I just heard from an informed source that MTH is not releasing a S Gauge catalog till June or July. Has anyone heard this or some other date?
This is real discouraging as they have been pushing a new catalog out for at least 3 years.
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This gives me confidence in my decision to look elsewhere (HO) for new product satisfaction.
Ben
Sounds like the same "kick the can down the road" gibberish they told everyone about the 2016 S-Fest cars.
At one time I was an ardent spokesperson for the wonderful things MTH was going to do for the S scale world when they bought out SHS.
No more.
Their complete lack of attention to our scale has soured me on any hope MTH will produce new S scale product or even revamped SHS product.
I think their focus has been on the DCS APP development for some time now. Too bad a shrinking S scale customer base won't wait around to use it.
Lionel's development of FlyerChief for the S scale line has left MTH in the dust IMO. It's simple and it works.
Maybe MTH will turn things around in the future but I doubt it.
Mark
Still waiting for my 2016 MTH Railroaders Club boxcar. Or reefer. I forget. And they wonder why I didn't renew.
Roundhouse Bill posted:I just heard from an informed source that MTH is not releasing a S Gauge catalog till June or July. Has anyone heard this or some other date?
This is real discouraging as they have been pushing a new catalog out for at least 3 years.
Ah, the old 6 month punt. Must be being done on the same production line as the F3's... 
MTH has effectively squandered SHS's reputation.
At least American Models has sent out a latest products flyer the last few Decembers. The latest highlights the Seaboard set. Other than that there's nothing really new, but they at least maintain some contact with the customers in their file.
Rusty
DITTO!
Sounds like the same "kick the can down the road" gibberish they told everyone about the 2016 S-Fest cars.
At one time I was an ardent spokesperson for the wonderful things MTH was going to do for the S scale world when they bought out SHS.
No more.
Their complete lack of attention to our scale has soured me on any hope MTH will produce new S scale product or even revamped SHS product.
I think their focus has been on the DCS APP development for some time now. Too bad a shrinking S scale customer base won't wait around to use it.
Lionel's development of FlyerChief for the S scale line has left MTH in the dust IMO. It's simple and it works.
Maybe MTH will turn things around in the future but I doubt it.
Mark
Ray
Having met Mike Wolf and company many times during the 90s at the Fort Washington East Coast Modelers show, I realized that when he got a hold of S Helper that it wasn't going anywhere. It was more of a strategic move to block Lionel/Flyer, Fortunately for S, Lionel threw a "Hail Mary" pass with the Berk and Flyerchief and probably saved the scale. To be honest, I don't think even Lionel realized how much demand there could be for good, original product.
After conversations with Dave & Ryan at York, I have a feeling they are beginning to see the potential of S. The February catalog will tell the tale and probably decide the fate of S.
Keep in mind that it usually take a year and a half to two years before we (customers) receive the product, which ties in with the time it took for reruns of the Flyerchief Berk.
Finally, with movement in S, this may tempt Wolf and company to take S seriously, but who knows.
I am also hopeful for American Models, they do some good stuff, but the plastic couplers on four wheel passenger cars is a problem. The easy fix is to offer metal replace couplers (they won't droop). Let's hope they monitor this site.
HAPPY NEW YEAR - S Fans!
I think MTH had also hoped their HO DCS would work in S. When not robust enough the need for new meant additional investments and delay.
Believe it or not, S has been through leaner times than this. There was a time when there was no new Flyer being made, no AM and no SHS.
I'm not sure we can credit FlyerChief Berks and Geeps to "saving" the scale, but they certainly have made things more interesting. And something more interesting is much better than nothing.
After playing with a FlyerChief Geep for a little while, I find it's a very nice system for it's overall ease of operation. The GP7 certainly (and I assume other F/C locomotives) runs better under FlyerChief control than conventional. Even an old curmudgeon like me enjoyed operating it.
The big drawback is one locomotive, one controller. Even with the universal remote, if Lionel were to come out with different locomotives than the GP7 in the same roads, you can't MU them. The only way to MU locomotives is if they are of the same roadname and number.
A second drawback is there isn't (and isn't likely to be) any aftermarket F/C upgrade to other models (like AM) to FlyerChief.
Now, the HO Polar Express was supposedly DCC compatible. If true and if incorporated into the FlyerChief electronics, this could make some inroads for those that like to run multiple locomotives on one train.
Now, (VERY BIG) IF Lionel were to do something like re-release the U33C in FlyerChief with DCC compatibility and optional Scale conversion, they could hit gold (or at least pyrite...
