Rider Sandman posted:
Norton posted:
MrMuffin'sTrains posted:
Super O Bob posted:

33?  Wow...  soon you should think about offering a SECOND cab number!  I am sure there are alot more like me who take all the time up to order deadline to decide what to get!

 

Interesting idea - the second cab number.... we are at 37 this evening.... 

Rather than another cab number just lobby Lionel to include a marker free smokebox front with every engine. That alone would sell significantly more than 37 engines.

Pete

But, Steve already did lobby Lionel and put his money where his mouth was. He went on the hook for a whole bunch of expensive engines without marker lights.  Why would he lobby for everyone else to get the same thing he’s already financially committed to provide for his customers?

I’m not 100% sure where you were going with this, and I can’t speak for Steve’s business model, but I also can’t see where offering a second boiler front in the regular cataloged line would hurt anything or anyone. Infact, it would help the other locomotives move.The folks that ordered the special Hudson from Steve, I would think ordered for more reasons than just the boiler front....those orders are comitted by the customer who placed the BTO special custom run. Steve has added another SKU to his product line in his store. Now add the desired part to the rest of the SKU’s, and those people on the fence for a specific cataloged SKU, will be more likely to purchase the model they want.......correct me if I’m wrong, but the name of the game in retail sales is volume. Not just from a single custom SKU.......not picking a fight Sandman, just seeing if I’m on your frequency or not..........Pat

The Water Level Route.......You Can Sleep

What is cool about second cab number is that you can cut sales off at 25 on each one.  It maintains the exclusivity and collectability.  Plus no doubt you might get guys who want to doublehead them and order more than one.

I would rather have 1 of 25 of a great hudson, than one of 48! 

And i personally know several guys who would buy more than one cab number...  lots of us want hudson to come out of the box with NO class lights...

The demand is there, lionel minimum of 25 only helps you...

Bob

Lionel Fan and Super "O" Track Enthusiast

Rider Sandman posted:
Norton posted:
MrMuffin'sTrains posted:
Super O Bob posted:

33?  Wow...  soon you should think about offering a SECOND cab number!  I am sure there are alot more like me who take all the time up to order deadline to decide what to get!

 

Interesting idea - the second cab number.... we are at 37 this evening.... 

Rather than another cab number just lobby Lionel to include a marker free smokebox front with every engine. That alone would sell significantly more than 37 engines.

Pete

But, Steve already did lobby Lionel and put his money where his mouth was. He went on the hook for a whole bunch of expensive engines without marker lights.  Why would he lobby for everyone else to get the same thing he’s already financially committed to provide for his customers?

Kudos to Steve for stepping up and offering a more prototypically correct model but why would he have to put any money up to do this? These are BTOs and if he didn't get at .least 25 orders none would have been produced. Now that they will get produced the only way he is put out on a limb is if everyone backs out and he is stuck with the lot.

BTW he wouldn't have to lobby for Lionel to include these fronts with every model, only for the ones he sells. 

Were these still available from Lionel as they once were I would have done that myself, assured I could resell every one I had.

In this case Steve is producing a model representing the engine in service. I already have two of those and many more in other classes. The only one I am interested in is the first one of the class as shown in the builders photo. Lionel's is close but it could be better. If its possible to get it better I am in. 

Pete

I applaud the muffin man for going NO CLASS LIGHTS out of the box.  That assures the front of engine must be painted to match.

Just slapping a front end part on from service may not look as good because there is no way to track down all the different smokebox colors and get a match with the front.  This is what worries me.

I have seen smokebox colors vary alot in these catalog pics, like 3 different colors it appears.  So i want my completed engine to match...

Now, if i can inspire the second cab number to be a little different...  i want the cool disc drivers on a black engine!

Bob

Lionel Fan and Super "O" Track Enthusiast

Without reference to catalog pictures this is confusing. I am trying to figure out, will Mr. Muffin's Hudson look like catalog pictured Hudson No. 5452 (with disc wheels), PT tender, and the primary difference being new cab # and no classification lights? Anything else different?

Paul Kallus posted:

Without reference to catalog pictures this is confusing. I am trying to figure out, will Mr. Muffin's Hudson look like catalog pictured Hudson No. 5452 (with disc wheels), PT tender, and the primary difference being new cab # and no classification lights? Anything else different?

Read the initial post, Steve listed the specs clearly line item by line item.....it’s all right there........Pat

The Water Level Route.......You Can Sleep

harmonyards posted:
Paul Kallus posted:

Without reference to catalog pictures this is confusing. I am trying to figure out, will Mr. Muffin's Hudson look like catalog pictured Hudson No. 5452 (with disc wheels), PT tender, and the primary difference being new cab # and no classification lights? Anything else different?

