motor ID - likely Flyer

Looks like it came off an O gauge electric.

It is a AF early motor.  I don't think the bracket is original to the motor however. I'll bet it was used for a replacement motor for a later streamline trainset.

El Classico posted:

Looks like it came off an O gauge electric.

sorry for the confusion.  i changed the original post which should have indicated wheel diameter measurement across the flange.  i can see how this might have been misinterpreted as a gauge measurement.  yes, it is O gauge.

cheers...gary

Chuck Sartor posted:

It is a AF early motor.  I don't think the bracket is original to the motor however. I'll bet it was used for a replacement motor for a later streamline trainset.

i think you may be on to something here.  years ago i picked up an early Flyer electric (Type II, 1216) locomotive with a motor i'd never seen before and not documented in the Schuweiler text...

this motor has the same wheels, the same (maybe, haven't counted) large gear, and when i look at the motor itself, it seems to be a similar construction, but just laid out differently putting the small gear in a different location.

so i'll go with Flyer as at least the manufacturer, but still would like to hear from anyone who has this motor mounted in a shell.  if the frame was modified (i get the feeling it is original), it was done decades ago.

thanks...gary

No doubt Flyer in my mind. Looks almost identical to the 1218 here on my desk.

Steve

Steve "Papa" Eastman posted:

No doubt Flyer in my mind. Looks almost identical to the 1218 here on my desk.

i only have two Flyer electric outline locomotives, so that should probably have occurred to me.

thanks again...gary

The motor you show, less swivel bracket was used on all early electrics until 1930. Then the motor changed somewhat and the drive wheels are now of a later style type. A large cotter pin went through pair of cutouts on each end the held the motor to the frame.

I am in total agreement with Steve, that the motor has all the earmarks of the 1218 motor, but with the added top tab for mounting in a different loco body.  

Chuck Sartor posted:

The motor you show, less swivel bracket was used on all early electrics until 1930. ...

Flyer may have standardized their electric outline locomotive motor early on, but that certainly wasn't the case with steam.  i have four Type II locomotives with four different motor/ pickup configurations...

top locomotive in the stack, this is definitely the oddest.  there is no mention of a motor with no drive rods, but this motor obviously never had them.  the pickup doesn't look like anything production, but quite well done if it's homebrewed.  the nut/ bolt on the pickup is definitely period as is the wire used (it goes up to the front headlight.  only two wheels are driven, but the wheels do match the same 8-spoked used on the clockwork Type X (the source of the body for these early electrics).  bottom line... if this was kit-bashed, it was likely done >80 years ago.

this is the other side of the one i pictured previously.
dual roller pickup and 4-wheel drive.

this is the only duplicate motor i have, also with front and rear wheel gearing, but one has a single pickup while the other has two rollers (bottom two pictured in the stack).

in fact it wasn't until ~1932 that Flyer had the same motor/ pick-up/ wheels in more than one model.  granted it was probably a bit more difficult to fit a standard motor into a CI steam locomotive vs. a tinplate box or steeple cab shell.

fun stuff...gary

Motors is one place Marx beats them all. The electric CV came out in 1935. With almost no changes, the motor from 1975 can be used. The pick up plate from 1935 can be replaced with the one from 1975. Marx made a few specialty motors, but the basic guts were unchanged. They just used a different side plate. The biggest change component wise was about 1955 when they used the Delrin type bushing instead of oilite on the gear side of the commutator. The same basic motor was used in steamers, streamliners and diesels. A clockwork motor could be easily swapped with an electric motor.

Steve

well in defense of most other manufacturers who actually survived the early depression years, Marx entered the toy train market late in the prewar period.  in 1935 fractional horsepower motors weren't on the level of a rocket science as they were in the early 20's.

on the other hand, you'd have to think there was some sort of corporate espionage going on at 200 5th Ave.  not only will Marx motors fit practically any Marx locomotive body as Steve said, but i've seen Ives and Hafner motors in Marx shells, too.

cheers..gary

A bit of triviality. Dent Hardware Co., Fullerton PA cast some of AF-Chgo's loco shells in the early '20s.

Ron M

Gary, your pickups look to be Ives. Here's a 3268 upside down and a mangled 3241

Replaced by someone who serviced both Ives and AF?

Take a closer look, the pick-ups between Ives and AF are not the same.