) while MTH still scratches at the ground.
Rusty
Hi Rusty,
Why I believe that Flyerchief & Berks saved S is because it brought people like me, who were casual observers from other scales, into the S fold. I have 2 Flyerchief engines and 2 50s DCC updated engines with 2 more Flyerchief on order. How long could S have continued on old stuff from the 50s with small smattering re-released products?
I know alot of people from other scales who are now seriously looking to see what comes next in S, and if they see a trend toward expansion, they will convert to S. The concern (as we all know) is lack of product choices - favorite roads, engines etc. Once the dam of lack of product begins to crack, a flood of new customers is possible. Why? for the reason we all say over and over - S is not too big, not too small, it should be the go to scale.
I am hoping that American Models will offer something new in steam, or maybe work with Lionel to offer a "Flyerchief" option for their engines, Either one would be a boost to S Gauge. Remember Lionel offered TMCC to K-Line and Atlas O back in the late 90s.
I am still hoping someone does a Reading T1 in the future.
I would think if one was looking at S and wondering when the best time to jump in....it would have been in 2012. That catalogue made it seem like the sky was the limit and that Lionel was in a faithful marriage to S. FlyerChief seems more like a very narrowed and limited strike to the S gauge market. Not an overall grand expansion. I’m not knocking it, I like the Berk and the update of the Flyonel tradional tooling. But this fails in grandeur compared to Challengers, Mikados, U33s, ES44s and SD70s. THATS when I felt we were going places!
IF Lionel tools another NEW locomotive to run FC in then maybe Francine is onto something....
Ben
I'm pretty much aware of the abilities and limitations of the"Chief" control by following the 3rail side.
It seems the 3railer's gave been trying to convince Lionel to add more features. "Legacy Lite" if you will.
The folks at Lionel have given no indication of expanding the system.
Rusty
I appreciate what FC has done to the Flyonel product line up and S gauge in general. For me, however, the dawning of TMCC in S-gauge in 2005 and the subsequent introduction of Legacy are what saved the scale for me. Right about that time I was starting to wonder if Gilbert Flyer alone was going to be enough to keep me heavily involved in just "S" for the foreseeable future. Add to that my envy of O gauge having already had TMCC for 10 years and the seemingly limitless variety of engines and rolling stock in HO, and my S-treadfastness was starting to waiver. Since then, however, a variety of TMCC, Legacy, DCC, other-brand conventionally controlled, and conventionally controlled engines that I converted to TMCC have kept me happily specialized in S gauge without interruption. I don't own any FC. It's not that I don't like it or think that it looks like fun. It's just that whenever I get the chance to run my double-header of N&W Mallets, or double-header of LV ES44, or a Challenger, Pacific, SD70, U-boat, Mikado, etc., I go - why bother? To me they collectively represent the pinnacle of S loco's so far.
BTW, I think the ES44's come the closest to "getting it all right" in terms of a truly RTR engine that stays that way. I haven't had to work on mine or send them back (fingers crossed). The Mallets come in at a close 2nd. They're beautifully built. I've only had to enhance their smoke production.
I don't own or plan to own MTH S other than some track to augment the SHS S-trax that I already have. Nothing wrong with it I suppose, just not interested in DCS and I already have an adequate number of SHS engines -- many of which I've converted to TMCC. And some of which I've already sold off.
Now don't get me wrong. All of this would be lost if it weren't for the Gilbert AF that I have and enjoy running. They are the bedrock or foundation of it all that continues to fascinate and please me no end.
Dave
Getting back to MTH. Here's what former SHS I figure hasn't been re-released by MTH yet:
Locomotives: F7A&B, SW1, SW8, SW9, NW2, 2-8-0.
Freight cars: EV Caboose, Twin Open Hopper (Offset Side, Composite, Panel Side, USRA Rib Side,) Twin USRA Hopper w/Cover, 40' Wood Stock Car, 40' Double Sheath Wood Box Car, 40' Outside Braced Wood Box Car, 53' Standard Flat Car, 53' Bulkhead Flat Car, P/S Three Bay Covered Hopper.
So, MTH has a looooong way to go if a new catalog ever shows up. At the current rate it'll probably be another 20 years before the entire former SHS line will have been re-released.
Therefore, I'm not holding my breath for either product or catalog.
Rusty
New bulkheads and a center beam are not on the 53' flat car. You'd need another car for them. I'd rather have no product than inaccurate product.