Read the initial post, Steve listed the specs clearly line item by line item.....it’s all right there........Pat

I read the description again...I was trying to extrapolate what'd it look like from one of the catalog pictures, but it'll be quite unique if I understand the description correctly. I have been waiting for a Lionel scale Hudson for a few years now, but in B&A roadname.

harmonyards posted:
Rider Sandman posted:
Norton posted:
MrMuffin'sTrains posted:
Super O Bob posted:

33?  Wow...  soon you should think about offering a SECOND cab number!  I am sure there are alot more like me who take all the time up to order deadline to decide what to get!

 

Interesting idea - the second cab number.... we are at 37 this evening.... 

Rather than another cab number just lobby Lionel to include a marker free smokebox front with every engine. That alone would sell significantly more than 37 engines.

Pete

But, Steve already did lobby Lionel and put his money where his mouth was. He went on the hook for a whole bunch of expensive engines without marker lights.  Why would he lobby for everyone else to get the same thing he’s already financially committed to provide for his customers?

I’m not 100% sure where you were going with this, and I can’t speak for Steve’s business model, but I also can’t see where offering a second boiler front in the regular cataloged line would hurt anything or anyone. Infact, it would help the other locomotives move.The folks that ordered the special Hudson from Steve, I would think ordered for more reasons than just the boiler front....those orders are comitted by the customer who placed the BTO special custom run. Steve has added another SKU to his product line in his store. Now add the desired part to the rest of the SKU’s, and those people on the fence for a specific cataloged SKU, will be more likely to purchase the model they want.......correct me if I’m wrong, but the name of the game in retail sales is volume. Not just from a single custom SKU.......not picking a fight Sandman, just seeing if I’m on your frequency or not..........Pat

Hey Pat, also definitely not picking a spat - this is all fun stuff!  My only concern - and I think Pete hit on it in his response - is that Steve committed to something unique that if it becomes “ununique” might cause folks to back out and leave him stuck with some of these engines. Remember, he is one of the guys who never requires a deposit. So, my point was intended to be that it may not be in his best interest to lobby for all SKUs (available from everyone) to have the same unique feature his specific SKU does. 

Rider Sandman posted:
harmonyards posted:
Rider Sandman posted:
Norton posted:
MrMuffin'sTrains posted:
Super O Bob posted:

33?  Wow...  soon you should think about offering a SECOND cab number!  I am sure there are alot more like me who take all the time up to order deadline to decide what to get!

 

Interesting idea - the second cab number.... we are at 37 this evening.... 

Rather than another cab number just lobby Lionel to include a marker free smokebox front with every engine. That alone would sell significantly more than 37 engines.

Pete

But, Steve already did lobby Lionel and put his money where his mouth was. He went on the hook for a whole bunch of expensive engines without marker lights.  Why would he lobby for everyone else to get the same thing he’s already financially committed to provide for his customers?

I’m not 100% sure where you were going with this, and I can’t speak for Steve’s business model, but I also can’t see where offering a second boiler front in the regular cataloged line would hurt anything or anyone. Infact, it would help the other locomotives move.The folks that ordered the special Hudson from Steve, I would think ordered for more reasons than just the boiler front....those orders are comitted by the customer who placed the BTO special custom run. Steve has added another SKU to his product line in his store. Now add the desired part to the rest of the SKU’s, and those people on the fence for a specific cataloged SKU, will be more likely to purchase the model they want.......correct me if I’m wrong, but the name of the game in retail sales is volume. Not just from a single custom SKU.......not picking a fight Sandman, just seeing if I’m on your frequency or not..........Pat

Hey Pat, also definitely not picking a spat - this is all fun stuff!  My only concern - and I think Pete hit on it in his response - is that Steve committed to something unique that if it becomes “ununique” might cause folks to back out and leave him stuck with some of these engines. Remember, he is one of the guys who never requires a deposit. So, my point was intended to be that it may not be in his best interest to lobby for all SKUs (available from everyone) to have the same unique feature his specific SKU does. 

Yes, I see that point....and I see the possible pitfall for Steve,....I’d like to hope the folks that ordered the custom run would not back out if they did, they’d certainly deserve to be tarred and feathered....you are quite correct, Steve is out on a limb, and certainly deserves high praises for his efforts, so I tip my hat to him......perhaps if Steve holds some sort of exclusive or comes up with a plan to offer these other key components folks are looking for (myself included) it’ll just be a win win for Steve.....merely a suggestion, not setting anything to stone.........Pat

The Water Level Route.......You Can Sleep

Paul Kallus posted:
harmonyards posted:
Paul Kallus posted:

Without reference to catalog pictures this is confusing. I am trying to figure out, will Mr. Muffin's Hudson look like catalog pictured Hudson No. 5452 (with disc wheels), PT tender, and the primary difference being new cab # and no classification lights? Anything else different?

