So I was looking at the bulb replacements, and found that they are LEDs, so the forward marker lights on the smoke box are red, I think green would be more appropriate right? Question is, are these 1.5mm leds? And where to source green ones? Or just put the red Back?
Thanks
Replies sorted oldest to newest
The class LED's for the MTH locomotives as well as the tender markers, are 2mm ceramic Lumex LED's. Sadly, they're now out of production, so the only way I know of getting them is ordering the set from MTH.
@gunrunnerjohn posted:The class LED's for the MTH locomotives as well as the tender markers, are 2mm ceramic Lumex LED's. Sadly, they're now out of production, so the only way I know of getting them is ordering the set from MTH.
Ok, thanks. May just keep the red.... or is that a no no for being prototypical?
Nothing is a no no in modeling.
Well, red isn't prototypical for the class lights, but there's nothing to say you can't use them anyway. 
"Regular" trains didn't have their markers lit. White would be the first choice of color, followed by green, Red, no no no!
Jim, my trains always have a trailing section following, so I use green.
Yea, im just putting the red back in.
So I worked on installing the new firebox leds and the cab light. What do you think? May dim down the cab led a bit.
Cab led
Hard to say from videos, but it's easy to change intensity, just add a little more resistance. With the Super-Chuffer, the cab light is out when moving, so I don't worry too much about fine tuning the intensity.
What did you use for the firebox flicker?
@gunrunnerjohn posted:Hard to say from videos, but it's easy to change intensity, just add a little more resistance. With the Super-Chuffer, the cab light is out when moving, so I don't worry too much about fine tuning the intensity.
What did you use for the firebox flicker?
Yea, thats what I was thinking. The super chuffer and chuff generator show up tomorrow.
I got 100 5mm yellow flickering leds off Amazon for like 8 bucks. I like that the yellow pulls down all the red on the lens that mth glued to the inside of the firebox.
Never understood why lionel uses red, when orange to yellow is more accurate to coal burning hot enough to generate steam. Im changing some of my locos to orange I think.
So, any ideas to get the bulb out to upgrade to led?
The bulb in the cab? Just push it out from the cab side, it's in a rubber grommet. Truthfully, for cab lighting, I typically use an incandescent bulb as it more evenly spreads the light. For the Super-Chuffer cab light, I use a 12-18V bulb and drive it from the cab light control output.
@gunrunnerjohn posted:The bulb in the cab? Just push it out from the cab side, it's in a rubber grommet. Truthfully, for cab lighting, I typically use an incandescent bulb as it more evenly spreads the light. For the Super-Chuffer cab light, I use a 12-18V bulb and drive it from the cab light control output.
No this is the head light in the pics.
Sorry, I thought we were still talking about the cab light. 
The headlight will be "interesting" to convert to LED. I've done a bunch of them as that's one of the features of the Super-Chuffer upgrade. First off, you have to take the headlight off the pilot, that involves, of course, removing the pilot first. That doesn't look like the Premier, is that the RailKing model? Here's a Premier Y3B, the Y6B pilot and light should look the same.
You have to remove the front headlight lens. Then I use a 3528 SMT led and solder some fine wires to it, insulate it with Liquid Tape, and glue it inside the light aligned with the headlight opening. Then I reassemble the headlight, mount it on the pilot, and put the pilot back on.
@gunrunnerjohn posted:Sorry, I thought we were still talking about the cab light.
The headlight will be "interesting" to convert to LED. I've done a bunch of them as that's one of the features of the Super-Chuffer upgrade. First off, you have to take the headlight off the pilot, that involves, of course, removing the pilot first. That doesn't look like the Premier, is that the RailKing model? Here's a Premier Y3B, the Y6B pilot and light should look the same.
You have to remove the front headlight lens. Then I use a 3528 SMT led and solder some fine wires to it, insulate it with Liquid Tape, and glue it inside the light aligned with the headlight opening. Then I reassemble the headlight, mount it on the pilot, and put the pilot back on.
Its a premier. Sounds like a pain. The screw is hard to get to, I don't have a right angle phillips that small. If I just wanted to put a resistor on it, what value? Also would I need a 1/2 watt? Maybe leaving it till it goes out is a better option?
