MrMuffin'sTrains announces a Custom Run Lionel Legacy NYC J3a Hudson

I think I know the answer but I will ask anyways. Can I get one just like this except with class lights? I know it's not likely as you can't make every possible configuration desired. If not though, will it be possible to get new boxpok drivers from Lionel? 

I'm speaking from preference, not necessarily from prototypical correctness so there is no reason to debate. My best option is likely one of the two offered in the catalog with the PT tenders and change the drivers myself if they are available.

Randy_B posted:

I think I know the answer but I will ask anyways. Can I get one just like this except with class lights? I know it's not likely as you can't make every possible configuration desired. If not though, will it be possible to get new boxpok drivers from Lionel? 

Why not get this one and then trade someone who has bought one of the Lionel Catalog items with Class lights and swap fronts? I think there are more than a few of us willing to do that.

Pete

Free Shipping?  You guys are really making it hard to stay on the sidelines with all these Hudsons.

I'm not sure what is involved with adding lights but it seems like it would be easier to swap the drivers if they aren't pressed on. I will probably go with the all disc one in the case that boxpok wheels are not available as I don't want to end up with mixed, prototypical or not.

Randy_B posted:

I'm not sure what is involved with adding lights but it seems like it would be easier to swap the drivers if they aren't pressed on. I will probably go with the all disc one in the case that boxpok wheels are not available as I don't want to end up with mixed, prototypical or not.

First you have assume Lionel will sell you drivers without the frame. Currently you have to buy the complete frame for the earlier J3s to get the drivers. Then assume they haven't used loctite on the screws. They did use Loctite on the TMCC drivers so you will want to buy new screws in case you have to drill some out. BTDT.

I would be surprised if Lionel omitted the Class LEDs even on the fronts without markers. It should be just a matter of swapping fronts and inserting the LEDs in the markers.

I actually have a front from 5444 that I would be willing to swap for a front without the class lights. Number plates and headlights are screwed on to the front so changing them out is no big deal.

Thats why I have suggested Lionel just include both styles of fronts with the engine and eliminated most of the discussion about this matter.

Pete

If the wiring was the same for all of them in the case of the lights and they're easily changed to exactly match ones produced with them then that's a possibility. I wasn't sure what all would be involved with the drivers and that sounds much more involved. It's just a little frustrating that there are now 6 variants and not one checks all of the boxes.

Lionel had made the drivers available for separate sale when they messed up the J3 from 2001. They delivered the engine with disc wheels when they were catalog with boxpok. I had purchased a few sets. It took 25 minutes to change them out. The drivers are held on with a Philips screw. I'm sure if Lionel wanted to satisfy everybody, they would make the various drivers available for anybody that wanted a certain look.

NVisich posted:

Lionel had made the drivers available for separate sale when they messed up the J3 from 2001. They delivered the engine with disc wheels when they were catalog with boxpok. I had purchased a few sets. It took 25 minutes to change them out. The drivers are held on with a Philips screw. I'm sure if Lionel wanted to satisfy everybody, they would make the various drivers available for anybody that wanted a certain look.

Good to know. 

My attention is firmly grabbed. I will have to get in on this for sure because it is just one of those grand things to be in on. P.S., where's the thumbs up on my phone????

I had that engine from 2001, the traction tires were on the center driver and the engine bobbed up and down, rocked back and forth.  Order the kit and the traction tire was one the rear driver.  The mod was more than changing out the wrong drivers than what was cataloged.

MrMuffin'sTrains posted:

superwarp1 posted:

First Pic from the Rutland RR FB page, second photo from Richard Leonard's collection

Thank you so much for these pictures. 

I got my order in last night.  I think I can speak for many of us when I say Thank you!!!!! for getting this done for us!!!!   Maybe when they arrive I can bring a few friends out and to see your place and pick it up.  Thanks again Sir!

jeremy ferrell posted:

MrMuffin'sTrains posted:

superwarp1 posted:

First Pic from the Rutland RR FB page, second photo from Richard Leonard's collection

Thank you so much for these pictures. 

I got my order in last night.  I think I can speak for many of us when I say Thank you!!!!! for getting this done for us!!!!   Maybe when they arrive I can bring a few friends out and to see your place and pick it up.  Thanks again Sir!

Our pleasure - happy to help..... I hope you do visit..... 

Is there a limited number of these being produced Steve?

My order is in. Thank you Mr. Muffin's Trains for getting what we all wanted. 

RickO posted:

Is there a limited number of these being produced Steve?

The minimum number that we need to order is 25 with Lionel.... I am under the understanding that I can bump that number up some as long as I do it before the catalog order date which is 3/08... So, we will make at least 25 of these.... I don't want anyone to miss out, however, I will not be ordering extras..... 

Norton posted:

Randy_B posted:

I think I know the answer but I will ask anyways. Can I get one just like this except with class lights? I know it's not likely as you can't make every possible configuration desired. If not though, will it be possible to get new boxpok drivers from Lionel? 

Why not get this one and then trade someone who has bought one of the Lionel Catalog items with Class lights and swap fronts? I think there are more than a few of us willing to do that.

Pete

Right here, I’ll trade ya out!....lol........Pat

MrMuffin'sTrains posted:

RickO posted:

Is there a limited number of these being produced Steve?

The minimum number that we need to order is 25 with Lionel.... I am under the understanding that I can bump that number up some as long as I do it before the catalog order date which is 3/08... So, we will make at least 25 of these.... I don't want anyone to miss out, however, I will not be ordering extras..... 

When the minimum of 25 have been ordered Steve, will you let us know on here?

John Rowlen posted:

Is it possible to have this engine come with two boiler fronts, one with classification lights and another without?

Another dealer is including both fronts with his Hudsons.

Sincerely, John Rowlen

mr muffins is offering an exact representation of 5415, as it ran on the NYC for us scale/rivet counter types.  Why offer class lights when it never had them.  If you want them order from the other dealer.

Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

MrMuffin'sTrains posted:

RickO posted:

Is there a limited number of these being produced Steve?

The minimum number that we need to order is 25 with Lionel.... I am under the understanding that I can bump that number up some as long as I do it before the catalog order date which is 3/08... So, we will make at least 25 of these.... I don't want anyone to miss out, however, I will not be ordering extras..... 

When the minimum of 25 have been ordered Steve, will you let us know on here?

I’m pretty sure Steve will order as many as he has orders for, weather that’s 25 or 50. With Lionel more than happy to produce but with a deadline of 3/8/19 to get orders in.  I’m guessing by Christmas?

I am almost to 25 now, so keep them coming.... happy to order from Lionel whatever you guys pre-order.... 

Our C420 special runs are filling up too.... really exciting.... 

Another question.  Weathering, can these be sent out to someone before delivery to the customer?  Maybe Harry Hieke?

superwarp1 posted:

Another question.  Weathering, can these be sent out to someone before delivery to the customer?  Maybe Harry Hieke?

Really up to Harry. We have had customers arrange weathering with him and we’ve shipped the engines to him directly. 

That's perfect, thanks.

Just placed my order for #5415!

Traveling last few days so missed the post on first day.  I had a hard time picking which J3a to pre-order. I decided & ordered #5405 last week. Now I guess I'll be getting 2 this year....wife will go ballistic (if I'm still married by then)!