Read the initial post, Steve listed the specs clearly line item by line item.....it’s all right there........Pat

I read the description again...I was trying to extrapolate what'd it look like from one of the catalog pictures, but it'll be quite unique if I understand the description correctly. I have been waiting for a Lionel scale Hudson for a few years now, but in B&A roadname.

Paul, I hear ya, and on another thread they’ve been discussing the B&A J2s......I think the three major drawbacks to using the current tooling for B&A’s are the driver diameter, the unique sand box, and the 4 axle tender that the B&A had coupled to their Hudsons.....Pete (Norton) and I were just talking the other day how a Premeir Blue Comet tender would almost be a dead ringer for a B&A J2 ....interesting promise for some future kitbashing.....Pat

The Water Level Route.......You Can Sleep

I don't see why anyone would "back out" if Lionel provided fronts for all of their hudsons.

Steves a reputable dealer that offers free shipping. And.....

This loco is still the only one thats all black, with a PT tender and boxpok drivers. The lack of class lights is just the icing on the cake.

With all of the different offerings, Pats offering an optional boiler front now too.  Given Lionels recent manufacturing issues. Does anyone honestly think theres no possibility of someone getting class lights that shouldn't and/ or shorted the extra boiler front?

 An extra boiler front for every loco( proper color of course), might be a touch easier for the factory to get right.

It would still be Steve that "got it done". I'm sure it wouldn't hurt his reputation.

" No matter how far we travel, the memories will follow in the baggage car."

harmonyards posted:
Paul Kallus posted:
harmonyards posted:
Paul Kallus posted:

Without reference to catalog pictures this is confusing. I am trying to figure out, will Mr. Muffin's Hudson look like catalog pictured Hudson No. 5452 (with disc wheels), PT tender, and the primary difference being new cab # and no classification lights? Anything else different?

Read the initial post, Steve listed the specs clearly line item by line item.....it’s all right there........Pat

I read the description again...I was trying to extrapolate what'd it look like from one of the catalog pictures, but it'll be quite unique if I understand the description correctly. I have been waiting for a Lionel scale Hudson for a few years now, but in B&A roadname.

Paul, I hear ya, and on another thread they’ve been discussing the B&A J2s......I think the three major drawbacks to using the current tooling for B&A’s are the driver diameter, the unique sand box, and the 4 axle tender that the B&A had coupled to their Hudsons.....Pete (Norton) and I were just talking the other day how a Premeir Blue Comet tender would almost be a dead ringer for a B&A J2 ....interesting promise for some future kitbashing.....Pat

I myself would like to see some B&A as well, but I don't think this tooling would do for it. Perhaps Steve can influence Lionel to offer them in the future as well as our voices. It would be great if they would make what is right and what we all want, but those are hard to come by. I am pretty certain that if these Hudson sales(their cataloged ones) do very well, this will open the door to try and pursue making others.

RickO posted:

I don't see why anyone would "back out" if Lionel provided fronts for all of their hudsons.

Steves a reputable dealer that offers free shipping. And.....

This loco is still the only one thats all black, with a PT tender and boxpok drivers. The lack of class lights is just the icing on the cake.

With all of the different offerings, Pats offering an optional boiler front now too.  Given Lionels recent manufacturing issues. Does anyone honestly think theres no possibility of someone getting class lights that shouldn't and/ or shorted the extra boiler front?

 An extra boiler front for every loco( proper color of course), might be a touch easier for the factory to get right.

It would still be Steve that "got it done". I'm sure it wouldn't hurt his reputation.

I agree RICKO, the only way I'm not getting the engine Steve is offering that I purchased is if I die before delivery. I don't see that happening though.

RickO posted:

I don't see why anyone would "back out" if Lionel provided fronts for all of their hudsons.

Steves a reputable dealer that offers free shipping. And.....

This loco is still the only one thats all black, with a PT tender and boxpok drivers. The lack of class lights is just the icing on the cake.

With all of the different offerings, Pats offering an optional boiler front now too.  Given Lionels recent manufacturing issues. Does anyone honestly think theres no possibility of someone getting class lights that shouldn't and/ or shorted the extra boiler front?

 An extra boiler front for every loco( proper color of course), might be a touch easier for the factory to get right.

It would still be Steve that "got it done". I'm sure it wouldn't hurt his reputation.

Bingo!...

The Water Level Route.......You Can Sleep

Thanks for supporting this project.... All we did is listen to what you guys said you wanted and tried to make it happen.... Lionel was very receptive.... I am really excited about it..... Same thing with the NKP #757..... You know, us Muffins are in the hobby too, and there are projects for engines, like my Monons, that we have been able to do because others jumped in and helped.... I am all ears on the B&A and I would like to see the NKP #170 too.... There will be more special runs down the road, I am sure.... Thanks again. 