The problem is, MTH has put out a pretty good S Scale product when they finally do put something out. They even honored the warranty on one of my F3's, even though I was obviously poking around with the wiring.
But, even the most staunch supporters of MTH's acquisition of the SHS line have just about given up. As Mark indicated: "Have money, will spend" doesn't seem to carry any weight with MTH with regards to S.
The last "new" S product from MTH was the piggy-back car, and that was about 18 months ago. Even that wasn't without controversy because of the use of the "O27" RailKing trailer. (Yeah, yeah... I know it matches the dimensions of a contemporary trailer.) Since then, not a peep, other than the "Less than 5 in stock" weekly emails...
Folks in S tend to have long memories. Once burned, it's hard to get back in their good graces. It's not necessarily right, but second chances are hard to come by in S.
Given the glacial pace of the S releases, it's up to MTH to turn things around, not the customer base.
Rusty
Well, that CN car is a one roadname prototype. And definitely not representative of the other 99.9999% of centerbeam cars. Even being a 53' car, the sidesills on the CN are different from the SHS/MTH car.
Just trying not to encourage manufacturers to take flights of fancy in their offerings.
The S in S Scale should stand for Superb, not Slapped-together.
banjoflyer posted:The true centerbeam was a structural part of the frame and allowed longer cars to carry heavier loads. I'd be OK with the above car as substitute for a centerbeam car. Longer cars will of course pose problems for those operators who use r20 curves either original Gilbert or later track such as SHS/MTH or Fastrack. Right now we have NO product and I'm not pleased with that.
Mark
I seem to remember something about a year ago where the Flyonel O27 autoracks scaled out to about 68' long in S and were no trouble on R20...
I know the 75' AM Budd cars will negotiate R20 with no problem, but may hit the AF switch motor housings. I also know they scrape the SHS switch stand.
So it would seem reasonable to say anything a scale 70' long in S should have no trouble on R20 curves. Anything in the 60'-65' range even better.
Rusty
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Roundhouse Bill posted:I just heard from an informed source that MTH is not releasing a S Gauge catalog till June or July. Has anyone heard this or some other date?
This is real discouraging as they have been pushing a new catalog out for at least 3 years.
How SAD that they let all that S helper tooling sit idle with no effort to revitalize S gauge. Looks like they have surrendered this gauge to Lionel. I hope Lionel continues to produce Flyerchief locomotives.
Sgaugian posted:I appreciate what FC has done to the Flyonel product line up and S gauge in general. For me, however, the dawning of TMCC in S-gauge in 2005 and the subsequent introduction of Legacy are what saved the scale for me. Right about that time I was starting to wonder if Gilbert Flyer alone was going to be enough to keep me heavily involved in just "S" for the foreseeable future. Add to that my envy of O gauge having already had TMCC for 10 years and the seemingly limitless variety of engines and rolling stock in HO, and my S-treadfastness was starting to waiver. Since then, however, a variety of TMCC, Legacy, DCC, other-brand conventionally controlled, and conventionally controlled engines that I converted to TMCC have kept me happily specialized in S gauge without interruption. I don't own any FC. It's not that I don't like it or think that it looks like fun. It's just that whenever I get the chance to run my double-header of N&W Mallets, or double-header of LV ES44, or a Challenger, Pacific, SD70, U-boat, Mikado, etc., I go - why bother? To me they collectively represent the pinnacle of S loco's so far.
BTW, I think the ES44's come the closest to "getting it all right" in terms of a truly RTR engine that stays that way. I haven't had to work on mine or send them back (fingers crossed). The Mallets come in at a close 2nd. They're beautifully built. I've only had to enhance their smoke production.
I don't own or plan to own MTH S other than some track to augment the SHS S-trax that I already have. Nothing wrong with it I suppose, just not interested in DCS and I already have an adequate number of SHS engines -- many of which I've converted to TMCC. And some of which I've already sold off.
Now don't get me wrong. All of this would be lost if it weren't for the Gilbert AF that I have and enjoy running. They are the bedrock or foundation of it all that continues to fascinate and please me no end.
Dave
Completely agree Dave (except for the minor point about MTH/DCS which I have now added to my layout - chose it over adding LCS so I could run my TMCC, Legacy and DCS locos all from same app).
One of the big crying shames here is SHS caboose. For my money, in plastic, I have not seen anything in any other scale that beats its detail. I loved it.