Thanks
You don't need a right-angle screwdriver, the pilot comes off, and there should be a hole to allow you to remove the headlight with a straight slot screwdriver.
You can't power the incandescent bulb from the Super-Chuffer headlight output, it's designed to power ONE white LED. That's why I developed a way to do the pilot mounted lights.
To power the 60ma incandescent 6V MTH bulb from the TMCC headlight output, you'll need a 133 ohm 1 watt resistor. I'd also add a diode as if the engine happens to come up in conventional mode, it gets full track power and that will either kill the bulb or cook the resistor.
@gunrunnerjohn posted:You don't need a right-angle screwdriver, the pilot comes off, and there should be a hole to allow you to remove the headlight with a straight slot screwdriver.
You can't power the incandescent bulb from the Super-Chuffer headlight output, it's designed to power ONE white LED. That's why I developed a way to do the pilot mounted lights.
To power the 60ma incandescent 6V MTH bulb from the TMCC headlight output, you'll need a 133 ohm 1 watt resistor. I'd also add a diode as if the engine happens to come up in conventional mode, it gets full track power and that will either kill the bulb or cook the resistor.
Ok, I pulled the pilot off, looks like I can get a 3mm warm white led in there, there was a standard grain of wheat bulb in before. May have to paint the base of the led black to keep it from shining down, but it looks good. Maybe some ca glue to keep it up in the lamp housing?
The problem with the 3mm LED is it shines up and not forward. That's why I go the extra mile with my conversions.
Don't use CA to secure it, maybe something like Liquid tape. That will keep it in place and block the light. The bonus is it's soft and if you have to remove the LED, you can. Finally, the CA will cloud the headlight lens, not exactly a desirable result.
@gunrunnerjohn posted:The problem with the 3mm LED is it shines up and not forward. That's why I go the extra mile with my conversions.
Don't use CA to secure it, maybe something like Liquid tape. That will keep it in place and block the light. The bonus is it's soft and if you have to remove the LED, you can. Finally, the CA will cloud the headlight lens, not exactly a desirable result.
Yea, I was thinking of popping out the lens and see if I can get a 3 or maybe 5mm led to fit. It would replace the lens.
Making the corner in the back it tricky. If you do try that, I recommend a 3mm flat flangeless LED. As I wanted to keep the look of the stock headlight lens, that wasn't an option for me.
If i use the smd led, how did you get the lens off?
That's the kind of LED I use, but I buy them unsoldered in a tape.
Well, if it has lighted number boards, I use an X-acto knife and gently pry one off. Then I push the other one off. With them out of the way, you can then push the lens out from the back.
If it doesn't have lighted number boards, it's a bit harder, you have to work in the lens from the front with the X-acto or use something like a crooked dental tool to push from the back up through the hole the bulb fits into.
@gunrunnerjohn posted:That's the kind of LED I use, but I buy them unsoldered in a tape.
Well, if it has lighted number boards, I use an X-acto knife and gently pry one off. Then I push the other one off. With them out of the way, you can then push the lens out from the back.
If it doesn't have lighted number boards, it's a bit harder, you have to work in the lens from the front with the X-acto or use something like a crooked dental tool to push from the back up through the hole the bulb fits into.
Great thanks.
Got the super chuffer, I was wondering if I could use the existing encoder tape that MTH uses? Or am I to use yours?
Thanks
Any black & white strips will work as long as they're in decent shape.
Thanks
Weird thing happened with the smd LED. Supplying it with 3vdc from a bench top power supply, its dim but on, put a 470ohm resistor and 1n4003 diode on the positive and connected to the 18vac lionel power supply and nice and bright. I was worried that the 3vdc the super chuffer puts out may not be enough..... off the 18vac power supply, i get 4vac and 1.4vdc at the led. The bench ps was at 3vdc. Measured with a calibrated fluke process meter.
Any ideas? Seems weird.....
The Super-Chuffer puts out 5V through a 100 ohm limiting resistor. Of the hundreds shipped, there have never been an instance of a problem lighting a standard white LED. Remove the diode and resistor and the LED will light just fine. Note that you MUST provide an input headlight signal on pin-3 of the S-C to tell the S-C when the headlight should be on. This normally comes from the TMCC R2LC headlight output.
