MTH enters S scale market

Was there some sort of problem with the earlier thread? I'm aware that some people were expressing displeasure with MTH, but there didn't seem to be any reason to poof the thread, IMO.

 

I notice that the thread in the S scale forum has also disappeared, which is even more surprising. Most comments in that thread were supportive of MTH, and simply expressed optimism about the future of S scale.

 

Jeff C

I just spent about 30 minutes reading around looking for the two earlier threads. Lots of good info!

Was trying to download some of Rusty Traque's excellent photos when it jammed...

We started out with a Gilbert PRR K5 for Christmas 1949 and have always had a soft spot for S gauge. I welcome Mike's incursion!

What happened?

My guess is it was getting ready to go down some nasty track.

 

I'll repost the pictures tonight, I wanted to change one anyway.

 

Rusty

In a word:  Politics.  Some just can't seem to resist, so I imagine that's why it disappeared.

 

There were many useful comments in those earlier threads as well, and I hope those who contributed meaningful input--pro, con, or somewhere in between--will do so again.

 

This is especially meaningful news for the S scale community, of course, but I'm confident it also is of interest to the hobby world outside S scale.

We as hobbyists (consumers) must always keep in mind that this IS a business and involves people's livelihood, investment, and time. A business must earn a profit.

 

There were several interesting comments made earlier but one that struck me was Mike's purported statement to one of the Forum members that "O Scale is flat". Think about that for a minute. Mike is certainly in a good position to make that assessment.

 

We in O gauge are indeed fortunate that there is so much new product coming our way! 

 

If it is indeed 'flat', as an O Gauge business owner, what would be YOUR approach to grow your operation and continue to make money?

 

Mike's entry into S can be nothing but a positive one.

I really dislike this heavy handed approach. I thought it was a good discussion. I didn't see any personal attacks or anything. Are we afraid of upsetting an advertiser?

@Allan,

Thank you for explaining.  I really appreciate it.

I can assure you, without qualification, that concern over advertising/advertisers had absolutely nothing to do with it.

I must admit that about the only scale I've never owned is S.  I have modeled in Z, N, HO, O, On30, Std. Gauge, and Large Scale at various times, but never really had any exposure to S scale.

 

That said, I'm glad to see the S scale community being served once again after a couple of pretty rocky years in terms of production of their favorite items.  They may be a small niche within the small niche that constitutes the overall "model railroading" community, but it's a very nice in-between scale for those who find HO to small and O gauge a bit too large for the space they have available, or who wish to create a large empire even if they have a significant amount of space.

 

As I see it, the important thing is that the hobby of model railroading flourish and be enjoyed, and I really don't care which scale the individual modeler may prefer.  And I say that as the editor of a magazine devoted to a particular scale.  Here's hoping that this new venture in S is a great success for all involved!

S-Scale is a great product and it has alot going for it. I for one think MTH made a very good move. It will be good not only for the MTH bottom line, but it is also a big plus for those who model these trains. I can't see any logical reason not to happy for our toy train brethren.

 

As for the charm of 1/64 scale that is and always will be in the eye of the beholder. But, I have to admit with all the wonderful sound systems we enjoy today that air cylinder generated choo-choo of the Post War American Flyer Steam is still hard to beat.

OK, here's a reposting of images to illustrate what MTH has to start with.  For SHS being such a small company, they left big shoes to fill...

 

EMD SW1:

 

EMD SW1200:

 

The switchers came with 2 sets of pilots.  A pair for non-MU and a pair for MU.  Originally, the non-MU pilots were the "HiRail" pilots with a gap to allow for coupler swing.  SHS discovered the gap wasn't necessary on the SW's and redesigned the pilots without the gap, but still included both sets.  The SW1 also included a short stack.

 

There's also an EMD NW2 and SW8, looks just as good, but I don't have an example.

 

EMD F3:

 

 

The SHS F3's and F7's included two sets of pilots, also.  The "passenger" pilot was the HiRail pilot and installed on the locomotive.  It has a removable coupler cover insert to allow for a Flyer compatible coupler.  The CB&Q units shows one I modified with the coupler cover in the open position per CB&Q practice.

 

The "freight" pilot is the scale pilot for using with Kadee couplers and was included in the box.

 

EMD F7:

 

 

Same deal with the pilots.  The F3's and F7's were also equipped with steam generator castings or single/Mars light headlights per prototype.  The Santa Fe passenger F's are properly equipped with steam generators in the B-units but not the A's.  The freight units have no steam generators.

