My best train day ever! York & 611 up close and personal.

An interesting and different video.  Thanks for posting.

Thanks for posting.  While I visited Strasburg on Friday, I was talking with a few other rail fans as we took pictures of 611 at rest.  The conversation got to the transfer of 611 from Virginia.  One fellow remarked at how CSX, I think he said, would not allow 611 on it's tracks.  Not sure If I understood him correctly.  Anyway, it has to do with the pounding of the rails by the locomotive.  The side rods exert a pounding effect as they make each cycle.  My response was, what about the counterbalanced wheels.  Apparently, they only have a minimal effect.  

As I was watching your video, the thought arose, today's track and roadbed seem more robust than it did when steam was king.  With welded rail and concrete ties, it seems to me that the track should be able to take more punishment than it did when rails were joined with fishplates and held down with spikes instead of the more modern apparatus used today.  

Any thoughts ?

I’m sure Hot Water and others know for sure, but I think the “rail pounding” effect of steam locomotives was pretty well dealt with by the later steam era- and 611 is exceptionally well balanced.  That’s how they achieved high speeds with 70” drivers.

mlavender480 posted:

I’m sure Hot Water and others know for sure, but I think the “rail pounding” effect of steam locomotives was pretty well dealt with by the later steam era- and 611 is exceptionally well balanced.  That’s how they achieved high speeds with 70” drivers.

Correct. The so-called "rail pounding" was pretty much eliminated due to the ever increasing designs of modern steam locomotives, beginning in the early to mid 1930s. The evolution of "dynamic augment" with advanced counter balancing pretty well solved the "pounding" issues.

As a side note, during the extensive testing of C&O 614 (renumbered 614T for the tests) on the Chessie System, between Huntington, WVa. and Hinton, WVa., the AAR had a section (about 50 to 100 feet) of track fully instrumented. Surprisingly, the day after day operations of 614T handling empty and loaded coal trains over the instrumented section, data revealed that the 614T transmitted LESS forces than the various diesel electric locomotives of various types over the same instrumented section!

mlavender480 posted:

I’m sure Hot Water and others know for sure, but I think the “rail pounding” effect of steam locomotives was pretty well dealt with by the later steam era- and 611 is exceptionally well balanced.  That’s how they achieved high speeds with 70” drivers.

One would think the locomotive would tear itself apart if not perfectly balanced. Not to mention the rough ride experienced by the engineer and fireman.

I'm suprised Rich Melvin can still walk after running 765 at 70 mph.

Maybe it has more to do with concern over the interference of the daily freight schedule.

RickO posted:

mlavender480 posted:

I’m sure Hot Water and others know for sure, but I think the “rail pounding” effect of steam locomotives was pretty well dealt with by the later steam era- and 611 is exceptionally well balanced.  That’s how they achieved high speeds with 70” drivers.

One would think the locomotive would tear itself apart if not perfectly balanced. Not to mention the rough ride experienced by the engineer and fireman.

I'm suprised Rich Melvin can still walk after running 765 at 70 mph.

You ARE kidding, right?

Maybe it has more to do with concern over the interference of the daily freight schedule.

What sort of "interference"? Only on the Norfolk Southern are steam locomotives speed limited to 40 MPH.

Hot Water posted:

RickO posted:

One would think the locomotive would tear itself apart if not perfectly balanced. Not to mention the rough ride experienced by the engineer and fireman.

I'm suprised Rich Melvin can still walk after running 765 at 70 mph.

You ARE kidding, right?

 Regarding Rich Melvin yes. Are the locomotives not well balanced?  

Maybe it has more to do with concern over the interference of the daily freight schedule.

What sort of "interference"? Only on the Norfolk Southern are steam locomotives speed limited to 40 MPH.

Merely implying that whatever excursion is an added "variable" to the railroads operations.

I know this has been covered before, please "re enlighten" us regarding CSX's disdain for steam locomotives Hotwater.

 

RickO posted:

Hot Water posted:

RickO posted:

One would think the locomotive would tear itself apart if not perfectly balanced. Not to mention the rough ride experienced by the engineer and fireman.

