MTH 2020 Vol. 2

I’m looking at the NKP 765 to work next to my NW 611. I have had the CSX ES44s on order since the last catalog, so those should be in soon. A few freight cars are interesting. 

I see this catalog as a bit of a compromise between the 2020 vol. 1 and a completely new 2020 vol. 2. I am sure the events in China slowed things down quite a bit. And it is no secret that MTH still has an overstock in some steam. I am still holding out that new molds will one day be made for new models. 

Without the York experience this Spring it was especially good to see a new catalog.  Certainly, as someone pointed out, given the current state of affairs.  I’ve picked out a bunch of possibilities for pre-order.  Will be hard to narrow the list down!

I was hoping MTH was going to do the CP Heritage/Military units. However, I'm surprised they went with the SD70ACe body instead of reworking the SD90MAC-H body (20-2367-X) It would have been a closer match. Maybe the tooling was too old to pass off as Premier.  

There are a few things I like to buy #2102 T-1 RDG   , A few old diesels and a bunch of cars, However I cannot pull the trigger with all the stuff going on in asia right now, seems a little unamerican to me. I got to see what the future will be first. 

I like the return of the Turbo Train, Twin Stacks and the 55’ All Door Box Cars.  Also like seeing more Military Flats.

Not at all interested in their steam offerings (for 3 or 4 years now).  Would’ve liked to have seen the WM challenger, DM&IR Yellowstone, or the GN R2 or even their PRR T1.  All of which Lionel doesn’t have (specific) tooling for.  Maybe 2021?

-Brian

Thinking about a pair of SD45's in ATSF livery and/or a TTX Gunderson set.

Nothing for me, thanks. I still have preorders from previous MTH and Lionel catalogs. 

Nothing in this one. Still waiting on a couple ATSF cars from 2019 V2 and a Rail King scale ATSF H10-44 from 2020 V1.

It looks like a 2-rail B&O SD35 will be on my preorder list as well as a couple of Chessie 50' PS-1 box cars and both CSX ACF 2-bay Centerflow covered hoppers.

@SIRT posted:

    I like the MTH PS-1 but MTH just cant seem to issue box cars with the correct doors...…. 20-93918

Either people will have to buy a plug-door from a parts company or make one from plastic sheets and metal wires. 

The door variety on their box cars seems to be limited.

Andrew 

I will order the Lake Superior & Ishpeming or LS&I ore car.

Andrew

I ordered the pair of PREMIER Arcata & Mad River Railroad 55' All-Door Box Cars because they were part of the SIMPSON timber company that owned the Simpson-Lee Paper company that used to operate here in Vicksburg, Michigan in the 1970's and 1980's.

Andrew

Falcon Service

After looking through it a few ours ago, I waited until now to see what may have stayed with me as being interesting.

So far I'm interested in:

*Premier Santa Fe SD45

*Amtrak or Penn Central Turbo Train

*Add on 3 coach set of Strasburg wood sided passenger cars. (still waiting for somebody to make a Strasburg steam loco)

There might be others but I'm eying the Golden Gate Depot Amtrak Viewliners and Amfleet cars that will put a serious dent in my train budget.

I might consider the WM RS-3. But nothing really stands out for me which is good. Saving money for a new vehicle.

Question for the group...Can anyone confirm that MTH 2-rail F-Series locomotives (for example, the F3’s in this new catalog) come with fixed pilots?  I’m assuming they do, but you can’t really tell from the catalog images.  I’m seriously considering pre-ordering my first-ever 2-rail engines—the CNJ F3’s featured in this catalog—but only if they have fixed pilots.

I figure with the 3/2 configuration, I can always swap out the wheel sets from 2-rail to 3-rail if necessary...or keep the 2-rail wheel sets and just add the pick-up rollers, depending upon what type of track they’ll be running on.  

If anyone owns an MTH 2-rail F’s, a photo or two would be much appreciated.  Thanks!

Either people will have to buy a plug-door from a parts company or make one from plastic sheets and metal wires. 

The door variety on their box cars seems to be limited.

Andrew 

Peewee league software. Can’t see the posters response in order to reply with a quote?

Another software issue?

Only Weaver had the Plug doors. Would have to strip a 50' ribbed Weaver if you could find one. You would have to try and match the paint as well. Problem is, no one makes close and lock door decals. Have to print them on the PC.

MTH seems to incorrectly use ugly superior doors rather than Youngstown's on their 40 footers. Lionel offers the correct doors for the correct cars. I don't get MTH?  Oh, and the black brake wheel on all boxcars? Common.

On another note: As Eric pointed out, 44 tonners only had one engineer, not two. Such simple things to do correctly, maybe they should look at a R.R. book and see?