 

All of SHS's diesels came equipped with HiRail wheels installed and scale wheels included in the box.  The F units also included assembled Kadee compatible couplers with mounting brackets.

 

2-8-0 (B&O E-27 Prototype)

 

 

The only SHS product where you had to specify whether you wanted HiRail or Scale wheels.  Roads other than B&O had the center mounted headlight.

 

SHS also had a varied array of wood side and steel boxcars, covered and open hoppers, 70 ton ore cars, stock cars, wood reefers, standard, bulkhead and TOFC flat cars and an extended vision caboose.  All freight cars came equipped with HiRail wheels and Flyer compatible couplers installed.  Scale wheels were included in the box and the modeler was left to supply Kadees.

 

So, MTH will be off to a good start.  Given what MTH has made in HO and O, combined with what Lionel's now doing with Flyer, S is going to get really interesting.

 

Rusty

Thomas,   what color is this please?  I'm familiar with several of the silver units but this is unusual....

The color looks a little off because of the cool white lighting I used when I took the picture.  Here's a little better, more recent one using daylight CFL's:

 

This is the CB&Q F-unit freight scheme, referred to as "Graybacks" by CB&Q employees. 

 

As I recall, it's officially a non-metallic silver-gray, but appears more of a light gray with a touch of tan.  I've seen the official EMD paint chip and like the model, the color shifts slightly from gray to tan under different lighting conditions.  It's a real pain to match.  I wound up using Accu-Flex "CSX Tan" to touch up the pilot after reworking it.

 

BTW, with the exception of the 2nd and 3rd hoppers, the entire train is SHS.

 

Rusty

 

Rusty,

 

Thanks for posting these pics.  I have a bunch af SHS rolling stock and also an ABBA set of the F3's.  Overall, I think the F-3's are very high quality and the pilot/wheel options that come in the box are a nice feature.  My only points for improvement would be to have metal side grills/chicken wire and mine tend to have a bit too much motor noise for my taste.  The upside is they are built like tanks and run super smooth with outstanding low speed performance on strait DC power. 

 

I currently have about 30 - 35 pcs. of SHS rolling stock.  Comming from O scale, I was really impresed with the level of detail and quality that they displayed.  Detail wise, again from an O scale POV, IMO they are as good or better than Atlas O.  One personal pet peave of mine are fragile detail parts and mine seem to hold up very well. The only thing I would improve on are the trucks which seem a bit loose and I would personally enjoy having metal trucks, but so far I have had no problems.  The paint and decaling has been flawless.

 

I would say that MTH got a very solid point of entry into S with buying SHS and if they can integrate what they do well in HO and O into what SHS already has, it will be a winner!

I'll agree, the F-units are a tad noisy, but not objectionally so.  The big, honkin' frame tends to amplify the noise somewhat. At least it's the noise of smooth, not the noise of poor fitting components. 

 

Where most companies would cut corners, SHS would add corners.  In some ways, SHS products are over-engineered, IMHO. 

 

But, that's not a bad thing.

 

Rusty

While I have been predicting further consolidation in the business for awhile, this one I didn't see coming. I still say this will not be the last over the next 12 months.

25 years in "O" scale 2R and 5 years (off and on) in "S" scale and IMHO the SHS locos and rolling stock are right up there with the very best of any plastic RTR products in "O" and better than many. Very quality built models. My SHS F units do have a whine while running but as Rusty stated nothing objectionable and the accuracy is outstanding. My greatest fear with the MTH takeover is they will replace the SHS horizontal drives with china drives so they can fit their electronics inside as Lionel did with their new "S" products. I really, really dislike the china drive even though its better now with all the electronics controlling it than before. My new "O" 3rd Rail E7's have a very smooth horizontal drive that I think will overshadow the china drive in "O" in the future.....or not. I really don't know how the 3R guys feel about it and they seem to control the "O" plastic RTR market.

 

Butch

I`m interested to see if at sometime MTH will have an S-Gauge Premier Line & Railking Line.. Also I`m very interested in seeing Wireless Drawbars in S-Gauge and Steam Whistle & Swinging Bell Effects in all the Gauges including HO and S...

My question to MTH would be, are you going to expand beyond the product line you are buying, developing new models that S Helper was not producing?  I do hope though that MTH hits the F3's and F7's hard.  I also look forward to potentially having a wide selection of reefers to chose from again!  I would love more of the PFE reefers to pull behind my Challenger.

 

Ben

Ben, I think you can absolutely count on that. Including RTR structures at some point in the future.

