Mobilgas Tank Cars

oscaletrains posted:

Just out of curiousity, has anyone actualy seen a real photo of a real tank car with the red flying Pegasus on it?

Unfortunately no photographic evidence has ever surfaced to indicate Mobilgas cars were painted with the Pegasus logo.

There were a number of discussions on Steam Era Freight Cars and experts up to and including the late Richard Hendrickson had uncovered no evidence of any cars being painted as such. 

Protocraft does offer a set of Mobilgas decals in black and white (SVX-1) which accurately letter a red AC&F tank car.

That's what I thought.  Looking through old Walthers and Champ decal booklets of decades gone by you would think that the decals listed back then would be pretty much correct, since after all, the people making them would have been around to see the real cars or know others who had or whatever, but in reality, I now tend to suspect that fantasy decal sets were probably made up and offered for sale along with the ones that were prototypical...?

Rule292 posted:

oscaletrains posted:

Just out of curiousity, has anyone actualy seen a real photo of a real tank car with the red flying Pegasus on it?

Unfortunately no photographic evidence has ever surfaced to indicate Mobilgas cars were painted with the Pegasus logo.

In the same vein, I have not been able to locate any prototype photo's of a green Sinclair tank car with the Dinosaur logo on it.  Plenty of model photo's, but no prototype photo's.

Rusty

Indeed.  But then again, we obviously do not have a historic photo of every single tank car that ever existed.

And also, not that there are not already untold numbers of O Scale rolling stock that is incorrectly painted(Atlas comes to mind) when they take a certain model car and paint it for every railroad there was, even when that road did not actually have that particular car, but that is a whole other can o worms.

SCALE 2 RAIL FORUM

I have a fairly thick book on tank cars. IF (note the capital letters) I can dig it up, I'll see what is there. If you like the flying horses and oil-a-saurus, I don't think the prototype police will give you more than 20 or 30 years. Sometimes I think the need for absolute prototypical perfection gets in the way of "enjoyment". Don't get me wrong,I'm not advocating a freight double headed by Thomas the Tank Engine and the Hogwarts express, but it never will be and doesn't have to be absolutely perfect.

Simon

Good point

I agree with everything said here yeh, Simon makes sense again!

Sooooo.. there are four really nice Atlas Mobilgas 2-rail tankers (no pegasus) on the bay at the moment I'd buy them myself but I just bought a locomotive off one of the OGR listed advertisers so that's my budget gone for a couple of weeks.   I will buy a couple another day when I'm flush again I like em.  Roo.

Roo posted:

I agree with everything said here yeh, Simon makes sense again!

Sooooo.. there are four really nice Atlas Mobilgas 2-rail tankers (no pegasus) on the bay at the moment I'd buy them myself but I just bought a locomotive off one of the OGR listed advertisers so that's my budget gone for a couple of weeks.   I will buy a couple another day when I'm flush again I like em.  Roo.

Silver with red lettering. I have seen B&W photos of the older dark cars(red probably) with black outlined white or maybe silver lettering.  I have seen B&W photos of dark cars(black probably but maybe red) with bold light colored(probably white) lettering. But I have yet to see a B&W photo of a Mobilgas tank car painted light with dark lettering, flying horses or not. Frankly, I view ANYTHING Atlas paints with a large amount of skepticism.

Oops, found one...

Oh, hot digs! I am a tank car freak, and about to apply special white Mobilgas decals on a newly built Lobaugh tank.  Long story - later.

Another long story - just got back from Big Spring, rescuing a friend with an alternator problem.  I forgot to write down where I saw it, but somewhere out there is a real double track dogbone layout.  Lordsburg has a genuine oval with some extra diagonal track, but I have seen lots of prototype ovals - never before a dogbone.

Oh - and Simon, if you find it, give us a cite.  I would love to add a tank car book to my library.

oscaletrains posted:

Roo posted:

I agree with everything said here yeh, Simon makes sense again!

Sooooo.. there are four really nice Atlas Mobilgas 2-rail tankers (no pegasus) on the bay at the moment I'd buy them myself but I just bought a locomotive off one of the OGR listed advertisers so that's my budget gone for a couple of weeks.   I will buy a couple another day when I'm flush again I like em.  Roo.

Silver with red lettering. I have seen B&W photos of the older dark cars(red probably) with black outlined white or maybe silver lettering.  I have seen B&W photos of dark cars(black probably but maybe red) with bold light colored(probably white) lettering. But I have yet to see a B&W photo of a Mobilgas tank car painted light with dark lettering, flying horses or not. Frankly, I view ANYTHING Atlas paints with a large amount of skepticism.

