My 1940’s Military War Train

Erik C Lindgren posted:

What have I been up too lately? Lots of things, and no I have not stopped building.

 

Most of my projects come up from a desire to recreate photos or advertising or some other record of a subject that intrigues me. In this case the Department of Defense train loads and War Time push for Victory during the golden era of railroads, World War Two.

 

 

During this same time period many of my favorite trains favorites based on design and style were intermingling with these amazing flat car loads of artillery, tanks, guns, crates, Jeeps, trucks, bulldozers, and many many more fun things.

I’ll take a look at what I did to make some photos of my favorite trains and war trains.. I had to build a lot of 1/48 scale Tamyia, Aurora, and Bandai kits! 2 years as a matter of fact, and a small fortune many of these kits are $20-$75 a piece. To add the monotony of building the same fine scale kit over and over and over and over.. you get the idea. In the next few posts I will share some of my working progress and what I did to get these things where I like them to be so they would photo as authentically as possible.

I’m not an expert at anything and limited to what knowledge I find in books and online, talking with folks that may have some insight Into the subject. But whenever possible I used the RPCYC, FRA standards manuals, historical societies, clubs, and other similar sources for research. In this case I had a lot available to me for the artillery as military scale modeling is a huge community far reaching and way larger than model railroading. However it’s good to note these military modelers don’t have a whole lot on trains and loadings, it was an unexpected roadblock not finding as much as I originally thought I would on military movements on rail in World War Two.

 

Like it or not thanks for looking I hope I didn’t waste your time. So far I’ve reached a train that is currently too long and too heavy at nearly 40 cars of heavy artillery and transport vehicles by order of the Department of Defense approximate date winter 1943. Whey that date? I like the cast Sherman tanks and I also was limited too what I had available for kits so I chose carefully with some of the very earliest welded tanks and most of them cast, Long Tom guns are also 1942-1943 variations.

You certainly did not waste our time Erik.

Informative post with great pics and ideas. Much thanks for sharing.

My model date is 1 October, 1940.  When this subject comes up, l wonder what was on the rails in military hardware prior to that date....and Pearl Harbor.  I think that the U.S. was sending materiel overseas even before Poland was invaded in 1939, but?..what and to what extent, and what would have been seen on railcars prior to 1941?  You have discovered that military modelers are not informed on that aspect..but wasn't Marx making "Army" trains in the late '30's?  I am only a little above idly curious as l would only be wanting a couple of these cars, as authentic to the period.

Great post definitely worth the time to follow this post. Looking forward to many updates 

Very nice, especially the "special effects" of the steam locomotive powered trains. That said, I am a bit curious about that big rubber-tired artillery piece. Having been assigned to the Headquarters, Division Artillery, 2nd Armored Division (1965-1966), I can't recall ever seeing an artillery piece that large from the WWII era. It looks to be about an 8" Howitzer, which I don't believe the U.S. Army had during WWII.

Thus, please describe just what that model depicts.

Thanks. 

Erik,  Great modeling and effort for authenticity.  Yes, the acquisition of correct models and the monetary outlay can be a little daunting to some.  I have been collecting models for years, some die-cast and many yet to be assembled, painted, etc.  When finally finished, I will have several separate consists, each comprised of different loads and purpose, not all of same era.

Excellent endeavor and results with purpose.

Jesse   TCA 

Hot Water posted:

Very nice, especially the "special effects" of the steam locomotive powered trains. That said, I am a bit curious about that big rubber-tired artillery piece. Having been assigned to the Headquarters, Division Artillery, 2nd Armored Division (1965-1966), I can't recall ever seeing an artillery piece that large from the WWII era. It looks to be about an 8" Howitzer, which I don't believe the U.S. Army had during WWII.

Thus, please describe just what that model depicts.

Thanks. 