Doug

Bulldog_65 posted:

Just placed my order for #5415!

Traveling last few days so missed the post on first day.  I had a hard time picking which J3a to pre-order. I decided & ordered #5405 last week. Now I guess I'll be getting 2 this year....wife will go ballistic (if I'm still married by then)!

 

Doug

Thats the spirit!!

Steve is at 22 orders,  almost there to go forward with the project. I would say he’s ahead of schedule 

I ordered my 5415 earlier today, February 8, 2019.  The email from Mr. Muffins said they had 22 pre-orders. Mine would make another at 23 or more.  It should be a beautiful engine.  For all the trains in my collection, the only Hudsons are the Empire State Express #5426 and #5429 with plated tenders that pull my two sets of 21" NYC ESE passenger cars.

It will be good to have steam engines for pulling freight; this #5415 and the #5416 Hudson are pre-ordered.  It will be a busy Christmas season with their arrivals.

Sincerely, John Rowlen

I also ordered today from Mr Muffin so I guess we are at at least 24 

I liked SuperWarp1 idea of having it weathered

We topped 33 tonight. Pretty exciting. 

MrMuffin'sTrains posted:

We topped 33 tonight. Pretty exciting. 

Now that is VERY EXCITING news. Thanks again Mr. Muffin's Trains for being a ground breaking in getting this engine out there for us to have.

I would like to point out that there are two different price points for these engines - the lower one is $1399.99 list with the 12 wheel tender, and the upper one is $1499.99 with the PT Tender with the simulated water blow down..... we are discounting the special run we are doing with the PT Tender 10% off of MSRP - or $1349.99

Here are our prices for the other J3a's :

• Lionel L-1931450 New York Central LEGACY J3 #5405 - with 12 wheel tender - sale priced at $1259.99
• Lionel L-1931460 New York Central LEGACY J3 #5413 - with PT Tender - sale priced at $1349.99
• Lionel L-1931470 New York Central LEGACY J3 #5418 - with 12 wheel tender - sale priced at $1259.99
• Lionel L-1931480 New York Central LEGACY J3 #5452 - with PT Tender - sale priced at $1349.99
• Lionel L-1922050 New York Central Pacemaker set J3 #5410 - with 12 wheel tender - with 4 heavyweight passenger cars and sale priced at $1799.99

If you'd like NYC J3a #5410 without the passenger cars, I will do a set breakup and sell just the engine to you, for the first three guys that ask, at the $1259.99 price. Order one here.

33?  Wow...  soon you should think about offering a SECOND cab number!  I am sure there are alot more like me who take all the time up to order deadline to decide what to get!

Super O Bob posted:

33?  Wow...  soon you should think about offering a SECOND cab number!  I am sure there are alot more like me who take all the time up to order deadline to decide what to get!

 

Interesting idea - the second cab number.... we are at 37 this evening.... 

MrMuffin'sTrains posted:

Super O Bob posted:

33?  Wow...  soon you should think about offering a SECOND cab number!  I am sure there are alot more like me who take all the time up to order deadline to decide what to get!

 

Interesting idea - the second cab number.... we are at 37 this evening.... 

Rather than another cab number just lobby Lionel to include a marker free smokebox front with every engine. That alone would sell significantly more than 37 engines.

Pete

Norton posted:

MrMuffin'sTrains posted:

Super O Bob posted:

33?  Wow...  soon you should think about offering a SECOND cab number!  I am sure there are alot more like me who take all the time up to order deadline to decide what to get!

 

Interesting idea - the second cab number.... we are at 37 this evening.... 

Rather than another cab number just lobby Lionel to include a marker free smokebox front with every engine. That alone would sell significantly more than 37 engines.

Pete

Yep, this would surely help the catalogued locomotives sell better...........Pat

Norton posted:

MrMuffin'sTrains posted:

Super O Bob posted:

33?  Wow...  soon you should think about offering a SECOND cab number!  I am sure there are alot more like me who take all the time up to order deadline to decide what to get!

 

Interesting idea - the second cab number.... we are at 37 this evening.... 

Rather than another cab number just lobby Lionel to include a marker free smokebox front with every engine. That alone would sell significantly more than 37 engines.

Pete

But, Steve already did lobby Lionel and put his money where his mouth was. He went on the hook for a whole bunch of expensive engines without marker lights.  Why would he lobby for everyone else to get the same thing he’s already financially committed to provide for his customers?

Rider Sandman posted:

Norton posted:

MrMuffin'sTrains posted:

Super O Bob posted:

33?  Wow...  soon you should think about offering a SECOND cab number!  I am sure there are alot more like me who take all the time up to order deadline to decide what to get!

 

Interesting idea - the second cab number.... we are at 37 this evening.... 

Rather than another cab number just lobby Lionel to include a marker free smokebox front with every engine. That alone would sell significantly more than 37 engines.

Pete

But, Steve already did lobby Lionel and put his money where his mouth was. He went on the hook for a whole bunch of expensive engines without marker lights.  Why would he lobby for everyone else to get the same thing he’s already financially committed to provide for his customers?

I’m not 100% sure where you were going with this, and I can’t speak for Steve’s business model, but I also can’t see where offering a second boiler front in the regular cataloged line would hurt anything or anyone. Infact, it would help the other locomotives move.The folks that ordered the special Hudson from Steve, I would think ordered for more reasons than just the boiler front....those orders are comitted by the customer who placed the BTO special custom run. Steve has added another SKU to his product line in his store. Now add the desired part to the rest of the SKU’s, and those people on the fence for a specific cataloged SKU, will be more likely to purchase the model they want.......correct me if I’m wrong, but the name of the game in retail sales is volume. Not just from a single custom SKU.......not picking a fight Sandman, just seeing if I’m on your frequency or not..........Pat

What is cool about second cab number is that you can cut sales off at 25 on each one.  It maintains the exclusivity and collectability.  Plus no doubt you might get guys who want to doublehead them and order more than one.

I would rather have 1 of 25 of a great hudson, than one of 48! 

And i personally know several guys who would buy more than one cab number...  lots of us want hudson to come out of the box with NO class lights...

The demand is there, lionel minimum of 25 only helps you...

Rider Sandman posted:

Norton posted:

MrMuffin'sTrains posted:

Super O Bob posted:

33?  Wow...  soon you should think about offering a SECOND cab number!  I am sure there are alot more like me who take all the time up to order deadline to decide what to get!

 

Interesting idea - the second cab number.... we are at 37 this evening.... 

Rather than another cab number just lobby Lionel to include a marker free smokebox front with every engine. That alone would sell significantly more than 37 engines.

Pete

But, Steve already did lobby Lionel and put his money where his mouth was. He went on the hook for a whole bunch of expensive engines without marker lights.  Why would he lobby for everyone else to get the same thing he’s already financially committed to provide for his customers?

Kudos to Steve for stepping up and offering a more prototypically correct model but why would he have to put any money up to do this? These are BTOs and if he didn't get at .least 25 orders none would have been produced. Now that they will get produced the only way he is put out on a limb is if everyone backs out and he is stuck with the lot.

