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Dan, I have the MTH cat system but have not installed it yet. I have some concerns about it. The cat pole seem to be substantially made. However, the plastic base is a concern, especially the two small ears/tabs that are for attaching the pole to the layout. It seems that they will break easy if flexed to much.  My other concern is with the messenger/carrier set up, seems to flimsy.  It is easily bendable and therefore, IMO, will flex under to much pressure, i.e. the upward force of the pressure from the engine pickup.  This is no slight against MTH (shipping schedules on the other hand . . . but I digress). I should install it and see what happens. I did look at the article on tcaetrain and I think the writer used a novel approach for hanging the wire from the pole arm. If anyone has comments regarding MTH's one piece carrier/messenger wire, I'd like to hear them.

Steve

Dan I put catenary up on my dining room table for Christmas. It was hard to put up for a temporary layout. I used it for a non scale GG1 set. Its hard on turns such as 031 track for the wiper to touch contact wire. I also had to use two sided tape from home depot that had, I think 9 lbs sticking. It took a few hours so if this is for the temporary fix make sure you have time, larger diameter track I believe would be easier.

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David Johnston posted:

Dan, the messenger is the upper wire that forms the catenary curve.  The lower wire is the contact wire.  This is the wire that the pantograph shoe runs against.  They are connected together with hangers, the small verticle rods.  In the MTH system the messenger, the contact wire and the hangers are all one piece.

David, I used the terms given by MTH to write my post.  There are so many misunderstood terms about catenary work that I figured I would just go with what MTH had printed in the instruction manual.  

However, I had thought that the messenger wire is the wire that runs just above the contact wire by an inch or two.  Some catenary systems have this, others don't.  Then the vertical support wires carry the messenger and contact wire.  They in turn are supported by the catenary wire.

To confuse things a bit more, here are two sketches from the web.   

Catenarycatenary-types-three

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RideTheRails posted:

Dan, I have the MTH cat system but have not installed it yet. I have some concerns about it. The cat pole seem to be substantially made. However, the plastic base is a concern, especially the two small ears/tabs that are for attaching the pole to the layout. It seems that they will break easy if flexed to much.  My other concern is with the messenger/carrier set up, seems to flimsy.  It is easily bendable and therefore, IMO, will flex under to much pressure, i.e. the upward force of the pressure from the engine pickup.  This is no slight against MTH (shipping schedules on the other hand . . . but I digress). I should install it and see what happens. I did look at the article on tcaetrain and I think the writer used a novel approach for hanging the wire from the pole arm. If anyone has comments regarding MTH's one piece carrier/messenger wire, I'd like to hear them.

Steve

Many years ago, I made a scratch built catenary system for my GG1 to run under.  It was simple but still had a catenary support wire, droppers and a contact wire.   I used wood dowels for the masts.   Getting the wire positioned over curved track was the hardest part of the build.  

In actual practice, the contact wire on curved track is a series of tangents or straights.  This is what I hope to accomplish with the MTH supports.  I have a bunch of 1/16" diameter brass rod.  I was planning to use it with the MTH masts.  Once I receive the masts, I'll have a better idea of how that attachment will work.  I may have to modify the masts where they carry the wires.  

In the simplest form, a single wire can be hung from the masts.  Of course, this looks more like a streetcar system.  But as I am building an accessory packed layout, it may be my best choice.  The only drawback would be upward pressure on a single wire by the pantograph.  There are ways around the issue however.  I'll do some imagineering over the next few days. 

shurlock1 posted:

Dan I put catenary up on my dining room table for Christmas. It was hard to put up for a temporary layout. I used it for a non scale GG1 set. Its hard on turns such as 031 track for the wiper to touch contact wire. I also had to use two sided tape from home depot that had, I think 9 lbs sticking. It took a few hours so if this is for the temporary fix make sure you have time, larger diameter track I believe would be easier.

I would imagine a temporary set-up to be difficult as you say.  When I was a kid, my buddies father brought home a trackless trolley system for him.  It was unique.  We tried setting it up on a table, but could not fasten the masts down.  I've seen the same item on Youtube I think.  I have also seen larger scale systems on Youtube. 

O31 curves would make it even more difficult to do, as you have said.  

shurlock1 posted:

Dan I put catenary up on my dining room table for Christmas. It was hard to put up for a temporary layout. I used it for a non scale GG1 set. Its hard on turns such as 031 track for the wiper to touch contact wire. I also had to use two sided tape from home depot that had, I think 9 lbs sticking. It took a few hours so if this is for the temporary fix make sure you have time, larger diameter track I believe would be easier.

Shurlock1, thanks for the pic. Was the cat actually functional? Meaning could you run your GG1 without any problems?

Thanks,

Steve

It was very hard to get it to stay in place. I didn't have it working with current going through it but more for visual the wipers hit the wire but I had it set where it would get tangled by the wiper if there was a problem. I learned a lot, maybe next Christmas I will probably screw it down to plywood after using the two sided tape to find out where I want to put the masts. The hardest thing is when my non scale GG1 went around track it wouldn't work correctly for another electric loco because the length of loco and radius track.

Steve, another thought came to mind after I logged off this morning.  Thoughts come more slowly these days.....LOL   You mentioned the possibility of the base breaking due to minimal tab thickness.  I think what I am going to have to do is put "Guy" wires from the masts down to the table.  No matter how careful we like to think we are, the catenary system always seems to jump right in the path of our elbow, hand, something in our hands, etc......  LOL

 

I had a couple different versions of a catenary system in my garden railway until a few years ago.  It just became a nuisance so I dismantled it.  SWMBO likes to plant and orders the transplanting of things.  You can guess who is the orderer and who is the orderee.   Here are some photos of the catenary system.  And also a video of it in operation.  

I miss having it, so all the more reason why I want one for my O gauge layout.

https://youtu.be/7CtOfMMxyv4

GR6GR14GR31GR32GR33GR34GR40

 

  

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The MTH, so called messenger wire comes in the package as shown in the instruction manual. I actually used it on a permanent lay out with 072 Gargraves curves. Curves less than 072 will be more difficult. It works fine unless you are concerned about it being 100% realistic. The MTH Catenary System did add a lot of realism and I have enjoyed it.

I like your garden layout - I built simple overhead wire for a boxcab experiment years ago with copper wire and dowels, then made an aluminum jig with aluminum rivets set into it for a catenary soldering jig. Some success, but the dust gathered. The MTH system made me look, but I found it un-appealing. There's a catenary loop here with what looks like MTH components. The base fastening system is off-track it appears.

My plans are to follow the catenary systems built by the forum's Marty Fitzhenry and Don "ScaleRail", using Marklin HO catenary sections and home-manufactured poles. OGR magazine has Don's catenary article. 

 

Last edited by Firewood

For one area of the prototype - here are a few pix taken last month just south of the Elizabeth station on the NEC. To my untrained eye, it looks like some of the contact wire is curved; in others, it looks like (as Dan said) a series of straights, though perhaps only one to three or four hangers. Could just be what's sharp in the pix and what's not, and the angle of view.

Davidamtrkcat3amtrkcat2amtrkcat

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