@Bossman284 posted:

M.T.H. Z-4000 Price Change And Order Deadline

June 16, 2021 - M.T.H. Electric Trains will be reintroducing the Z-4000 for release in late 2021 at a higher MSRP that reflects significant manufacturing component price increases incurred this year. All previous unfulfilled orders for the Z-4000 promoted in the 2020 catalogs are canceled and can not be honored. These price increases are completely out of M.T.H.'s control and are the direct result of global supply and demand dynamics that have had crushing effects on virtually every industry as the world economy rebounds from the global pandemic.

The new MSRP for the Z-4000 is $649.95. While higher than the previous MSRP, the Z-4000 still carries the most value per watt than any other AC Output transformer in the market and is still considerably less than comparable models from other manufacturers. The Z-4000 has consistently been M.T.H.'s best-selling item, year in and year out, and model railroaders have come to rely on its consistent performance and reliability for nearly a quarter of a century.

The 2021 release will be the last year the Z-4000 will be produced in its current form as the microprocessor used to control the unit's power output will no longer be produced by electronic component manufacturers. While a replacement microprocessor hasn't yet been selected, when a new one is defined, the transformer will have to go through product safety testing and will likely be promoted as a completely different model. Such a model could be a year or two in the future, making this last run of Z-4000 transformers the best chance to obtain this legendary AC transformer before they're all gone.

The order deadline for the last production of Z-4000 transformers is June 30, 2021. Orders can be placed with any M.T.H. Authorized Retailer.

This is a good example of a post put into the wrong category.  Clearly the topic is talking about a specific MTH product thus should have been posted in the MTH products forum and not the 3-rail traditional forum.  It has been moved.  PLEASE help us by putting topics/posts in the most logical category based on the main focus of the topic.

A WHOPPING price increase!  It's making the 620 watt ZW-L look much better.

Wow, yes a big increase.  If I needed one, though, I'd still buy one.  I've been hooked since they were invented.  Makes me want to be extra careful with the 2 I have.

That's some unconventional math about value per watt, since the ZW-L is more than 50% more watts at less than 50% more dollars by my calculation. Of course, the ZW-L may see price increases as well.  Seems to me if you use Lionel's command system, the built-in powermasters make the ZW-L the choice.  The ability to remotely control the Z4000 used to be available through an add-on circuit board which hasn't been available for a while.  Probably comes down to brand preference in the end .  And whether you want to buy a transformer from a company that announced a year ago that they were going out of business.  Changes in plans happen, but it's a potential concern as to what MTH's future actually will be.  Then again, none of us is guaranteed tomorrow, especially at the age of the average 3 rail O gauge fan.

Note added:  I had no idea that fierce brand loyalty could lead to a mathematical error .  The ZW-L is generally available at higher discounts than the Z4000, but  even at MSRP, the cost per watt is $1.63 for the Z4000 and $1.45 for the ZW-L.  Just for those for whom math is not fun.  Not a huge difference, 12%.

My real concern is that there will be no new parts should the new ones fail...

Good old postwar zw😉

The one thing that the Z4000 has going for it is the close to pure sine wave, that's a factor in some calculations.  I ended up getting an MRC Pure Power 135 for my workbench so I could have a pure sine wave.

@Bossman284 posted:

My real concern is that there will be no new parts should the new ones fail...

A valid concern!

I worry about parts for both but at the new price the ZWL is the better value.

If I read this right they are kind of scraping the bottom of the barrel to make these, likely processor chips on hand. Even though the processing chips are not that likely to go IMO, it is taking a chance buying this for that reason. With the ZW-L it is in current production and I am assuming they have the parts (though with how fouled up global supply chain is these days, I wouldn't bet on it). Me I would buy the ZW-L, Marios had a great price on the ZW-L recently, I am only sorry I didn't have the funds, would have grabbed it at that price.

@bigkid posted:

Me I would buy the ZW-L, Marios had a great price on the ZW-L recently, I am only sorry I didn't have the funds, would have grabbed it at that price.

I don't need no stinkin' levers on my transformers!

