MTH Amtrak F40PH 20-20682: Amtrak Blue Does Not Match Previous Amtrak Diesels, Cars, etc.

Pictures would be great, especially in this case!

I'm mainly looking for a response from MTH. They know how different the paint is on the new F40PH when compared against every MTH Premier or Railking diesel or passenger car manufactured since I started collecting MTH Amtrak stuff in 2006.

Anyone else who has bought this diesel can attest to how different the shade of blue is on this one compared to any other Amtrak item I've seen.

Could you post comparison pictures?

 I have always thought MTH's blue is a bit dark but within reasonable limits of correct.  I mix in Atlas and other manufacturers Amtrak equipment and there are variances.  In my opinion Atlas got it exactly right on the Horizon Phase 3 cars.  Amtrak equipment on the real railroad varies sometimes.  

 See my youtube video of a mix of MTH and Atlas cars pulled by an MTH Genesis, note the blue stripes.  In this case I think it works for an Amtrak consist.

https://youtu.be/3DHmZGWstUI

When you mention the light blue, are you comparing the different Amtrak phases or schemes?

Is "baby Blue" like it Conrail blue? Maybe Rock Island Bankruptcy Blue?

IS the Blue lighter than these Blue stripes?

In my opinion the shade of blue on my new F40PH is  close to the Rock Island blue in the photo above.

I have MTH Amtrak diesels in every Amtrak paint scheme from Phase I to the Walthers Phase V versions and they all match very closely.

The F40PH is closer to the Rock Island shade of blue.

I'm hoping someone else with the new F40PH like mine will chime in with their opinion. Maybe my eyes are playing tricks on me.

OOPS!! Sorry about that.

I'm referring to the Conrail blue engines in the above photo.

Once again, pictures would really help!

Without side by side photos to show us it is nearly impossible to respond in an intelligent and constructive way. 

I'll post pics when it arrives ( I guess). It must be the wrong shade by the description?

I'm starting to wonder if there's someone new at MTH handling these decisions? (wrong road numbers, paint choices, etc.) New factory issues?

OK, she was at the front door! Somethings rattling? I believe it's just the trucks. The blue stripe is the wrong color to me.

VistaDomeScott posted:

Could you post comparison pictures?

 I have always thought MTH's blue is a bit dark but within reasonable limits of correct.  I mix in Atlas and other manufacturers Amtrak equipment and there are variances.  In my opinion Atlas got it exactly right on the Horizon Phase 3 cars.  Amtrak equipment on the real railroad varies sometimes.  

 See my youtube video of a mix of MTH and Atlas cars pulled by an MTH Genesis, note the blue stripes.  In this case I think it works for an Amtrak consist.

https://youtu.be/3DHmZGWstUI

MTH's blue has been wrong since the beginning of time. Its not just you. They've used something close to Phase IV blue for everything. At some point a couple years ago, they finally figured it out and made a correction, now it seems as though they've overcorrected and taken all of the blue to the earlier shade  rather than having 2 distinct shades (plus the teal on the P42s). 

If a new Phase III engine doesnt match old production phase III cars I wont be surprised, but Phase IV should match within reasonable limits. 

I agree that Atlas' choice of blue is more correct in all phases. 

Well..... ??

It appears to me that the air line hoses maybe made of brass now? They appear more scale like and are very stiff to bend.

I also noticed after seeing the other models posted, that MTH made different details for each roads. The horns on mine are smaller and in the middle of the engine. The Metra posted, has them up front and larger models of them.

I think cab mounting the steps might be my only change.

MTH's blue was always incorrect for Phase I - Phase III locomotives.  It was as dark as the Phase IV paint.  I noticed though that on the heritage Phase III P42, the color blue appears to be much more accurate.  It appears that perhaps the Phase IV F40 PH had a color adjustment too?  Like others have mentioned, it would be good to see the current release model against a prior model in Phase III paint. 

Some comparisons of different manufacturers.  Most have similar lighting conditions except for the first one.

3rd Rail FL9:  I believe this to be the correct shade of blue and red.

WARNING!  Crappy cell phone pics follow.

MTH FP45:  blue is too dark.  It appears to be closer to Phase IV blue.  The red didn't render real well in the photo, but in person it looks good.

K-Line F40PH:  Colors appear correct

MTH F40PH:  Blue appears too dark.

Atlas AEM7:  Color appear correct.

Engineer-Joe posted:

Well..... ??

It appears to me that the air line hoses maybe made of brass now? They appear more scale like and are very stiff to bend.

I also noticed after seeing the other models posted, that MTH made different details for each roads. The horns on mine are smaller and in the middle of the engine. The Metra posted, has them up front and larger models of them.

I think cab mounting the steps might be my only change.

It's nice to see that MTH finally got the steps correct!

The arrow on the fill in for the SDP40F F45 seems small.  Then again, the F45 is a longer carbody.

Dominic Mazoch posted:

The arrow on the fill in for the SDP40F F45 seems small.  Then again, the F45 is a longer carbody.

