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Dear List ,

I received a email today from fellow O Scaler Attalee Taylor with attached 2 photos requesting any info on this company and if possible obtaining a copy of the plans for this kit.

I am confident some of the forum members can shed some light. Thank you. John

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Max Grey kits. I have one of the built-up SOO LINE sawtooth single sheathed cars. 

Absolutely gorgeous. It holds its own against modern brass though I think the Chooch car is just perfect.

Mine was built without a retainer valve which is the most glaring omission. 

I don't have it here so I can't post pictures but it does look nice. 

bob2 posted:

Mine are assembled, and easily worth twice what the best import is worth.  Note "engraved", not photo-etched.

Ain't what you said in your first post: "Heavy brass, deeply etched, put together without excess solder."

How much would you pay if you were trying to buy them from me? That's probably a better indication of value.

Add to that, quality will vary with the skill of the assembler. Maybe Sofue built yours and Aw Phooey did the next pair!

Simon

Last edited by Simon Winter
prrjim posted:

Bob2,

Your opinion is as good as anyone else's.     There is no problem with it.   I think a lot of the reaction is surprise more than negative.   

Did I see it stated that these parts were engraved vs etched?     That is interesting?

 

 

 

Actually, yes! It took a bit of looking, but it is stamped on box in the first of the two pics. That seems (to me) to be the only exceptional feature.

Simon

Last edited by Simon Winter
bob2 posted:

What, exactly, would you like from me?  I simply expressed an opinion.

Saying these cars are worth twice the nicest import/$800 is a pretty radical statement.

The fact that they are put together without excess solder has nothing to do with the kit and it's quality. That's the skill of the person that built it.

Any good PSC car is nicely assembled with gobs of details for half the price.

Just trying to figure out why you think they are so exceptional.

Maybe the $800 thing is why they called him "MAX"

Simon from Missouri

mark s posted:

Seem to recall these kits being made available in the early '70's.  Correct?  And were not from Max Gray......rather a chap from WI. Perhaps Arvid Anderson?

Don't know. But I do agree they were not Max Gray product. Max's O scale was imported under his name and his HO was under Metric Models. The first Max Gray models I saw were in New York when Herb Walters worked at Model Railroad Equipment Corporation. Believe that was 1955 which is when i got my first pieces of O scale equipment.

Last edited by rheil
Simon Winter posted:

Having looked at the auction piece, I can safely say I'd rather have a nice PSC car given the choice. I'm not into the "History" end of theses models, so no mystique there for me.

Simon

The kit is a master craftsman kit.   I know I don't have the metalworking skills to build it as it deserves to be built. 

With that said I think the Soo Line car I have is at least on the PSC WBM/FM models quality level.  The only other way to get the Soo Line sawtooth car is the Chooch resin kit and they go for $150+ when you can find them.   The Chooch resin kit is state of the art. 

The car is a unique and neat single sheathed boxcar prototype and worth having.  Just not certain of how many folks nowadays have the soldering and metalworking skills to build it up.

Last edited by Rule292
Rule292 posted:
Simon Winter posted:

Having looked at the auction piece, I can safely say I'd rather have a nice PSC car given the choice.

I might as well, but it's going to take a lot more money and it won't be any more finished that the kit will be once assembled.

I'm not into the "History" end of theses models, so no mystique there for me.

History is interesting, but building it is where it's at - putting it on a shelf (kit collectors ) to gather more dust...........is a waste of good fun.

Simon

The kit is a master craftsman kit.   I know I don't have the metalworking skills to build it as it deserves to be built. 

How do you know that w/o doing?  I've only ever had one kit fight me to an uneasy truce....LWS......but I do not let my lack of a skill set get in the way and just acquire the skills needed.......ok, I confess.  I still hate doing plumbing.........  

With that said I think the Soo Line car I have is at least on the PSC WBM/FM models quality level.  The only other way to get the Soo Line sawtooth car is the Chooch resin kit and they go for $150+ when you can find them.   The Chooch resin kit is state of the art.

It's not a trivial exercise to complete resin kit cars either.

The car is a unique and neat single sheathed boxcar prototype and worth having.  Just not certain of how many folks nowadays have the soldering and metalworking skills to build it up.

I just don't have the time.....but the fun value inherent in this is attractive.

I've never assembled an Arvid Anderson kit, but understand they can be a handful. I guess these MG kits are very similar to assemble? 

Not familiar with engraved brass parts, only engravings on jewelry. Does that mean the details are "machined" into flat or cast brass pieces?   These kits must have been the cats meow when they were 1st offered.

 

BH

 

 

Rule292 posted:
The kit is a master craftsman kit.   I know I don't have the metalworking skills to build it as it deserves to be built. 
 

Skills are one thing that can be learned. However, if you aren't already invested, having to pay for the equipment in order to do the job properly puts things into another dimension.

mwb posted:
Rule292 posted:
Simon Winter posted:

Having looked at the auction piece, I can safely say I'd rather have a nice PSC car given the choice.

I might as well, but it's going to take a lot more money and it won't be any more finished that the kit will be once assembled.

I'm not into the "History" end of theses models, so no mystique there for me.

History is interesting, but building it is where it's at - putting it on a shelf (kit collectors ) to gather more dust...........is a waste of good fun.

Simon

The kit is a master craftsman kit.   I know I don't have the metalworking skills to build it as it deserves to be built. 