I bought a ZLW a few months ago. I have been happy running both postwar and Lionel Legacy Locomotives with it.

Even twenty years ago I was not impressed with the prices of transformers from Lionel and MTH.  Decided to build my own.  Purchased a power transformer from Newark 120 volt primary 18 volt secondary at 20 amps max.  Fused the primary, fused the secondary, enclosed in a grounded metal box connected to. TPC300/TIU combo and I’ve never looked back.  With that price I’m really glad I went the way I did.

Hammond power transformer

The last ones again?  

"The last ones again? "

This is different. It's the final last ones .

@superwarp1 posted:

Even twenty years ago I was not impressed with the prices of transformers from Lionel and MTH.  Decided to build my own.  Purchased a power transformer from Newark 120 volt primary 18 volt secondary at 20 amps max.  Fused the primary, fused the secondary, enclosed in a grounded metal box connected to. TPC300/TIU combo and I’ve never looked back.  With that price I’m really glad I went the way I did.

Hammond power transformer

I try to work things in a DIY fashion when I can and was moving in this direction a few years ago as I've used Hammonds for power supplies for different projects over the years. The lack of circuit protection (I prefer more than just fuse protection for this application) held me back and at the time I was unaware of the PSX products. If I price the transformer and PSX now it comes to over $140 and I still need an enclosure. New PH-180s are available for $110 so the DIY method lost out this time.

I do use this simple method for powering all my switches. One step down from 120 to 14 vac, and a 4 amp fuse. This was the power supply for a PC satellite speaker system that is long gone.

@turkey_hollow_rr posted:

I try to work things in a DIY fashion when I can and was moving in this direction a few years ago as I've used Hammonds for power supplies for different projects over the years. The lack of circuit protection (I prefer more than just fuse protection for this application) held me back and at the time I was unaware of the PSX products. If I price the transformer and PSX now it comes to over $140 and I still need an enclosure. New PH-180s are available for $110 so the DIY method lost out this time.

I do use this simple method for powering all my switches. One step down from 120 to 14 vac, and a 4 amp fuse. This was the power supply for a PC satellite speaker system that is long gone.

The Lionel Powerhouse 180s are now $209.99 MSRP up from $149.99.  Same reason given is material costs.

@turkey_hollow_rr posted:

I try to work things in a DIY fashion when I can and was moving in this direction a few years ago as I've used Hammonds for power supplies for different projects over the years. The lack of circuit protection (I prefer more than just fuse protection for this application) held me back and at the time I was unaware of the PSX products. If I price the transformer and PSX now it comes to over $140 and I still need an enclosure. New PH-180s are available for $110 so the DIY method lost out this time.

I do use this simple method for powering all my switches. One step down from 120 to 14 vac, and a 4 amp fuse. This was the power supply for a PC satellite speaker system that is long gone.

Forgot to mention I added PSX-AC , and transformers were much cheaper back then.  I would bet the next run of Power houses will go up big time.

That figures, and these days, to be expected. I image PSX's will see price increases also. Better grab the products on the shelves now if you need them!

@superwarp1 posted:

Even twenty years ago I was not impressed with the prices of transformers from Lionel and MTH.  Decided to build my own.  Purchased a power transformer from Newark 120 volt primary 18 volt secondary at 20 amps max.  Fused the primary, fused the secondary, enclosed in a grounded metal box connected to. TPC300/TIU combo and I’ve never looked back.  With that price I’m really glad I went the way I did.

Hammond power transformer

Same here Gary. These can be had on the auctions sites currently. Driven with a 0-140v variac they output 20v max at 25 amps. I use multiple TMCC Lock-Ons as I made this before PSX-ACs were avaialble. All the parts to duplicate this could be found on the auction site for around 150 bucks including the fast breakers.

Pete

If you don't need the handles:   Charles Ro   L85226 PH 180  109.95   While they last.

@MartyE posted:

The Lionel Powerhouse 180s are now $209.99 MSRP up from $149.99.  Same reason given is material costs.

WOW, I didn't notice they went up again!  In a few short years they went from an MSRP of $99.99 to over twice that.  Sure glad I bought a bunch when they were selling for well under the original MSRP!

