My dream/nightmare layout... July Update 7/31/19 Big Boy month!

You can have just as much fun with a much, much smaller layout.  If money is not a concern, you can also have a custom made layout.

 

Congratulations on overcoming your health issues.

 

Earl

Elliot,

 

You can bet if I ever get to the Twin Cities I'll be giving you a call.  I'd love to run some trains with you!

Great to see you're in good heath

 

As for the layout it is really beautiful, I would do what Earl said above. Look into a company that will come in and help you finish this beautiful layout.

 

Thanks, Alex

Thanks Earl. I don't know if I could bring myself to downsize this thing at this stage of the game. I know I couldn't tear it down. I think I would rather move forward slowly.

 

I had always envisioned hosting operating sessions. I've stockpiled 7 cab-1's to that end. I need to get just a little further along to sell the concept to some of the local guys. I'm not sure how much of my enjoyment of this hobby comes from running trains vs layout construction, anymore. These last 6 years have messed with my head, and I'm still trying to straighten that out.

 

As for my health, I'm not exactly out of the woods. I've been diabetic for 20 years and it's starting to catch up with me.

Good news about your health!!

 

Wow! That's gonna be some layout!Keep posting updates!

 

Mike R

Charlie, I'm sure you'd recognize some of those trains.

 

Alex, I'm not aware of any "MR guns" for hire locally, but there is a guy I used to know that does electrical work. Haven't seen him in a long time, but I am giving serious thought to looking him up.

Wow  Cool layout Elliot  I was just in Minneapolis a couple of months ago  Wish I saw this first

Wow Elliot, I have always dreamed of having that much room for a layout  of that size(and the time and FUNDS, to support it). Have you asked around to see if there are other modelers in your area that might be interested in helping out? If I can't have a layout of that size myself, having a good friend that does would be the next best thing. I would love to help with a layout like that, I wish you were out here in Forest Grove, OR.

 

 There maybe others who would be willing to help build it, for the chance to have something like that to have the opportunity to operate it. It would be similar to a club, and admittedly, there could be some disagreements, but three railers do tend to be more relaxed about details, so it likely wouldn't be to much of a problem. It would be worth looking into, I would sure welcome a chance like that.

 

Doug

Thanks Mike, that's the plan for this topic, to share my progress with all of you. I see that I forgot to post a picture of the helix...


Blueline, I'm sorry I didn't start this topic months ago. I hope you're able to get back this way soon.

 

Doug, I have rejoined the NMRA, and am going to try to get some of them involved. They are the operators and builders. I used to be in TCA, but most of those guys don't build layouts. There was a time when I got paid to do layout work for others.

 

I wish a lot of the people on the forum lived closer. This thing would be done in no time and we would all have fun!

Elliot, I will need to get my buddys from MN Free-mo to get in touch wit you, many of them have started a new club in the twin cities building a large permenate  ho layout, I think they need to slow down a bit, in one weekend they had all of the benchwork built, next weekend all of the main line spline in, the following weekeng adjustine elevation of said spline and now they are adding branch line spline

 

for those on facebook

https://www.facebook.com/#!/pa...Club/190419750986184

 

their website

 

http://www.nmmrc.org

 

 

Frankly, it's a lot more than I would ever want to deal with. A project that size could monopolize your entire life. But I wish you all the best with it. Hopefully you have a substantial team of friends to help work on it!

Wow Mike, and I thought I had a "spaghetti bowl" going. I see that they are about 45 minutes away from me. Well worth the trip though if there's even a slim chance of recruiting one or two. Getting out and networking may be just what my project needs.

I think you will have more enjoyment running and operating , life is short and when you get older , your health becomes an issue , get'er done ! If you got the $$$ hire a few competent fellow railroaders to help , they all will like the extra money and they are doing something they enjoy. Just make sure they understand this is work for $$$

 

I would base it on , I want to enjoy while I can , when you get sick and can't do anything , nothing matters. No fun when people come and see a half done layout , they all will ask , when will it be done . You got most of the tough stuff done .

Ace, I'm sure that my project is a lot more than most people would want to deal with, but I'm a little different.

 

Since I posted this topic a few hours ago, I've been thinking about my life with trains. And it occurred to me, that I don't just love trains for myself, I love to share them with others.