If you are talking about this image:

Its a 155 mm "Long Tom" gun.   Reading Erik's entire post followed with a modicum of online searching gives a wealth of information.   

https://olive-drab.com/idphoto...photos_m2longtom.php

They were used heavily during WWII.  "The M2 (Long Tom) was the backbone of heavy artillery with thousands serving in both Europe and Pacific Theaters of Operation."  I would think these would be hard to miss in real life.   In the above link you can even see a photo of one arriving by rail at Hampton Roads Port  VA, 6 August 1943.  

But on to far more important things:  FANTASTIC MODELING AND PHOTOGRAPHY ERIK!  I have missed your posts

Stellar Erik, very realistic!

John

Eric: I am in the process of gathering/collecting WWII models to build such a train. Currently I have about a dozen and more coming. You did a great job Thank You for posting this thread. 

texastrain posted:

Erik,  Great modeling and effort for authenticity.  Yes, the acquisition of correct models and the monetary outlay can be a little daunting to some.  I have been collecting models for years, some die-cast and many yet to be assembled, painted, etc.  When finally finished, I will have several separate consists, each comprised of different loads and purpose, not all of same era.

Excellent endeavor and results with purpose.

Jesse   TCA 

OK, now THAT looks like a 155MM "long Tom", which is a longer and smaller diameter tube than the howitzer show in Eric's photos.

I did 3 versions of the Long Tom and plan another. 

John Sethian posted:

Hot Water posted:

Very nice, especially the "special effects" of the steam locomotive powered trains. That said, I am a bit curious about that big rubber-tired artillery piece. Having been assigned to the Headquarters, Division Artillery, 2nd Armored Division (1965-1966), I can't recall ever seeing an artillery piece that large from the WWII era. It looks to be about an 8" Howitzer, which I don't believe the U.S. Army had during WWII.

Thus, please describe just what that model depicts.

Thanks. 

If you are talking about this image:

Its a 155 mm "Long Tom" gun.   Reading Erik's entire post followed with a modicum of online searching gives a wealth of information.   

https://olive-drab.com/idphoto...photos_m2longtom.php

They were used heavily during WWII.  "The M2 (Long Tom) was the backbone of heavy artillery with thousands serving in both Europe and Pacific Theaters of Operation."  I would think these would be hard to miss in real life.   In the above link you can even see a photo of one arriving by rail at Hampton Roads Port  VA, 6 August 1943.  

But on to far more important things:  FANTASTIC MODELING AND PHOTOGRAPHY ERIK!  I have missed your posts

 

 

Well sorry but, that model sure doesn't look like the long tubed "Long Tom", towed howitzer, from WWII. The tube is larger in diameter, and shorter than the REAL "Long Tom" 155MM howitzer. Also, there were a LOT of self-propelled 155MM howitzers used in WWII, which we still had in large amounts in the 2nd Armored Division, Artillery in 1965/1966 (all the 8" pieces were the new self propelled design). 

Excellent modeling at any rate.

Outstanding work!

-Greg

Erik,

Sure enjoyed your work and photos.

Outstanding work.....great information here.....thank you!

Peter

Erik, I'll echo many others: superb work, great research and photography.

25 years ago I was stationed in Tidewater Virginia and belonged to the O Scale/Gauge Modular Club with a beautiful layout set up in Virginia Beach's Pembroke Mall. About once a month I would run what I called the VE train, a series of French-made Solido Models (1/43) mounted/chocked/chained on heavily weathered Weaver 50 ft flats. They were not nearly as detailed as the fine work depicted here, but the train was the most popular I ran. Lots of folks from Fort Monroe would come over just to see this train run when word got out that it was on the rails. It was a heavy train (Solido models were all metal) and took MTH A-B-A Fs (4 motors) or a SP cab forward to pull it...slowly.

I still have the train and run it periodically on CONUS Lines (now with DCS I run six Fs or doubleheaded cab forwards reflecting my home layout's 2% grades) but after two trips to Austria, Italy and Germany I am building what in Germany is called an "Observer's Layout." (Look at Tony Koester's Proto 48 layout in the current Model Railroader. In Germany that is an "Observer's Layout." Where Tony has holding tracks, I bend the main line around for another vignette on the other side. I like the continuous running option).