BTW he wouldn't have to lobby for Lionel to include these fronts with every model, only for the ones he sells. 

Were these still available from Lionel as they once were I would have done that myself, assured I could resell every one I had.

In this case Steve is producing a model representing the engine in service. I already have two of those and many more in other classes. The only one I am interested in is the first one of the class as shown in the builders photo. Lionel's is close but it could be better. If its possible to get it better I am in. 

Pete

I applaud the muffin man for going NO CLASS LIGHTS out of the box.  That assures the front of engine must be painted to match.

Just slapping a front end part on from service may not look as good because there is no way to track down all the different smokebox colors and get a match with the front.  This is what worries me.

I have seen smokebox colors vary alot in these catalog pics, like 3 different colors it appears.  So i want my completed engine to match...

Now, if i can inspire the second cab number to be a little different...  i want the cool disc drivers on a black engine!

Without reference to catalog pictures this is confusing. I am trying to figure out, will Mr. Muffin's Hudson look like catalog pictured Hudson No. 5452 (with disc wheels), PT tender, and the primary difference being new cab # and no classification lights? Anything else different?

Paul Kallus posted:

Without reference to catalog pictures this is confusing. I am trying to figure out, will Mr. Muffin's Hudson look like catalog pictured Hudson No. 5452 (with disc wheels), PT tender, and the primary difference being new cab # and no classification lights? Anything else different?

Read the initial post, Steve listed the specs clearly line item by line item.....it’s all right there........Pat

harmonyards posted:

Paul Kallus posted:

Without reference to catalog pictures this is confusing. I am trying to figure out, will Mr. Muffin's Hudson look like catalog pictured Hudson No. 5452 (with disc wheels), PT tender, and the primary difference being new cab # and no classification lights? Anything else different?

Read the initial post, Steve listed the specs clearly line item by line item.....it’s all right there........Pat

I read the description again...I was trying to extrapolate what'd it look like from one of the catalog pictures, but it'll be quite unique if I understand the description correctly. I have been waiting for a Lionel scale Hudson for a few years now, but in B&A roadname.

harmonyards posted:

Rider Sandman posted:

Norton posted:

MrMuffin'sTrains posted:

Super O Bob posted:

33?  Wow...  soon you should think about offering a SECOND cab number!  I am sure there are alot more like me who take all the time up to order deadline to decide what to get!

 

Interesting idea - the second cab number.... we are at 37 this evening.... 

Rather than another cab number just lobby Lionel to include a marker free smokebox front with every engine. That alone would sell significantly more than 37 engines.

Pete

But, Steve already did lobby Lionel and put his money where his mouth was. He went on the hook for a whole bunch of expensive engines without marker lights.  Why would he lobby for everyone else to get the same thing he’s already financially committed to provide for his customers?

I’m not 100% sure where you were going with this, and I can’t speak for Steve’s business model, but I also can’t see where offering a second boiler front in the regular cataloged line would hurt anything or anyone. Infact, it would help the other locomotives move.The folks that ordered the special Hudson from Steve, I would think ordered for more reasons than just the boiler front....those orders are comitted by the customer who placed the BTO special custom run. Steve has added another SKU to his product line in his store. Now add the desired part to the rest of the SKU’s, and those people on the fence for a specific cataloged SKU, will be more likely to purchase the model they want.......correct me if I’m wrong, but the name of the game in retail sales is volume. Not just from a single custom SKU.......not picking a fight Sandman, just seeing if I’m on your frequency or not..........Pat

Hey Pat, also definitely not picking a spat - this is all fun stuff!  My only concern - and I think Pete hit on it in his response - is that Steve committed to something unique that if it becomes “ununique” might cause folks to back out and leave him stuck with some of these engines. Remember, he is one of the guys who never requires a deposit. So, my point was intended to be that it may not be in his best interest to lobby for all SKUs (available from everyone) to have the same unique feature his specific SKU does. 

Rider Sandman posted:

harmonyards posted:

Rider Sandman posted:

Norton posted:

MrMuffin'sTrains posted:

Super O Bob posted:

33?  Wow...  soon you should think about offering a SECOND cab number!  I am sure there are alot more like me who take all the time up to order deadline to decide what to get!

 

Interesting idea - the second cab number.... we are at 37 this evening.... 

Rather than another cab number just lobby Lionel to include a marker free smokebox front with every engine. That alone would sell significantly more than 37 engines.

Pete

But, Steve already did lobby Lionel and put his money where his mouth was. He went on the hook for a whole bunch of expensive engines without marker lights.  Why would he lobby for everyone else to get the same thing he’s already financially committed to provide for his customers?

I’m not 100% sure where you were going with this, and I can’t speak for Steve’s business model, but I also can’t see where offering a second boiler front in the regular cataloged line would hurt anything or anyone. Infact, it would help the other locomotives move.The folks that ordered the special Hudson from Steve, I would think ordered for more reasons than just the boiler front....those orders are comitted by the customer who placed the BTO special custom run. Steve has added another SKU to his product line in his store. Now add the desired part to the rest of the SKU’s, and those people on the fence for a specific cataloged SKU, will be more likely to purchase the model they want.......correct me if I’m wrong, but the name of the game in retail sales is volume. Not just from a single custom SKU.......not picking a fight Sandman, just seeing if I’m on your frequency or not..........Pat

Hey Pat, also definitely not picking a spat - this is all fun stuff!  My only concern - and I think Pete hit on it in his response - is that Steve committed to something unique that if it becomes “ununique” might cause folks to back out and leave him stuck with some of these engines. Remember, he is one of the guys who never requires a deposit. So, my point was intended to be that it may not be in his best interest to lobby for all SKUs (available from everyone) to have the same unique feature his specific SKU does. 

Yes, I see that point....and I see the possible pitfall for Steve,....I’d like to hope the folks that ordered the custom run would not back out if they did, they’d certainly deserve to be tarred and feathered....you are quite correct, Steve is out on a limb, and certainly deserves high praises for his efforts, so I tip my hat to him......perhaps if Steve holds some sort of exclusive or comes up with a plan to offer these other key components folks are looking for (myself included) it’ll just be a win win for Steve.....merely a suggestion, not setting anything to stone.........Pat

Paul Kallus posted:

harmonyards posted:

Paul Kallus posted:

Without reference to catalog pictures this is confusing. I am trying to figure out, will Mr. Muffin's Hudson look like catalog pictured Hudson No. 5452 (with disc wheels), PT tender, and the primary difference being new cab # and no classification lights? Anything else different?

Read the initial post, Steve listed the specs clearly line item by line item.....it’s all right there........Pat

I read the description again...I was trying to extrapolate what'd it look like from one of the catalog pictures, but it'll be quite unique if I understand the description correctly. I have been waiting for a Lionel scale Hudson for a few years now, but in B&A roadname.

Paul, I hear ya, and on another thread they’ve been discussing the B&A J2s......I think the three major drawbacks to using the current tooling for B&A’s are the driver diameter, the unique sand box, and the 4 axle tender that the B&A had coupled to their Hudsons.....Pete (Norton) and I were just talking the other day how a Premeir Blue Comet tender would almost be a dead ringer for a B&A J2 ....interesting promise for some future kitbashing.....Pat

I don't see why anyone would "back out" if Lionel provided fronts for all of their hudsons.