 

From the earliest age I can remember, people were fascinated with what I had created. I think my parents hoped it would go away, that I would outgrow it, but I didn't. 20 years ago it reached its pinnacle in the form a business by the name of enterTRAINment at Mall of America. Many here have heard of it, some may even have visited it. It only lasted a little over a year, and then it was gone.

 

That layout was more for public consumption, more to the toy end of the spectrum with lots of action. This layout is more of a personal vision, a true model railroad, but it still needs to be shared. It needs to take all the materials that were salvaged from the mall, and recycle them into something new and wonderful.

 

As far as my life goes, trains really are my life. My kids are in college (they don't talk to me anyway). I attribute that to my ex, and not to the trains. My parents are both deceased. My sister lives just down the road, running 24/7 with her kids. The one has little interest in trains, the other even less.

 

Trains are how I pass my time. Just getting all this out feels like therapy. It feels good.

Elliot, that is a BIG project, one that would be overwhelming to many, probably myself included, but I would sure like to have the space, time and resources to try something like that some day.

 

 I Really understand about sharing the trains with others. I would have to sit down and think about it to count how many sets that I have put together out of my collection for various, Family, Friends and even a customer, who was as much a friend as she was a customer for the company that I work for, we had many Paralells in our lives at the time, and offered each other much moral support during some trying times for each of us. Sadly, less than a year after she met and married a Wonderful man, we lost her.

 

 I had given my Wife and her kids a set I put together a couple years before we married, and she told me when her Father saw the trains, his first comment was "Fire em' up". Well before the first Christmas after we were married, I put together a set for my Father-in-Law, the look on his face was PRICELESS when he opened that box. He was 74 years old, and had never had electric trains as a kid. He grew up poor, and only had a wind up set, that he had to share with five brothers.

 

 He has gotten some extras for Birthdays and Christmases since, this year I gave him a Lionel Pacfic to go with his passenger cars (the original set was freight headed up by a Mikado jr) he runs those trains for hours a day each Christmas season.

 

 One of my life goals, is for there to be no Christmas Tree without a train under it, and I am doing my best to fullfill that goal.

 

Doug

Good luck on your health and your layout. I remember seeing enTRAINment on the TM videos.

You can't do anything small can you?

Looks like your doing pretty good as far as I can see. Remember all good things take time. Keep us posted with the progress even if its slow.

Elliot.....what can I say....WOW!!!  I do understand your philosophy concerning the sharing aspect of the hobby.  I too feel the same way.  My layout is only about 1/3 smaller than yours and I can tell you that it is a job!!  When one is in their 30's or 40's it seems there is no end to the amount of energy one has but as age sneaks up on us, that energy is harder to find!!  If you have decided that a smaller layout is not an option and you have the financial resources, then I would seriously consider hiring someone to get it finished before your health keeps you from enjoying and sharing it with others.  If I lived up in your area I would be there helping you for sure!!  AND...I do remember enterTRAINment.....had no idea until now that you were the guy!!

 

Alan

Congrats on kicking out the cancer!  

 

As for your layout, and mine too, sometimes I just like to go sit back and run a train around for a while.  Eventually I get some inspiration and begin to work on a section or little project.  If you stand back and look at the overall.... it can be overwhelming!  But if you just concentrate on a little part, or section, then it becomes mentally manageable!  

One of the things I am grateful for is that, seven years ago, I did not go with an alternate plan to reroof part of my house so that my trainroom (28 x 15) could be 40 x 20).  I had an ambitious plan that included nearly twice as much benchwork and track as I have now, a helix, a turntable and yard - two towns -- the works.  Now, seven years later, I find my smaller layout provides all the trains, movement, and challenge I need, and that I can barely keep up: it still is not finished, and I spent a lot of time on maintenance of the portions that are.  It is a big as I need, and more important, as bid as I can handle.

I try to enjoy the (budding) layout a little at a time. Upon reflection, I may be like you in that having others enjoy the trains are a larger factor than I had thought. I also have had to re-vision what I am doing; dropping, for instance, from 16-20 car trains to 6 car trains, and a more modular style layout. I understand that refocusing in that way would be silly for you, in light of what you have already completed.

Mike

Elliot, thanks so much for sharing your story... and congratulations on winning your battle with cancer!!!

 

Regarding your enormous layout... all I can say is WOW!!!  We don't normally see huge double-decker O-Gauge layouts built with the works.  Those types of layouts are more commonly done in HO or N scale due to the HUGE amount of real estate that would be required to pull off something equivalent in O-Scale.