How do you know that w/o doing?  I've only ever had one kit fight me to an uneasy truce....LWS......but I do not let my lack of a skill set get in the way and just acquire the skills needed.......ok, I confess.  I still hate doing plumbing.........  

With that said I think the Soo Line car I have is at least on the PSC WBM/FM models quality level.  The only other way to get the Soo Line sawtooth car is the Chooch resin kit and they go for $150+ when you can find them.   The Chooch resin kit is state of the art.

It's not a trivial exercise to complete resin kit cars either.

The car is a unique and neat single sheathed boxcar prototype and worth having.  Just not certain of how many folks nowadays have the soldering and metalworking skills to build it up.

I just don't have the time.....but the fun value inherent in this is attractive.

Big Jim posted:
Rule292 posted:
The kit is a master craftsman kit.   I know I don't have the metalworking skills to build it as it deserves to be built. 
 

Skills are one thing that can be learned. However, if you aren't already invested, having to pay for the equipment in order to do the job properly puts things into another dimension.

 Awwww, c'mon now... building brass models is so simple that teens in Asian countries can build models for Boo Rim.

I know from assembling Suydam tin models in the 1970's that I won't be building brass models from scratch or kit anytime soon.

BUT If I were independently wealthy I'd go to the owner of Boo Rim and ask to be hired on their assembly line just to learn the skill set that they have.  

 

 

Rule292 posted:
Awwww, c'mon now... building brass models is so simple that teens in Asian countries can build models for Boo Rim.

I know from assembling Suydam tin models in the 1970's that I won't be building brass models from scratch or kit anytime soon.

BUT If I were independently wealthy I'd go to the owner of Boo Rim and ask to be hired on their assembly line just to learn the skill set that they have.  

You are a buyer of O scale brass ='s independently wealthy; just go import some teens....

Rule292 posted:
Big Jim posted:
Rule292 posted:
The kit is a master craftsman kit.   I know I don't have the metalworking skills to build it as it deserves to be built. 
 

Skills are one thing that can be learned. However, if you aren't already invested, having to pay for the equipment in order to do the job properly puts things into another dimension.

 Awwww, c'mon now...building brass models is so simple that teens in Asian countries can build models for Boo Rim.

You drastically missed the point! 

Rule292 posted:
BUT If I were independently wealthy I'd go to the owner of Boo Rim and ask to be hired on their assembly line just to learn the skill set that they have.  

 

 

For those not independently wealthy, with a vocational school nearby could just sign up for a welding, metalworking course. Most of the instructors there are skilled in many forms of metal joining.

This:

T_1

Was turned into this.

T_2

Using only these.

T_Tools

Not by me. Maybe someday.

Pete

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Last edited by Norton
Rule292 posted:

The kit is a master craftsman kit.   I know I don't have the metalworking skills to build it as it deserves to be built. 

With that said I think the Soo Line car I have is at least on the PSC WBM/FM models quality level.  The only other way to get the Soo Line sawtooth car is the Chooch resin kit and they go for $150+ when you can find them.   The Chooch resin kit is state of the art. 

The car is a unique and neat single sheathed boxcar prototype and worth having.  Just not certain of how many folks nowadays have the soldering and metalworking skills to build it up.

I can understand the desire to have specific locomotives, but as it goes with freight cars, unless you were modeling mostly the SOO Line, and wanted a HIGH representation/saturation of SOO Line equipment, I say so what! I don't see the need to have pieces from EVERY railroad. Most trains that I watched back in the day had a lot of redundancy as far as freight cars (meaning a bunch of the same type cars), mostly from the home road. If you're a SOO Line fanatic, then go for it!

Just my opinion,

Simon

Big Jim posted:
Rule292 posted:
Big Jim posted:
Rule292 posted:
The kit is a master craftsman kit.   I know I don't have the metalworking skills to build it as it deserves to be built. 
 

Skills are one thing that can be learned. However, if you aren't already invested, having to pay for the equipment in order to do the job properly puts things into another dimension.

 Awwww, c'mon now...building brass models is so simple that teens in Asian countries can build models for Boo Rim.

You drastically missed the point! 

I'm sure of that. Mrs Rule292 (Rule 281!) always tells me the same thing.    Everything's perfectly CLEAR to her.

I think the $370 I spent for my  assembled SOO Line car was worth it.  I think it was Ernst Leitz of Leica camera fame that said - "Expensive is when the product is not worth the price".    YMMV based upon whether you have a few hundred to blow.  I took a BIG chance since I didn't know who made the car, only that it was brass and it looked well constructed.

It's a neat and unique prototype.  Of course I wished MG would have done a Southern SU which was equally as unique and much more common. 

Any of you brass scratch builders want to build me a Southern SU in brass?  Or an ERIE horizontal rib hopper?

Rule292 posted:
mwb posted:
Rule292 posted:. 

Any of you brass scratch builders want to build me a Southern SU in brass?  Or an ERIE horizontal rib hopper?

At my hourly rate, that'll cost you a lot more than that Soo Line car,

I guess $370 isn't so expensive for a well built brass model then!

Well built & accurate scale model.....

Expensive is somewhat subjective.  If you don't have $370, it is; if you have it to perforate & put on a roll for later use, then it isn't.  Most O scale modelers exist somewhere between those two rather disparate boundary conditions.

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