modern ZW need help

Are you running Legacy or Trainmaster on your layout. With the ZW programmed to Tr1 with a command signal it will come up in TMCC mode. In TMCC mode the A and D handles come up to 0 volts and are variable when addressed by the Cab1 as Tr1. To test the ZW in totally conventional mode the command bases need to be turned off. Go online and get a manual and it will explain the 2 different modes and how to set them.

Ron

To add to my post above: The A & D handles must be set to the desired maximum voltage before they are addressed in TMCC mode. If they are set to zero they will not go above that with the Cab1 or Legacy controller.

Ron

Yeah, i got that.Yes it is in Command mode, yes it is programmed, works as suppose to except when hooked to the track.  I put it on a meter.Connected it to the first posts. The handle all the way up.(it is programmed 1-4)So TR1- Then i turn the knob on the cab1 the voltage goes to6,7,8,9,10,. up to  19.6 volts. If i take the leads off the meter and touch them to the track the transformer immediately drops to zero.

So i did another test. I hooked up a(14V) led to it. When i turn the knob the led gets brighter and brighter and stays on at 19 volts. Only when i put a real load on it does it dud.

So i guess the next test will be to get a 3 ft piece of track and see if it will even turn on a engine and smoke unit.Maybe there is a polarity issue with this one brick im using,cause all the track grounds are connected on the layout.

Have you tried it hooked to a load in conventional mode? Also the manual says to not forget to put the jumpers in any unused plugs. I don't know if it make a difference as I have never tried it without them. The way it sound is the transformer is at full on the meter and while at full voltage you move the leads to the track. Then it immediately returns to zero. If there is a command signal on the track the zw would see it and start at zero. Are you then addressing Tr1 again with no response? if that is the case I would try it in conventional mode. If it doesn't work in conventional I would think it has a problem on the mother board. You might want to get a hold of Dale Manquen. I think he may be able to fix it.
Ron

Ron,

 

thanks for helping, the brick polarity i had was backwards, Now  i have another question maybe you can help.

 

Now that its working this is what i want to do.

 

I have 2 mainlines on the bottom level. I am going to plug 4 bricks into the ZW. Is this possible to run the 2 mainlines with 4 bricks? another words TR1  power track 1 and TR 4 power track 2?  Will it divide the power between the 4 bricks?  The jumper is off.

Nope,  Each brick will feed each TR or A, B, C, D individually.  G

Patrick,

I believe that the best you could do is break each of those mainlines into two blocks and then use a brick/handle for each block.

Mike

If you go with a TPC's, you can combine two bricks on one TPC.  Truthfully, I get a little nervous when I'm pumping 20 or more amps into one block.

Well, now Im back to the original problem again,

 

The transformer kick outs as soon as a load is on it. I turned the track power all the way up to 19.6 volts, my tmcc engine sits there and lights as well as all the 8 passenger cars light up. I address  the engine and try to get it going ,dud,the transformer goes to zero.Remove the ZW from the equation no problem.

Another experiment i did.

I left all the passenger cars  and engine on the track. Disconected the engine from the cars. The engine starts off and runs....If i grab the back of the engine and put a little resistance on it, then the transformer shuts down. So i guess im past my limit for 1 brick on one channel and no way to increase this.

 

  If i remove the 8 -passenger cars the engine works fine, so i guess Im done. Dont know if there is something inside the zw that can be changed to allow more of a draw before it kicks out.

well as a last ditch effort, i put the jumper on. Hooked 2 bricks up to it,(1 and 2 port) didnt turn on the signal(in conventional) and the tranformer works fine with 3 engines and a passenger set. Dosnt kick off. As soon as i let it come up in tmcc and turn the knob power starts up then kicks immediately off.Works in conventianal with a load,but not with a load in command.

I think your 8 passenger cars with lighting are the problem. Your amperage draw is probably on the edge of the maximum. When in command mode there might be a little more starting power needed for commands driving the motor. You say the engine runs fine by itself. Try adding one car at a time until it kicks out. The maximum output from each channel is only that channels powerhouse so adding more bricks to other channels will take any other loads off it will not add more power from the other bricks. So maximum output per channel is 180 watts. If you could get an ammeter you could check the current draw when the engine and cars start up and see if you're bumping up against the 10 amp limit. I see you have other powerhouses does the same thing happen when you exchange bricks?

Ron

"Thers no short on this mainline cause i turned on another brick and ran a train around to to double check."

Is this other brick still connected to the track (but powered off) when you add the ZW?

Yes Dale  the other brick was turned off and still connected. So what i did was took both bricks  from the same mainline plugged them both into the ZW, Installed the jumper,then I connected both blocks to the first post. Bricks where plugged into a,b, both blocks(complete mainline) connected to post A. When i dont turn on the legacy the transformer acts like a normal one using the lever to power the track.This works fine even with the 8 passengers and 3 engines. When i turn the signal on, then plug in the zw is when the problem begins.  I turn the (ZW)lever all the up to 20 , then turn the cab1 knob ,it begins to turn power up but immediately cuts out.

 

So i took the powermaster(Gray varible voltage controller)  put it in the ZW place, 1 brick in,... two blocks out.(1 mainline loop)   even with the one brick it handles it. 

So is there a difference between conventional draw and command draw? as far as where its pulled through?  I gave up and i am just using the powermaster now, but was hoping to figure out the zw so i can have 2 bricks at least running the loop not one.

 

The one other thing is ALL  my outside rails are connected

 

The red track is the one i want to put the zw on.  The black wires coming in on the bottom comes from whatever power source. Each mainline is divided in 2 by the middle rail only.

 

 

 

Patrick

 

Is the ZW cutting out like a HALT command was given?  If so Lionel had new chips to correct this in modern ZWs.  See this.

yes, but it never gets a chance , it immediately cuts out when starting to power up,ONLY in command mode. When i turn the cab1 you can hear the electonics in the tender kick on breifly then thats it.

Yep that is a symptom.  If you have an old command base and it works fine with that then most likely the chip will need replaced.  It was an issue with the ZW the Legacy exposed.

 

Mine sometimes would cut out while running and other times I couldn't even get it to power up the track for more than a few seconds.

Ron,

are you saying both handles have to be fully up?  I had the bricks plugged into a&b  with the jumper inside connected.The a handle all the wayup.If i connect a meter to it in command ,it does turn it up to 19.6 volts with the cab1 on the meter only.If i try the same thing on the track with a load then it duds.

 

i read the manual and watched the video for a refresher. I guess im trying to understand why in conventional it powers the track and engines no problem, but when in command mode and handles all the way  up,it duds out.

Yes if you had the handle set at halfway that would be the maximum voltage sent to the track when you turned the remote up all the way. Set at zero you would only get 1 or 2 volts turned up all the way form handle A & D. If you have Legacy Marty may have your answer. If you're running TMCC I suspect your transformer circuit protection may be a little low or you're at the 10 amp threshold. 8 coaches with light bulbs and 3 engines is a pretty big load. My 8 heavyweights draw about 6 amps by themselves that leaves only 4 amps for locomotion.

Ron