 

Given that you've invested so much time, energy and resources thus far, I'd definitely suggest bringing in more resources to help you if you feel your energy-level would be stressed now.  It would be very difficult to scale back at this stage of the game.

 

I have a few more thoughts/comments to add, but I'll do that later as I'm heading out the door now.

 

All the best, Elliot.

 

David

Elliot,

How much distance is the top level above the lower level?

Wow. I can't believe you will not find some folks around your place who will not be happy to help you, this is a club size layout. 

Hopefully you can get some help either volunteer, contracted professionals or both. That is a massive job. 

Good Luck.

Big Boy,

  Elliot when God gives you lemons you make lemonade, glad to hear you are felling better, I look at the layout as something to keep your mind on, and keep busy so as not to dwell on the past.   Drive on with the layout and have fun doing it.

PCRR/Dave

Elliot, that layout is quite an undertaking.  A beautiful plan.  I hope you get it accomplished.

.....

Dennis

If your goal is to run trains with your buddies, you might consider just joining or starting a club.

 

Earl

Elliott:

 

You have won your biggest battle and hopefully that is behind you now. This is your dream layout and I encourage you to finish it. Doing anything less will eventually come back to haunt you.

 

I will e-mail you with the name of a Forum member who does layout work. He is a master electrician as well. His fees are very reasonable.

 

Keep your positive attitude and you will accomplish your goals. Happy New Year to you.

Wow!!! Thanks all for your well wishes and suggestions. I was doing OK at responding to individual posts in the wee hours of the morning when the posts were few. I went to bed at 4AM and you all woke up, while I slept til noon.

 

Part of my problem has been, since the cancer diagnosis, I socially curled up unto a ball, breaking off contact with everyone who wasn't family. For the few years before the cancer, I was very active on the "other forum", but dropped out suddenly when I got that news. It feels good to be back talking about trains and interacting with people.

 

Many of you have suggested that I find people to help with the layout. I think that will be the best course of action. There is a local NMRA meeting coming up. It's probably time to drag out the track plan and the photo album, and see if anyone bites.

Elliot,

 

I'd buy a six pack or two and be over in a heartbeat to help/enjoy such an amazing layout as yours if I wasn't so far away!  I'm only 38 and still have some energy left in me!

It is actually 30" top of benchwork to top of benchwork. Subtract the width of the 1x4 upper deck framing and that leaves 26 1/2" of usable space.

 

The lower level is 42" off the floor and the upper is 72". I have also raised the floor 12" in most of the aisles, so the upper is at 60" relative.

Bingo! I was about your age when I thought this monster up. I'm 51 now. We forget to factor in the aging process.

51, your still a pup.

Chronologically yes, but with the diabetes and being over weight, it feels like 71. Actually, working on the layout keeps me off the couch and away from the fridge. Both good things.

Email sent.

There is a general consensus within the model RR'ing community that having a massive layout will bring and overwhelming sense of satisfaction to the hobby, when really it has an adverse affect. At 43 I have a 15' x 48' layout that will likely never be completed for various reasons. It takes many of us into our 40's before we reach some level of financial stability and acquire a space suitable for a layout. By then, many of us have a wife and children which require the first block of our time, followed by whatever else we are involved in, leaving little time for any layout much less a 2k sq ft layout. 

  

Suddenly the 12 x 12 room in a remote corner of the house the wifey granted you doesn't look so bad. It will likely cost less and be more practical to finish and you can dedicate more time to detail and still see the possible completion of a smaller layout.

 

Maybe you should consider a smaller build in another part of the house where it will be more manageable and easier to complete. Leave a couple of large loops in the basement to get the highballing out of your system on occasion.

 

We found ourselves at York on more than one occasion engulfed in some of the highly detailed 4x8 or smaller vendor displays that seem to bring the same satisfaction as a massive unfinished layout. There is satisfaction in finishing and finishing well. Good luck in what ever you decide. 

I actually made some progress today on a couple of fronts. I spent a couple of hours doing actual construction on the layout. But perhaps more important, I've had a couple of offers of help as a direct result of this topic.

 

Big thanks to Mike Slater and CGWforever. 

 

Perhaps it's time for a New Years resolution (and I don't usually make them).

 

I hereby resolve to spend at least one hour per day (average) working on the layout, with an end goal of having all the benchwork completed as well as having all the track on the lower level laid and electrified.