Sent MTH a note, maybe they will get a clue?  I guess Lionel has the Weaver P.D. door mold for Lionelscale?

2 seconds ago

@SIRT posted:

    I like the MTH PS-1 but MTH just cant seem to issue box cars with the correct doors...…. 20-93918

 

Hey SIRT,

Your pic above shows a Pullman PS-1 car with 1/2 height ladders and no roof walk.  In one of my Rock Island books, I have a picture of a car in the same series as above, but WITH a 10' sliding "Camel" (i.e. Youngstown) door instead of a plug door.

The description in my book states that Rock Island received 250 of these cars in 1969.  The FIRST 50 of the cars, numbers 35000 thru 35049, were equipped with the 10' sliding Camel doors.  The last 200 of the cars, numbered 35050 thru 35249, had the 10'-6" plug doors instead as seen in your picture.

In essence then, the Rock Island car depicted in the MTH catalog, car #35030, would be correct with the Camel-style doors (although I don't know if the MTH model has 10' wide doors or not).  The only real problem then, is that the MTH model has full height ladders and a roof walk.

So rather than messing around with making new doors, all you would really need to do for a more correct car would be cut down the ladders, lower the brake wheel, and remove the roof walk.  That sure seems a lot easier to me.  

@CNJ #1601 posted:

Question for the group...Can anyone confirm that MTH 2-rail F-Series locomotives (for example, the F3’s in this new catalog) come with fixed pilots?  I’m assuming they do, but you can’t really tell from the catalog images.  I’m seriously considering pre-ordering my first-ever 2-rail engines—the CNJ F3’s featured in this catalog—but only if they have fixed pilots.

I figure with the 3/2 configuration, I can always swap out the wheel sets from 2-rail to 3-rail if necessary...or keep the 2-rail wheel sets and just add the pick-up rollers, depending upon what type of track they’ll be running on.  

If anyone owns an MTH 2-rail F’s, a photo or two would be much appreciated.  Thanks!

I have CGW "scale wheel" F3s and pilots are fixed,  that's one of the features of the "scale wheels" classification. Took me years to find out.  Great stuff! The side frames can be move inward by redrilling mounting holes.  I'm lusting after the same unlts.

RTH, I figured as much.  Thanks for confirming!

@robmcc posted:

I was hoping MTH was going to do the CP Heritage/Military units. However, I'm surprised they went with the SD70ACe body instead of reworking the SD90MAC-H body (20-2367-X) It would have been a closer match. Maybe the tooling was too old to pass off as Premier.  

Tooling should not be too old.  MTH last issued the Premier SD90MAC in the 2013 v1 catalog with PS 3.0.  I like your thinking as the SD90 is the right model in terms of body size, tank, rear end and radiator/fan arrangement to make the SD70ACU rebuild that CP used for their Heritage and Military units. 

If MTH could somehow produce the SD70ACe cab for the SD90 body, it would make a close SD70ACU rebuild like CP and NS have done.  After all, MTH did something similar with cab tooling for new SD60E models in 2016 v1.  But with new tooling costs or injection modifications to two existing tool sets a b*tch, it probably was decided too hard given only CP and NS have done rebuilds in the SD70ACU manner.  While MTH would be limited to those two flags, it would still be a very cool big new motor to market and own with two CP Heritage paints, five CP Military paints and two standard CP (red) and NS (black) paints available for a total of at least nine versions with new road numbers for 10 Heritages and numerous standard engines.

While timing is everything when one of the Big 6 premiers a rebuild with a new paint job, MTH may have decided the SD70ACe model was close enough for cab appearance and light/number board arrangement.  Plus they could continue to reissue the NS Heritage Ace units as part of the run as shown.  Personally, I would be happy to wait on the bigger SD90-sized body getting a SD70ACU cab.  C'mon MTH! 

Really liking the ATSF SD45 and Chessie SD40-2.  If I could get confirmation that the ATSF SD45 will have the beacon light and painted over rear number boards I may just pre-order it.

I was excited to see the LS&I ore cars!

@Catonsville Central Railway posted:

Really liking the ATSF SD45 and Chessie SD40-2.  If I could get confirmation that the ATSF SD45 will have the beacon light and painted over rear number boards I may just pre-order it.

I have the MTH SF SD45 that came out in 2008. It is a PS2 version. Here are two pictures of it. If MTH keeps the same shell and features, it should have what you want. However, no guarantee that will happen. All they need to do is switch to PS3 electronics and new cab numbers.

 The Chessie SD40-2 units are already available, they were in 2019 V2 catalog, and were shipped to dealers in March. I have both road numbers, so if you have any questions about them, I will try to answer them.