You would probably know more than me, and not debating you, but I always thought that in the early days of their modern freight car line (not back in the 70's) Atlas advertised that all their paint schemes were authentic has that now gone out the door and anything goes? Roo.

oscaletrains posted:

Oops, found one...

 

Beautiful.  The beauty of internet discussions!     

There were some neat late 60's and 70's freight cars and paint jobs and that  is one of them.   I have to look but I think that picture is in the softbound Henderson "Classic Freight Cars, Tank Cars Volume 2" book.   Forgot all about it since it's beyond my modeling era.

Not too many colorful tank cars in the steam era that I model.   I did take the liberty and procure one of the WA Drake 6000 gallon  two compartment "two dome" tank cars in Cities Service emerald green even though there isn't much evidence that there were green Cities Service tank cars and the evidence that does exist points to a two compartment 4,000 gallon car.  

Bob,    Try  ronsbooks.com  (letters are lower case) I think the one I got is by Edward Kaminski

Tank Cars American Car and Foundry 1865 to 1955 Hardcover 272 pages 514 photos $60.50 free shipping

Just search on the word:     Kaminski

Simon

Thank you!  I love their books - I shall get one!  They do great SP books.

Rule292 posted:

Not too many colorful tank cars in the steam era that I model.   I did take the liberty and procure one of the WA Drake 6000 gallon  two compartment "two dome" tank cars in Cities Service emerald green even though there isn't much evidence that there were green Cities Service tank cars and the evidence that does exist points to a two compartment 4,000 gallon car.  

Champion Oil/Sterling Fuels was a nice shade of green. At least one of those was done in the Hobbyhill run. I've seen an image of an actual car on the Net. That car was a single dome 8,000 gallon job, as was the Hobbyhill version.

Simon

I guess for me it is a matter of how bad it rubs me the wrong way.  Like, a model tank car painted Mobilgas with flying horses doesn't bother me near as much as say, a wagontop boxcar painted and lettered Northern Pacific or ATSF would.

Roo posted:

oscaletrains posted:

Roo posted:

I agree with everything said here yeh, Simon makes sense again!

Sooooo.. there are four really nice Atlas Mobilgas 2-rail tankers (no pegasus) on the bay at the moment I'd buy them myself but I just bought a locomotive off one of the OGR listed advertisers so that's my budget gone for a couple of weeks.   I will buy a couple another day when I'm flush again I like em.  Roo.

Silver with red lettering. I have seen B&W photos of the older dark cars(red probably) with black outlined white or maybe silver lettering.  I have seen B&W photos of dark cars(black probably but maybe red) with bold light colored(probably white) lettering. But I have yet to see a B&W photo of a Mobilgas tank car painted light with dark lettering, flying horses or not. Frankly, I view ANYTHING Atlas paints with a large amount of skepticism.

You would probably know more than me, and not debating you, but I always thought that in the early days of their modern freight car line (not back in the 70's) Atlas advertised that all their paint schemes were authentic has that now gone out the door and anything goes? Roo.

A good example, they make 40' reefers. But painting them orange and lettering for SFRD does not make them correct for any reefer the Santa Fe ever had. Those all had a 5' side door opening rather than the normal opening width of other reefers. I certainly understand that they can SELL them and make money doing it, and lots of people will buy them and not really care one way or the other, but it rubs me the wrong way for some reason when they pass off cars painted up like that without being up front about it.

I never cared for the wide doors, but like the ATSF reefer paint scheme.  I wouldn't hesitate to repaint an Athearn or All Nation.

I think some things at Atlas passed on with Jim Weaver. Some of the fantasy colors are driven by the 3 rail side. If the car is correct, it can always be repainted if it totally offends....or just don't buy it if you're not sure.

Simon

Back to Mobilgas:  I sold my one prewar Lobaugh to Art Hayes, but saved photos.  It was easily my favorite tank car, and Art only got it by offering about five times what it was worth.  We are pretty sure it was a catalog photo model, since their tendency was to letter such things one side only.  Note white with black outline - we think that most Mobilgas cars were silver with black outline, which is also attractive.

Art and I are now in possession of white and black decals to duplicate Lobaugh appearance - we are reproducing models, not real tank cars.  Here is the Lobaugh:

And here is a postwar Lobaugh in silver:

I like the white better.

Now an iPad shot of a 1950s Lobaugh kit about to get decals.  Note the pleasing Scarlet color - Duplicolor Flame Red PR 4.  As close as I could come to the 1939 red.