BTW, where did you get your info?  I looked on the Lionel site...

@Landsteiner posted:

That's some unconventional math about value per watt, since the ZW-L is more than 50% more watts at less than 50% more dollars by my calculation.

The "value per watt" statement is carefully crafted so that price is not the only criteria for "value".

"The "value per watt" statement is carefully crafted so that price is not the only criteria for "value".

I'm sure they were referring to the Z4000's spiritual superiority .

What the heck is "value per watt" anyway?  Not in my electronics textbook.

@Landsteiner posted:

What the heck is "value per watt" anyway?  Not in my electronics textbook.

Precisely.

Bricks and static transformers like Norton & Superwarp describe above are hands-down the best price per watt even after you add a couple of PSX-AC units. 360 watts of power for $88 is dirt cheap, and you're still under $200 after adding two PSX-AC's for protection.

The ZW series are all good transformers and the ZW-L has developed into a status symbol when you consider the price per watt cost.  The Z4000, while also a great transformer never had the nostalgic look that any ZW added to a layout. I know to my dad the postwar ZW was the pinnacle of power for his layouts not just because it ran everything but because of the look of the device. When he replaced it with a Z4000, he instantly knew it was better but the old ZW had to stay even if it only ran the trolley and some accessories. We tried to replace them both with a ZW-L but the modified sine wave from the ZW-L made his old postwar trains growl and run louder than normal, it didn't make the cut.

The best thing the Z4000 had up to now was the price per watt cost was better than any other high wattage conventional control transformer. If this is truly the last run of Z4k's and MTH is exiting the big powerhouse market, they sure are capitalizing on the demand.

I really liked the idea of adding nostalgia to my train room years ago.  So I added a postwar transformer to power some accessories.  One night I fell asleep in the train room for several hours and when I woke up the plastic handles had melted off.  I dished nostalgia after that.  The Z4000 is safe, has great circuit breakers, has the phone plug in for remotes using conventional, works great with DCS, has volts and amp gauges built in, and, ultimately in my mind, all of these benefits truly define "value" for my money.  I also like the look and design.

On the other hand, I use landscape transformers for accessory power because they offer cheap, safe, generic power for a generic use at a very low price per watt.  And if I were just running DCS, the powered bricks make sense, too.  In fact, when I first learned about DCS, I think part of my resistance was not wanting to accept that the throttle handles weren't needed anymore.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I don't need no stinkin' levers on my transformers!

Yeah, well, yours uses Mr. Fusion as well, so what else could we expect?

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

WOW, I didn't notice they went up again!  In a few short years they went from an MSRP of $99.99 to over twice that.  Sure glad I bought a bunch when they were selling for well under the original MSRP!

BTW, where did you get your info?  I looked on the Lionel site...

It was shared from a dealer who received and email about the change.  I'm not sure when the price change takes effect.  I can't imagine this is a surprise given the state of things today.

Cab1L / Base1L sets, Legacy Powermsters, and GW180s were also mentioned as all going up in price.

Price increases were effective immediately when the email arrived about two weeks ago. It doesn’t mean the dealer has to raise his price on ones already in stock. Shop around.

Pete

@MartyE posted:

It was shared from a dealer who received and email about the change.  I'm not sure when the price change takes effect.  I can't imagine this is a surprise given the state of things today.

Cab1L / Base1L sets, Legacy Powermsters, and GW180s were also mentioned as all going up in price.

No big surprise, with MTH fading, Lionel will be emboldened to boost prices on pretty much everything!

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

No big surprise, with MTH fading, Lionel will be emboldened to boost prices on pretty much everything!

Well what I meant is that everyone is seeing an increase so I suspect Lionel has to offset the cost like everyone else.  It's business.

To be honest, IMO,  MTH isn't going anywhere for a while.  They basically said so in the release above where they state a new Z4000 type transformer would be redesigned for a new processor.

OGR - Regarding this Post being in the wrong category, this practice seems to be so prevalent on the OGR Forum - by several manufacturers - that me thinks it might be done deliberately to promote a product to a 'wider' audience. 😜

@MartyE posted:

Well what I meant is that everyone is seeing an increase so I suspect Lionel has to offset the cost like everyone else.  It's business.