 

If MTH can do this in HO, there is no reason not to expect the same in S:

Butch,

 

MTH is not Lionel. MTH has the standard horizontal drive in HO, so there's no reason to do away with it in S. MTH already has full-featured DCS in HO with DCC compatibility, so the size of the electronics is not an issue.

 

Lionel's method of "broadcasting" the TMCC signal limits how much they can presently minimize the electronics.  The receiver components are only made so small.

 

That's what delayed the U33C for so long, trying to squeeze all that stuff into a smaller, S Scale package.  Add in the DCC compatibility that Lionel is working on, and it gets even tighter.  They will have a hard time squeezing it into an even smaller locomotive.  Lionel has indicated that a smaller locomotive with all the electronics and China Drive may have to sacrifice one motor.

 

Rusty

 

 

 

I'm all for wireless drawbars and dependable smooth operation, be it AC, DC DCC, TMCC or mental telepathy.  Smoke, whistle steam and swinging bells are just extra cr** as far as I'm concerned.

 

Rusty

I occasionally use the smoke feature on locomotives (very occasionally unless I have visitors who might enjoy seeing it), but I can definitely do without such things as whistle steam, swinging bells, and the like.  Just more stuff to add to the cost and to break down at some point.

Thanks Rusty,

 

I've never seen an MTH HO product so didn't know this, but it's good news.  I agree MTH is not Lionel. I think it is safe to say "We can expect great things from MTH". 

 

Butch

I think MTH bought the SHS line specifically with the idea of expanding the S scale market. I'd be very surprised if they didn't add to the existing product lineup--once they have those items back on the market.

 

Jeff C

With tooling and development cost being rather high, I would guess MTH will take advantage of existing tooling and product lines with maybe minor changes. This will allow them to begin recouping some of their $$$$ while they simultaneously begin designs of new features and new items.

 

Steve

Once again I applaud MTH for making this totally logical business decision. By purchasing the S Helper line they are buying an established brand well know in the S scale market.   With their resources and marketing expertise they are in a perfect position to grow the S scale market over time.

 

The S scale market is relatively small and the folks who model in that scale have not had the abundance of product or accessories available to the HO and O scale markets.

 

This is a wonderful opportunity for MTH to expand their business to accomodate S scale modelers and make the company one step closer to being a one stop manufacturer for the entire model railroad hobby.

 

Steve Tapper    

I posted on MTH's Facebook announcement that they should consider introducing newly tooled locomotives and rolling stock once the existing tooling was up and running and they responded that "...MTH is thinking along the same lines as to the future of the MTH S Gauge Line."

I have some SHS' rolling stock and it's the equal of Atlas' O master line with the exception that the KD mounting holes actually line up on the SHS' cars!  I actually asked the late Jim Weaver if Atlas had considered S and he indicated they had zero interest there.  I hope that MTH leaves mostly well-enough alone on the existing tooling and gets some new cars and engines into the line.  Unlike O, where a lot of "standard" engines have already been done, S is still ripe for new tooling. 

 

Should be an interesting 12-24 months.

 

Brian

I'm pretty sure MTH didn't buy SHS just to continue to crank out what's already been done.  There's some things in the O Gauge Premier line that will make me weak in the knees if they show up in S.

 

Back in 2004, SHS announced plans for an E7, but it got shelved because the 2-8-0 sucked up all their resources plus some.  Wonder how far along the R&D was on the E7 and if MTH will pick up on the project.

 

I would also hope to see switches to match the S-Trax 25" and 29" radius curves.

 

Rusty

Rusty, I remember the E7.  There was supposed to be an Erie-prototype bay window caboose, too.  

 

I sometimes think a shelf layout based on the NY, Ontario & Western using the SHS/MTH F3, NW2 and maybe the 2-8-0 could make for a fun project.

 

Brian

Is it possible that Lionel and MTH are working together on the idea that the time has come for a S gauge resurgance?  Lionel recently released the largest number of new American Flyer trains since they took over the company in the 1950's and a new track system that looks a lot like the S service track.  Now, another large player is going to offer S products.  What better way to make potential S scale customers comfortable that it is a scale with a future?

 

Just a thought!

 

Happy railroading,

Don

It's probably more a case of "Anything you can do, I can do better!"

 

Lionel's S FasTrack was simply a good idea to be compatible to the established SHS S-Trax.  Well, with a few swipes with a razor saw anyway...

