MTH DCS Remote Set OLDER vs CURRENT

Hi Arnold,

I have not followed every detail on this thread but here is a thought for you to consider. Perhaps you could hook the whole layout to the two variable channels. The Rev L TIU can support a lot of track. That way you can run DCS or conventional anywhere on the layout. You just can’t do DCS and coventional at the same time on variable 1 or variable 2.

Ed Kazarian

@CurtisH posted:

Arnold

Please NOTE: Your quote = I now know from your above post that I should not touch my Z4000 throttle handle(s) when running a Postwar or Proto 1 engine on that portion of my layout hooked up to the TIU fixed voltage channels. When running the Postwar or Proto 1 engine there, I have to keep the voltage of the track at 18 volts at all times.

For heaven sakes that is not what I said. LOL You can run PS 2 and PS 3 on Fixed one and NOT move the handle off 18 volts.

If you set it to 18 volts with PS 1 or Postwar (conventional) they are going to take off like a rocket. Use the second handle on a different loop isolated from the first loop and run them. You can simply move the handle. Use Fixed 2 for that loop ad control them via the handle.

Send me an email and I will give you my cell number and try to talk you thru it.

Curtis

Curtis, thanks a million, once again. I will go on your profile, get your email and send an email to you so we can exchange telephone numbers in case I need to speak to you, but I think your last post goes a long way to clearing up my confusion.

A couple of more quick questions.

When I have only Postwar or Proto 1 trains on my layout with the DCS Remote control Set hooked up, I won't be using the Remote Handheld so that will be turned off, and I assume I simply turn on my Z4000s and run the trains the old fashioned way. Is that correct?

I see no on/off switch on the TIU, is that correct?

Arnold

@ekaz posted:

Hi Arnold,

I have not followed every detail on this thread but here is a thought for you to consider. Perhaps you could hook the whole layout to the two variable channels. The Rev L TIU can support a lot of track. That way you can run DCS or conventional anywhere on the layout. You just can’t do DCS and coventional at the same time on variable 1 or variable 2.

Ed Kazarian

Ed, thanks for sharing that thought. In response, I believe Curtis previously told me that at least one connection from the transformer needs to go into the FIXED VOLTAGE ONE IN input on the TIU in order for the TIU to use the power from the transformer. Otherwise, if I only used the variable voltage inputs on the TIU, I would need to attach another power source to the TIU, using the AUX POWER INPUT of the TIU. Arnold

@CurtisH posted:

Send me an email and I will give you my cell number and try to talk you thru it.

Curtis

Curtis, I could not find your email on your Forum Profile. My email is on my Forum Profile, so if you send me an email, then we can exchange cell phone numbers.

Arnold

My understanding is that the TIU needs to be powered up using Fixed one or auxilliary. I use auxilliary in addition to fixed one. Fixed one runs only DCS trains.  If powered up with fixed one only the TIU is powered up but the fixed 1 does not have to be used to run the trains. You should be able to power up the TIU with the 14 volt output from the back of the Z4000. I think using a wall wart for the auxilliary is better. Either way, Then the 2 handles of the Z4000 get connected to the 2 variable TIU channels. Hopefully some of the others following this can advise if this is a safe and viable option.
Ed

Arnold

Curtis. Thank you again, and what you say is good news. I am now l working on installing this DCS Remote control Set, and hope to test it tonight and tomorrow. Then, I will report back.

I will be powering the TIU by connecting wires between one of the Z4000 transformers and the Fixed Voltage One Input.

Later on, if I decide to have a power source connected to the AUX PORT, what power source do you recommend, and is there an adapter cable used to plug in to the AUX PORT of the TIU and the power source (maybe another transformer).

If you use another transformer as the auxiliary power source, what kind of transformer would be best?

I read that there was a DCS Power Source specifically made by MTH to plug in to the AUX PORT, but MTH stopped making it and now it may be hard to find.

This could be overkill, but I do have a 3rd Z4000 in storage (it's my original Z4000 bought in the late 1990s), but the fan in it does not work, so I need to take it to a technician to have it serviced. Other than the fan, it works fine, and I may have used that Z4000 for years with the fan not working, and the transformer worked like a charm.

Arnold

@Arnold D. Cribari

Here’s a link to a independent power supply I just bought for our clubs TIU. Inexpensive and plugs right in

https://www.allelectronics.com...r-supply-used/1.html

Arnold the Z500 from the DCS Freight set  you bought will work. Curtis

Here is the upshot:

I connected the DCS Remote Control Set including the TIU to my two Z4000 transformers and my layout.

The Z4000 throttles/channels that were plugged in to the Fixed voltage inputs worked fine. However, I could not get the throttles/channels connected to the variable volt inputs of the TIU to work even after trying different things.

First, I switched wires as described below at the suggestion of Curtis after we spoke on the phone. I had each transformer connected to a variable volt input and a fixed voltage input. However, only the transformer throttles connect to the fixed voltage input worked.

Then, I plugged in an MTH Z-500 power unit into the Aux Power Input. I got the red light, but no power to the track.

Any thoughts?

Arnold

The Aux power only powers the TIU NOT the tracks. Yes you need to use the FIXED inputs and move the handles.

