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First we are new to the forum, so thank you for participating and allowing us to join in on the fun,

We are in our mid sixties and bought our first train set ever, also a first for both of us, to play with under the Christmas tree. We have had so much fun with it that we bought another starter set. The first set is a Lionel lion chief set that we control with a hand held throttle, the second is a MTH F-3 A/B set from late 1999 that came with a transformer and a control console. It has proto sound 1 and Direction, Bells, and Whistle button. Both sets work very well and are easy to use.

We purchased a used MTH GP-38 20-2255-1 for our MTH layout that has proto sound 2, We only have the MTH Z-750 Transformer that came with the MTH F3 starter set and the MTH control panel, with the bell whistle and direction buttons. The MTH set is 24VDC where the Lionel set is 15VDC so we have the new to us GP-38 on the MTH track. When I turn the power up on the controller the Engine starts and the bell is ringing and ringing and - well you get the idea.

The horn button doesn't make the horn blow but will shut the bell noise off eventually, the bell button starts the ringing all over again that won't respond to the control panel bell's button.

The engine runs well and it's sounds much like the the F3 set "type of sound" + announcements every once in awhile like normal. No horn or whistle control. The controller won't do the 1B 5R thing, you can see the lock-on pulse when you push the button but nothing happens with the engine. With the F3 I can lower the throttle and bring it back up to neutral then lower and raise to the opposite direction. With the GP38 it just goes to neutral until you push the direction button then it starts out in either direction depending on the amount of time it takes to turn the power up and down?

The battery is fully charged, Track is clean, I can't reset obviously with the buttons not making the Engine respond. the closest train store is over a hundred miles away and with MTH liquidating on the way to closing up shop. All help will be appreciated

Thanking you in advance,

Carl

Last edited by Carl_Wicks_177
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We only have the MTH 1000W Transformer that came with the MTH starter set and the MTH control panel, with the bell whistle and direction buttons. The MTH set is 24VDC where the Lionel set is 15VDC so we have the new to us GP-38 on the MTH track.

Just to be clear, do you have the MTH Z-1000 transformer/controller as below (it's 100W vs. 1000W):

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And what do you mean by MTH set is 24VDC?

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Is it practical to put BOTH your MTH PS2 GP38 and your MTH PS1 F-3 on the track?  It's not to physically run them but to check the bell and whistle behavior when you apply power from the Z-750 transformer and controller.  Or maybe you already did this.

I knew I had a Z-750 transformer in a box somewhere and I finally found it.  To confirm, your Z750 transformer says 24V AC output (as opposed to 21V AC):

IMG_7165

I'm not saying this is a problem but just like to put all the cards on the table so to speak!

Using multimeter set to DC Volts (red test probe to center rail, black test probe to outer rail):

- Don't have a GP38 but put a PS2 diesel on track.  Set throttle to half-way of range.  Engine starts up.

- DC volts bounces around but measures less than +/-0.2V DC.

- Press WHISTLE.  DC volts bounces around but between +3.5V to +4.5V DC. Horn blows.

- Press BELL.  DC volts bounces around but between -3.5V and -4.5V DC.  Bell toggles on/off.

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Mine looks like your transformer except it reads 120V 150W input and 24V 3.75A 90VA out.

I put the F3 on the track with her, the bells and whistles don't respond on the F3 while the GP38 blares the horn and bells. Both light up like normal (lights) The F3 operates normally once I remove the GP-38. Ill poke around with the measurements and report back.

God Bless the designer of the Amplifier and Speaker Board, that's the first time I heard the GP with the horn and bells at the same time. Wow!

IMG_7166

Presumably you have MTH Realtrax?  In which case, yes, the lock-on BLACK is only connected to the outer rail closest to the side the lock-on plugs in.  Without getting into the "nuances" of why other track systems electrically connect the outer-rails within each piece of track section is a separate discussion.

Meanwhile...back at the ranch.  I re-read your original post.  As I understand it, the GP38 was purchased used.  What assurance do you have that it is functional in conventional mode?

Hopefully one of the MTH/DCS gurus will chime in, but I can imagine a failure-mode where an engine can function in DCS command-mode but exhibit the behavior indicated in conventional mode.  In other words, the previous owner who only operated in DCS command-mode could say in good faith that the engine works great.

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Last edited by stan2004

Yes. That's the picture exactly like ours with the MTH loc-on. The owner only ran it in DCS mode. It functioned correctly when he demonstrated it. We ran it for quite some time while he talked about DCS and showed us how he had it set up on his layout. He said that he only used DCS and something else on his HO trains.

I thought that MTH Engines except ProtoSound 3 would run in DCS and conventual mode by choosing the mode with the bell and whistle button menu so it never occurred to me that it wouldn't nor to him.

Susanne and I will definitely do our homework before we add anything else to our train lay out that is supposed to be plug n play.

  I can't thank you enough for the help and your time.

Best Regards,

Carl

Re-Reading the MTH GP38-2 operating instructions this morning it states,

"*ProtoSounds®2 needs over 14 volts of power to work properly. Overloading or using in-line accessories with this transformer may lower the peak voltage below ProtoSounds® minimum requirements."

This MTHZ-750 was built for a 1999 MTH Proto Sound 1 Starter Set Engine. Can it simply be that it isn't powerful enough to supply the Rated power to the GP38-2 Proto Sound 2 Engine??

Good morning Joe,

Yes. I am home. My legs don't work so well these days.

We are planning on building a O Scale layout, we are still in the planning stage, how we want it to look and elevations etc. we found helpful material on this forum for that part. We are going to have three separate train track systems for the three eras that we want to model.

So yes we will be getting a transformer or transformers  for the trains.

How do you tie the rails together?

Last edited by Carl_Wicks_177

Carl, I have a z750 transformer that does this exact same thing. Unfortunately the problem is with the 750 controller (the brick power supply is okay). Try a different transformer if you have one available.

As a simple test, you can use test leads from your Z750 power brick barrel jack and apply power directly to the track to startup your engine.  This engine should start up at high voltage (in Neutral) but the bell nor whistle will continuously operate.

let’s make sure the proto sounds work properly.  With the engine running forward if you press and hold the yellow bell button after a few seconds you will hear a wooshing noise, Now you can release the yellow bell button.The bell keep ringing until you hit the direction button this is the freight yard sounds  now you have to cycle through the direction button  a couple times until the engine takes off on its own and when the bell stops ringing you now have full control of the engine again .This is in the manual under freight yard sounds so start with this and it will be telling us the transformer is operating properly

Ummm, Okay. Yep that all worked, it was locked in forward after the yellow button test. I cycled the throttle a couple of times and held the yellow button again while it was running to get it back to the FWD-NEU-REV mode. I don't have the instruction paperwork on the F3 it didn't come with the set we purchased and I couldn't find Pre-2000 on MTH's website so this was a shot in the dark.

Last edited by Carl_Wicks_177

OK now for the factory reset you’re going to have to push the white button fairly quickly and then the yellow button five times pretty fast.  If done properly after pressing The yellow button five times the horn will blow twice if it does not you have to try again it just took me about 4 times to get it right

Do not push and hold the white button you have to tap it really fast so the horn doesn’t blow and then five real quick  5 on the yellow. If done properly after the five quick yellows the horn will blast twice I’ve been doing this for many years and it still took me about four times to do it right I got an engine right in front of me running That I’m testing it with

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