Ben
banjoflyer posted:NotInWI posted:One of the big crying shames here is SHS caboose. For my money, in plastic, I have not seen anything in any other scale that beats its detail. I loved it.
Ben
Amen, brother. I bought one road number of every paint scheme they offered in the extended vision caboose and they are without equal in S scale. AM cabeese have their place and Flyer cabeese are still rather toy-like. It seems the MTH business model of "Profit...Schmofit!...who needs it?" is wacky.
Mark
You'd have thought there would have been a caboose release with the F3's. Seaboard had International Car Co. EV cabooses like the SHS model and Santa Fe had similar EV cabooses.
While the NYC, PRR and UP never owned any Extended Vision cabooses, that never stopped many of the train manufacturers before.
Rusty
I wonder if MTH just bought SHS as a test of the S scale waters and released just enough new products to cover their initial costs when those items sold out, and now has decided that there isn't really enough money/volume/interest there to be wildly profitable. If they own the SHS tooling at little to no cost, at least no one else can use it to compete against them.
MTH posts here so I wounder if they are listening?????
If you are why don't you say something encouraging to us MTH??????
Roundhouse Bill posted:MTH posts here so I wounder if they are listening?????
If you are why don't you say something encouraging to us MTH??????
I suspect that if they engage in conversation then they will always be on the back foot with regards to the questions being asked. To say nothing keeps the status quo and keeps everyone guessing still and speculating.
Or going back to my original post, they don't care because they only wanted to block Lionel from acquiring S Helper. You know Lionel would have manufactured them for sale, maybe not quickly, but steadily.
I don't think Lionel would have had any interest in S Helper. Why would they since they own American Flyer. S Helper was a small player in a small market. Their tooling would have meant nothing to Lionel as they had all their own for similar product items.
So many guys who write here are scale people and really liked S Helper. In the larger S market including American Flyer post war guys S Helper wasn't bought much. I think MTH got in easy, not paying much, just to test the S Market. It seems that S is just a priority for now or maybe forever.
Bill
Why would Lionel produce K Line, or buy Weaver, when Lionel already has their own line of O Gauge tooling??? Expanding a product portfolio is expanding. At this point, I agree, Lionel would have made better use of the SHS tooling. Lionel could have called it “Flyer-Sacle”. Wonder where I got that one.
I would also argue that anyone who was buying Flyonel for the past 30plus years, likley also bought something by SHS and AM. I think the only “purist” in S Gauge (not scale mind you) is the old AC Gilbert or bust guys.
Ben
Roundhouse Bill postedSo many guys who write here are scale people and really liked S Helper. In the larger S market including American Flyer post war guys S Helper wasn't bought much. I think MTH got in easy, not paying much, just to test the S Market. It seems that S is just a priority for now or maybe forever.
It definitely wasn't the scale guys keeping SHS in business. Like AM, about 85% of SHS's sales were to HI rail and Flyer guys.
Rusty
I just started in flyer 2 years ago, but am leaning toward FlyerChief Engines with S Helper Cars. People seem to have them at the shows - a little on the expensive side, but worth it. Planning to get rid of most of the hold Flyer for new Flyonel, S helper and AM cars. They look and roll much better.
I have not changed my perspective. We have 34 guys in our club. Some have bought AM stuff including me. Only 1 has S Helper (because he is a scale guy at home) and none bought an F3 but me. All have Gilbert and Flionel.
Roundhouse Bill posted:I have not changed my perspective. We have 34 guys in our club. Some have bought AM stuff including me. Only 1 has S Helper (because he is a scale guy at home) and none bought an F3 but me. All have Gilbert and Flionel.
Maybe in your little corner of the world, but I'm sure Don Thompson would dispute your perspective. In talking with him at an S Fest long ago about possible new products, Don once specifically said the prototypes he chose were because they were size compatible with Flyer. Being taller, only the piggy back and bulkhead flatcars broke away from that plan.
Don knew where the bread and butter was.
Rusty
Rusty Traque posted:Roundhouse Bill posted:I have not changed my perspective. We have 34 guys in our club. Some have bought AM stuff including me. Only 1 has S Helper (because he is a scale guy at home) and none bought an F3 but me. All have Gilbert and Flionel.
Maybe in your little corner of the world, but I'm sure Don Thompson would dispute your perspective. In talking with him at an S Fest long ago about possible new products, Don once specifically said the prototypes he chose were because they were size compatible with Flyer. Being taller, only the piggy back and bulkhead flatcars broke away from that plan.