There is little on this locomotive that is accurate to the SDP40F, but it serves it's role for now as the rear unit on my Amtrak Super Cheif / El Capitan to provide steam heat while the F40PH leads.  I just really posted it for the color of the blue.

I got one video loaded anyways!

Joe,

Yes, you can clearly see the difference between the locomotive and the Atlas Horizon cars.  I will simply say this; mistakes do happen from time to time.  MTH worked really hard to get the details correct on this run overall and they are to be commended for that.  It's a shame that this particular version has the wrong shade of blue.  I know from experience that the factory can and does change colors without letting anyone know.  Unfortunately it puts MTH in a very tough position because I'm sure in the factory Amtrak blue is Amtrak blue to them regardless of what instruction they may have received.  To anyone no familiar with the prototype, I can see  how this might happen.

MTH fixes the blue on the wrong phase of Amtrak! Urrggg.

There is a lot of positives on this release. I do like the detailing and sound set.

The blue stripe on my old MTH Amtrak (Phase I?) cars is very dark. I think they used that blue on many releases?

The horizon car is from Atlas to show the color variations. All the other Amtrak is MTH.

I was really on the fence trying to decide which one to order III or IV. 50/50 split. I tossed a coin.

I should have went with the Phase III but who knew!

Engineer-Joe posted:

Well..... ??

Wow, that color is way off. Not even close. Ouch!! I'd send it back.

Thanks for the photos. 

Well I hope the Lionel Legacy F40 thats coming soon has the correct blue (in phase 3), I know it will!!!!!

Engineer-Joe posted:

Well..... ??

It appears to me that the air line hoses maybe made of brass now? They appear more scale like and are very stiff to bend.

I also noticed after seeing the other models posted, that MTH made different details for each roads. The horns on mine are smaller and in the middle of the engine. The Metra posted, has them up front and larger models of them.

I think cab mounting the steps might be my only change.

Yeah, that is baby blue, way off.

I have an older version of this same engine, on both of them there is more space between the front truck and the chassis than the rear truck, you can see it in this photo. Looks like it's poppin a wheelie coming down the tracks.

GG1 4877 posted:

.....

MTH FP45:  blue is too dark.  It appears to be closer to Phase IV blue.  The red didn't render real well in the photo, but in person it looks good.

Jonathan, One thing about this one I believe anyways, is it would be easier to fix. The dark blue might be painted over using some masking to help guys like me with unsteady hands.

 Craig, I can always add a piece of plastic for the gap. See Rich B.'s site. I have to believe it's bigger for three rail wheeled versions.

 I'm not sure I can even attempt to fix the color on the new MTH version as the stripe (with white decals) would be much more difficult and the blue Amtrak lettering would need to be fixed as well to match.

I sent an email to the dealer but I don't feel it's his problem. I think MTH needs to fix this. I'm betting they won't. So I may have to live with the color or attempt a feeble repair?

Another joy of pre-ordering!

as far as the gap is concerned, I saw it when I looked at a quick glance too. Here's a side shot for consideration. I believe it's just an illusion?

Nope...not an illusion.

Engineer-Joe posted:

GG1 4877 posted:

.....

MTH FP45:  blue is too dark.  It appears to be closer to Phase IV blue.  The red didn't render real well in the photo, but in person it looks good.

Jonathan, One thing about this one I believe anyways, is it would be easier to fix. The dark blue might be painted over using some masking to help guys like me with unsteady hands.

 Craig, I can always add a piece of plastic for the gap. See Rich B.'s site. I have to believe it's bigger for three rail wheeled versions.

 I'm not sure I can even attempt to fix the color on the new MTH version as the stripe (with white decals) would be much more difficult and the blue Amtrak lettering would need to be fixed as well to match.

I sent an email to the dealer but I don't feel it's his problem. I think MTH needs to fix this. I'm betting they won't. So I may have to live with the color or attempt a feeble repair?

Another joy of pre-ordering!

You can always sell it on EBay, or the Buy-Sell Forum here. I am sure most wouldn't know or care about the weird color.

Personally the darker blue on the FP45 doesn't bother me.  It's so far off the prototype SDP40F that it's standing in for, I'm not concerned at this point.  The lighter blue on the Phase IV F40PH would be bothersome to me.  Go figure!

Craignor posted:

Nope...not an illusion.

Well I had to go check. The front of the shell sits 1mm higher than the rear. Yet the gap between the trucks is less than 1mm difference.

There seems to be something in the way the frame is made, that the shell sits on differently up front. They made adjustments to it, but not quite enough.

For some reason the front coupler is way higher than the rear? More than the difference in the shell anyways. I can always add a shim. I must be overlooking something. The 1mm doesn't bother me too much.

 I'm looking closer at body mounting the cab steps. I would loose much turning clearance. I believe the truck's side frames would have to be brought way in to allow for more swing if the steps were body mounted. It maybe doable, but not until I hear something from MTH about the paint.