Steves a reputable dealer that offers free shipping. And.....

This loco is still the only one thats all black, with a PT tender and boxpok drivers. The lack of class lights is just the icing on the cake.

With all of the different offerings, Pats offering an optional boiler front now too.  Given Lionels recent manufacturing issues. Does anyone honestly think theres no possibility of someone getting class lights that shouldn't and/ or shorted the extra boiler front?

 An extra boiler front for every loco( proper color of course), might be a touch easier for the factory to get right.

It would still be Steve that "got it done". I'm sure it wouldn't hurt his reputation.

harmonyards posted:

Paul Kallus posted:

harmonyards posted:

Paul Kallus posted:

Without reference to catalog pictures this is confusing. I am trying to figure out, will Mr. Muffin's Hudson look like catalog pictured Hudson No. 5452 (with disc wheels), PT tender, and the primary difference being new cab # and no classification lights? Anything else different?

Read the initial post, Steve listed the specs clearly line item by line item.....it’s all right there........Pat

I read the description again...I was trying to extrapolate what'd it look like from one of the catalog pictures, but it'll be quite unique if I understand the description correctly. I have been waiting for a Lionel scale Hudson for a few years now, but in B&A roadname.

Paul, I hear ya, and on another thread they’ve been discussing the B&A J2s......I think the three major drawbacks to using the current tooling for B&A’s are the driver diameter, the unique sand box, and the 4 axle tender that the B&A had coupled to their Hudsons.....Pete (Norton) and I were just talking the other day how a Premeir Blue Comet tender would almost be a dead ringer for a B&A J2 ....interesting promise for some future kitbashing.....Pat

I myself would like to see some B&A as well, but I don't think this tooling would do for it. Perhaps Steve can influence Lionel to offer them in the future as well as our voices. It would be great if they would make what is right and what we all want, but those are hard to come by. I am pretty certain that if these Hudson sales(their cataloged ones) do very well, this will open the door to try and pursue making others.

RickO posted:

I don't see why anyone would "back out" if Lionel provided fronts for all of their hudsons.

Steves a reputable dealer that offers free shipping. And.....

This loco is still the only one thats all black, with a PT tender and boxpok drivers. The lack of class lights is just the icing on the cake.

With all of the different offerings, Pats offering an optional boiler front now too.  Given Lionels recent manufacturing issues. Does anyone honestly think theres no possibility of someone getting class lights that shouldn't and/ or shorted the extra boiler front?

 An extra boiler front for every loco( proper color of course), might be a touch easier for the factory to get right.

It would still be Steve that "got it done". I'm sure it wouldn't hurt his reputation.

I agree RICKO, the only way I'm not getting the engine Steve is offering that I purchased is if I die before delivery. I don't see that happening though.

RickO posted:

I don't see why anyone would "back out" if Lionel provided fronts for all of their hudsons.

Steves a reputable dealer that offers free shipping. And.....

This loco is still the only one thats all black, with a PT tender and boxpok drivers. The lack of class lights is just the icing on the cake.

With all of the different offerings, Pats offering an optional boiler front now too.  Given Lionels recent manufacturing issues. Does anyone honestly think theres no possibility of someone getting class lights that shouldn't and/ or shorted the extra boiler front?

 An extra boiler front for every loco( proper color of course), might be a touch easier for the factory to get right.

It would still be Steve that "got it done". I'm sure it wouldn't hurt his reputation.

Bingo!...

I just ordered one; even though  I have spent more than I should have on trains over the last 6 months. However, I  like engines that are as prototypically  correct as possible. Looking forward to seeing it in person.

Thanks for supporting this project.... All we did is listen to what you guys said you wanted and tried to make it happen.... Lionel was very receptive.... I am really excited about it..... Same thing with the NKP #757..... You know, us Muffins are in the hobby too, and there are projects for engines, like my Monons, that we have been able to do because others jumped in and helped.... I am all ears on the B&A and I would like to see the NKP #170 too.... There will be more special runs down the road, I am sure.... Thanks again. 

Steve you do a run of a B&A Hudsons, with the short tender square Sandome and paint them green with grey smoke box.    Man I’ll dont know what I’ll do

I’ve been waiting for a re-released J3a for a while, then I couldn't decide on the version I wanted.  After a week of going back and forth.. .. 5415 ..5416..5415......5416 

I finally decided 5415 it is. 

Just placed the preorder. 

~Bill

wmcwood posted:

I’ve been waiting for a re-released J3a for a while, then I couldn't decide on the version I wanted.  After a week of going back and forth.. .. 5415 ..5416..5415......5416 

I finally decided 5415 it is. 

Just placed the preorder. 

~Bill

 

Thank you, Bill... we appreciate it.... 

wmcwood posted:

I’ve been waiting for a re-released J3a for a while, then I couldn't decide on the version I wanted.  After a week of going back and forth.. .. 5415 ..5416..5415......5416 

I finally decided 5415 it is. 

Just placed the preorder. 

~Bill

 

A week?  I am still deciding...  i usually drag mine out so it gives me something to take my mind off things...

I will decide at end of this month!

Super O Bob posted:

wmcwood posted:

I’ve been waiting for a re-released J3a for a while, then I couldn't decide on the version I wanted.  After a week of going back and forth.. .. 5415 ..5416..5415......5416 

I finally decided 5415 it is. 

Just placed the preorder. 

~Bill

 

A week?  I am still deciding...  i usually drag mine out so it gives me something to take my mind off things...

I will decide at end of this month!

The decision may be made a lot easier for you by the end of the month. From what I last read both Muffin's and Pat's are down to 3 left.

Yea, i was under impression 25 is a MINIMUM order.  If you preorder, i think you get...

Steve doesn't play those games - they will make as many as are ordered!

Super O Bob posted:

Yea, i was under impression 25 is a MINIMUM order.  If you preorder, i think you get...

I understand Steve is making 40.

This was the e mail I received from STEVE on Sunday.  I then ordered mine.

37 J3a's are ordered - we can do 40; lots of sales on Lionel; MTH Arrivals; don't miss out on Stockyard Express' military flat cars. Maybe an LV C420?

Wonder why the limit is 40?  More sales equals more money for all involved.  Maybe Steve can comment.

superwarp1 posted:

Wonder why the limit is 40?  More sales equals more money for all involved.  Maybe Steve can comment.

I am guessing exclusivity, collectability. Also gets the procrastinators off the fence.

Pete

I think I am finally figuring how all the Lionel and custom run Hudsons will look: Mr. Muffin's Hudson will look like No. 5413 except all boxpok wheels and no classification lights.

Just ordered one. Thanks Steve for doing a special run of the Hudson's.

Norton posted:

superwarp1 posted:

Wonder why the limit is 40?  More sales equals more money for all involved.  Maybe Steve can comment.

I am guessing exclusivity, collectability. Also gets the procrastinators off the fence.

Pete

You figure the drop dead date of 3/8 to get orders in to Lionel  would get the procrastinators off you know what.  But, I don't know the in and outs of these dealer /Lionel special run agreements.

