Modern Locomotives & Postwar Operating Cars

Arnold,

It may be "cheating" a bit but what I did was pick up a few of the Lionel Postwar Celebration Series dump cars and I run them regularly. They are well made and work great and, frankly, it's hard to tell they are not real PW vintage.

My modern coal dump car had a habit of dumping unexpectedly when going slow over a switch that was on a hill. My grandpa's old log dump car? Never ever dumped unless I was over the accessory track. I like the post war cars in general and I'm currently pulling them around my test loop with postwar and modern locos. I think the weight is more fun to pull than a lightweight car. It seems like they track better. My 3472/3462 (I think) milk train is one of my favorites to pull. 

I would venture to guess you'll be needing to repair less shoes going slower though. 

In response to Don Winslow's above request, this evening I shot a couple of videos.

The one below shows a modern MTH Proto 3 CSX diesel hauling Postwar operating coal dump cars slowly and smoothly through town:

IMO, there is beauty in this slow smooth run, particularly with the black coal unit train. Arnold

Looks good to me!

Arnold, the video of the slower coal drag is really awesome, but  Arron Judge is a yankee miracle! Saw the highlights! WOW! How exciting!

One thing to watch out for when running postwar operating cars with modern locomotives that contain electronics, is voltage spikes. When a solenoid is energized there is energy stored as magnetism.  When the voltage is interrupted this energy is released as a voltage spike. Spikes as high as 100 volts have been recorded on Lionel layouts. Model train people protect against this by installing TVS (transit voltage suppression) diodes.  The best place for these diodes would be in the loco needing protection.  Next best place would be across the two wires going into the solenoid coil.  The easiest place to put them is between the center rail and outside rail.  This can be as simple as connecting the two wires on the TVS to the two terminals on a lock-on and just snap in onto the track.  No other wiring is needed. I like to use the LCS, lighted lock-on, as the light bulb also will absorb additional energy.  A typical TVS recommended on this site is from Mouser, (Little Fuse) 576-1.5KE36CA.  When a device like this sees a excessively high voltage spike, it shorts the two wires it is connected to together converting the voltage spike to heat.  These devices are cheap, maybe less than $1 each.  

There has been lots of discussion on this site over the years.  Use the search engine and search for “TVS”. One of the early documents on this problem can be found at the following thread:

https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/...tage-spikes-and-tvss

@David Johnston posted:

One thing to watch out for when running postwar operating cars with modern locomotives that contain electronics, is voltage spikes. When a solenoid is energized there is energy stored as magnetism.  When the voltage is interrupted this energy is released as a voltage spike. Spikes as high as 100 volts have been recorded on Lionel layouts. Model trai...

Wow! I didn't know all that. That would be a real bummer if it happened. Could you remedy this with isolated blocks? You would have to push the operating car onto the isolated block but that could make for more interesting operating scenarios. Or tedious depending on how you look at it.

David, I think your point is well taken about the possibility of voltage spikes when pressing the unloading or uncoupling buttons of the remote control track section.

I never ruined a circuit board in a modern locomotive for that reason, probably because I rarely use those remote control track features when running my trains. I only use them when I run my trains for children and other guests, and they love to see the Lionel Postwar operating cars do their tricks.

Even though I rarely activate these operating cars, it is very important to me that they are in good operating order so I can play the role of the Wizard of Oz, pressing buttons, pulling levers, and letting the kids and my guests do so when they see my layout. LOL, Arnold

@Arnold D. Cribari posted:

Thanks, Chuck

 I don't have DCS or TMCC, but I have run LC+ locomotives in remote mode at 18 volts pulling Postwar coal dump cars, and so far there have been no problems.

Arnold, if I read one of your posts correctly, I sense you do have some PS2 and/or PS3 locmotives. Have you ever considered the "lite DCS" through the use of Remote Commander?

@raising4daughters posted:

Arnold, if I read one of your posts correctly, I sense you do have some PS2 and/or PS3 locmotives. Have you ever considered the "lite DCS" through the use of Remote Commander?