To be honest, IMO,  MTH isn't going anywhere for a while.  They basically said so in the release above where they state a new Z4000 type transformer would be redesigned for a new processor.

So the way we can all understand it is that the Z4000 will be discontinued after this final run and new model transformer with a new internal design (possibly even external) will take it's place in a couple of years.

As far as the production run goes (to date), the Z4000 was on the market for 23 years and so far has had the longest production run vs. every other transformer offered previously by anyone including the Postwar ZW.

@H1000 posted:

So the way we can all understand it is that the Z4000 will be discontinued after this final run and new model transformer with a new internal design (possibly even external) will take it's place in a couple of years.

As far as the production run goes (to date), the Z4000 was on the market for 23 years and so far has had the longest production run vs. every other transformer offered previously by anyone including the Postwar ZW.

If MTH is going to produce an all new transformer in a year or two why not just wait for that one?

This makes me very happy that I have a Z-4000 for my AC trains and won't need another one for a long-long time and that my next layout will be running DC. 

When a transformer reaches the price point of a 3rd Rail diesel, I'm out!

@PH1975 posted:

OGR - Regarding this Post being in the wrong category, this practice seems to be so prevalent on the OGR Forum - by several manufacturers - that me thinks it might be done deliberately to promote a product to a 'wider' audience. 😜

Companies who are Forum Sponsors are allowed to post in any section they desire

@Madockawando posted:

If MTH is going to produce an all new transformer in a year or two why not just wait for that one?

Because I want/need one now.

My dad bought is ZW (Type R) in the late sixty's after he noticed it was no longer offered in the Lionel catalog. He called around to many hobby shops and hardware stores and finally found one that was still new in the box... he paid $90 which was well above the MSRP for any postwar ZW.

@H1000 posted:

Because I want/need one now.

My dad bought is ZW (Type R) in the late sixty's after he noticed it was no longer offered in the Lionel catalog. He called around to many hobby shops and hardware stores and finally found one that was still new in the box... he paid $90 which well above the MSRP for any postwar ZW.

Interesting... Is the Z4K transformer sold out and no longer in stock?  I did a quick check at Charles Ro, neither the Z4K and the ZWL seem to be available.  At Trainworld, the Lionel ZWL is in stock but the MTH Z4K is not in stock.

I suspect that Covid isolation has lead to a surge in layout building sales of transformers and track.

Legacy Station has the ZW-L in stock for $810 and Model Train Stuff says they have 4 of them at $830 for those interested. Google search does not yield any new Z4000s available, but I'd bet there are some dealers with stock somewhere.  For those who strongly prefer the Z4000s I'd think used makes sense as this has not been a trouble prone product.

@H1000 posted:

still new in the box... he paid $90

They were 39.99 at Madison Hardware in the 1960's

@MartyE posted:

Well what I meant is that everyone is seeing an increase so I suspect Lionel has to offset the cost like everyone else.  It's business.

To be honest, IMO,  MTH isn't going anywhere for a while.  They basically said so in the release above where they state a new Z4000 type transformer would be redesigned for a new processor.

To be honest, I'll believe their longevity when I see it.   I hope for the best, but I prepare for the worst.

@ADCX Rob posted:

They were 39.99 at Madison Hardware in the 1960's

So I had my dad check his records on the "new" ZW he purchased.  He bought in 1968 (the PW ZW last appearance in a catalog was in 1966) and it turns out that the ZW was actually $65. He also bought a few accessories and with the shipping, the total bill was around $91.

He remembered seeing it in the 66 catalog, forgot about in 67 because Lionel didn't have a catalog and when he saw the dismal 68 catalog he knew he better get one now because it's likely to never get an original one again. Lionel's future was very uncertain at the time.

Z4000's are popular and people like them, hence they have been mostly unchanged for 23 years (albeit minor changes from the first 1998 model). It's kind of an end of era for them and now is your last chance to get one. I'm sure the demand will be high and the price is set to accommodate. Will the successor be better?... some folks are not willing to take that chance nor do they like change.