 

Complete that and scaled down operating sessions could take place.

 

Happy New Year!

Completing a large layout is mind over matter. I started construction of my layout in 2006 and finished it in 2011 (although one continually tweaks it). For most of this time frame, I commuted over 1,000 miles and I made the most of the weekends I was at home. During this time frame I had a very busy work schedule that required some weekend travel to conduct training session across the USA and Canada.

 

Like Elliot, health issues can put a damper on the progress of a layout as large as his is. I was fortunate during my construction where I had one surgery that took me out of the game for about a month. The key for me was the fact that I was mission orientated and I was determined to finish this project.

There really is something to be said for the proper mindset. I lost it when I got the news. I'm working to get it back.

 

Earlier it was asked, with a project so large where do you start? That's like, How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time!

 

I took a "bite" today and finished the plywood deck for a 3 track storage yard. This yard wasn't in the original plan, and would have been a lot easier to do earlier on. I think the worst of it is over.

Wow, it has been a month, and a lot has happened.

First the bad news, which isn't really that bad, compared to what I've already been through. I went to the dermatologist a couple weeks ago for my annual skin check, and he decided to finally biopsy a spot on my back that he'd been watching for the last 6 years. It came back as another melanoma. So today, he carved out a larger chunk. Everyone involved feels that this far less serious than the previous episode, and that today's surgery will resolve the issue.

Back to trains!!!

My call for help, as it were, was  answered in the form of forum member CGWforever. This guy is a real go getter. In his four weekly visits this month, we have accomplished so much. But, it's not just what we get done when he comes over, it's the motivation he gives me to keep working between visits.

Here are some before and after pairs. Before is 12/31/12. After is 1/31/13.


















I don't have a good before for this shot, but all the black roadbed is new.



The really good news is I may have even more help coming next month!! Stay tuned.

 

As for my resolution of an hour per day average, I have surpassed that goal in spite of not working some days.

 

I want to get back down there now, but I have to wait a few days for my back to start healing.

That is some layout. I know you said it was 2000 sq. feet but I'm wondering about the dimensions. Length & width!!

Now that is cool!! Very nice- keep up the great work here- you will have a beautiful place to build some very long trains- keep us posted!! Nice pics too

Man'o'man, I wish you lived next door.

Wow my head is still spinning!  When is the open house!

Really fun work with him and keep things moving as much as we can! His layout did gave me the idea for my next new layout. Always enjoy work on his layout!

The main space is 39' x 46' but there's a 17' x 12' extension on the one corner. Only a small part of that extension will have layout on the upper deck. It is all one room, there never were any partitions.

 

Thanks guys!!

 

The open house is really whenever anyone wants to see it. Just contact me and set it up. At this time trains are not able to run due to construction mess. I'm guessing that within a few months at the current rate of progress, things will be much further along and cleaned up with even more of the layout operational. The goal is to be able host operating sessions.

Well, it's been a rather slow week on the railroad. I had to take it easy for a number of days because of the stitches in my back. I got some track secured Wednesday, but not as much as I would have liked.

Today things got kicked back into high gear, as CGWforever came over. We have established a comfortable division of labor, where I cut lumber and grab tools, while he assembles the pieces. Our afternoon was spent doing benchwork in one corner.

 Unfortunately I didn't have a lot of before pics for this area, but these first two are pretty close, and show some of today's progress. 

Here the backdrop support on the upper level was completed, the final braces supporting the cantilever upper deck were installed and the benchwork has been modified to reflect its curved profile.

 

Where the work lamp is hanging, there will be a wye on the lower level, and two tracks curving around to the left, something on the order of 072 and 080 perhaps slightly greater. 



Rather than add a leg, a scrap triangle of plywood, leftover from roadbed cutting, finds new life as a support gusset. Surprisingly strong! We've dubbed this "seat of the pants engineering".



Here's another example. I picked up those iron brackets many years ago at an auction when amusement park closed. They aren't bent to 90 degrees because their original purpose was to be used for park benches. This is how I work around that.



Next week expect to see more trackwork, and the start of the second helix. Stay tuned.

Hi Elliot. I met you briefly back in June 1993 when I visited your EnterTrainment. I had heard about your personal and health problems over the years and I am happy to see that you are starting to enjoy life again.

The pictures are great keep them coming. If I was in MN I would be helping you as well.

Thanks Clutch Guy. You were asking about the flat St Paul houses? They were saved and will be reused on this layout.