Now retired, it's a lot of fun to try something totally different. I'm modeling current day, what I've seen. Fortunately Roco makes a lot of current electrics and freight and passenger cars for Era VI, which we're in now.

About six months ago I finished a new biography of Erwin Rommel. I learned that after he returned to Europe for health reasons as the Americans and British closed in on the Afrika Corps in Tunisia, after a period of recuperation at a deluxe hotel in Semmering (one of my favorite locations to photograph heavy electrics on Alpine grades on Austria's Semmeringbahn), Hitler place him in charge of getting German forces, troops and particularly armor, to Italy as Mussolini's government collapsed. Turns out the Netherlands firm Artitec makes superb models of Panzer army equipment in both Western and Eastern Front camoflauge schemes, all told about a dozen different types of Wehrmacht Panzers, half-tracks, artillery, trucks, etc. They are all accurately scaled to 1/87 and beautifully painted/weathered. Artitec also makes a series of four axle and six axle flatcars accurately lettered for the war period, or Era II (1919-1945) as the European model railroad community refers to it.

Not suggesting leaving O for HO, but it's fun to go in a completely new direction, and the European manufacturers have a broad array of beautifully detailed product. Just Google Reynauld's Euro Imports (Chicago) to get an idea of what's out there.

Incidentally, Rommel named the movement of German manpower and equipment into Italy over the Alps/Brenner Pass on the Austria/Italy border "Operation Alaric." Alaric was the Visigoth king that sacked Rome in 410 AD signifying the beginning of the "fall" of the Western Roman Empire. German humor...

 Some great info. . Along with some fantastic modeling.

Erik, your photography really accentuates your modeling. Fantastic.

We have a club member that, like you, has been fascinated with a military load consist.

Stunning. Simply stunning. Geez, and I thought my WW2 flatcar load modeling was good. 

Stunning modelwork and photography! Brings the war years to life in 3 dimensional style.

Just to complicate the artillery identification of the big gun on the flatcar. It looks like a towed 8” gun; largest in the WWII US arsenal. And yes; they had them in Europe by late 1944. They fired in support of ground units during the Battle of the Bulge from the Elsenborn Ridge. (Source: A Time for Trumpets, by Charles McDonald, an infantry company commander who was there and later official Army historian). Outstanding book by the way. The ground pounders really loved the sound of those 155’s and eight-inchers coming in support.

Would love be to see this train in action in a dedicated video on the High Plains Route!

Perfect showcase for your Key cab forward? 

Just reserved Time For Trumpets at the library.  Thank you for the suggestion.  Halfway through a book now, but that one is next.

Cheers,       W1

The US Army most certainly did have the 8" howitzer during WW II on the same carriage as the 155mm M1 "Long Tom."

Yes, well, sometimes when the haughtiness supersedes graciousness, it gets a little old.  Finding something in everything is not something I would want to do, but to each his own.  Fire away!  And may the targets be weary.

Just thought I would add. Early WW2 and even before, there were many times shortages of flat cars to transport tanks, trucks, etc. across country to ports. So many times drop end gondolas were used. Many times in films it can be seen that M3 Lee's would be so transported as well as half tracks, etc. Drop end gondolas are and were used in moving military equipment throughout the war.

I see that Atlantis Models will be releasing a 1:48, 8" towed howitzer on the Long Tom carriage soon.

https://www.atlantis-models.co...rgun148atlantis.aspx.

Outstanding craftsmanship....i am even enamored with the wood treatment on the flat cats....to Rick Wright, I'll yell ya, i spent a few nights at that hotel in Semmering. Boy, the stories about WWII artifacts and such I came across circa 1967 - 1969 Austria....