"Steve you do a run of a B&A Hudsons, with the short tender square Sandome and paint them green with grey smoke box.    Man I’ll dont know what I’ll do"

I haven't read this entire thread, so maybe this gets mentioned above, but:

The B&A Hudsons were J2's (essentially J1's, like the 5344 and 200 or so others, but with smaller, 75" drivers), not J3's. AB&A "J3" (no such animal) would make the wee class light issue fade into nothingness. Why would you want the wrong engine, when all you have to do, pretty much, is get a non-Vision Lionel J1 (Pullmor, but OK) or an MTH J1 and letter it for B&A? The small sandbox is even accurate at the beginning, and a modeler could take care of the big box, anyway.

Probably covered above, but I couldn't help it. Bad idea.

Our plan is to have all of the engines you guys want, and ordered, by 3/01 made.... I have to give Lionel a final number before 3/08..... we are significantly over 40 now..... Thank you, all.... 

In my opinion, I think announcing an "only xx are available" at this point is sort of unfair to you guys - creates a false scarcity.... Once we get past 3/08, then the production number is locked in, and there will only be xx available.... Given the cost of these things, I can't afford to order more than you guys pre-order from me. It took me 2 years to sell all of the Lionel ESE Hudson's I ordered based on the pre-orders I had received. Ouch. 

On the diesels, if I can get say half of the minimum quantity pre-ordered, then I am willing to take the risk on the rest - I know they will sell, though it will take a little longer than one would like.... 

Right now I don't have enough pre-orders for the NKP GP-35; the D&H C420; and the LV C420 to go ahead and make them.... Still like 3 weeks to go - maybe we will make it. I just need a few more of each.

All three C420's in Monon and the ex-Monon L&N have plenty of pre-orders. 

Our pal, David, suggested we make the LV with the silver trucks - what do you think? I would like to do two of them - but I need more pre-orders!

Thanks again Steve for clarifying the order date and number of order. It is great that the quota was made, and like most LHS's only order what the pre-order quantity is. My LHS does the same as well. A few years ago I had asked about some other engine that was available the year before and I happen to get lucky(M1A Coal Hauler Set). I got that no problem and asked about something else and asked in the same sentence if they ordered extra. It is not something that is good unless they know they can sell them, big steam engines tend to sit where diesels can more easily be sold. I love steam and will always get my full head of steam.

Hey Steve, you broke your own rules. You said in the email do not post this pic on any public forum and then you go about posting it.  Shame on you

I love the look of this engine the more I look at the drawing. I just hope that when it comes to the final piece, it is dynamite.

Any word on the arrival of the Mr. Muffin's Hudson?

I was told Lionel was expecting them November 1.

I am assuming at some point they will ship to Steve. 

I believe that he said that Lionel would have the delivery sometime around the 1st and that it typically takes about 10 days or so to get to them. I don't know if it is business days, but I would lean on that being what he meant. I'm sure that there will be an email and post here when they are in and shipping, so hold fast.

I talked with Lionel on the 31st and they told me it would be this week sometime before they are in.... We can take a couple more preorders.... Regularly $1499.99 - Pre-order sale priced at $1349.99.

Our custom run Hudson is here. 

Am sure this has been asked earlier, but is the new legacy Hudson using the K-Line tooling or something new please?

c.sam posted:

Am sure this has been asked earlier, but is the new legacy Hudson using the K-Line tooling or something new please?

K LINES Hudson is a J1e.

These Hudsons are J3a's. The ones with class lights use Lionel 6-28072 tooling.

Those without class lights use Lionels 6- 38041 tooling. 

These models are basically the same aside from the class lights.

Having said that.  Yes there are some small errors( headlight type for one) but,Lionels 6-38041 Hudson is arguably their most accurate as well as highly detailed hudson.

Definitely not the K-Line J1e casting. J3a's have a different profile than  J1e's. They also appear chunkier. J3a's are a totally different boiler casting. 

RickO posted:

c.sam posted:

Am sure this has been asked earlier, but is the new legacy Hudson using the K-Line tooling or something new please?

K LINES Hudson is a J1e.

These Hudsons are J3a's. The ones with class lights use Lionel 6-28072 tooling.

Those without class lights use Lionels 6- 38041 tooling. 

These models are basically the same aside from the class lights.

Having said that.  Yes there are some small errors( headlight type for one) but,Lionels 6-38041 Hudson is arguably their most accurate as well as highly detailed hudson.

 

Lionel J3a with a correct headlight thanks to Precision Scale. It will be interesting see if Lionel got it right this time but I wouldn't count on it.

Pete

NYC Fan posted:

Definitely not the K-Line J1e casting. J3a's have a different profile than  J1e's. They also appear chunkier. J3a's are a totally different boiler casting. 

 

Dave told me it was old tooling, so I'm guessing it's the tooling from the early 2000's J3 with added detail.

Hmm, I guess we'll know soon enough when those who are the experts(not me) get to examine them and help educate folks like me. Here's hoping they don't have smiley faces on them and green wheels.

Just for mention, 28072 & 38041 share the exact same boiler casting sans some coloring and of course, cab numbers. Differences between to two complete locomotives are all the mentioned differences , time and time again...,it’s easy to make 28072 into a fine model...here’s 28072 complete, next to a 38041 boiler casting...every cast in detail same as.............Pat

harmonyards posted:

Just for mention, 28072 & 38041 share the exact same boiler casting sans some coloring and of course, cab numbers. Differences between to two complete locomotives are all the mentioned differences , time and time again...,it’s easy to make 28072 into a fine model...here’s 28072 complete, next to a 38041 boiler casting...every cast in detail same as.............Pat

Ah, the anniversary set. I do remember RickO and or Norton giving me a lengthy explanation about the differences between these two and other such Hudson's on one of the many Hudson topics. It always seems that the 28072 is out on the bay, and the 38041 comes up every now and again.

superwarp1 posted:

Dave told me it was old tooling, so I'm guessing it's the tooling from the early 2000's J3 with added detail.

I'm guessing its the same tooling with the exact same level of detailing, right down to the incorrect headlight Pete mentioned.

......and if there's any of that bright silver left from recent legacy steamers. It'll have that on the smokebox too.

Saw The video of the new Hudson YEP SILVER SMOKE BOX! How disappointing. I live 20 minutes out of Schenectady NY specifically asked the ALCO Museum! NYC USED BLACK GRAPHITE Why Lionel insist on these fantasy colors for NYC is pathetic!  Sorry

I can't tell if it's the lighting on Steve's layout or not, but the smoke box looks dark gray to me.

Certainly not the bright almost-white silver that was on the H10 Consolidations. The sounds are pretty much as I predicted. Good, but no real surprises either.

Yeah I hope so but even still the black grafite that was actually used is a very flat non reflective very dark gray to the point it looked black. This is how it was explained to me. This is the way NYC ordered from ALCO. I want to ask around I am sure someone in Schenectady has a sample of the stuff. 

Looks like I will be repainting the smoke box after the warranty expires.