@CNJ #1601 posted:

Question for the group...Can anyone confirm that MTH 2-rail F-Series locomotives (for example, the F3’s in this new catalog) come with fixed pilots?  I’m assuming they do, but you can’t really tell from the catalog images.  I’m seriously considering pre-ordering my first-ever 2-rail engines—the CNJ F3’s featured in this catalog—but only if they have fixed pilots.

I figure with the 3/2 configuration, I can always swap out the wheel sets from 2-rail to 3-rail if necessary...or keep the 2-rail wheel sets and just add the pick-up rollers, depending upon what type of track they’ll be running on.  

If anyone owns an MTH 2-rail F’s, a photo or two would be much appreciated.  Thanks!

i have a set of 2-rail F7's in CNW livery. The pilots are fixed. You mount Kadee 806 or 743 couplers and they're fine. The ABA set had truck mounted, non-operating couplers between the units which at some point I'll replace with body-mounted Kadees. I bought a hi-rail additional B-unit and through some reconfiguration set it up to work in the consist. I don't have a good photo, but here's the set at the club The B-units have the hi-rail trucks and couplers between them, but I'm going to change out the wheels. They run well, but the powered A units could use a little more weight. They track fine on the club hi-rail layout with scale wheels.

@Catonsville Central Railway posted:

Really liking the ATSF SD45 and Chessie SD40-2.  If I could get confirmation that the ATSF SD45 will have the beacon light and painted over rear number boards I may just pre-order it.

Since you asked about specific detail on the ATSF SD45, one thing you should know about the MTH Chessie SD40-2 released engines, they are in the 7500 series and are sub-lettered for C&O. C&O never had any SD40-2 engines, all of their engines were base SD40 with the short rear porch vs the long rear porch found on SD40-2 units. When SD40-2 unit were purchased for Chessie, all were sub-lettered for B&O in the 7600 series. A few years later the C&O SD40 units were upgraded to SD40-2 specs but still road on the shorter SD40 frame in Chessie colors.

@AGHRMatt posted:

i have a set of 2-rail F7's in CNW livery. The pilots are fixed. You mount Kadee 806 or 743 couplers and they're fine. The ABA set had truck mounted, non-operating couplers between the units which at some point I'll replace with body-mounted Kadees. I bought a hi-rail additional B-unit and through some reconfiguration set it up to work in the consist. I don't have a good photo, but here's the set at the club The B-units have the hi-rail trucks and couplers between them, but I'm going to change out the wheels. They run well, but the powered A units could use a little more weight. They track fine on the club hi-rail layout with scale wheels.

 

Matt

I'm confused about what Kadee couplers to install on my new fixed pilot Train Master. Previously, I read 805, but then 743 and now you suggest 806. Can you further explain why one over another?

Thanks for the reply above, Matt.  I appreciate the info!

@Oman posted:

Matt

I'm confused about what Kadee couplers to install on my new fixed pilot Train Master. Previously, I read 805, but then 743 and now you suggest 806. Can you further explain why one over another?

Keith, the 806 and the 743 are the shorter draft gear box versions of the 805 and the 745.  The "800" series Kadees are the "older" style with external knuckle springs, while the "700" series are the newer style "Type E" couplers with internal knuckle springs.   Several of the folks here state that the shorter boxes work better on MTH engines when converting to Kadees.

Side note: the older "800" series couplers will actually mate with traditional "lobster claw" type couplers, while the "700" series not so much...should that matter to you.

@Oman posted:

Matt

I'm confused about what Kadee couplers to install on my new fixed pilot Train Master. Previously, I read 805, but then 743 and now you suggest 806. Can you further explain why one over another?

Joe nailed it.

@DG posted:

 

Since you asked about specific detail on the ATSF SD45, one thing you should know about the MTH Chessie SD40-2 released engines, they are in the 7500 series and are sub-lettered for C&O. C&O never had any SD40-2 engines, all of their engines were base SD40 with the short rear porch vs the long rear porch found on SD40-2 units. When SD40-2 unit were purchased for Chessie, all were sub-lettered for B&O in the 7600 series. A few years later the C&O SD40 units were upgraded to SD40-2 specs but still road on the shorter SD40 frame in Chessie colors.

Hey, thanks for sharing the pictures of the SD45!  If MTH simply recreates that 2008 model with upgraded electronics, I'd be happy.  I guess we shall see...

And you're right about the Chessie units already released.  I'd forgotten I'd seen them for sale already.  Thanks for the prototype info!  Not a deal breaker for me.  And if it were, one could always swap the C for a B, and the 5 for a 6.  Of course, if you're saying all C&O units were non-dash-2 SD40s, they should also have flexicoil trucks, correct?

Question, though, what's the horn like?  Did they go for the Leslie horn or the K5LA?