Don knew where the bread and butter was.
Rusty
To add to what Rusty said - Why do you think S Helper chose to outfit their products with Hi Rail wheels and Flyer compatible couplers? Ready to run out of the box for Hi Railers, but Scalers had to switch out the wheelsets and purchase their own couplers. The only exception was the 2-8-0 which could be ordered as Hi Rail or Scale.
Mike A.
HEY you guys.......I buy what I like........and I like all S gauge products......
Time is over ! At the extremly shrinking market of modelrailroads "S" is a dead horse and will not survive. Other, more popular scales, have the same problems. A friend, a major producer for brass parts here in Germany, told me that the annual sales brake down from 400000 USD to less than 8000 USD in the last 10-15 years. "S" is no longer a commercial interesting product for the mass production manufactors...
'S' stands for survivor, so let's see what happens over the next few years and not make any rash statements at the moment.
'S' has plodded along through some tough times in the past but has always maintained a loyal following which believes in its future.
BigAl posted:Time is over ! At the extremly shrinking market of modelrailroads "S" is a dead horse and will not survive. Other, more popular scales, have the same problems. A friend, a major producer for brass parts here in Germany, told me that the annual sales brake down from 400000 USD to less than 8000 USD in the last 10-15 years. "S" is no longer a commercial interesting product for the mass production manufactors...
I dunno...
Back in the day, A.C. Gilbert was the only mass marketer of S Gauge trains. Everyone else was pretty much "cottage industries."
A.C. Gilbert shut it's doors in 1967. There were no new American Flyer trains (such as it was, a gondola, a box car, a tank car and a caboose) until 1979 by Lionel. American Models didn't hit the street until around 1982. SHS was originally a small cottage industry under a different name making kits of interesting quality before "helping" AM introduce some new products and finally offering their own products around 1989.
Even though they're hardly ever talked about compared to Lionel and MTH, sumptin's goin' on if American Models was recently able to build and move into a larger building.
S is more like a cat with 9 lives and it hasn't reached #9 yet.
Rusty
BIGAL, you are such a pessimist!!! S is not dying any faster than the whole toy train hobby. The problem is that the people who love "Toy Trains" are dying.
At 72 I am one of them that can see the end of their rails. With this happening I have to believe that the toy trains we leave behind will find new hands to play with them. I am a member of most every Flyer and S Gauge group on Facebook. There are a lot of people out there in these groups more than write here. And yes a lot of them are younger. There is a future for Toy Trains!!
Roundhouse Bill posted:BIGAL, you are such a pessimist!!! S is not dying any faster than the whole toy train hobby. The problem is that the people who love "Toy Trains" are dying.
At 72 I am one of them that can see the end of their rails. With this happening I have to believe that the toy trains we leave behind will find new hands to play with them. I am a member of most every Flyer and S Gauge group on Facebook. There are a lot of people out there in these groups more than write here. And yes a lot of them are younger. There is a future for Toy Trains!!
S is the new OO. Sorry to say it but it just is. Enjoy what you have because there won't be much new coming. Especially if you are more scale oriented.
It isn't about being pessimistic or optimistic, when the ship starts taking on water it is sinking... positive or negative won't change the fact.
With Lionel not doing a separate 2018 Flyer catalog maybe MTH will put S in their O Gauge 2018 catalog?
Roundhouse Bill posted:With Lionel not doing a separate 2018 Flyer catalog maybe MTH will put S in their O Gauge 2018 catalog?
Fat chance...
Rusty
I agree with Rusty, for the reason that I stated before, MTH only wanted to block Lionel from obtaining S Helper - it was a strategic business move, although I hope I am wrong.
If you don't see at more than 4 pages of S, MTH is only committing to enough to say they are in S. 4 pages would be only 4 products - a joke.
Any one who wants s gauge,there is more out there we can afford to buy finding it is easy , i hope they will still make it,but if they don't good used s gauge will always be out there to buy
Francine posted:I agree with Rusty, for the reason that I stated before, MTH only wanted to block Lionel from obtaining S Helper - it was a strategic business move, although I hope I am wrong.
If you don't see at more than 4 pages of S, MTH is only committing to enough to say they are in S. 4 pages would be only 4 products - a joke.
Sorry, but Don T had a hard time peddling SHS. Lionel wasn't interested.
Rusty
Rusty,
That's ashamed to hear that no one wanted S helper. They, Lionel, MTH, Train America, K-line and many others attended the East Coast Hobby show in Fort Washington.