 

https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/d...ent/4527055137442588

 

I'm pretty sure that in spite of the cooperation on Lionel Corporation Tinplate, Lionel and MTH both have they're little secrets from each other. 

 

At least they're not hurling lawyers at each other anymore.

 

Rusty

As I said in the post that was deleated. It was only a matter of time. The S-Gauge folks have been out in the cold for so long. Who knows, maybe MTH can help phase out the (funky looking pilots, IMO) that have ruined the S-Gauge choices for years. With the addition of DCS, the sky is the limit. Congratulations S-Gauge runners and collectors.

My thoughts exactly Don. I believe that both Lionel and MTH see a new opportunity to develop the S scale market. All's good with that as that market sorely needs a shot in the arm!

 

Steve Tapper

Ah, the other thread got the bomb.  Oh well.

 

Can't remember what I said in it anyway... so it must not have been very important!

 

ANYWAY...

 

For those O scalers here that the "MTH gets into S scale" news has knocked your hat in the creek, thought you might get a kick out of browsing an online magazine devoted to S scale.  Here's a link:

 

http://sscale.org/

 

Note one recent article is by an O scaler that has moved to S scale.  His thoughts are interesting.  Here's a direct link to said article:

 

http://sscale.org/679/volume-1-no-10-on2-to-s/

 

Johnnyspeed: 

 

Thanks for that video.  I didn't have a clue what MTH has done in the HO world. That MTH HO engine performs nicely.  However, the sudden stops are kind of unsettling.

 

Andre

That would be my 5 year old son operating it Andre. Also, that is straight out of the box. No momentum or anything has been set. Just demonstrating its 1 scale mph smoothness. It's a wonderful engine. 

Next they can bring back TT scale!

TT is still alive and doing well in Europe.  Tillig and Roco make it.

 

I was talking to the owner of my LHS last night.  He's big on O, but is planning on carrying a small stock of MTH S when it becomes available and seeing how it does.

 

Rusty

Most certainly a very interesting and potentially promising announcement.

 

Competition is good and this new arrangement should keep Lionel’s American Flyer feet to the fire. It would be interesting to know if the sale of S-Helper Service's assets was pitched (first?) to Lionel? In any case, it remains to be seen whether or not M.T.H. can maintain a reasonable facsimile of the wonderful personal attention from Don, Robin, and Mike F. that made S-Helper Service as a small dedicated firm so appealing. In addition to a very good line of trains, of course.

 

Because of SHS’s historic cash limitations, there are a significant number of gaps in the line up. Hopefully, M.T.H. will use the new opportunity to fill them. The thoughtful viewer of Rusty’s excellent pictures will note that the range of locomotive offerings is actually pretty limited (the SW’s, F-units, and the 2-8-0). There are no gondolas or tank cars. Although all of the rolling stock is steam or transition era, there is nothing modern and no true steam era caboose, aside from a very lovely later period extended vision caboose type. No recently offered passenger equipment. The excellent sectional track system still requires completion, e.g., more radius choices and high number turnouts. There is a lot in the line that is very good, indeed. But, much remains to be done to make it a complete train line.

 

I also hope that a bit of M.T.H.’s native practicality as a manufacturer/importer of a broad line of trains can rub off on the acquired Showcase Line. For example, the 2-8-0 is an excellent but flawed product. The plastic tender tether point and many of the add-on detail parts are too fragile. Operation of the hi-rail version is lumpy at slow speeds in conventional AC mode. Such shortcomings as these can hopefully be avoided in the future.

 

As a life long enthusiast of S gauge, I hope that the big three manufactures (Lionel, M.T.H., and AM) can avoid going head-to-head on offerings, at least for a while. AM, SHS, and Lionel AF managed this quite well in the past. And, River Raisin plays in a different and lofty market segment, all together. American Models has been and continues to offer a quality, but slightly lower priced line of trains. One suspects that this could continue with AM being able to tout that much of their line is made here in good ol' Michigan. How the various control systems will play out is another hanging question. We’ll see. It will be fun to watch. And participate.

 

Bob Bubeck

A.C. Gilbert has to be smiling. I'm.

Pretty good analysis, Bob.  (BTW, it's a 2-8-0...)

 

Sometimes SHS held themselves back to their advantage or disadvantage.  The switchers evolved due to the use of common castings, trucks, cabs, etc... Same for the F-units.  Their box cars and open hopper cars also used some common castings between the models, minimizing the development costs.