Tomorrow is going to be a fun day. Construction is going to begin on the second helix. This week I reached waaaay back to high school geometry, and drew on the concrete to get the dimensions for the 8' octagon that will form the foundation.



Helix foundation kit. Some assembly required!

Elliot,

 

Some great space you have there, and it looks like a really interesting layout.  

 

Thanks for sharing the progress, and the best part is you are making some and enjoying it!

 

Thanks Rich. CGWforever should be here in a few minutes, and we'll get that "kit" assembled.

WOW! Very ambitious.  You must have a lot of energy.

Thanks, I used to have a lot more. Now it helps to have help.

That's Patrick wielding the screw gun. 



The 8' octagon is complete.

That piece of electrical conduit goes from floor to ceiling and is the center for my compass.

Very busy day on the railroad today. Patrick came over and a bunch of benchwork got done.

 

The first section of the new hidden yard takes shape.

Frame installed, time to connect the pieces with a short bridge.



Heading up the helix! Half way around the first turn.



Instead of using 3/4" plywood, I use 2 layers of 3/8" plywood glued together to form a single continuous roadbed.




Let's see what I can get done before he comes over next week.

I can see the floor trusses, but this is in a basement of a house, and not

a City Hall, or school,  just looking at the wood, speaks to me about the framing

of a house ,  $$$$$$$ !

Yes Terry, this is my basement. The engineered joists that you are seeing span the full width of the house, just under 40 feet, with a center support beam held up by 3 columns which can be seen in various pictures if you look for them. The beam itself, along with the duct work, is already boxed in.

 

The rest of the lumber is the layout, and while it is expensive, some of it is over 35 years old. I've been buying it a little bit at a time for a long time. It is mostly 1x4's with some 2x4's and a bunch of 3/4" plywood. I'm actually almost done buying lumber, the bulk of the benchwork should be done by the end of the year.

Elliot,

I am yet to start my benchwork for my basement layout of approx. 13' x 10' and felt my little project was intimidating. RR Track Software crapped out and now I am trying to start planning all over again and am doing a great deal of re-thinking.

Thank you for providing pictures as your layout continue your work. I just turned 60 in Jan and take the train 2+ hours a day to and from my work, so little time for any work during the week and at times just rest the weekend to get ready for Monday!

I will now due to you, plan and schedule time to work on the layout re-design and then the benchwork. It will have to be small work and cost spread over time, but need to get my big arse in gear!

 

Thanks again! 

 

Keep up the Great Work!

Thanks Dennis, it makes me feel good to hear that people enjoying and even benefitting from my experience / insanity. 

 

Honestly, I could never get the hang of track planning software, and I tried 3 or 4 different ones. In the end, good old fashioned paper, pencil, compass and ruler served me best.

 

As with anything in life that we really want, we have to find or make time for it. Good luck and get crackin'.

Well, it's been just over 2 months since I started this topic, and a lot has been accomplished. With Patrick's weekly visits keeping me motivated, it is looking like all the track on the main level will be complete by June.

 

The helix should be done by the end of March. Here's a sequence of photos showing the construction. First shot 2/13/13, last 3/4/13.

Elliot, Coming along nicely! 

Thanks Charlie. You'll be happy to know that the Lionel auto racks just clear the support posts. The Big Boy wasn't as lucky.

Elliot

 

    Having kept up with your amazing posts since the beginning, you should realize how much more positive you sound. Making new friends is the best part of the hobby. Keep  it going. If you are ever in Chicago contact me and come and enjoy some time at our club.

 

Best

 

Ray Marion

Thanks Ray. In addition to the positive of meeting people, since I've been working on the layout again, my blood sugar has gone WAY down. There is a certain exercise factor involved with a layout this large. Back and forth, back and forth, back and forth.

 

My wife and I do get down to Chicago on a fairly regular basis. I'll let you know when we are planning a visit, I'd love to meet you and visit the club.

Elliot, Glad to see you are back in the traingame, welcome home !

Haven't talked to you(CTT) in what seems like forever.

Hi Doug. A comeback is a long process. I missed and forgot a lot in six years. It really does seem like forever. OGR is my new online home.

Glad to see you making a come back. What a space you have there to work with. The helix is sweeeeet!

Thank you. That's a cool video.