@superwarp1 posted:

Even twenty years ago I was not impressed with the prices of transformers from Lionel and MTH.  Decided to build my own.  Purchased a power transformer from Newark 120 volt primary 18 volt secondary at 20 amps max.  Fused the primary, fused the secondary, enclosed in a grounded metal box connected to. TPC300/TIU combo and I’ve never looked back.  With that price I’m really glad I went the way I did.

Hammond power transformer

I'd like to see a picture of that. I just might build one myself.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I don't need no stinkin' levers on my transformers!

Yup. I'm in the same boat. With all command locomotives (TMCC/Legacy/DCS) my two 180W bricks are all I need. No need for throttles when the remote does everything I need it to do.

@H1000 posted:

So I had my dad check his records on the "new" ZW he purchased.  He bought in 1968 (the PW ZW last appearance in a catalog was in 1966) and it turns out that the ZW was actually $65. He also bought a few accessories and with the shipping, the total bill was around $91.

Many people don't consider actual costs at the time. Calculating inflation, in today's dollars your dad paid $503.00 for that ZW, and $704 with the accessories. Maybe a fair price at the time, but not really a bargain. Not many people were dropping $500+ on toy train transformers in those days.

@breezinup posted:

Many people don't consider actual costs at the time. Calculating inflation, in today's dollars your dad paid $503.00 for that ZW, and $704 with the accessories. Maybe a fair price at the time, but not really a bargain. Not many people were dropping $500+ on toy train transformers in those days.

All very true, Dad held off as long as thought he could an almost missed the boat. The PW ZW was the best of the best for the time and one pays a premium for that especially when you want a new one and they have been out of production for two years. While the Z4000 has a few technical features (trivial to some) over the ZW-L I don't think the Z4000 value point is there anymore after this price hike. You have to really like your PS1 engines and pure sine wave output to justify the new cost.

From 1966 to 1998 what high power premium transformers were available to buy? This is why dad never regretted buying that expensive ZW. If memory serves me correct the Z4000 was the next available option over a PW ZW in 1998 and the ZW-C soon after in 1999 (someone correct me if I am wrong on that year). That brief time was critical to MTH to develop a following for the Z4000 as Lionel had nothing to compete with it.

The pricing I've heard for the following...

Cab1L / Base 1L set current MSRP is $249.99 will be $299.99 MSRP   +$50

Legacy Powermaster current MSRP is $99.99 will be $209.99 MSRP   +$110

Powerhouse 180 current MSRP is $149.99 will be $209.99 MSRP  +$60

GW180 current MSRP is $279.99 will be $329.99 MSRP  +$50

So it really doesn't surprise me that the Z4K is increasing but what does surprise me is they are not honoring previous pre-orders.

To sum it up this is becoming a rich man's hobby.

@feet posted:

To sum it up this is becoming a rich man's hobby.

As has been said on here many times, it was never cheap, at least not the new stuff. Someone pointed out that a ZW in the late 60's was the equivalent of around 600 bucks today, Mario's for memorial day had the ZW-1 for like 635 (not any more, that was when the regular price was like 750). Look at the price of 50's trains in the day at today's levels, it wasn't cheap. Lot of us got used to when PW stuff was to be found where you could buy a huge box for like 50 bucks, but that was because the market was depressed on the used side.

Heck, I just saw an athearn Caboose with sound in MRR, and HO scale one, and it was like 149 bucks with the sound module, they had an athearn hopper that was like 45 bucks (MSRP, I understand, but still).

@bigkid posted:

As has been said on here many times, it was never cheap, at least not the new stuff. Someone pointed out that a ZW in the late 60's was the equivalent of around 600 bucks today, Mario's for memorial day had the ZW-1 for like 635 (not any more, that was when the regular price was like 750). Look at the price of 50's trains in the day at today's levels, it wasn't cheap. Lot of us got used to when PW stuff was to be found where you could buy a huge box for like 50 bucks, but that was because the market was depressed on the used side.