@gunrunnerjohn posted:The Super-Chuffer puts out 5V through a 100 ohm limiting resistor. Of the hundreds shipped, there have never been an instance of a problem lighting a standard white LED. Remove the diode and resistor and the LED will light just fine. Note that you MUST provide an input headlight signal on pin-3 of the S-C to tell the S-C when the headlight should be on. This normally comes from the TMCC R2LC headlight output.
Is there a way to provide that headlight input to test it on the bench before i put the pilot back together?
Thanks
Sure, just connect almost any voltage up to around 20 volts the pin-3 the headlight input to the Super-Chuffer. It accepts positive or negative or AC voltage to indicate the headlight should be on. Obviously, the LED anode is wired to pin-4 of the S-C and the cathode of the LED to ground on the S-C.
@gunrunnerjohn posted:Sure, just connect almost any voltage up to around 20 volts the pin-3 the headlight input to the Super-Chuffer. It accepts positive or negative or AC voltage to indicate the headlight should be on. Obviously, the LED anode is wired to pin-4 of the S-C and the cathode of the LED to ground on the S-C.
Ok great, then I could use the 5v output to the chuff generator?
Its weird, the lamp housing on the Y6b has side number lights, but the casting is solid behind them..... you'd think they would open them up to have them lighted, cost cutting I guess.....
Yep, you can use the +5V from pin-10 to pin-3, that will turn on the lighting output.
@gunrunnerjohn posted:Yep, you can use the +5V from pin-10 to pin-3, that will turn on the lighting output.
The two schematics you have in the Super-Chuffer manual, does the first one give me all the options of the Super-Chuffer like idle smoke when stopped?
What the difference between the two?
Yes, either gives you the options described in the Super-Chuffer document.
The second wiring diagram is to illustrate additional things you can add to enhance the operation. The Chuff-Generator and the 2-level smoke control are extras that are not part of the Super-Chuffer basic package.
@gunrunnerjohn posted:Yep, you can use the +5V from pin-10 to pin-3, that will turn on the lighting output.
I must have damaged the led with heat, still dim
No, you just don't understand how Rule-17 lighting works! The headlight is dimmed when stopped, and bright when moving.
What is wired to pin-5 of the Super-Chuffer? Are you using a Chuff-Generator or a mechanical chuff switch? If the Super-Chuffer sees chuffing, the headlight will be bright.
@gunrunnerjohn posted:No, you just don't understand how Rule-17 lighting works! The headlight is dimmed when stopped, and bright when moving.
What is wired to pin-5 of the Super-Chuffer? Are you using a Chuff-Generator or a mechanical chuff switch? If the Super-Chuffer sees chuffing, the headlight will be bright.
I ordered some of the smt units from Amazon, 100 for $7 isn't bad. Besides, the warm led doent seem right for a headlight.
The led I pulled off has damage, I used a heat gun to remove, dont have an smt heat pencil.
As I'm putting the Y6b together, I'm wondering about the rs2.5 board. It has inputs for a chuff switch, is it required? Or will chuff data be provided by the serial input like I hope?
Well, that's an interesting question. Many of the RS 2.5 boards did handle the chuff in the serial data, but some didn't and it was generated in the tender with a hall effect sensor and magnet on an axle.
The only way to know is send the serial data to the board and see if you get a chuff. 
@gunrunnerjohn posted:Well, that's an interesting question. Many of the RS 2.5 boards did handle the chuff in the serial data, but some didn't and it was generated in the tender with a hall effect sensor and magnet on an axle.
The only way to know is send the serial data to the board and see if you get a chuff.
Yea, thought I'd see what I was in store for..... this board came with power wires soldered on, if im correct, it should get power from the CC serial and power harness right?
It can get power from the track directly as long as it's ground and the CC ground is the same. Being of the somewhat lazy type, I like the one connector to the CC for the RailSounds that I can just unplug to remove the sound board.
@gunrunnerjohn posted:It can get power from the track directly as long as it's ground and the CC ground is the same. Being of the somewhat lazy type, I like the one connector to the CC for the RailSounds that I can just unplug to remove the sound board.
Yea thats what I'm going to do, I will unsolder the power wires off the board to clean up the install.