More info than most of you need - three versions of Lobaugh tanks, and at least three lengths and diameters.  Prewar were tubes with rivets on ends only, and sand cast bolster ends.  Postwar were rivetless tanks, built-up brass ends. And finally, 1950s versions are wrapped riveted sheets.

All versions need a riveted apron under each dome - up to the builder, and seldom done.

I have a number of unbuilt Lobaugh tankers, good info to have.  Aprons should be easy these days with Archer rivets, primer the car, apply Archer decal rivets, paint and decal as usual.

I make the aprons out of .020 brass.  Looks pretty good.  Photo when I get the decals on.

bob2 - there can never be enough information :-) thanks for sharing

I have a number of unbuilt Lobaugh tankers, good info to have. 

I have three - two of them are pre-war 10000 gal triple dome, complete with decals, but no trucks.  I would trade one of them for most of the pieces of a 12,000 gal prewar tank.  I would trade the other for a 16,200 gal tank.  One has Shell decals, the other Deep Rock.  I'd happily pay shipping both ways.

As above, you can tell the pre-wars - a row of rivets at each end, and no other rivet details.  the 16,200 tank is a bit unusual - photo below.  I did not identify it as Lobaugh at first - but it is in the 1937 catalog!  Graceline trucks - I ought to fix that.

Oh - the 10,000 gal tanks are 1 3/4" dia, and longer than the others.  The 12,000 gal tanks are 2", and the 16,200 gal tanks are 2 1/4" dia.  All are 22 ga. brass tube.

bob2 posted:

As above, you can tell the pre-wars - a row of rivets at each end, and no other rivet details.  the 16,200 tank is a bit unusual - photo below.  I did not identify it as Lobaugh at first - but it is in the 1937 catalog!  Graceline trucks - I ought to fix that.

 

Just curious....what is the diameter of the tank and the length of the car, above in inches please?

Thanks!

Simon

bob2 posted:

 ...snip... the other Deep Rock ...snip... 

Please post a photo of that, Deep Rock is one of my favorite tanker names. TIA

Simon - that is a 2 1/4" diameter tank.  It is at the airport, so I shall have to measure the length tomorrow.  I think it is under 7".

Dave - sure.  I have several.  Have you ever heard of the "Deep Rock doctrine?"

bob2 posted:

Dave - sure.  I have several.  Have you ever heard of the "Deep Rock doctrine?"

No, I have not.

In 1939, in a Supreme Court case involving Deep Rock, it was determined that a shareholder making "loans" to an undercapitalized corporation would be after all other creditors when the time came for paying folks back.  So now on to more fun things:  The one on the left went to "Maroon" of MTJ fame.  It is one of those International deals, last sold for $600.  Worth $35.  The one on the right is post-war Lobaugh, and I promise, I had nothing to do with the decals.  They should have been applied over glossy paint.  Someday, a re-do.

I think I have others - will look tomorrow.

bob2 posted:

The one on the left went to "Maroon" of MTJ fame.  It is one of those International deals, last sold for $600.  Worth $35.  The one on the right is post-war Lobaugh, and I promise, I had nothing to do with the decals.  They should have been applied over glossy paint.  Someday, a re-do.

I think I have others - will look tomorrow.

Thank you. Some years back I had a friend decal six Weaver modern tankers in the Deep Rock; they looked great but unfortunately I have not seen them in years. They got packed away before my previous move.

Bob,

On the single dome car, are the supports for the tank leaning to the left?

Simon

They might be.  I will have to look at the actual car.  They are simple castings, soldered to a formed sheet metal bolster pair; symmetry not guaranteed.  I personally don't build many freight cars - I have built just enough Lobaugh cars to prove to myself that I can do it.

Thanks for ID ing that Red Bob, that will same me some trouble in experimentation.  I'll practice on some old tinplate 2654 cars I have..

What is a good match for the Yellow on the Shell tank cars?

Yellow is extremely problematic.  For Shell, I would say that UP Armor yellow is ok, but even named colors of yellow are different since they banned chromium.  I cannot match my Ford Commercial Yellow from 1980, even with the factory formula.  You should see how badly messed up the old standard Army-Navy yellows are.

bob2 posted:

Oh - and Simon, if you find it, give us a cite.  I would love to add a tank car book to my library.

Classic freight car series Vol#2 tank cars.

American Car and Foundry 1899-1999 by Edward S. Kaminski. 