Heck, I just saw an athearn Caboose with sound in MRR, and HO scale one, and it was like 149 bucks with the sound module, they had an athearn hopper that was like 45 bucks (MSRP, I understand, but still).

No argument that good quality O gauge was never cheap.  However, not that long ago one could pursue HO or N on a budget, but not any more.  IMO, that's where the huge price increases are.  Granted, the products are far more sophisticated now (DCC, details on cars, etc.), but I miss the days when I could tell someone that a person with any budget could participate in our hobby.

“To sum it up this is becoming a rich man’s hobby”

This is true if you want high tech electronics, but you can buy a rebuilt postwar transformer and a nice MPC engine and cars for a very modest sum.  If the budget is even tighter you can pick up a Marx set and some used track and have more fun than a barrel of monkeys.  I know a gentleman who is on a very tight budget, he brings ten dollars to a train show. He picks up broken Plasticville and maybe a Marx car or two. He always shows me pictures of his layout and it is beautiful.  It was built from scrap lumber but you would never know it by looking at it.  I truly believe he is having as much fun as the guy with the unlimited budget.    

They can raise prices all they want, and I’ll continue not to purchase all I want.   Time will tell if the sales remain, whether or not the hobby can absorb these price increases.  I for one have plenty of stuff to keep me busy for years without buying anything new.

Hi Guys new to the hobby- would probably be interested in a used Z-4000 for my MTH 7 train (64 worlds fair) & my  Baby Blue Comet 263e  2.0 The rest in old ready to run Lionchief sets Polar Express Santa Fe super Chief & an one old K-line Coca-Cola set- My question is: what is a fair price for a z-4000 & what were the old serial numbers of the supposed bad z-4000`s That I had seen a tread about ( If even true) or should I stick with my z-1000 ( and CW80) that came with the sets?

I wanted to build my first 6x8 over & under with the help of a friend into the hobby & willing to help but don`t  want to get a bum transformer or ripped off either...P.S. where would be the best areas to put the bus connections on this as well- I have the MTH  24 Terminal block & what gauge wire for power to each leg? ( was told every 3-4 ft of track?)

                                                                                 Any advice would be greatly appreciated...Thank you!

@H1000 posted:

All very true, Dad held off as long as thought he could an almost missed the boat. The PW ZW was the best of the best for the time and one pays a premium for that especially when you want a new one and they have been out of production for two years. While the Z4000 has a few technical features (trivial to some) over the ZW-L I don't think the Z4000 value point is there anymore after this price hike. You have to really like your PS1 engines and pure sine wave output to justify the new cost.

From 1966 to 1998 what high power premium transformers were available to buy? This is why dad never regretted buying that expensive ZW. If memory serves me correct the Z4000 was the next available option over a PW ZW in 1998 and the ZW-C soon after in 1999 (someone correct me if I am wrong on that year). That brief time was critical to MTH to develop a following for the Z4000 as Lionel had nothing to compete with it.

IMO, the ZW-C was like a Chevy Vega. It did more to promote the competition than the competition did for itself. So I don't agree that a  "brief time" was critical to MTH. I think what was critical to MTH was a vastly superior, rock solid basic piece of equipment that was needed on almost every layout with modern electronics.

Gerry

@gmorlitz posted:

I don't agree that a  "brief time" was critical to MTH. I think what was critical to MTH was a vastly superior, rock solid basic piece of equipment that was needed on almost every layout with modern electronics.

Gerry

Unfortunately that's not what the first batch of Z-4000's turned out to be, according to some of our colleagues.

@Sal V pointed out above that he has a concern over those early units, apparently based upon comments he's heard on this forum.  There have been a number of reports of problems.  Too many to be discounted.

I agree that over time the Z-4000 has become a true flagship, but it wasn't automatically destined to be so.  That rock solid design came from tweaks occurring over a number of years, not from instantaneous performance on day one.

Mike

@Mellow Hudson Mike posted:

Unfortunately that's not what the first batch of Z-4000's turned out to be, according to some of our colleagues.

@Sal V pointed out above that he has a concern over those early units, apparently based upon comments he's heard on this forum.  There have been a number of reports of problems.  Too many to be discounted.