Don't want to hijack this thread, but I have a question regarding a similar headlight mod. I recently added Super Chuffer to a Lionmaster Challenger and was faced with converting the GOW headlight to LED. See picture below.
The housing is a bottom entry and too tight for a standard 3mm led with flange, so I ground off the flange to make it fit. I got it in there OK, but of course its at 90 degrees to the lens at the front of the housing. The headlight looks OK, but not very bright like others I have done where the bulb/Led enters directly through the back of the housing. What to do? I thought of maybe drilling a hole into the back of the housing, but that might make the wires a little hard to hide.
Any other ideas how this could be made better? Like I say, it's passable, but not great.
Thanks, Rod
@Rod Stewart posted:Any other ideas how this could be made better? Like I say, it's passable, but not great.
Yep, if it has illuminated numbers, gently pry one of those out, I use an X-acto knife. Then just push the other one out from the open side. Finally, push the headlight lens out from the back with a curved tool. If the numbers are not illuminated, you'll have to just work the headlight lens out with something like an X-acto knife point. As a last resort, I drill a tiny hole in the back and use a small rod to push the headlight lens out.
Next, I use a 3528 SMT LED and solder fine wires to it. I coat the back with a layer or two of Liquid Tape. I slide that assembly up into alignment with the headlight lens and glue it in place. My technique is to put a spot of CA adhesive on the back, slide it up into place, and then using a small piece of wood dowel, press on it and clamp it with a spring clamp to dry. Put all the lenses back in place and you have a working headlight.
Yes, it's a bit of a PITA, that's why I now charge a few bucks extra for pilot mounted headlights in my LED upgrades.
Thanks John for that detailed description. I may give that a try. I wonder if I pry off one of the number boards, if there might be enough room to grab the led with tweezers and bend it to a horizontal position behind the lens? That might be worth a try I think. Is there enough room from your experience?
Rod
Don't do it. Once you get one number board off, the other one just pushes off. However, taking the lens out is mandatory if you use CA adhesive as the vapors will cloud the lens. Also, I actually tried once to put one in with just the number boards out, but it's VERY difficult to position. Since with the number boards removed, it's not a big deal to push the lens out, I just do the job right.
@Rod Stewart posted:Thanks John for that detailed description. I may give that a try. I wonder if I pry off one of the number boards, if there might be enough room to grab the led with tweezers and bend it to a horizontal position behind the lens? That might be worth a try I think. Is there enough room from your experience?
Rod
The SMD led upgrade is very nice. You can get 100 of them for like $7 on amazon. I will post pics soon.
So Gunner,
I installed the chuff generator and super chuffer. The CC is in the tender and I'm not done with the tender yet, so I put the engine only on the track. I noticed the smoke fan was on and the cab light. After about 10sec the fan turned off and the cab light sort of flickered then off.
I reset power and the cab light came back and flickerd off again, the smoke fan did not come back.
Is this expected with no outside inputs to the Super chuffer connected?
Thanks
What you normally see is the headlight will be off and the cab light on if the S-C isn't connected to a TMCC lighting output. The smoke fan should also be off if you don't have smoke power. The cab light should be on if there's no chuffs being input.
@gunrunnerjohn posted:What you normally see is the headlight will be off and the cab light on if the S-C isn't connected to a TMCC lighting output. The smoke fan should also be off if you don't have smoke power. The cab light should be on if there's no chuffs being input.
Hmm, the cab light has me worried...... its an led with a 470ohm resistor and diode......ahhh just saw my issue, I should have a lower value resistor since thats a 12vac output right?
The 470 is fine. If you just power up the Super-Chuffer with only power and the cab light connected, the cab light should light. If it doesn't, something is amiss.
@gunrunnerjohn posted:The 470 is fine. If you just power up the Super-Chuffer with only power and the cab light connected, the cab light should light. If it doesn't, something is amiss.
It does power on, then after 5sec it will flicker a bit then go off.
could there be a super chuffer issue?
@Coalguy posted:So Gunner,
I installed the chuff generator and super chuffer. The CC is in the tender and I'm not done with the tender yet, so I put the engine only on the track. I noticed the smoke fan was on and the cab light. After about 10sec the fan turned off and the cab light sort of flickered then off.