 

One thing that held them back was wanting to try to keep the freight cars visually the same height as a Flyer boxcar.  Everybody and their brother in the scale crowd was asking SHS to do a PS-1 boxcar, but they didn't want to do one because it was taller than the Flyer boxcar.  How the TOFC and bulkhead flats got made with this logic escapes me.

 

I suspect (pure speculation alert...) that MTH will announce something totally new by mid next year to shake things up with the Showcase Line.  I look to how MTH rolled out the HO line as a guide.  Maybe, I'm wrong, we'll see.

 

With the recent exciting developments in S, I don't expect S to overtake O or HO in popularity, but it may become more mainstream, less of a curiosity and get some valuable shelf space in stores.

 

Rusty

Ooops! Fixed that. Should have typed better because I own a SHS B&O Consol, converted to TMCC.

 

"The" Flyer box car is a model of the PRR X-29. Good in its day, but a PS-1 should have been done. More likely to happen now.

 

Bob

Seeing that the PS-1 40' Box Car was one of the first cars in the O Scale and the HO Scale line, it looks like PS-1 40' Box Car will immediately be added to the new S Scale line. They could be extra confident by making both 50' and 40' PS-1 Box Cars for the S Scale line to match the O Scale line.

 

Andrew

 

 

I regard this as very exciting news!

 

S scale has always intrigued me, but alas, the manufacturers, Lionel's pretty much neglected American Flyer line, S Helper, and American Models were unable to compete with the plethora of product offerings available to us three railers sufficient to tempt many of us away from the product cornucopia of today's O marketplace.

 

HO, most of us "toy train" guys would agree, is just too small for aging eyes and hands, but S has the size advantage enabling a model railroader to pack a lot more layout into an available space like a basement or attic.  Despite the much larger numbers of us who cut our electric train teeth on Lionel, there has always been a sizable potential market for S due to its artfully sized dimensions somewhere between O and HO, as well as a loyal crowd of American Flyer fans hankering to go rivet counting and scenery building.

 

MTH's purchase of an existing manufacturer/importer of quality scale offerings like S Helper, can only be good news for those already committed to or considering S scale as a space-expanding alternative to the real estate consuming size of O scale, three rail or otherwise!  The recent introduction of the smaller component size of PS-3 makes a perfect fit inside the smaller confines of S scale diesel locos and steam tenders.  If Mike and company can shoehorn that fun-expanding stuff into HO, surely there is little limitation to the electronic bells, whistles, and operational features they can fit into the larger confines of S!

 

MTH has the financial horsepower to expand the S Helper line with locos and rolling stock that would never have been possible had SH remained a small niche outfit.  For S scale guys, this has to be a marriage made in Heaven!  I can't imagine that the market is large enough (yet) to demand the kind of variety and diversity of product that MTH has been able to produce in O gauge, but the product line will certainly be refined and expanded beyond anything S scalers could have hoped for in the past.

 

So, this will undoubtedly be fun to watch what MTH will do for and with S scale if their efforts in HO are any indication of what might be accomplished.  Perhaps if MTH builds it, they will come!

 

CongratulatoryBear

" Lionel's pretty much neglected American Flyer line"

 

I dont know that I would agree with that statement. I think that Over the years just about every important freight car has been released as well as the significant diesels. The PA Missouri pacific eagle, UP and Silver comet sets were released and quite a few of the operating accessories were reproduced. MTH made several accessories as well. We did not see most of the Steam engines but I think there may have been problems with the tools. In their place Lionel gave us beautiful USRA Pacifics and Mikados with TMCC and Challengers and the coming mallets . There have been several new diesels as well. Interesting items of recent are a PWC flyer set and a modern version of the Circus train.And lets not forget the new Fastrack and the remake of some of the conventional track components.

 

I think what nmight give us an impression of neglect is the lack of a stand alone catalog until this year. Flyer items were always buried in the Lionel Catalog however check back at those catalogs and there are quite a few varied offerrings over time.

 

I blieve for s scalers and guages, the purchase of the S Helper line offers some relief as they can expect to see these products made available on a regular basis and perhaps some new designs as Lionel is doing.

 

It will be interesting to see how the control electronics manifests itself and plays out among S gauge enthusiasts.

I think I would also disagree with the word "neglect."  I would say that Lionel was inconsistent in marketing and presentation over the decades. Multiple management changes didn't help. 

 

As I mentioned earlier in the thread that got vaporized, at the NASG convention in Milwaukee in 2003, Lionel was showing off the castings for the Mikado.  Spread out across the table you could see this was indeed a new commitment and direction for Flyer.