Arnold,

Youmight try this. Connect the Z500 to aux power. Connect the Z4000 handles to the variable channels. If the red light on the TIU is on then it is powered up. On my layout I then go to the TR button on the handheld. The 2 variable tracks should then be displayed. Click on one and then turn the thumbwheel upward to turn on the power to the track. Repeat for the other channel. Sounds like you are getting power to the TIU but not the track.

Ed

I have made some progress, but am not quite there.

Curtis and I have spoken, and I have obtained the downloaded version of Mr. Broskowsk's excellent book, and I ordered the paperback.

I followed page 130 of that book re Creating TIU Tracks on Variable Channels, followed it to the letter including inserting names to my 2 variable channels, and in the process of doing that for Variable 1 with power from the transformer and the z500 brick plugged in to the Aux Power Input, the sidings powered by that variable channel came alive. Eureka!

However, I did the exact same thing for Variable 2 and the sidings powered by that variable channel did not get any power.

I also followed Ed's recommended protocol, and that also did not work.

Any thoughts?

Arnokd

Getting close! If you have a voltmeter, it might be worth checking the voltage going in and coming out of variable 2. If there is good voltage coming out, then when you try to turn on variable 2 with the handheld, make sure you scroll the thumb wheel  far enough to increase the voltage. If you have a lighted car on the track you can watch for the brightness in the bulb.

Ed

I see this problem is addressed in Mr. Broskowitz' book and another Forum thread entitled My Layout is Operational but No Power to Tracks.

I gather that it is not uncommon for the Variable Voltage Inputs to be problematic, and the best solution for many of us to avoid  the problems is to follow the protocol to have those variable inputs function like Fixed Voltage Inputs, use an auxiliary power source like a Z500, plug it into the Aux Power input and keep that power source on at all times to avoid having to reboot the DCS System.

I will do the above and report back later.

Enjoy the big game.

Arnold

I want to take a moment to thank Curtis, who spoke to me on the phone, and the rest of you for all of comments that helped me get the DCS remote Controller installed and working. Arnold

Nice going Curtis!

Arnold, what was the final solution?

Ed

Final Solution for me was to follow Mr. Broskowitz' protocol for getting my Variable voltage channels to function like Fixed voltage channels. Then, I was able to run my MTH Proto 2 and 3 engines on my entire layout using the DCS Remote handheld, and my Postwar and Proto 1 engines the old fashioned way, using the handles of my Z4000 transformers, on my entire layout.

I have a concern about the responsiveness of the circuit breakers in the Z4000s (which usually have very quick acting curcuitbreakers) if there is a TIU between the transformers and the track. Since this is tangential to the issue raised on this thread, I will start a new thread shortly regarding this tangential issue.

Arnold

@Arnold D. Cribari posted:

I just answered my question. I found the Rev L designation on my unit, so the one I just bought is the new one. Arnold

Hi

can you send me a pic of the newer version of DCS

Thanks

Fred

Arnold, you're missing one great feature of the DCS system when running conventional:  walkaround control.  If you ran the VARIABLE channels as variable and used them instead of in the fixed mode, you could control conventional locos from the remote.  When wanting to run PS2 oe PS3, simply set the voltage to 18 or so and run.

Even easier, configure the variable channels as fixed, that way command operation is automatic from power on.  If you want to run conventional on one of those channels, simply press the TR key and select the track #1 or #2, and then press TVZ, and you're in conventional mode with no power on the track.  Put the engine on the track and start running conventionally.

@zhubl posted:

@Arnold D. Cribari

Here’s a link to a independent power supply I just bought for our clubs TIU. Inexpensive and plugs right in

https://www.allelectronics.com...r-supply-used/1.html

Zhubl, the link seems broken. Can you post it again or tell us the specific power supply purchased? I’m currently using a leftover z-750 to power my tiu but would like to use it for accessory power.  Your power supply would free it up for me. Thanks in advance.

eBay: 254917176000

Thanks GunrunnerJohn.  

GRJ, isn't 24-volt output a bit much?  I can't bring up the actual device to see its characteristics.

@RJR posted:

GRJ, isn't 24-volt output a bit much?  I can't bring up the actual device to see its characteristics.

I don't think so.  The peak voltage of 22VAC will exceed the peak of the DC output of this supply, so I don't see an issue.  However, if that concerns you, look for one of the tons of bricks that have a slightly lower voltage.

eBay: 173217619497

eBay: 292667243179

@RJR posted:

GRJ, isn't 24-volt output a bit much?  I can't bring up the actual device to see its characteristics.

FWIW, I just search eBay with the eBay auction number that I post.  I never fail to bring up the auction referenced it it's still active.  I can't imagine why you can't bring up the auction.

@Strap Hanger posted:

Zhubl, the link seems broken. Can you post it again or tell us the specific power supply purchased? I’m currently using a leftover z-750 to power my tiu but would like to use it for accessory power.  Your power supply would free it up for me. Thanks in advance.

All Electronics is more of a overstock supplier so sometimes things go in and out of stock. Here is their best fit now 12V 3A more than you’d ever need find that HERE