Tank cars and more!

bob2 posted:

Yellow is extremely problematic.  For Shell, I would say that UP Armor yellow is ok, but even named colors of yellow are different since they banned chromium.  I cannot match my Ford Commercial Yellow from 1980, even with the factory formula.  You should see how badly messed up the old standard Army-Navy yellows are.

I found these on line from some full scale petrol restore guys.  Actually looks like it might be a pretty good match for a 30's Lobaugh or other Shell tank car.  These guys were arguing over different shades depending on the era of the piece.  This one I think was suggested to be for 1930's lubritorium stuff.

Yeah I loved that Chrome Yellow on the wings of prewar Army fighters and such.  I know what you mean about colors, it seems similar with my Rangoon Red, hard to match.  That said, I do understand the pigment materials are the problems, and the Chromium as a pigment is a big one!

Reds are less problematic.  I have two 1964/66 Mustang convertibles - both close to Rangoon red.  Happy.

Matching the Stearman AN Yellow wings is a serious problem.  I have to mix my own.

Here are the Deep Rocks - cleaned up a bit.  No, I didn't build or paint them - the blemishes on the top of the triple dome are from age and maybe fly spots.  I got some of the decal defects with Solvaset - lots of Solvaset!

Hello Tank car folks ....ok is this a Lobaugh?...it has Lobaugh trucks ......what is the best method to lay peeling decals back down?

Thank.you 

Cheers Carey

Carey Williams posted:

Hello Tank car folks ....ok is this a Lobaugh?...it has Lobaugh trucks ......what is the best method to lay peeling decals back down?

Thank.you 

Cheers Carey

Don't know what it is or is not, but repairing the lettering leaves you with only a few choices. Leave it as is. Or remove the loose decal parts and mix paint to match and hand paint what is missing(I have seen people do this and was amazed at how good it looked).  If you wanted to keep it as original as possible but look nice, remove the loose decal parts, clean the car with soapy water, spray the car with clear to seal what is left, and then try to find another set of the same decals to reapply over the top of the old ones(Decals almost have to be Walthers or Champ?).

Or you could just strip the car, add some detail, and repaint it...

I think it is a Thomas.  Re- stick the decal with Solvaset. Be very careful, because Solvaset will melt the decal as quickly as it sets it.

But you can find new decals - those are Walthers, and still available if you know where to look, and Protocraft has a really good set.  And I have (maybe) white ones with black outline.

I finally finished my new Lobaugh - photo above.  It has a few blemishes, but I am now happy.  I may do one more.

Thomas tank cars are nice, but not nearly as rugged as Lobaugh.  The wrapper is .010, and they use a lot of die cast parts.  I usually reinforce the tank with brass tube inside.

Bob Anson just authorized me to mention that he did the decals.  I had been reluctant to let on, because I thought he didn't want to do too much of this stuff.

Bob has an Alps printer and really good decal paper, and is willing to take on a few projects.  He did these from photographs, and you can see how nice.  If you need custom decals, Bob is an excellent source.

e2picasso at yahoo dot com to get his attention.

I am dangerous when I have a rattle can close by.  Grabbed this thing out of the Decathlon hangar, brought it home, and cleaned and hosed it with Flame Red.

It is a scratch tank with Walthers dome and underframe.  Bob made two widths of Black outline, so I used the thicker outline here - I was just decorating, not trying to reproduce an old Lobaugh.  For minimal effort it turned out well.

Still dangerous!  This one is an aluminum MiLoco tank.  Needs ladders. It is 17/64, so it matches the 12,000 gal Lobaugh to its left.

bob2 posted:

Still dangerous!  This one is an aluminum MiLoco tank.  Needs ladders. It is 17/64, so it matches the 12,000 gal Lobaugh to its left.

So it is supposed to be a 10,000 gal tanker but in 17/64" scale?  That's handy!

Bump!  Here are the three finished “flame red” cars.  A fourth gets decals tonight - silver Protocraft decals.

That aluminum thing on the right is an unfinished MiLoco.  I may polish it.

@bob2 posted:

Back to Mobilgas:  I sold my one prewar Lobaugh to Art Hayes, but saved photos.  It was easily my favorite tank car, and Art only got it by offering about five times what it was worth.  We are pretty sure it was a catalog photo model, since their tendency was to letter such things one side only.  Note white with black outline - we think that most Mobilgas cars were silver with black outline, which is also attractive.

Art and I are now in possession of white and black decals to duplicate Lobaugh appearance - we are reproducing models, not real tank cars.  Here is the Lobaugh:

I know this is an old post - but where did you get the Mobilgas decals?

Thanks

Jim

Bob Anson made the decals.