 

The representative asked us some very detailed questions on how to attract the scale market.  (Never thought I'd hear a Lionel rep say "Kadee...")  We had a very nice conversation with him about locomotives and rolling stock being "scale friendly." We left with the feeling that Lionel/Flyer had indeed turned the corner.

 

Then management changed a year or so later and *poof* he was gone...  Flyer continued to trickle on.

 

But, that's all in the past.

 

Lionel is a much more stable company now and they seem to have sharpened their focus to our benefit.

 

Rusty

LIRR Steamer:

 

Maybe I was too hasty in my comment about Lionel neglecting their American Flyer line.  Your profile doesn't say, but it looks like you're an S gauge guy, so I'll defer to your opinion on that one.  I confess that I don't follow S that closely, just admire the items and lines I see at train meets, particularly at York.

 

I agree with those that said on this thread that robust competition can only benefit the S gauge/S scale hobby, which compared to O and HO has been in the doldrums for far too long.  I also forgot to mention that aspect of Gilbert AF vs Lionel that was always guaranteed to start a fight on the school yard, two rail vs three rail track, might give a vital advantage to a vibrant S marketplace appealing to newcomers!  A high rail type of a semiscale track system in S like Atlas 21st Century Track or MTH Scaletrax which are already available in O could also increase the appeal of S over three rail O for consumers not already committed to O and loaded up with stuff.

 

If Mike Wolf did in fact say that O was "flat" he's probably right.  Mike is a marketing genius and nobody knows the numbers better than he does.  Competition in O gauge has been intense and the supply of product for the past decade or so has been prodigious.  So S could be a fertile field for MTH to sow some seeds in, especially with PS/DCS-equipped locomotives.  If Mike Wolf and team didn't think the market were there, they wouldn't have bought out S Helper! 

 

Somebody said earlier in the thread that he was skeptical about the appeal of high tech electronic sound and control systems in the S gauge hobby.  I predict that for most operators, once they see and hear what PS or TMCC/Legacy can do, they'll be hooked too.  The serious S gauge modeler who cares about operations and previous to DCC, had to wire his/her layout with all those blocks and use plug-in throttles etc. to operate down line prototypically will love the freedom that the DCS handheld or CAB 2 remote gives them.  And both systems are a lot more user friendly than DCC from what I've read and seen.

 

This promises to be an exciting, even revolutionary time in the history of S gauge.

 

Bear

Is Mike supposed to have meant by saying "The O Gauge market is flat" that the O Gauge market in the US isn`t growing for MTH? Then has it flattened out at a large rate of sales? Mike has said that He thinks there`s alot of potential for Growth in the European Market for O-Gauge: simular to the US market in the 70`s and 80`s.. 

If MTH takes the SHS down the DCS line I hope it's in the form of a 'plug-in' to the existing 8-pin socket. I've already got a fairly hefty investment in DCC and getting my 'S' equipment switched over to DCC. I don't really want to be paying for DCS circuitry when I will not be using it.

 

 

DCS 3.0 (introduced when MTH started making HO) is DCC compatible.

 

Rusty

From perusing the HO forums, it's DCC compatible up to a point, but there are issues. And if adding DCS, which I don't need, pushes the prices up into the range of MTH's HO offerings it will price me out of their 'S' loco market. Which is why I'd prefer any DCS option be a 'plug-in', not built in.

 

I haven't been following all the MTH HO offerings closely, but seeing the recent released HO PA's and F-units come both ways: Proto 3.0 or DCC ready, its possible that DCC ready may be an option for S. 

 

It all depends if MTH follows the O Gauge marketing model or HO marketing model with S.  It's just another unanswered question for MTH after the dust settles...

 

But, by observation, it seems more folks want all the bells and whistles these days than those that do not. 

 

Rusty

 

 

This is the feature write up from a PS-3 Ho product. It talks about having DCC on board. I would think the S Helper enhines by MTH could be like this:

 

 

Proto-Sound 3.0 equipped locomotives can be controlled in command mode with any DCC compliant command control system. While the user won't have access to all of the incredible features of Proto-Sound 3.0, independent control over the locomotive is possible. This means you can continue to use your existing DCC controller to independently control your other DCC equipped locomotives in addition to your Proto-Sound 3.0 locomotive on the same track at the same time.