Some further notes about what I did. I’m not much of a writer so I will caption pictures. 

those cool back packs of spare parts, tools, etc that were shipped on the tanks. Buying 1/50 or 1/43 die cast tanks was out of the question they must be fine scale kits with the plentiful nature of 1/48 military modeling there is no excuse for close enough on this project . 

paint is still wet... upgraded kits using third party etchings and super detail upgrades  see your local military modeling hobby shop like Colpar Hobbies in Denver. It’s a treat! Scale tools! 

loading is pretty straight forward, yes I’ve cabled some chained others and in some photos I was finished yet  

backpack? Storage of various extra parts tools a common sight it appears I found many photos with this

some ingenuity and patience I made several styles, this one to simulate a different coverings 

neat little detail on this cast Sherman 

now to build 5-6 

balsa for the crate, paper I painted then cut into strips to make the straps. Painted plastic wrapped around blocks for the load. This is a Tamyia kit with photo etched upgrade details. 

josef posted:

Just thought I would add. Early WW2 and even before, there were many times shortages of flat cars to transport tanks, trucks, etc. across country to ports. So many times drop end gondolas were used. Many times in films it can be seen that M3 Lee's would be so transported as well as half tracks, etc. Drop end gondolas are and were used in moving military equipment throughout the war.

most excellent idea I will plan on it thank you Josef

This thread has got my wheels turning...A way to combine two different modeling loves; railroads and armor models!!

My railroad is placed in the late 1960’s; so think Penn Central Eastern US. Would have to create a “back story” for WWII equipment showing up at a depot in that era. Maybe the last M4A3E8’s coming back from the Reserve for replacement and disposal...

Hats off to you Eric for amazing imagination, superb photography and great modeling. I think this combination creates an entirely new art form! Let’s see some more!!!

I remember the trains heading to East Coast ports carrying tanks, etc on their way to Iraq as I travelled in the East.

impressive

Dick

Heading to port, flying over one of the many arroyos a priority Santa Fe war train rattles the timbers as it blasts past the camera on a cold morning in December 1942. 

Erik, do you follow Paul Budzik? His  YouTube content is some of the most comprehensive out there. He focuses on airplanes, but I’ve seen him build military equipment as well! 

Erik C Lindgren posted:

Heading to port, flying over one of the many arroyos a priority Santa Fe war train rattles the timbers as it blasts past the camera on a cold morning in December 1942. 

Bloody well done!

First off, absolutely stunning work as always Eric.  You are an inspiration for modelers in all scales. 

Rick Wright wrote:

"Not suggesting leaving O for HO, but it's fun to go in a completely new direction, and the European manufacturers have a broad array of beautifully detailed product. Just Google Reynauld's Euro Imports (Chicago) to get an idea of what's out there."

Thanks Rick, just what I needed, and excuse to buy stuff.  

I had been meaning to purchase three Artitek Massey Ferguson combines (kits, unpainted) for an open top load, but had not gotten around to doing that, until I read your post.  I went there to check out the armor, with no intention of purchasing, and then I saw already painted models of two of my favorite tanks, the German Panther and Jadgpanther.  Ordered on Saturday last week, had the Panther and combine kits by Tuesday (the Jadgpanther is on back order). 

Three small details that needed to be changed / removed to replicate a load in transit, otherwise this thing pretty much "fell out of the box" onto the flat car.  With the aid of some Northeastern scale lumber, some leftover lumber from a Campbell kit (for the track chocks), 0.019" wire, and the 1960 "Rules Governing the Loading of Department of Defense Material On Open Top Cars", I threw this together in about three hours (the Red Caboose flat car was already weathered). 

This load will be making a westward move during my January 3, 2020 Rail Group Chicago operating session.  This captured tank is moving from the Aberdeen Proving Grounds in Maryland across the Spokane Southern Railroad to permanent display at Fort Lewis Military Museum outside of Tacoma Washington. 

Felt REALLY good to do an open top load.  Had not done any since two years ago.  Have a couple more to knock out over the holidays. 

Regards,

Jerry Zeman

Wow.  That is really really amazing.  I have purchased several MTH military trains, perhaps enough for two train fulls but this is soooooooo impressive.  Great job.

John

Fantastic job Erik,

I like how you removed the turret mounted machine guns on the armor, great attention to detail and fantastic modeling.