 

I'm a little envious of your working turnouts. I'm sort of committed to using the screw drive machines leftover from the mall. I have the power supply, but don't know how to hook it up. The system was designed by an electrical engineer. If I can get the first one hooked up, the other hundred should be a piece of cake.

You said this much earlier in this thread and I had meant to comment that that this is a near-constant theme that makes this forum by far the best I have seen anywhere.  Just about everyone here not only loves toy trains but has that desire to share and look at what others are sharing. 

 

That said, you have a lot of share with such an expansive, facinating layout.   I love the pictures and comments form you and others here, but it makes me tired just to look at the size and think about all the work involved, not just in finishing the benchwork/track but then the scenery and all.  As I observed earlier, I often feel challenged just keeping up with my 28 x 16 layout, which is much smaller than yours: now that mine is about 1/2 complete (i.e., down to the terrain and vegetation, etc.) I find that maintenance on that finished portion takes about half my time, leaving me less to complete the rest.  I've concluded that it is about as much as I can handle. 

 

Your's is a fantastic project!

Thank you Lee.

 

This monster can seem daunting, but so far there hasn't really been anything to maintain. Of course there aren't that many functioning systems yet. My hope is that I only have to do things once. Everything is being built to a different standard from what most people do. This practice is a carryover from my time at the mall. An example of my overkill is having electrical feeders on every 3 foot section of track.

 

I was thinking about this the other day, and I realized that this layout primarily track. The scenery and structure aspect will be rather minimalist. The majority of the structures will be industries, and or flats.  This is due to the fact that it actually based on real railroads in the Twin Cities. What has happened is the narrow scenes fill with track, leaving little room for much else. In one spot the Mississippi river will be compressed to a 2 inch ditch between tracks.

 

The track is really the biggest project. Benchwork construction is winding down. I'm going to set a goal, here and now, of having all track completed and powered by the end of 2014. 

 

Heading back down now to keep chipping away. Patrick was supposed to come over today, but we pushed his visit back to Thursday because of the snow.

 

Elliot --

I can't tell you Thank You enough for making the effort to show us your progress, but THANK YOU!  For Sharyl and I the building of our layout was much more fun than running the trains for our family and friends.  I don't know if that makes sense but the hands on building and seeing a tangible outcome that works is simply fun.  It inspires me to think about adding on and revising some scenes, I need to convince my scenery partner first

 

Our youngest son and his family live in MPLS and I would love to visit your layout some day within the next year.  Thank You again for letting us tag along during your construction progress, we appreciate it greatly!

 I'm looking and reading threw these posts and this one sums it up for me too. Would be cool to have someone near that's into trains this much. I probably wouldn't leave and would become that unwelcome guest!!!

 Just .....wow!

Elliot

 

Looking very very nice, beautiful craftsmanship

 

Alex

Thank you Jon. I really appreciate that. You're right, while running the trains may be the end goal, and that is fun, the challenge of getting there is the most rewarding. Just let me know when you will be in town and and you can bring the whole gang.

Patrick came over today, and we went to town. The helix got another third of a turn, flying over the first turnout, and stopping just short of the second. The next segment is where the second track begins.




The level was used to verify the vertical clearance. Nailed it. Whew.



The other project was to get the subroadbed down for the yard





This is what the area looked like to start.




Here's where we ended up.



Next week Patrick will be coming over twice. In the meantime, I'll keep working on things.

Thank you Alex. That's quite the compliment coming from someone who does such beautiful model work as yourself. This is just rough construction. It's not quite as pretty close up, but it gets the job done.

 

Joe, I apologize for living so far off the beaten path. I wish I lived closer to all you guys. 

Totally blown away with all this grand work ELLIOT.  Keep on keepin on!!!  This is just great!  I recently retired and if I lived closer I'd be there a few times a week.  Love the helix.  How big of a power plant you gonna have for this monster?

laz57

Thanks Laz. I have my "Tim Allen" power supplies from the mall. A monster layout needs monster power.

This board has nine 6.3V 20A transformers. Three transformers are ganged together in series for 20A at 18.9V. So there are 3 power supplies on each board. I have 3 boards, but the plan is to only use two. Only one is in service right now, but I'd like to bring the second online this year, with all this new track.



Truth is, I'm not even sure if I need all this power. I've got an almost 100% can motor locomotive roster, and very few passenger cars. These supplies were designed with older equipment in mind.

Elliot what diameter is the track when it "rounds" the corner to the next aisle?

Hi Mike.