When using a DCC controller, the following Proto-Sound 3.0 locomotive features are accessible:

• F0 Headlight
• F1 Bell
• F2 Horn
• F3 Start-up/Shut-down
• F4 PFA
• F5 Lights (Number Board)
• F6 Master Volume
• F7 Front Coupler
• F8 Rear Coupler
• F9 Forward Signal
• F10 Reverse Signal
• F11 Smoke On/Off
• F12 Smoke Volume
• F13 Grade Crossing
• F14 Coupler Slack
• F15 Extended Start-up
• F16 Extended Shut-down
• F17 Rev Up
• F18 Rev Down
• F19 Engine Sounds (On/Off)
• F20 Single Horn Blast
• F21 Coupler Close
• F22 Feature Reset
• F23 Idle Sequence 1
• F24 Idle Sequence 2
• F25 Idle Sequence 3
• F26 One Shot Doppler (On/Off)
• F27 Brake Sounds (On/Off)
• F28 Cab Chatter (On/Off)
• Proto-Sound 3.0 With The Digital Command System Featuring: Freight Yard Proto-Effects
• Unit Measures:13 7/8” x 1 7/16” x 2 3/8”
• Operates On 18" Radius Curves

The SHS locos are already 'DCC Ready'. Out of the box the dummy plug is set for traditional 'S' AC operation. By rotating the plug 180deg it switches them to DC operation, like HO/N.

 

By removing the dummy plug, and installing an 8-pin motor or motor/sound decoder and speaker you get DCC operation, with or without sounds. Which is what I do, and why I don't particularly want to pay for DCS to be included when I won't be using it.

 

Actually, unless ordered for DC operation, non-sound AC SHS loco's had an electronic 3-position reverse board installed with the DCC shorting plug included in the box.  I have a small collection of SHS reverser boards lying around here somewhere. 

 

The first run SW1's were wired backwards and SHS sent a "reversed" shorting plug on request.  I simply reversed the motor and lamp leads at the 8-pin plug on mine.

 

As far as MTH goes, it's only been a week.  I don't think even they know how they're going to handle things yet.

 

Rusty

When using a DCC controller, the following Proto-Sound 3.0 locomotive features are accessible:

• F0 Headlight
• F1 Bell
• F2 Horn
• F3 Start-up/Shut-down
• F4 PFA
• F5 Lights (Number Board)
• F6 Master Volume
• F7 Front Coupler
• F8 Rear Coupler
• F9 Forward Signal
• F10 Reverse Signal
• F11 Smoke On/Off
• F12 Smoke Volume
• F13 Grade Crossing
• F14 Coupler Slack
• F15 Extended Start-up
• F16 Extended Shut-down
• F17 Rev Up
• F18 Rev Down
• F19 Engine Sounds (On/Off)
• F20 Single Horn Blast
• F21 Coupler Close
• F22 Feature Reset
• F23 Idle Sequence 1
• F24 Idle Sequence 2
• F25 Idle Sequence 3
• F26 One Shot Doppler (On/Off)
• F27 Brake Sounds (On/Off)
• F28 Cab Chatter (On/Off)
• Proto-Sound 3.0 With The Digital Command System Featuring: Freight Yard Proto-Effects

 

 

I can't imagine too much else a person would need.  That's a lot of control.  I agree that we need to see what MTH is going to do. They seem like a pretty sharp group so I would assume they'll do the right thing.

 

Butch

Mike Wolf is a smart business man. He wouldn't be getting into "S" Gauge if he didn't think he could make money.I have always been disappointed with Lionel's lack of interest in really digging deep into "S" Gauge. I have always believed the only reason they purchased the American Flyer tooling was to keep some other toy company from purchasing it.

You know what they say Jim, competition is good for the market and good for customers.

Now that MTH has entered the S scale market I'll bet that the offerings coming from Lionel with their American Flyer line will also increase.

 

One of the problems with S scale is that until now no large manufacturer has really tried to develop that niche of the market. That will soon change as more and more product and accesories find themselves available to modelers.

 

Steve Tapper 

Steve

 

We need to recognize how well S helper did fill that niche market, developing a nice line of Flyer compatible track well before there was a fastrack product of any kind. They offered a variety of locomotives and detailed freight cars quite like an Atlas product. The company offerred train sets and published catalogs for a number of years.

 

Likewise with Lionel, their investment in an S gauge fastrack product and those detailed steamers of recent demonstrates an interest in my opinion. This year we have a stand alone Americn Flyer catalog for the first time in more than 40 years.

 

I hope that MTH continues the fine approach of S helper to the scale. I think that the downturn in the economy and the consolidation in the orient really hurt these people and the scale. 