I think I'm going to need Amtrak IV O scale decals in addition to the ones I need for G scale now. More fun!

https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/topic/f40ph-build

southernryamtrakfan posted:

.....

I have MTH Amtrak diesels in every Amtrak paint scheme from Phase Ito the Walthers Phase V versions and they all match very closely.

......

I think this statement is what got it going on the wrong track! The blue should not match on all the phases. As others have posted here, MTH's old choice of dark blue used almost universally was the problem. So I thought you were implying they (all scheme's blue ) should all match each other!

 Now it appears to me that they are chasing the fix to the issue. I can see changes made over the models in an attempt to fix it.

For the people that follow Amtrak, it is a glaring mistake that they finally used a light blue on the wrong phase! It would probably have been good for the early stripes. It should be dark for Phase IV ( this engine's version) if I am correct.

That would be the same blue that they used on the old models.

Edit: you know that Lionel, K-Line, Atlas, Aristocraft, LGB, .... etc., got it right! 

Hmmm, MTH G scale too.

please look at this for colors

http://www.trainweb.org/amtrak...es/paintschemes.html

Looks like they used Metra blue

Tom N

I just opened my new MTH F40PH's Blue color is horrible, I hope MTH will stand up and offer a shell exchange with a better matching color.  Would like color to match Super Liners, MTH and K-Line, The MTH P42's from 15years ago match the K-Line 21" cars close enough.  

Thanks Joe for the picture references, I think the F40 '2000'  picture is a much better color choice for this paint scheme. The picture of the old F40 scheme color is close to this color, but not right for this scheme.          

The Locomotive detail level is improved from the previous offerings,  a plus is the  trucks (3 rail) are closer to scale axel spacing 9' + , the old trucks had incorrect 8'. The horn on top appears a bit small, can't say scale or not.

I hoped MTH would use the correct Truck axel spacing on the most recent F59 however they failed, same old under sized, they really look bad on the F59, looks like it is on small undersized roller skates.

Ya never know what your going to get when open the box of chocolates.

Happy Rails, Deano

Amtrak F40PH is so old at this point the paint has faded.

Faded, yeah.

I mean,.... Really?

HELLO! Is there anybody home?

Hey Joe I'm home

I tried lowering the shell on my fp40 moved it some. Like you said something in there is holding the shell up. I removed the smoke funnel but that wasn't it. I took off the side step that screws on, that helped but not enough. I noticed the plastic body mounts where of different heights, so i made them all match the lower ones in the back, that helped a little but still not right. My coupler height was way off also, now it is better, my other fp40 the twin to this is level. I got the other paint job.

Clem

Thanks Clem, I too grinded down the body post some, cut away to make room for the step, and then still had to add a shim to get the front coupler downward to the correct height.

 All that doesn't bother me. It's the blue, and the lack of any reply at all. I keep defending them.

5 out of 5 engines in a row now, I have had to work on or aren't right.

 I tried ordering Amtrak IV decals and will have to scab together something to fix this one too. I can't find the correct set.

I will tear my brand new BigBoy apart next, just like all the others. I have to figure out why she doesn't smoke correctly.

Photos taken outside today, overcast not bright sun. MTH recent release and Atlas CZ car. This is the other paint scheme, so this may be irrelevant.

Clem 

We are talking about the latest MTH F40PH release of Version IV Amtrak blue only.

I would bet on his(hers?), is the same as mine!

(Maybe I got a custom or rejected model???)

Joe... I kinda knew that, so even this blue from the latest release is wrong for your version ? 

How about MTH opens one they have in stock and compare it to their own cars they have released in Phase IV paint.

Someone at MTH must be aware or does not care to look. 

Baby blue is not correct for phase IV. After years of people telling them their blue used on earlier phases was too dark, they swapped the wrong phase!

Phase IV is darker blue.

How can anyone pre-order cars now in Phase IV not knowing what they will receive? 

MTH needs to reply, period.

Either say it was a mistake, or say that the rest of phase IV production going forward will be this new color blue.....

or just hope it goes away? 

ANYBODY???? 

Joe and Marty.  I live down the road from the Amtrak engine facility.  My intention was to get a real photo to match the photo the poster was going to hopefully put up.  That is off the table.  I am pulling all my comments from this post and will be more careful getting involved with posts like this in the future.

Sorry Marty, I didn't know why you chose this post, although the originator has since vanished. So for that, you are correct.

However if anyone from MTH would take a look, I'd be curious to see what they would reply. 

It does take some reading to understand the issue

"

Joe,  the forum has many of these people who like to complain about a product and when asked to put up a picture they fade away.    Do they really own the locomotive or is this another undocumented shot at MTH?  

Yes, but I posted pics of the actual engine. I support MTH as much as I can. There are some that take shots at me for doing that. I'm used to it.

This color blue is so far off for phase IV that it has to be a mistake. The funny thing that was already mentioned, is it appears that they just got the phases wrong. The blue that was used would match a different phase where MTH used the wrong one in the past.