Yeah, it is a little too shiny. It should be a little lighter than the drive rods I would think since those a darkered and the color chart from the drawing they are very close. A little off, but I can live with it. Someone commented on the video about something else being off as they said when they switched to the bigger tenders that changed, superheaters.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IfvMbX76Vi4

Well Very disappointing for me! Not a new casting!! class light holes filled ONLY!! 

here is a comparison. Oh the second to last photo has the K Line Hudson all black. 

So they got the NYC graphite coating CORRECT on the mohawk!!! The Erie Pacific is correct graphite color. WHY CANT THE GET THIS HUDSON RIGHT??????? It’s not rocket science LIONEL!!  I don’t why these were even accepted by Mr Muffins trains. They should have all been returned to Lionel! obviously they got the order WRONG. I am sure Mr Muffins ordered the correct “DARK” grafite like the Mohawk!! as stated on the description.  This silver not even an attempt at graphite!

How absolutely disappointing. 

Parting line across the top of the smokebox forward of the stack is not too cool. Suppose it could be smoothed down if one was to repaint the smokebox.

Norm Charbonneau posted:

Parting line across the top of the smokebox forward of the stack is not too cool. Suppose it could be smoothed down if one was to repaint the smokebox.

Good catch Norm! I thought Lionel learned their lesson from the H10 .

No parting lines on any of my  "Reagan era" Legacy stuff, or TMCC stuff for that matter......I'm finding TMCC locos more desirable  these days due to the build quality.

Is that a flaw in the top right of the smokebox front?  It almost looks like they filled in where the class lights mount on the 28072 tooling intsead of using the 38041 tooling that lacks the class lights.

I think Mr. Muffins custom run is the only one without class lights, so I suppose its "possible" they casted all the boilers and then made the correction for the Muffin order.

The K Line looks  molded in. Don’t see this on the Pacific or the Mohawk. I have some conventional Lionel steamers i need to look at.

Yes Ricko on both sides! looks like a bad job filling in the class light holes. The gloss is killing me too!

I wonder what they filled it with?

They should have dug around in the chinese warehouse a bit more and found the smokebox front tooling for the 38041 hudson without the class lights.

A few of the models are depicted as having a darker smokebox in the catalog, including the one in the Pacemaker set. It will be interesting to see if thats actually the case.

This is the Bean counters at lionel maximizing profits only!

The rest of the engine is straight forward nothing special. Switch for Water scoop steam is so deep you can’t reach it with a finger. Need toothpick or something. 

Picked mine up from ups yesterday also. The silver is a bit disappointing . It seems like paint color is something simple that should be easy to get correct. 

My Lionel 1931810 New York Central J3a Hudson #5415 from Mr. Muffins Trains is perfect.

I checked the boiler front and there are NO flaws, divots, or scratches at all.  Can you believe that John Rowlen actually got a perfect engine?  The graphite boiler front is the same color as my Challenger #3985, though the paint has a little shine under lights. The Challenger is completely flat - no reflection.

All features work well after an hour and a half run time.  The engine is pulling five NYC Milk Cars and ten Pennsylvania 21" passenger cars on my minimum O-72 curve "Valley of Bridges" layout.

I will shoot a few more pictures and post them when I go back down stairs to get the wash from the dryer. I tweaked my right knee when I was out raking leaves. Trips down the stairs are at a minimum.  Aspirin is at a maximum.

Sincerely, John Rowlen

Shouldn’t have to spend this kind of money and regret it! I think i will stay with MTH and Sunset! I got the MTH Premier Challenger last year and EXTREMELY satisfied with it, Sunset CNW 4-8-8 and Sunset NW Y6 GREAT runners Hard pullers!  All my diesels are MTH accept the Legacy NYC e8 (crazy light gray color). 

Congratulations John on your flawless Engine. I am not sure what to do or how Muffins can correct this. Definitely flawed. I will not run it until i attempt getting it resolved. Take care hope you get better soon. 

SLO32,  I would call Mr. Muffins Trains and tell Steve or Jeff about the engine. They did have two engines still available.  The boiler front should be available as parts arrive from China, but leave that for Mr. Muffins to handle.  See if they have another engine to swap.

As some on OGR may remember, my new limited edition Nickle Plate GP35 #910 from Mr. Muffins arrived with paint missing on the front lift bar brackets and two colors of yellow on the end lift bars.  I am waiting for Aaron at Lionel parts to get a replacement front step assembly when parts finally arrive from China. There are no guarantees that Aaron will find the parts in the correct paint. Wish me luck.

Have a Happy Thanksgiving.

Sincerely, John Rowlen

Congrats John!!  Glad you got a good one!

Ok John will do. It also is missing the coupler lift bar link. Thank you and happy Thanksgiving

Here are a couple pics of the front of mine. I have some paint loss that  is much more noticeable when the front is open.  I did email Lionel if some paint was available as my fear is it will get worse over time, no reply yet.  Also think one of the steps on the front is bent up but probably an easy fix.  Certainly seems like mine bounced around on the front .

Looks like JPAUL did get the lift chain, and also a flaw on the right side of the front:

Did anyone get a dummy front coupler for double heading? I don’t have it in the box. 

SLQ32 posted:

Did anyone get a dummy front coupler for double heading? I don’t have it in the box. 

How often were NYC Hudsons "doubleheaded"?

Not sure. Got it with the K line and every other Lionel steam engine. Thought one would be with this one too. I did get a K dee coupler pocket for the tender. 

I really miss the darker silver. At least this isn't the 'H10' white silver, but still they need to toss this paint out. I will still get one but it hurts me a little that they missed on it.

Hot Water posted:

SLQ32 posted:

Did anyone get a dummy front coupler for double heading? I don’t have it in the box. 

How often were NYC Hudsons "doubleheaded"?

Not often.........Pat

SLQ32 posted:

Saw The video of the new Hudson YEP SILVER SMOKE BOX! How disappointing. I live 20 minutes out of Schenectady NY specifically asked the ALCO Museum! NYC USED BLACK GRAPHITE Why Lionel insist on these fantasy colors for NYC is pathetic!  Sorry

There seemed to be a certain amount of variation. Dirt and grime enter in, of course, and we're looking at old black and white images. It appears evidence of lighter colors does show through on the boiler fronts in several of the photos, though.

Lionel should really do their homework better with this.

I live less than 20 minuets outside Schenectady. ALCO museum is here as well as GE. It’s a shame GE is slowly pulling out. They no longer make locomotives (diesel) here. I always could see them rolling out shiny new. 

RickO posted:

Is that a flaw in the top right of the smokebox front?  It almost looks like they filled in where the class lights mount on the 28072 tooling intsead of using the 38041 tooling that lacks the class lights.

I think Mr. Muffins custom run is the only one without class lights, so I suppose its "possible" they casted all the boilers and then made the correction for the Muffin order.

Not quite the only one. I remembered reading a comment that Pat (from Pat's Trains)  made a while back when he was taking orders for his custom Hudson, which some may find of interest.

"I wanted to let you guys know of our solution to the classification lights. I had a great conversation with John Bickford from Lionel today and we talked about the solution of the classification lights on the boiler front. Here is our solution, I will for no extra cost to the customer order extra boiler fronts without the lights and include them for free with the preorder of our Hudson." 

I did not get a dummy front coupler or a smoke fluid funnel.  Otherwise, my engine is perfect.  I received the nut wrench and pipette and traction tires and a small bag of parts.