I was very temped, at that time, to switch over to S, but didn't - I didn't know anyone doing it.
Made some great friends there, Nick Ladd, Mike Reagan and others. Sorely missed.
Doug-Sr posted:Any one who wants s gauge,there is more out there we can afford to buy finding it is easy , i hope they will still make it,but if they don't good used s gauge will always be out there to buy
Well... must depend on one's S persuasion. I was into the scale side of S when I tried to do S scale. I most certainly did not find things plentiful. I looked for several years to find even ONE of these:
And it wasn't CHEAP once I did find one. Finding enough of the above to even represent a couple/three of the Kansas City Terminal's S-2's was out of the question.
Then there was the issue of lack of variety, but no need to go there.
S scale really is a great size. It is such a shame that it has never really taken off, and that is has received the shaft over and over again.
Andre
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Dont think i said a brass s2 was easy to find or cheap i said S gauge was easy to find and i stand by that after being in s gauge and o for 70 years Mr Laming
laming posted:Doug-Sr posted:Any one who wants s gauge,there is more out there we can afford to buy finding it is easy , i hope they will still make it,but if they don't good used s gauge will always be out there to buy
Well... must depend on one's S persuasion. I was into the scale side of S when I tried to do S scale. I most certainly did not find things plentiful. I looked for several years to find even ONE of these:
And it wasn't CHEAP once I did find one. Finding enough of the above to even represent a couple/three of the Kansas City Terminal's S-2's was out of the question.
Then there was the issue of lack of variety, but no need to go there.
S scale really is a great size. It is such a shame that it has never really taken off, and that is has received the shaft over and over again.
Andre
That was my experience as well Andre.
If you are interested in the scale side of S you better like frustration and be willing to pay for it. If you are lucky enough that what you want was actually been made then you will have to #1 Find someone with one that wants to sell it and #2 pay whatever they want for it.
Example: GP30's are my favorite diesel. Greenbrier made them in brass in S scale. I paid $750 for an unpainted model with no electronics, no lights, and no sound. To get all of that done and painted puts the total at around $1500 for that engine. In HO I purchased a Walthers Proto GP30 which is better detailed than the Greenbrier was and it was already painted with lights. I installed a $125 DCC decoder and speaker and all in I paid about $250. Did I mention that the HO model runs better and quieter AND I didn't have to go on some grand search to find it in someone's collection and pry it from their fingers?
How about a second example? Omnicon S PRR K4 - unpainted bought from brasstrains. Paid $850 it got to me and had fallen apart during shipping. I sent it back. Vs. Bachmann Spectrum HO PRR K4 - $250 with DCC/Sound (TCS) runs like a Swiss watch and sounds great.
S is the best scale that will never be for me. I wish it would get better, but with Lionel and MTH behaving the way they are I'm pretty sure the best days are behind us.
I still think there's opportunity with the scale side if things. A decent s scale loco is still cheaper than an o scale one. That's one of the reasons I changed from N to S instead of O. The scale SHS switchers and rolling stock, even second hand ones were cheaper than the scale Atlas ones. That and I could build a larger layout in the space.
Anyway, back the the original topic. If someone like MTH really wants to expand the scale, I would offer a ready to run, rechargable battery powered, radio controlled locomotive. Just think, no track wiring, no worries about dirt, no real issues with running more than one train at a time.
The current state of S kind of reminds me of the state of N when I first started in model railroading many moons ago. There wasn't a whole lot of variety, and what was available that was decent running and looking was expensive. It was pretty much Trix engines and MicroTrains or Atlas rolling stock .
S is a perfect size for me, but I really enjoy kitbashing and scratchbuilding. That approach is not everyone's cup o' tea.
OK, This is about MTH Catalog guys. Start your own subject on this brass stuff.
Roundhouse Bill posted:OK, This is about MTH Catalog guys. Start your own subject on this brass stuff.
Does it really matter?
I think it's safe to say we're all extremely disappointed in MTH's approach to S and are looking for alternatives where ever they may be.
Rusty
Mikes mite not make a lot but they do have one very nice engine plus a lot of cars,track and switches be happy for that
Doug-Sr posted:Mikes mite not make a lot but they do have one very nice engine plus a lot of cars,track and switches be happy for that
Yes, MTH made one locomotive (the F3's) and it took over four years to get them out using former SHS tooling. I'll grant the MTH F3's look and run every bit as good as their SHS fore-bearers.