Never even heard of "lite DCS,"  but if it's user friendly, I might go for it. Thanks, Raising4daughters, for mentioning it.

I have 2 Proto 2 engines, and 3 Proto 3 engines, which are terrific locomotives that run on my layout powered by 2 Z4000 transformers. Arnold

MTH Proto 2 Pennsy turbine and Lionel postwar operating coal dump cars and caboose rolling down the line along the river:

Arnold

After watching that clip of your turbine pulling the dump cars, I think part of why it looks good to me is because of consistency. I think mixing postwar and modern rolling stock can be tricky because the brain notices the difference. But when it's 90% of one and just 10% of the other, the brain doesn't seem to mind. I think you can get away with a lot of "unrealistic" stuff as long as you're consistent. It will look like it belongs and that's what works.

That's my two cents. Doesn't really matter though. You can run whatever you please because it's your railroad and that's one of my favorite parts of this hobby. A creative backstory satisfies any beef someone has with how I've done something haha

I think you are correct, Bill. My layout is laden with Postwar accessories (barrel loader, log loader, animated newsstand, coal elevator, etc.) and scratch built structures (ball parks) than are caricatures, not scale models. For instance the MTH Proto 2 turbine and Postwar coal dump cars roll past the giant early Postwar #97 coal elevator (a caricature if there ever was one) in the above video. 

What about those Postwar coal dump cars? I know next to nothing about real coal cars, but to me, those Lionel coal dump cars seem like they might resemble the real thing, maybe simply because they are black. Arnold

@Arnold D. Cribari posted:

Never even heard of "lite DCS,"  but if it's user friendly, I might go for it. Thanks, Raising4daughters, for mentioning it.

I have 2 Proto 2 engines, and 3 Proto 3 engines, which are terrific locomotives that run on my layout powered by 2 Z4000 transformers. Arnold

Lite DCS is my term, not formal MTH, but here's a link to their Remote Commander. I haven't used it, but it enables you to run PS2 and PS3 engines with the smaller, less complicated remote (also in picture) as compared to the DCS remote.  https://mthtrains.com/50-1033

I think those postwar dumpers just got a great industrial look. I don't know if they were prototypical to a real car somewhere. 

Oh yes, they're based on a prototype, like these;

Nice!! That's cool. I didn't know that

@Arnold D. Cribari posted:

I think you are correct, Bill. My layout is laden with Postwar accessories (barrel loader, log loader, animated newsstand, coal elevator, etc.) and scratch built structures (ball parks) than are caricatures, not scale models. For instance the MTH Proto 2 turbine and Postwar coal dump cars roll past the giant early Postwar #97 coal elevator (a caricature if there ever was one) in the above video. 

What about those Postwar coal dump cars? I know next to nothing about real coal cars, but to me, those Lionel coal dump cars seem like they might resemble the real thing, maybe simply because they are black. Arnold

 

 

Side dump cars like the Lionel 3469 are very common on railroads. They are used primarily by the railroads for maintenance and new construction.  They are also used in open pit mining, like the Kennecott pits in Nevada  and Utah.  Real side dump cars can dump from either side.  One problem with these cars is the floor is very high above the track to allow them to tip the hopper way over to get everything to slide out. This made the center of gravity very high.  Sometimes when clearing a slide, a full load would be just one large rock. It was always a risk when dumping such a load that the entire car would tip over. Because of the high C of G these cars usually move at restricted speed when loaded. 

I doubt coal was ever moved in these cars once it left the mine.  Mostly what I have seen, in addition to copper ore, is mixed fill and large rocks. Most railroads have strings of these cars parked loaded with rock so they car respond quickly to a stream scouring a bank or a wash out.  

That's pretty cool that they keep them primed for washout response. I guess I just always see coal hopper or coke express where I am. Never saw a side dumping car 

@David Johnston posted:

...Most railroads have strings of these cars parked loaded with rock so they car respond quickly to a stream scouring a bank or a wash out.  

I often wondered about the cars filled with rock that I always see parked on this railcam: https://youtu.be/d-0ZzCLZqiI

Now I know. Thanks.

Bill