I agree that over time the Z-4000 has become a true flagship, but it wasn't automatically destined to be so.  That rock solid design came from tweaks occurring over a number of years, not from instantaneous performance on day one.

Mike

Yes Mike...Any ideas of how I can tell via serial numbers if it is an older model?

any particular year made? if yes can I tell the manufacture date on the box or on the serial number?

Any info would be greatly appreciated...Thanks!

@Sal V posted:

Yes Mike...Any ideas of how I can tell via serial numbers if it is an older model?

any particular year made? if yes can I tell the manufacture date on the box or on the serial number?

Any info would be greatly appreciated...Thanks!

While I'm not saying you don't want a newer or newest models, I think this saying old ones are bad is also too much negative hype.

The serial numbers indicate date of manufacture so 0398 would be March of 1998 the first batch.

Since I repair these, and the local club has 4 and I have 3 myself I have a little bit of experience on what to expect. The voltage leak is the primary problem where when the handle is all the way down with no load on the track, then you might see a volt or two on the track. There is either the 4 capacitor modification or externally just apply a load- as simple as a light bulb and that can eliminate the stray voltage. Like I said, the club has 4 of these, of them 3 needed load or modification.

The second known thing is the early versions did not have handle tension (how stiff the handle is to move) adjustment screws on the bottom. This was added later. Truth is, I've never adjusted them, at most I replaced the worn out plunger on the most used oldest one.

Showing a newer model with the adjuster screw, old models just have a flat spot where this screw would be.

Again, at this point, I know others have more experience but I've repaired 6 of these for customers (typically a blown channel with a shorted MOSFET), I've done over 10 voltage leak mods for those who wanted them vs just using something external. Between the club and my own I use 5 of them every single week (mixed of old and new).

The first run of Z4000's had a serial number that startes with 0398 (March 1998).  The Z4000 was updated and the second batch was 1198 (November 1998). The only notable changes that I can recognize is a firmware update (the newer z4k will display 0124 on startup and the older will display 0123), the addition of handle tension adjustments on the bottom of the transformer, and output rating of the track outputs was increase from 165 VA to 180 VA.

Since the November 1998 I don't know of any changes made until this latest run which required a redesign.

My dad has a first run Z4000 which he bought new when it first came out. Still works great today and running strong after 24 years of use.

My first release Z4000 still running strong no repairs

Anybody in L.I. area have a Z-4000 for sale at a reasonable price?

I`m a member of TMB club ( Train Masters of Babylon) out on L.I. New York ( I live in the Northport area 11768)

Let me know if someone can help me start off in this hobby on the right foot!- Thanks!!!-Sal

nice to see original thinking= make your own transformer.

anybody know where the mth z4000 are made, one of my thai factory worker friend had some mth work in her country.

currently playing with windings lionel zw to get it working on 240v

I have serial number 0398 XXXXX, the original run, and never had a problem. It is still in active use along with a 70-year-old ZW that has only been repaired once.

I personally would not buy a used transformer unless a) you completely trusted the seller, OR b) got a return warranty, OR c) tested the transformer under load yourself before purchase, OR d) you like to fix stuff.

I have a first generation and still working. However, I haven't used it a lot.

@England dave posted:

nice to see original thinking= make your own transformer.

anybody know where the mth z4000 are made, one of my thai factory worker friend had some mth work in her country.

currently playing with windings lionel zw to get it working on 240v

Wouldn’t be easier to insert a 1:2 transformer in the power line. 500 watts on the bay for $40 US.

I made my own 500 watt transformer using a commercial grade transformer and a variac. Total cost about 60 bucks.

Pete

I have one Z4000 from 1998.  

I picked up my pre-ordered Z4000 today at Chicagoland Hobby.

They had a few extra, so I also picked up another one.  

@TRAINMANTIM & @harry’s Trains tested the transformers to ensure proper performance.  

As for the price increase, it reminds me why I became an O-gauge model railroader:

I wanted an affordable hobby where I could save lots of money !!!

CB&Q Bill

🚂😂🚅😅🚅😆💰