 

The curves at the ends of the peninsulas are generally 092 for the outside track. No mainline track is under 072. The double track curve that will connect the existing track to the new section will be something close to 084 and 076.

 

Where you see the four track curve, which I've nicknamed the "Horseshoe curve" for obvious reasons, the middle two tracks are the mains. The outside and the sharper inside are yard leads.

I am tired!! I seem to work hardest when Patrick comes over to help. What happens is, he does most of the assembly, while I run around cutting lumber and grabbing tools. It's a great arrangement, and the progress has been spectacular.

Just four weeks ago, there was no helix. Today it is about 2/3 done. Another half turn was added.



The flyover is now connected to the helix.



The 25' incline was also done today.



The new yard is taking shape.




Patrick is back again Friday. I've got to work fast.

Nice work!

Thanks Rich.

 

As the scenes get a little further along, I'll post pictures of the real world locations that are being represented.

lease do!  That is a very fun and interesting thing to be doing.  I will look forward to it!

Elliott,

 

I was fortunate to visit enterTrainment in the Mall of America on my only trip to Minneapolis.  In fact, I still have the flyer that I picked up.  Your layout was a pleasant find and a good place to relax as I walked all 3 1/2 floors of the Mall.

 

Jan

Elliot,

   Great job, can't wait to see the trains run on it!

PCRR/Dave

Lee, I haven't forgotten about posting pics of real locations. I just got a new computer and need to move my pics over, plus there's a bit of a learning curve with a new operating system and browser.

 

Jan, I'm glad you enjoyed your visit. Somewhere buried in all the junk is the guest book. It would be fun to see if you signed.

 

Dave, trains do run. The big problem is I don't have any working switches right now. That will be one of my priorities this summer. I took a count, and there will be over 130 on the lower level alone. I think the upper level will have around 70. Not all will be powered, most industries will have Caboose ground throws.

 

In the meantime, here is a video that was shot last summer. It isn't great, but it will give you an idea of the layout's size.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdmK4VfeFcE

Wow.  I love people with ambition!  200 switches -  Oh Golly Miss Molly!

 

At one time, I had maybe 25 of so switches on my layout (all remote - I figured with the effort required to put them in well I might as well wire them for remote control, too).  But now I have only two, both operating only in anti-derail mode on reversing loops. 

Elliot

 

     Thanks again for the update, lots of progress. The helix has me intrigued as my club is planning one. If you are ever in Chicago come on by. Despite the flurries, spring has arrived here.

 

Best

 

Ray Marion

Yes Lee, sometimes simplicity is bliss, and there is part of me that wishes I has gone that route. But long ago the decision was made to go down this "track", hence the word nightmare in the topic title. I've quietly been following your battles and triumphs.

Ray, my wife and I have a trip planned for this fall, but in the opposite direction. Seattle, Portland, San Francisco, Salt Lake and Denver, a 3 week road trip. We may still go to Chicago though.

Below are some of the promised pics of the layout and the real world. This is Dayton's Bluff. Use your imagination to fill in the scenery. The bluff will cover the tracks where all those engines are sitting. It will be made of foam and easily lift off for access.






Some fresh pics of the progress. The Helix is almost at the top level. One more turn and it's done. The subroadbed is now connected to the working section of the layout. Patrick will be here in a few minutes. I'll post new pics tonight.

Another very productive day with Patrick. No work on the helix, but the entire length of the peninsula is now ready for track, and 4 sections of backdrop are hung. It looks so different!!! Just wait til I break out the blue paint.







No, Patrick is not laying down on the job. He really loves working on the layout, and I really love having his help.



I've got to get back to laying track on the helix, so we can finish construction when Patrick comes back on Friday. Still shooting for completion by the end of the month. Gonna be close.

Patrick was here again today, and the helix has finally reached the second level. One more half turn and it's done.

 

From this shot it is actually difficult to see what was done today. The helix is getting too tall.



The two tracks had been running parallel up to this point where they begin to separate.



When the helix reached the fourth level, it became clear that in order to make the jump across the aisle to the top of the bookshelf, the outer track was going to have to make another 3/4 turn. That extension meant that there would have to be a crossing involved.

 

Here the inside track will go straight through the diamond, and pass between the 2x4's which make up the backdrop support. The straight leg of the switch leads to the Ford plant, which will run the length of the upper deck on the near side of the backdrop. The curved leg will lead to the Amtrak depot on top of the bookshelves.