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wmcwood posted:

I’ve been waiting for a re-released J3a for a while, then I couldn't decide on the version I wanted.  After a week of going back and forth.. .. 5415 ..5416..5415......5416 

I finally decided 5415 it is. 

Just placed the preorder. 

~Bill

 

Thank you, Bill... we appreciate it.... 

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wmcwood posted:

I’ve been waiting for a re-released J3a for a while, then I couldn't decide on the version I wanted.  After a week of going back and forth.. .. 5415 ..5416..5415......5416 

I finally decided 5415 it is. 

Just placed the preorder. 

~Bill

 

A week?  I am still deciding...  i usually drag mine out so it gives me something to take my mind off things...

I will decide at end of this month!

Bob

Lionel Fan and Super "O" Track Enthusiast

Super O Bob posted:
wmcwood posted:

I’ve been waiting for a re-released J3a for a while, then I couldn't decide on the version I wanted.  After a week of going back and forth.. .. 5415 ..5416..5415......5416 

I finally decided 5415 it is. 

Just placed the preorder. 

~Bill

 

A week?  I am still deciding...  i usually drag mine out so it gives me something to take my mind off things...

I will decide at end of this month!

The decision may be made a lot easier for you by the end of the month. From what I last read both Muffin's and Pat's are down to 3 left.

Skip  

TCA, LCCA

"On track, on time, and over budget!" 

This was the e mail I received from STEVE on Sunday.  I then ordered mine.

37 J3a's are ordered - we can do 40; lots of sales on Lionel; MTH Arrivals; don't miss out on Stockyard Express' military flat cars. Maybe an LV C420?

Stay frosty my friends,

laz57

TCA 03-55991

Norton posted:
superwarp1 posted:

Wonder why the limit is 40?  More sales equals more money for all involved.  Maybe Steve can comment.

I am guessing exclusivity, collectability. Also gets the procrastinators off the fence.

Pete

You figure the drop dead date of 3/8 to get orders in to Lionel  would get the procrastinators off you know what.  But, I don't know the in and outs of these dealer /Lionel special run agreements.

"Steve you do a run of a B&A Hudsons, with the short tender square Sandome and paint them green with grey smoke box.    Man I’ll dont know what I’ll do"

I haven't read this entire thread, so maybe this gets mentioned above, but:

The B&A Hudsons were J2's (essentially J1's, like the 5344 and 200 or so others, but with smaller, 75" drivers), not J3's. AB&A "J3" (no such animal) would make the wee class light issue fade into nothingness. Why would you want the wrong engine, when all you have to do, pretty much, is get a non-Vision Lionel J1 (Pullmor, but OK) or an MTH J1 and letter it for B&A? The small sandbox is even accurate at the beginning, and a modeler could take care of the big box, anyway.

Probably covered above, but I couldn't help it. Bad idea.

Our plan is to have all of the engines you guys want, and ordered, by 3/01 made.... I have to give Lionel a final number before 3/08..... we are significantly over 40 now..... Thank you, all.... 

In my opinion, I think announcing an "only xx are available" at this point is sort of unfair to you guys - creates a false scarcity.... Once we get past 3/08, then the production number is locked in, and there will only be xx available.... Given the cost of these things, I can't afford to order more than you guys pre-order from me. It took me 2 years to sell all of the Lionel ESE Hudson's I ordered based on the pre-orders I had received. Ouch. 

On the diesels, if I can get say half of the minimum quantity pre-ordered, then I am willing to take the risk on the rest - I know they will sell, though it will take a little longer than one would like.... 

Right now I don't have enough pre-orders for the NKP GP-35; the D&H C420; and the LV C420 to go ahead and make them.... Still like 3 weeks to go - maybe we will make it. I just need a few more of each.

All three C420's in Monon and the ex-Monon L&N have plenty of pre-orders. 

Our pal, David, suggested we make the LV with the silver trucks - what do you think? I would like to do two of them - but I need more pre-orders!

tr_lv407

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Thanks again Steve for clarifying the order date and number of order. It is great that the quota was made, and like most LHS's only order what the pre-order quantity is. My LHS does the same as well. A few years ago I had asked about some other engine that was available the year before and I happen to get lucky(M1A Coal Hauler Set). I got that no problem and asked about something else and asked in the same sentence if they ordered extra. It is not something that is good unless they know they can sell them, big steam engines tend to sit where diesels can more easily be sold. I love steam and will always get my full head of steam.

Hudson_5415

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I believe that he said that Lionel would have the delivery sometime around the 1st and that it typically takes about 10 days or so to get to them. I don't know if it is business days, but I would lean on that being what he meant. I'm sure that there will be an email and post here when they are in and shipping, so hold fast.

I talked with Lionel on the 31st and they told me it would be this week sometime before they are in.... We can take a couple more preorders.... Regularly $1499.99 - Pre-order sale priced at $1349.99.

Our custom run Hudson is here. 

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