You put the CG in the tender? Ummmhh, as I understand it, the CG needs to read a tach strip on a motor flywheel to get and sync the chuff signal. How will this work? What did I miss?
Rod
Oh I see its a Cruise Commander in the tender; my mistake. All good.
Rod
@Coalguy posted:could there be a super chuffer issue?
Anything's possible, but it's pretty rare for those to do something odd like that. I personally test each one before it goes out. You can send it back to me and I'll check it out, obviously you'll have to take it out. I did have a couple of bad FETs in the motor drive and cab light circuit show up in this production run, so it's possible.
If you decide to send it back, don't try to desolder the wires, just cut them off at the board. I wouldn't want to risk soldering damage trying to desolder it, I have the tools to do it easily.
@gunrunnerjohn posted:Anything's possible, but it's pretty rare for those to do something odd like that. I personally test each one before it goes out. You can send it back to me and I'll check it out, obviously you'll have to take it out. I did have a couple of bad FETs in the motor drive and cab light circuit show up in this production run, so it's possible.
If you decide to send it back, don't try to desolder the wires, just cut them off at the board. I wouldn't want to risk soldering damage trying to desolder it, I have the tools to do it easily.
I will let you know, but I want to get this guy running, maybe it will go away...... if it keeps doing it, I will send it back. I have a bulb de solder gun.
Remember, the most important part is not getting a PCB too hot or leaving the heat on too long. That will delaminate the traces, then you will need a new board.
@gunrunnerjohn posted:Anything's possible, but it's pretty rare for those to do something odd like that. I personally test each one before it goes out. You can send it back to me and I'll check it out, obviously you'll have to take it out. I did have a couple of bad FETs in the motor drive and cab light circuit show up in this production run, so it's possible.
If you decide to send it back, don't try to desolder the wires, just cut them off at the board. I wouldn't want to risk soldering damage trying to desolder it, I have the tools to do it easily.
Does the flicker then off of the cab light fit with a bad fet?
@Coalguy posted:Does the flicker then off of the cab light fit with a bad fet?
Actually, it does, the cab LED is one that was failing, and it would come on dim for a short period of time, then go out. I actually changed my test-set to provide a larger load on that part to insure it was functioning properly, but I suspect maybe that's not a 100% reliable indicator.
@gunrunnerjohn posted:Actually, it does, the cab LED is one that was failing, and it would come on dim for a short period of time, then go out. I actually changed my test-set to provide a larger load on that part to insure it was functioning properly, but I suspect maybe that's not a 100% reliable indicator.
So we are fairly certain that the chuffer is bad then? It was dim then off. So the fan will probably fail too Huh? Explains why it was running then just stopped. Im going to finish up the CC and sound in the tender to make sure it all works, then i will send back the chuffer. I will need your address too.
@gunrunnerjohn posted:Actually, it does, the cab LED is one that was failing, and it would come on dim for a short period of time, then go out. I actually changed my test-set to provide a larger load on that part to insure it was functioning properly, but I suspect maybe that's not a 100% reliable indicator.
can i just change out the fets? Or too much of a pita?
@Coalguy posted:can i just change out the fets? Or too much of a pita?
Actually, while I can explain the cab light, and even maybe the fan, this was a very random failure, and I only had half a dozen in 200 boards, and never two on one board. Also, it doesn't explain the headlight flickering, that comes right from the uP, and the input that turns it on/off goes through an opto-isolator, so I still don't understand what is happening.
I'll send you my address and you can send it back and I'll track it down. Since you don't have a profile email address, look in my user profile and send me an email and I'll send you the details on shipping it back.
@gunrunnerjohn posted:Actually, while I can explain the cab light, and even maybe the fan, this was a very random failure, and I only had half a dozen in 200 boards, and never two on one board. Also, it doesn't explain the headlight flickering, that comes right from the uP, and the input that turns it on/off goes through an opto-isolator, so I still don't understand what is happening.
I'll send you my address and you can send it back and I'll track it down. Since you don't have a profile email address, look in my user profile and send me an email and I'll send you the details on shipping it back.
The headlight was never an issue, sorry for the confusion, just cab light and fan.
Shoot me an email and I'll give you a mailing address.
Access to this requires an OGR Forum Supporting Membership