Pat did mention that he was getting both boiler fronts for his #5416 Hudson. I contacted him last week and he had no definite date for their arrival. I have a #5416 on order.

Sincerely, John Rowlen

John Rowlen posted:

I did not get a dummy front coupler or a smoke fluid funnel.  Otherwise, my engine is perfect.  I received the nut wrench and pipette and traction tires and a small bag of parts.

Pat did mention that he was getting both boiler fronts for his #5416 Hudson. I contacted him last week and he had no definite date for their arrival. I have a #5416 on order.

Sincerely, John Rowlen

John, I for one, am sure glad your happy!...you definitely deserve a break!.......Pat

SLQ32 posted:

Did anyone get a dummy front coupler for double heading? I don’t have it in the box. 

Mine did not com with one either. I probably wouldn't use it anyway.

Mine looks real good except for that silver painted smoke box. Looks like it would be a job to repaint it. I might have to live with it. The parting line covers the full length of the boiler but it's not that bad.

I gave it a test run. Smoke OFF, water pickup smoke OFF, Blue tooth OFF. Runs extremely smooth on all throttle settings from 1 up. IN REVERSE! forward it vibrated like an Odyssey 1 engine! horrible! 

sounds off smooth in reverse. I used the bell so you can see how smooth. 

Here is forward. again note the bell and you can hear the vibrations

SLO32,  I am hoping for the best for your new Hudson. Often new engines have a hesitation in one direction as gears wear-in and the oil that I added moves around the axles and bearings.  I use Labelle #107 and have had very good luck getting the engines to run smoothly.  I am hoping this is just a run-in/start-up issue. 

With the boiler front issue, I would make Mr. Muffins aware as soon as possible. They had two left a couple of days ago.  Good luck.  The Hudson engines that have been posted on OGR look attractive and have appeared to run smoothly: Pat's and Mr. Muffin's videos. Perhaps the shipping gremlins gave your engine a rough delivery.

Have a good Thanksgiving.

Sincerely, John Rowlen

I was looking at the other ones in Lionel's catalog, we'll have to see if the other runs with the silver boiler are darker than ours. I know the Pacemaker set the Hudson is all black(took a bit of looking on my tiny phone screen to be sure) but two of the others look a dark grey color, one slightly darker than the other.

John i understand running in gears ect. When rebuilding automobile engines a break-in oil is used. I believe special gear lubes are available with a bit of abrasive materials to aid meshing gears ect. The fact it runs smooth one way and not the other i have a hard time believing it is mechanical. It might be sensor adjustment related. 

SLQ32 posted:

John i understand running in gears ect. When rebuilding automobile engines a break-in oil is used. I believe special gear lubes are available with a bit of abrasive materials to aid meshing gears ect. The fact it runs smooth one way and not the other i have a hard time believing it is mechanical. It might be sensor adjustment related. 

Its always good practice on a new steam locomotive to make sure the the eccentrics are in the correct position and the screw is tight. That can cause rough running or even lock up if its too far off.

Pete

Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

I was looking at the other ones in Lionel's catalog, we'll have to see if the other runs with the silver boiler are darker than ours. I know the Pacemaker set the Hudson is all black(took a bit of looking on my tiny phone screen to be sure) but two of the others look a dark grey color, one slightly darker than the other.

Getting back to this since I have more time(on lunch now), I snapped out of the catalog the two engines I cited. These definitely look darker, right? Are they the same color in the catalog as they will have been produced at? Only time will tell.

I think from the catalog discussion as well as one of the "Hudson's they got it wrong again" topics, I don't think many were were ordering those, mostly the Black and the Pacemaker set(at least that is how it seemed back then).

These are computer renderings. 

SLQ32 posted:

These are computer renderings. 

Yes, I know. My point is will these actually have the right color scheme that they were intended to or will Silverfinger get them too.

Let’s hope so. I hope they use the correct font on tender lettering as well as cab number. 

Depending on what the next catalog has in store, I may see about picking up one of the other Hudson's from this earlier catalog. I think I'd go for 5418 since this run has the big tender.

It appears that Pat's Trains posted a photo of his Hudsons on another thread, that he just received. Looks like his version has a dark graphite boiler front.

Great 🙄

And the CORRECT FONT 

I seriously don’t understand 

Pat's is a all black boiler.

Doug

And correct font! 

Not this

Is the NYC font the same as Lionel used on the Vision Line Niagara PT Tender?  I wonder if the PT tender had a different font.

Depending on the year it entered service, the paint shop my have changed type styles. I do not know, but my Pennsylvania steam engines have different fonts.

Sincerely, John Rowlen

Good Question. All i know is this font is different than all my other NYC locomotives. The font used on other Lionel, MTH, K Line, HO Athearn, Kato, Bowser, Rivarossi, Bachmann and micro-mark decals i have are all the same NYC font. 

Practically every photo I see online of the J3A's with the PT centipede tender have san-serif lettering, so Lionel did seem to get that right.

Any NYC engine with a PT tender will have gothic font. NYC changed the font from Railroad Roman to Gothic sometime in the early '40s. The PT tender was introduced after the font change. The J3a's were built in the late 30s when RR font was still in use. Pats engine represents as built as should 5405 and the Pacemaker engine as those TT gray cars were in use before the font change. Any Hudson with the standard tender could use either font depending on era. Same applies to Mohawks. The Niagara would only have gothic font as they came along around '45-'46.

Pete

Thanks for the information. Makes feel a bit better. I didn’t research the actual fonts on the prototype j3 w/PT tender.

breezinup posted:

It appears that Pat's Trains posted a photo of his Hudsons on another thread, that he just received. Looks like his version has a dark graphite boiler front.

I thought it was all black actually?

Only thing I’ll add to Pete’s comments, which are correct, is, a locomotive with RR font would have been changed to Gothic when it was shopped after the new font was adopted railroad wide. Obviously not all appliances were re-lettered, especially if a particular appliance was coming to the end of its useful service life. But the general rule of thumb was if it came in for shop, and it had RR font, it got the later font..........Pat

Actually here is the link 

https://nycshs.files.wordpress...14/07/pt-tenders.pdf

So they did get it right. My apologies. 

If I was a store owner I think I'd ditch making special runs rather than dealing with the constant gripping. These guys, Steve, Pat, Charlie, and others put a lot of effort, time, and funds to get these made and then deal with this every time they do this. 

Im sure you can give Lionel grief but after a while I'm sure these guys won't want to even try. 

I took a few real close up shots of the boiler to see the phantom class lights spot.

spec of something on the boilerYou can see the "class" spots hereMore noticeable here.This angle very hard to see them.Close up of the boiler's colorMy B6 is much darker(and needs a dusting). I would have thought the color of the Hudson boiler would be much closer or just as dark as the B6's?

MartyE posted:

If I was a store owner I think I'd ditch making special runs rather than dealing with the constant gripping. These guys, Steve, Pat, Charlie, and others put a lot of effort, time, and funds to get these made and then deal with this every time they do this. 

Im sure you can give Lionel grief but after a while I'm sure these guys won't want to even try. 

