I would guess it did.     However, to save time at end terminals, they had 2 round end observation cars built for it.    It had one on each end, so it did not have to be turned to have one at the back.     the tender of the streamlined steamer had the back end built with an overhang to blend over the streamlined observation car.

Another aside, the B&O built a streamlined train by shrouding and converting heaviweights.    I think it was the train from Cincinnati to Detroit but not sure.    They may have done other trains.    This was  pulled by steamers too at first.

Excellent, illuminating thread!

This inspires me to mix heavyweights and streamlined passenger cars behind both steam and diesel engines.

Here is a related question: were streamlined passenger cars ever pulled by 10 wheeler steamers in the real world?

I think not; what do you think?

Arnold

@Arnold D. Cribari posted:

Excellent, illuminating thread!

This inspires me to mix heavyweights and streamlined passenger cars behind both steam and diesel engines.

Here is a related question: were streamlined passenger cars ever pulled by 10 wheeler steamers in the real world?

I think not; what do you think?

Arnold

My guess is not likely. I have a WBB ten-wheeler that doesn't look as prototypical as your Legacy version from another thread. I once researched the lineage of steam, and it seems like the 10-wheeler came in the 19th century right after the 4-4-0 General from 4-4-0 to 4-6-0. Then, to extend the fire box, they put trailing wheels on creating the 4-6-2. Easy to see where it went from there as the need for power and speed increased.

I think the 10-wheeler is a very early 20th century engine pre-streamliner, but others here know a lot more history than me.

And let's not forget, several of the MTH steam engines have the PFA sound files that relate to passenger car service.

Ron

@raising4daughters posted:

My guess is not likely. I have a WBB ten-wheeler that doesn't look as prototypical as your Legacy version from another thread. I once researched the lineage of steam, and it seems like the 10-wheeler came in the 19th century right after the 4-4-0 General from 4-4-0 to 4-6-0. Then, to extend the fire box, they put trailing wheels on creating the 4-6-2. Easy to see where it went from there as the need for power and speed increased.

I think the 10-wheeler is a very early 20th century engine pre-streamliner, but others here know a lot more history than me.

Well, there is this thing...  And that appears to be a streamlined car on the right edge of the photo.

Rusty

The Reading had heavyweights with clerestory roofs through the 1930's. After which they went to streamlined turtle back roofs (recent Lionel and GGD cars). These were often pulled by 4-6-0 camelbacks as well as 4-6-2. These cars lasted well into the Diesel era. In fact, one clerestory roof diner and business car also lasted into the diesel era. Later some of the turtleback cars were modernized (SGL cars). These were pulled by both Pacifics and FP7s. Of course, the Crusader was pulled by both Pacifics and FP7s, too. I've also seen video of FTs pulling Reading passenger trains.

Check out YouTube videos of your favorite railroad. You might be surprised what combinations you may see.

@Arnold D. Cribari posted:

Excellent, illuminating thread!

This inspires me to mix heavyweights and streamlined passenger cars behind both steam and diesel engines.

Here is a related question: were streamlined passenger cars ever pulled by 10 wheeler steamers in the real world?

I think not; what do you think?

Arnold

Again, I’ll use the Central Proper as an example, ( I can’t speak of other roads, as I don’t know their practices)  ….the F12’s ( most commonly known 10 wheelers known to most of this group )  were bumped down as motive power grew in size & performance, competition was the name of the game, and soon the 10 wheeler just didn’t have the “ right stuff” to pull the named trains anymore,…so they would have been bumped from that service to lessor roles, ….until they found themselves pulling commuters and locals especially up the Put-Put where the pace of railroading was a little slower, and often older equipment could be found on that division,……..10 wheelers were bumped by the K class Pacifics, then  the K class was bumped by the J class Hudsons, etc,..etc,….by the time the streamlines came to being, the old F12’s and the F class were long off the top trains…….HOWEVER, it wouldn’t surprise me one bit to have seen a single, or even double, retired from service streamlined car be to be condemned to commuter duty as luxury rail travel waned, but commuter service was still pretty profitable……some F’s survived all the way to end of steam, …so it isn’t an un-possibility…….just wouldn’t be a “ streamlined “ train set,….just the odd car or two needed to be pressed into service to get folks to and from work, etc,…

Pat