I'm suprised Rich Melvin can still walk after running 765 at 70 mph.

You ARE kidding, right?

 Regarding Rich Melvin yes. Are the locomotives not well balanced?  

I'm curious as to why you think NKP 765 is NOT "well balanced".

Maybe it has more to do with concern over the interference of the daily freight schedule.

What sort of "interference"? Only on the Norfolk Southern are steam locomotives speed limited to 40 MPH.

Merely implying that whatever excursion is an added "variable" to the railroads operations.

I know this has been covered before, please "re enlighten" us regarding CSX's disdain for steam locomotives Hotwater.

CSX has slowly changed their stance on steam locomotives. Previous it was all about liability and safety, i.e. way too many people coming to track side to watch the steam locomotive, no mater whether steamed up or dead-in-tow.

 

 

RickO posted:

mlavender480 posted:

I’m sure Hot Water and others know for sure, but I think the “rail pounding” effect of steam locomotives was pretty well dealt with by the later steam era- and 611 is exceptionally well balanced.  That’s how they achieved high speeds with 70” drivers.

One would think the locomotive would tear itself apart if not perfectly balanced. Not to mention the rough ride experienced by the engineer and fireman.

I'm suprised Rich Melvin can still walk after running 765 at 70 mph.

Maybe it has more to do with concern over the interference of the daily freight schedule.

Any particular reason why you felt the need to respond sarcastically?  I was responding to an earlier post in which it was implied that steam locomotives “pounded” the track, which simply isn’t true.  

Hot Water posted:

mlavender480 posted:

I’m sure Hot Water and others know for sure, but I think the “rail pounding” effect of steam locomotives was pretty well dealt with by the later steam era- and 611 is exceptionally well balanced.  That’s how they achieved high speeds with 70” drivers.

Correct. The so-called "rail pounding" was pretty much eliminated due to the ever increasing designs of modern steam locomotives, beginning in the early to mid 1930s. The evolution of "dynamic augment" with advanced counter balancing pretty well solved the "pounding" issues.

As a side note, during the extensive testing of C&O 614 (renumbered 614T for the tests) on the Chessie System, between Huntington, WVa. and Hinton, WVa., the AAR had a section (about 50 to 100 feet) of track fully instrumented. Surprisingly, the day after day operations of 614T handling empty and loaded coal trains over the instrumented section, data revealed that the 614T transmitted LESS forces than the various diesel electric locomotives of various types over the same instrumented section!

The other thing that reduced the dynamic augment was the use of light weight rods (aluminum as you can see on 611).

Jim Waterman posted:

Hot Water posted:

mlavender480 posted:

I’m sure Hot Water and others know for sure, but I think the “rail pounding” effect of steam locomotives was pretty well dealt with by the later steam era- and 611 is exceptionally well balanced.  That’s how they achieved high speeds with 70” drivers.

Correct. The so-called "rail pounding" was pretty much eliminated due to the ever increasing designs of modern steam locomotives, beginning in the early to mid 1930s. The evolution of "dynamic augment" with advanced counter balancing pretty well solved the "pounding" issues.

As a side note, during the extensive testing of C&O 614 (renumbered 614T for the tests) on the Chessie System, between Huntington, WVa. and Hinton, WVa., the AAR had a section (about 50 to 100 feet) of track fully instrumented. Surprisingly, the day after day operations of 614T handling empty and loaded coal trains over the instrumented section, data revealed that the 614T transmitted LESS forces than the various diesel electric locomotives of various types over the same instrumented section!

The other thing that reduced the dynamic augment was the use of light weight rods (aluminum as you can see on 611).

 

Sorry sir, but NO steam locomotives used "aluminum" for ANY of the of the running gear machinery! Those highly polished rods on N&W 611 are made of light weight steel alloy. Anything made of aluminum around  steam locomotive machinery would have been dissolved pretty quickly from the various caustic cleaning chemicals used, back in the "bad old days".

Jim Waterman posted:

The other thing that reduced the dynamic augment was the use of light weight rods (aluminum as you can see on 611). 

Aluminum side rods? Surely you jest!