 

It seems to look good for S gauge at this time

It's actually pretty amazing how much SHS has put out in the past 20 years.  They may not have put out the mega-catalogs like Lionel and MTH, but for a small company, the two guys from Jersey did all right.

 

Even American Models, even though they only put out one catalog a couple of years ago, has put out quite a fair variety of equipment  since 1985.  Hopefully AM will get rolling again soon.

 

Add in the new scale proportioned stuff Lionel/Flyer's been doing since about '03, although all hirail 'till this year, River Raisin, S Scale America(formerly Pacific Rail Shops,) the dearly departed Omnicon and Southwind Models, plus Overland's brief foray into S many moons ago, there's been quite a bit available in a scale where "nuthin's available!"

 

Now, if we can get Woodland Scenics and Walther's involved in making S scale structures...

 

Rusty

Mark my words Rusty... We will see RTR structures from MTH in S in the near future. Just like in O.

 I have been a little late in responding to the thread. I have just been reading everyone else's and taking it all in.

  I think this is the biggest thing to happen to "S", since Lionel decided to re-issue freight cars back in 1979! MTH is the Leader in model railroading command systems(IMO).

  They have done incredible work in continually producing smaller boards to fit in various locomotives and scales, without comprimising sound quality.

  I wish MTH the best success, and I hope they continue with the DCS system in the "S" scale line.

  Looking forward to seeing some F7's in GN and the old CNR paint scheme. Plus some #5 turnouts and crossovers.

 Truly a new era for "S" gauge.    Al

Trying to figure out why this thread is so "special" for so long on the Three-Rail Forum.  Not understanding...my bad, I guess.  

RT:

I think it's possibly a whiff of cedar-scented smoke wafting up lazily towards one's nostrils, or perhaps the memories of those wonderful little soft red plastic smoke fluid dispensers, or even the more prototypical two-rail track mounted firmly in pliable rubber roadbed with the ties molded into the ballast.

The absolute numbers of Gilbertistas surely must lag behind the Lionelistas of the dim and distant past.  Nonetheless, there are doubtless legions of once youthful American Flyer fans yet out there.  They must be figuratively licking their chops over the prospects of MTH-enabled fulfillment of their garish-catalog-art-inspired dreams from yesteryear!  Yes, they're here.  They've patiently and quietly lived among us swashbuckling three-railers for decades.  It's they who are keeping this thread alive and thriving!  I find that somehow deliciously refreshing.

EnlightenedBearishOne

EnlightenedBearishOne:

You've hit the nail on the head, even if you didn't have to.

Thanks, Rich!

 

Once in awhile I get lucky and hit the nail rather than my entire thumb!

 

Even though I had Marx and Lionel as a kid and got hooked on three-rail very early, I did have friends whose parents, for whatever reasons, started them out on two-rail Flyer trains instead of the more well known and popular Lionel, or the less costly products of Louis Marx and Company. 

 

Playground disagreements about the virtues of two versus three aside, I confess I was always a little jealous of the fact that my pals' Flyer trains had the same number of parallel rails as the 1:1 Union Pacific and Great Northern roads which served our little wheat-growing town in eastern Washington!  They always won the prototypical accuracy argument by default, but were able to back it up with articles about the relative realism of Flyer track in the Gilbert catalog if the obvious wasn't persuasive enough.

 

Playing with my buddies' trains after school also hooked me on cedar-scented smoke.  Even these days, when I'm strolling through the Orange Hall at York, a whiff of that nostalgic stuff always draws me inexorably towards the smoke fluid dealers' booths.  Only there can I relive treasured olfactory toy train moments from my youth.  Nothing propels  imagination quite like aroma!

 

PoeticallyAromaticBear

 

 

Humm.  Good stuff!!  Great memories!! 

 

Still....  Three-rail.  Two rail.  Humm.

Let's try to keep this topic going for six months.  MTH needs the hype.

 

Norm

Once MTH gets S production rolling, there will be plenty of hype to go around!

 (Incuding, not doubt, some kool-aid wars...)

 

Rusty

Having never needed to watch the way MTH has done business in the past, I am not sure when they put their catalogs out. Is it a safe bet that they will be out by York in the fall just like Lionel?

MTH usually releases the catalogs at Yorktime.  Them's that go to York gets them there, it usually goes online the Monday after York and the rest of the folks wanting a hard copy get to wait another week or two or so.

 

Rusty

Look for the S scale catalog around November according to MTH. They are working to get the others ready for York. The S catalog should follow shortly after.