Since the 2013 catalog, there have been no new roadnames for the products cataloged in 2013 and only one new product flyer (the piggy back flat) in 2016. (Since 2013, American Models announced the Seaboard S12 and T&P GP9 "sets", new roadnames for the GG1's, developed the Budd dome cars and RS11's.)
When SHS owned (and developed) the tooling, there was usually one new product announced and new roadnames for existing products every year. SHS catalogs came out annually.
SHS developed 4 different EMD switchers, F3's, F7's, a 2-8-0, about 15 different freight cars, a caboose and the track. All this is in MTH's hands now and what they have released so far pales by comparison.
Now, I never expected MTH to re-release everything at once and even allowing for time to fit the former SHS products into their methods, it seems MTH is working S in geological time.
MTH also owes one club a convention car from around 2 years ago.
Plus, I think at least 2 delivery dates have slipped by for a new catalog. The last one was December 2017.
This is why S folks get a little grumbly with MTH...
Rusty
Some people are just to negative to enjoy this hobby
Gee!
Doug-Sr posted:Some people are just to negative to enjoy this hobby
Gee!
Nope... love the hobby. Having a great time and spending lots of money in HO scale.
For me it simply turned out that once I understood firsthand all the issues within S scale, said issues pretty much killed my intention to do my "model railroading thang" via the scale persuasion of S.
Whereas I could have enjoyed scale S, my decision to leave is S scale's loss, not mine.
Andre
if you love ho so much why are you not spending your time, in an ho forum and quit bashing s gauge and its manufacturers
Doug
I don’t think that is quite a fair evaluation of the situation. We are (or were) consumers of the product that is being produced. Sharing the concerns, frustrations and experiences that people have had with product in this hobby specific to S is exactly what this little community is about.
Your view is different than others. So what. If not for the ability to grieve the shortcomings of S and it’s place in the hobby, how will we keep it around?
Ben
Nope... love the hobby. Having a great time and spending lots of money in HO scale
My eyes ceased supporting HO years ago.
Rich
My, my, "DOUG-SR", a bit sensitive, there, aren't you? Apparently you find those that have had different experiences (or preferences) than yours offensive?
Before you get your panties in too much of a wad, bear in mind that my experiences/comments pertain to the scale side of S, not the hi-rail/AF side. I suspect your interest in S lies within the hi-rail/AF persuasion? If so, you DO have it much better than those that invested into the scale side of S and, after many $$, found that it was not going to be able to deliver regarding their "givens n' druthers" and personal preferences. Had hi-rail/AF been my thing... I'm sure my experiences would have differed significantly than what I experienced in the scale side.
FWIW: Back when I was involved in scale S and trying to make a go of it, there were several others here doing likewise. We all had a pretty good camaraderie going. In fact, the scale guys and the hi-rail/AF guys co-existed together nicely. We would cheer for both sides and be happy when someone scored a touchdown.
In fact, "back then" we all pretty much felt it was going to be a great boon to S (both scale and hi-rail) when MTH purchased the stagnated SHS line and we were cautiously optimistic about S scale's future.
Then the delays started... the missed schedules... on and on. That's when some of the other scale S guys also began to suspect that very little, if any, new product for scale S was going to be coming down the pike any time soon. Unfortunately, as the drought continued, one by one some of the scale guys fell by the wayside and moved on to other scales due to some of the issues I (and others) have mentioned. Even some of the most stalwart scale S guys began to get discouraged. Eventually, I too had to face the facts that I would not be able to do the things I wanted to do in scale S on account of lack of variety and lack of product. So, I left the scale also and went back to HO. Simply put: Some of us are at the age that IF we're going to get something accomplished we'd better get to doing it. That was my conclusion, too, so I returned to a scale where I knew there would be product and availability and I could get on with the business of amassing product/supplies that would cater to my desires within the hobby.
So now, about the only scale S guy left here that still regularly participates is Rusty. There have been several that have left.
And perhaps you're right, maybe I should move on... but I still hang around and hope for a touchdown for Rusty's (and any scaler's sake). I recall hooting and cheering loudly here when AM surprised S scale with it's beautiful RS-11. It may be hard for you to believe, but it DOES pain me to see such a nice size (S) with so much potential within the scale side of modeling to be getting such a short-ended stick.
For the sake of all you S scale enthusiasts (regardless of your persuasion), I really do hope the situation improves, and if it does, I'll be one of them on the sidelines cheering you on. However, I do reserve the right to call a spade a spade if that's the way I see it, and along that line, IMHO, MTH ain't cuttin' it, plain and simple. Your mileage may vary, and that's fine too.