I really appreciate these guys going out on a limb to try and give us what we wanted. I love my engine no matter what and even thanked Steve at York for doing so. If I could have bought from the others, I would have done so as well and not griped one bit. They did what they did to give us what we wanted, and I myself am very pleased with the end result. Sometimes Marty, we get stuck counting the rivets, I try not to but want to be educated in what the engine(or other such things) are supposed to be.

Thanks again @MrMuffin'sTrains, I am a very satisfied customer.

MartyE posted:

If I was a store owner I think I'd ditch making special runs rather than dealing with the constant gripping. These guys, Steve, Pat, Charlie, and others put a lot of effort, time, and funds to get these made and then deal with this every time they do this. 

Im sure you can give Lionel grief but after a while I'm sure these guys won't want to even try. 

I myself am not griping at Any Store owner who put in the effort to get these special runs made. I appreciate it! My gripe is with Lionel for poor QC! missing parts, Bad running gear, ect!

Some save and budget for these. At this price point i shouldn’t need a 4 leaf clover up my..... And pray i receive a “good one”  

If my #5415 Hudson has any hint of a marker light dimple, I will tell friends that the engine hit a cow, no BULL, … and the hoof put a dent in the boiler front.  That is my story and I'm sticking to it.

Sincerely, John Rowlen

MartyE posted:

If I was a store owner I think I'd ditch making special runs rather than dealing with the constant gripping. These guys, Steve, Pat, Charlie, and others put a lot of effort, time, and funds to get these made and then deal with this every time they do this. 

No one is blaming the dealers for putting these together. We can thank these dealers for offering more accurate models than Lionel themselves.

It's on Lionel. Why couldn't they produce a Loco with the proper smoke box color? Ya know . The same dark graphite that was used on every Lionel steamer for over a decade prior to the Legacy H10. In fact the Tmcc H10 has the correct dark color.

Additionally , why not go through the effort of using the boiler front tooling from the 38041 Hudson instead of the sloppy hole patch job done to fill the 28072 boiler front class lights?

Why doesnt Lionel back up their dealers by providing a quality product for the dealers to sell. Or maybe dealers will just stop selling Lionel altogether.

These locomotives are not even new. They are reruns like most other offerings. How can a manufacturer make errors on things it got right 10+ years ago?

What else in life do you purchase for over $1000 and either have to fix yourself or say....well...that's good enough?

Maybe a little less silliness ,and more time spent on paint colors, gearbox engineering, soundboard capacity, etc etc would yield better results.

Lionel doesn’t care about it. It’s all about the bean counters maximizing profits and bottom line for shareholders. 

Just my opinion 

I think it’s fantastic personally.   it matches art steve provided when ordering.  

I received mine today and I think it is terrific. Yes there are some really minor spots on the boiler front from where the class lights were. But I have to get real close and put light on it to see it. I don't think anybody would notice unless you get a flashlight and magnifying glass out when somebody comes over. Nobody will see that when they are running. I looked at the bell and it makes a smaller amount of the wobbly look as seen in the video above just sitting on my desk under a ceiling fan. May have to figure out a way to make it more heavier to prevent that. The Graphite looks fine to me and it matches several pictures in "Know Thy Hudson" and"Thoroughbreds" and looks just like the picture Muffins had on his pre-order page and is still on his site now. I think it is a winner. Thank you Steve.

My 5418 shows up Friday and I will get a shot of them side by side. It will have the same Graphite Boiler front as this is what Ryan had told me. I am real excited about the BoxPox drivers as I think they are really cool looking. Also the the 5410 in the Pacemaker Set will be a sister engine to 5416 that Pat has done with black boiler front as this is also what Ryan told me - time will tell.  

My dealer says sets are due about mid December - we shall see.

The engine I would like to see is the 5452 - does it have a black boiler front?

@RickO I agree with you with the manufacturers. It seems time and time again that they are either a little off the mark, or something has completely slipped through. I really do hope that they get their A Game going and don't stop. I am fairly sure that all the dealer's are still given them H-E-double hockey sticks as my local dealer has said a few times in the past(the great catalog fiasco comes to mind).

If they want to continue to have record sales, they are going to have to stop having recalls become common place. Word is still out on the Mogul(don't get me started the crowd says). We know that new toolings are expensive, they all tell us so. We know. So, the basics become to either get correct toolings, or do the dang best they can with what they have. I really hope and pray(I pray differently then most, I don't ask for much, lol) that whatever they have planned for the January 20th unveiling, that they have done everything possible, and hold the factories in check so that there aren't any serious issues with what comes out for the final product. I know I can't make a locomotive worth anything, but I know that the community at large can take something old and turn it into something that will work much better than some of the stuff we see that is new.

One can only hope that we get their best possible creation every time.

I’m curious....lately on this forum, I’ve had a lot of curiosity with some of these threads.....so you fellas that are disappointed and dissatisfied with your Hudsons...whatcha gonna do? Are you fellas keepin them or are they going back? Please note, I’m not choosing sides, I’d just like to know if the problems are so grave ( to you guys individually) that it warrants a return/refund..........Pat

harmonyards posted:

I’m curious....lately on this forum, I’ve had a lot of curiosity with some of these threads.....so you fellas that are disappointed and dissatisfied with your Hudsons...whatcha gonna do? Are you fellas keepin them or are they going back? Please note, I’m not choosing sides, I’d just like to know if the problems are so grave ( to you guys individually) that it warrants a return/refund..........Pat

There are no sides, In my case i just want a proper working $1,300 product. I was disappointed in the boiler color. I prefer the dark graphite on my Lionel Mohawk. but just this. I am however upset about the horrible way it runs in forward. vibrating increasingly with speed from 1 (on the cab 2 remote)  Reverse is absolutely smooth. Of coarse i will have to have to send it back to have it looked at. But i need this? 

@RICKO is spot on with his reply.  What is most frustrating to me is that this stuff should be simple to get right (i.e. paint color , better packaging to prevent shipping damage)  I believe the paint chipping on mine is from the front flopping open/closed during transport because it’s not secured .  I have reached out to Lionel , hoping they will send me some paint to touch it up , they seem to have plenty . 

@harmonyards, I have not run across any grave issues yet, doubt I ever will. I buy what I buy and enjoy everything I get. If something breaks, I'll get it fixed. If something comes a little out of whack, I'll see what way it can be fixed and act accordingly with respect to whomever I bought it from.

SLQ32 posted:

 

harmonyards posted:

I’m curious....lately on this forum, I’ve had a lot of curiosity with some of these threads.....so you fellas that are disappointed and dissatisfied with your Hudsons...whatcha gonna do? Are you fellas keepin them or are they going back? Please note, I’m not choosing sides, I’d just like to know if the problems are so grave ( to you guys individually) that it warrants a return/refund..........Pat

There are no sides, In my case i just want a proper working $1,300 product. I was disappointed in the boiler color. I prefer the dark graphite on my Lionel Mohawk. but just this. I am however upset about the horrible way it runs in forward. vibrating increasingly with speed from 1 (on the cab 2 remote)  Reverse is absolutely smooth. Of coarse i will have to have to send it back to have it looked at. But i need this? 

If there are any, have you tried adding grease to the grease ports in the under carriage?