Here are several pictures. The trucks look the ones for the SD40-2, which none of the C&O units ever had, but while running you would have to get real close and look hard to see the difference. There is also a quick video of the horn. My memory doesn’t serve me well enough to know which horn  it closest resembles, I know one has a much deeper sound vs the other sound tint-like high. The unit has both ditch lights and marker lights so you can pick one you want. All originally had only marker lights.

It was close enough for me so I got both units. The last time MTH did a Chessie SD40-2 was in year 2000, I didn’t want to gamble that it would be another 20 years before the next one.

MTH has also done a couple runs of Western Maryland SD40-2's even though the WM never had any Dash 2's, just straight SD40's. MTH continues to use the same old tired tooling for their SD40-2's and apply it to railroads that never owned them like the C&O and WM.

@catnap posted:

MTH has also done a couple runs of Western Maryland SD40-2's even though the WM never had any Dash 2's, just straight SD40's. MTH continues to use the same old tired tooling for their SD40-2's and apply it to railroads that never owned them like the C&O and WM.

Nothing is going to change as long as Addicts keep purchasing.

@falconservice posted:

I still can not find a SOO LINE GP30 anywhere on the MTH website.

They were built in 1963 by EMD.

I don't care who makes it...Lionel, MTH, or Bachmann, I want one!!!!  (With the proper ALCO trucks).

Glad to see a B&M Guilford.  I prefer B&M or MEC vs the more oft seen D&H.   I hope the scheme ends up being the "Guilford Rail System" with B&M on the cab.  Though the Catalog images are accurate variations.  I would also love to see a late scheme B&M loco with the all blue and simple BM on the nose. 

The UAC Turbos caught my eye. PC or flashy 70's Amtrak....tough choice.  Love the old pics of a dingy brown physical plant north of NYC with the flashy Phase I scheme adapted to the Turbo Train speeding through past a worn out Tower.  Also noted some of the PCs have the PC logo and some do not.

Would be neat to see a fantasy Conrail Turbo Train.  

@Mike W. posted:

Glad to see a B&M Guilford.  I prefer B&M or MEC vs the more oft seen D&H.   I hope the scheme ends up being the "Guilford Rail System" with B&M on the cab.  Though the Catalog images are accurate variations.

I agree, Mike.  The bigger issue to me—and the reason I won’t place a pre-order for these Guilford/B&M engines—is the ACTUAL gray paint color that MTH has applied in the past has not been correct.  I own the GP35’s from several years ago and they are painted a light to medium gray, which is not even close to the darker gray (almost charcoal) color of the Guilford prototypes.  I’ve lived in New England for about 25 years and have never seen a gray Guilford engine in anything but the dark/charcoal color...even when severely weathered!

I hoped MTH would correct their mistake on the recent run of Guilford/D&H GP38-2’s, but when I saw the pictures posted by Mr. Muffin Steve, they were the same light-medium gray as my older GP35’s.  What I find interesting is MTH has once again used the correct dark gray color in their latest catalog images—and has done so in the prior product announcements—but not on the actual production models.

FWIW, Atlas offered some Guilford engines quite a few years ago, and they got the color right...no surprise considering Jim Weaver was in charge at that time!

The MTH 2020 Vol 2 online catalog has been corrected for at least 2 items

1.) The premier twin stack 2 and 5 car sets now say — one 40ft container and one 48ft container

2.) The previously listed premier F3 engine in Milwaukee colors has the title/road name changed also to be Milwaukee and not the Minneapolis & St. Louis 

Also according to some dealers, the printed version will have the corrected items and be available to dealers by the end of this month.

MTH quetion - does the Premier line have road-specific details? 

Might be doing some outdoor O and this is my chance to move into the 60s and 70s with diesels.  

I see they are listing a Reading SD45 and like every RDG diesel it should have the drip rail on the cab roof.   It's not a detail that can be added after painting so it needs to go on as OEM.

One more ?  - when did MTH do the SD45 demonstrators?  I would strongly doubt they have the L cab windows but I need a break from steam era P:48 modeling so I'm willing to look the other way on this one issue. 

MTH did the EMD SD45 demonstrators in 2000.  They were in the RailKing line, are scale sized, but grab irons are molded on.

MTH occasionally does some "tweaking" to locomotive details, but no major road specific detailing like some of the HO companies do.

Rusty

@Rusty Traque posted:

MTH did the EMD SD45 demonstrators in 2000.  They were in the RailKing line, are scale sized, but grab irons are molded on.

MTH occasionally does some "tweaking" to locomotive details, but no major road specific detailing like some of the HO companies do.

Rusty

Thanks!  I was just curious.  I’ll keep an eye out to see if they ever do the -45 Demo in the Premier line.