Finally, yes, I frequent HO forums (check out the HONGZ forum here, for example) and there I generally have enjoyable interchange with others regarding their approach to the hobby, even those that have differing opinions/choices/experiences than mine.
(Rich: LOL! I understand! I'm still able to see "fair"... but for years I've used magnification to work on models, even during my S scale years.)
Sincerely,
Andre Ming
Andre you dont have a clue where my interest are and you not even close good to this ho roomas i give ho up years ago have a great night and life
Doug-Sr posted:Some people are just to negative to enjoy this hobby
Gee!
And you don't have a clue about my interests! If you've ever read any of my reviews, I have no trouble singing the praises of products from MTH, Lionel and American Models, along with pointing out any warts I might see.
If I didn't enjoy S Scale I wouldn't have been stayed with it for over 30 years...
And model railroading in general, including my childhood trains, for over 60 years...
Rusty
(Rich: LOL! I understand! I'm still able to see "fair"... but for years I've used magnification to work on models, even during my S scale years.)
Still resisting that solution!
Rich
"DOUG-SR":
I tried to be civil and courteous. I was trying to explain that, in spite of your perceptions, I hope for the best for S scale as a whole, and for my online friends that are in S. Seeing as you posted here in the S scale forum, I mistakenly assumed you are in, or interested in, S scale. Mea culpa.
You, on the other hand, apparently do not see the need to extend said civility and courtesy.
Fine. Let's do it your way. Thus, I'll be frank this time in my response to your last quip:
I actually don't care what you're interested in or do with your hobby.
Andre Ming
Rich:
Reading glasses ain't too bad if it comes to that. Wally World has some decent reading glasses of various magnifications if/when that time arrives. Also: Been a while since you've shared some pictures of your layout. Long overdue. How 'bout a round of pics soon?
Still say my S scale outcome might have been different had I taken the hi-rail approach. There are some REALLY nice S scale hi-rail layouts "out there".
Ah well, it is what it is... or was... or whatever!!
Andre
laming posted:Still say my S scale outcome might have been different had I taken the hi-rail approach. There are some REALLY nice S scale hi-rail layouts "out there".
A thought that has also crossed my mind from time to time... If I ever have to tear down the Great Plywood Glacier, it's a possibility.
Rusty
I've been following this thread and have seen and appreciated some of the arguments back an forth about the state of S guage/scale. I'm a lifelong S scaler who started out with a 4904T set in 1952. I've had AF, highrail, scale and Sn3 layouts through the ensuing years. Like many of you, I saw the demise of Gilbert and went through those years afterwards where it seemed that S would completely fade away. Those were the years that I was happy with Kinsman kits and converted AF (Ace parts). I also did most of the Lehigh Valley Models structure kits and thanks to the wonderful techniques suggested by Frank Titman that I learned, I honed my skills as a scratchbuilder. I'm from the old school that says you make due with what you have.
A good example of that is my experience with SN3. I live near the East Broad Top RR and decided to include a section of it with my scale layout. BTS had announced several kits. But, after trying the waters, BTS has pretty much ceased producing EBT equipment due to lack of adequate sales. I've soldiered on however and once again resorted to scratchbuilding and kitbashing (MDC HO hoppers for example).
Outside of two others that I know about, there are only 3 of us modeling the EBT in S.
I'm certainly not bragging because I won't win any modeling contests. What I'm saying is that being an S gauger/scaler is what you make of it. I won't disparage those who move on to other scales because S can't satisfy their particular needs. Maybe it takes a lifelong S gauger to have the kind of loyalty it takes to stick it out no matter how many manufacturers or modelers abandon the scale. All I know is that I'm in it for life and will always love everything S, from scale layouts featured in MR to circles of AF under the Christmas tree. The folks in the other scales, just don't now what they're missing when they just judge the scale by what's available to buy.
banjoflyer posted:This post might serve an unintended purpose. What with the release of the LIonel 2018 catalog and all the corresponding hubbub about the S scale offerings on just this forum alone MTH should now see that there is a big interest in S scale.
But if they decide to let their contribution evaporate they have only themselves to blame.
Mark
Right now, Lionel and even AM are running rings around MTH S.
Rusty
And I hope they both continue to do so. A healthy S scale/gauge market is good for everyone - scale/hi-rail users and manufacturers.
But it would be nice to see MTH at least try.
