Modified Lionel PW GP power truck...!!

WANT!

Seriously, my pike is largely switching and I've wished for exactly that mod.

Lew

@DanssuperO who is this fellow, and would he be willing to do a few for me?  Do you know what the resulting gear ratio is?  (stock is about 8.33:1)  

This is the first time I've seen / heard of someone re-gearing Lionel postwar since a company called Scaled Tin Rail stopped offering this service, circa 1991, and it's about time!!  Why should Flyer guys have all the fun?  Best news I've seen on the forum this year!

Well  not to tease he makes for the 600 series  switchers    the same set up ! except he has the motor with them  not just the truck...  he can not do the old 622 die-cast  trucks  he said..  I was hoping he would sale them to me  wholesale but he said he happy doing  what hes  doing  .. anyways  so I know  .. when I talk to him again ..

How much are you willing to pay..?    He claims he has  @3 hours in each one...plus the old truck

I rather not tell you what I paid because I might of paid too much  or too little..

As far as the gear ratio  I would have to count the  gears on  his and you can find someone to figure it out .. All I know is they are really slower you hear the  motor turning faster than the old set up and it has a sort of dozer   drive train sound  when it runs ........daniel

Thanks Daniel.  The truck you're showing in your pictures looks like a 2028-100.  It was used in Geeps, Rectifiers, the EP-5 electric, and the later vertical-motored F3's.

I'm guessing it won't take 3 hours apiece once the work-flow is established ("learning curve").  Also there might be some economies to doing multiple truck blocks at the same time (batching.)

It seems like $50-60 would be a fair price to pay for this service in small batch production.  Of course I would supply the trucks.  Maybe I would consider paying more, but before I decide, I definitely want to know what the resulting gear ratio is.  Thanks for sharing this mod on the Forum!!

I see it involves more than just replacing gears. He had to make and install new gear studs too.

yes..he makes the gears  himself (he says) out of steel and the studs.. and has to machine them in the original  truck  (studs) with shaving to allow them  in the  casting  .. daniel

Truck looks similar to the postwar 2023 postwar engine except the pinion gear also had a blind wheel .

The 2023 when i had it ran like a top.

Does the gear change make it run more like a modern can motored locomotive at slow speed?

Sorry Im  a old school  lionel postwar  with PWC  type of a guy...BUT when I talked to him and asked him . about that question he said the mth trains and ones with can motors and boards can go slow with realistic speeds.. probably why  this modification would only interest  old school guys... daniel

A machinist, and his shop, for three hours? I'm guessing closer to $200. Agree with Ted S that doing several at once should reduce the time (and thus cost) per piece.

Well I'll let you know .. I paid $150.00 for it this included  his 2028-100  and was able to keep my original one on my GP. That's what he wanted that's what  I paid hes old school and would of took his  truck and left!!  Anyways I thought of taking it apart and ask a machine shop to make or duplicate  what he did .. but I have to have a lot of interest and 2028-100 's  for this to happen.. but maybe someone here can do it! I'll buy them if its less than $150.00   well worth it when you see it run...    daniel

nickaix posted:

A machinist, and his shop, for three hours? I'm guessing closer to $200. Agree with Ted S that doing several at once should reduce the time (and thus cost) per piece.

I agree with nickaix.   

If he has access to free equipment and tools in some shop you might get in the $50-$60 range.  

Otherwise the cost of a one of unit that takes three hours of a machinist with equipment, consumable tooling, utilities, floor space, raw material for gears and pins, insurance, scrap (units gone bad), etc. would easily get in the $200 for three hours.  I think the $150 for the truck with the work completed was a fair price.  I agree that having several in hand to work on should reduce the cost.

Dan, mark one of the armature lobes and one of the wheels, then turn the armature by hand and count how many turns it takes for one revolution of the wheel. That will give us the total reduction including the internal worm to worm wheel.

Dave

I marked the armature with a marker then I marked the wheels ......

          When I turned the armature one full revolution it made the wheels move @1/4 inch

Ok got me wondering what do I have..

OK, but you have to count how many revolutions of the armature it takes for one full revolution of the wheel. 

Dave

Dtrainmaster posted:

OK, but you have to count how many revolutions of the armature it takes for one full revolution of the wheel. 

Dave

Using a little math to approximate the new gear ratio. 

Given a wheel diameter of 0.83333 inch for a Lionel diesel (scale 40 inches), this gives a wheel circumference (pi*d) of 2.617 inches. Dividing by 0.25 inch per single revolution of the armature (from above) gives a gear ratio of 10.47, so it takes 10.5 revolutions of the armature to turn the wheels once where as stock is roughly 8 revolutions of the armature to turn the wheels once. 

The horizontal motors are ~9.5:1, a significant reduction from even that of 2343. I would imagine that the new gears would 1.) greatly reduce the speeds of the locomotive, 2.) result in cooler operation of the motor, and 3.) increase tractive effort. 

The gear replacement sounds interesting to me. 

DanssuperO posted:

Well I'll let you know .. I paid $150.00 for it this included  his 2028-100  and was able to keep my original one on my GP. That's what he wanted that's what  I paid hes old school and would of took his  truck and left!!  Anyways I thought of taking it apart and ask a machine shop to make or duplicate  what he did .. but I have to have a lot of interest and 2028-100 's  for this to happen.. but maybe someone here can do it! I'll buy them if its less than $150.00   well worth it when you see it run...    daniel

Easily worth that.

Lew

OK  I turned it 21 times  (of the armature  to make   one full revolution  of the wheels) ..........daniel