The helix will end here, 8" higher than the deck that was just installed today.




My goal of finishing by the end of March looks like it will come up a few days short, but all in all not bad.

Well, 54 days after we started, the helix is done. The last piece of track and all of the rough wiring is complete. Just for fun, I took an MTH Superliner car and turned it loose and let gravity take over. Pretty smooth run, top to bottom no problems.

The helix is topped out and the connection to the bookshelf is in.



The junction that allows the Empire Builder to get to the depot on the bookshelf.







The view from the inside.



Tomorrow construction moves to the section between the helix and the working section of the railroad. I have to cut the switch (middle right in the photo) into an existing track, and get the wye done.

Nice work.  This shot from the inside is great. 

Wow!  Impressive as anything I've seen here.  Less than two months for all that.  You should call it the Too Tall Helix.  With two tracks, too.  Excellent!!!

Thanks Mike, the more I look at that picture, the more it reminds me of jail cell. It did get a little "confined" in there toward the end.

 

Thanks Lee, that's quite the compliment. It is almost too tall.

 

Keep in mind that I did have help. Without Patrick it would have taken much longer. Having him do much of the assembly from the inside saved me a lot of crawling under.

 

Thanks Chad, nobody has ever asked about that before. That is a technique that I came up with many years ago, for use in areas that will be hidden. It serves as a bending form for Gargraves, and also provides for perfect and consistent spacing of multiple tracks. It is made up of two layers of Luan plywood and locks the track in place without screws. It is a little labor intensive to do all that kerf cutting for the curves, but the material isn't that expensive.

 

WOW! That thing is a beast! Can't wait to see it filled up with 2 trains rolling through it. That luan form looks like a really great idea.

Thanks, I make those strips on the table saw, then bundle 4' lengths together with duct tape and cut the slots on the radial arm saw. They could be used with screws as temporary bending and spacing forms.

 

Yes, it is a bit of a beast isn't it. As I was taking pictures last night, I was beginning to wonder if the drywall screws that attach the legs to the frame would hold over the long term. I'm guessing there's about 30 - 40 pounds resting on each leg.

Elliot,

 

That looks awesome, well done!!!!!!!!!

 

Alex

Patrick has been coming over once a week for four months now. Since we finished the helix a few weeks ago, the focus has shifted to cleaning up some old unfinished business. We have been working on finishing the support system for the upper deck, and all the lower deck backdrops. I estimate that the benchwork is now 90% complete, and we are nearly done with dimensional lumber.

It has actually been a bit of an engineering challenge, to provide totally hidden cantilever support, able to carry something on the order of 50 pounds per sqft. A few different techniques have been used to to accomplish this.

Starting at the new helix, we now have 122' of continuous backdrop. The first 32' are painted.



The trains will disappear under a bridge here as they pass through the backdrop.



Patrick the pretzel, hard at work.



In this area, the curve of the backdrop provides the stability for the upper deck. The support column for the house will have a cement plant built around it.



The other side of the curve.



The backdrop ends down at the other end of the room, but on Friday that will change.



I've taken a piece of 3" PVC pipe and cut it in half. It will be blended into the butt end of the backdrop using bondo.




This next pair of photos is a before and after. This is the section we worked on today.

Note the two scraps of plywood being used to tie the upper deck to the floor joists.



They are gone forever! There are also twice the number of supports.



We used 5 of my bench brackets to stabilize this section.



In order to fix the problem of sagging joints, a second layer of 1x4 was added with the joints staggered. Huge improvement!




This will look very different after Friday when the backdrop goes up. No more seeing through to the next aisle.



Our next major project will probably be installing the track for the suspended ceiling.

Another busy day with Patrick, 68 more feet of backdrop hung. It is amazing how something so simple defines spaces and scenes.



This aisle just needs to have the Pigs Eye yard added on the left, and the track is  done.



There are 9 cab-1's, each with a different color band of electrical tape. At some point in the future, I'm expecting company.



This is the only spot so far where the backdrop is attached directly to the wall. The piece of plywood is being used as a clamp, as it was necessary to glue it down.



Looking the other direction.



The industrial spurs on the left were the final tracks in this aisle. They were finished today too.



This is going to be 3M's Chemolite plant.



A long view toward Chemolite.



There will be structures on both sides of the tracks.



Next week we'll fill and sand the screw heads and seams. Then it's on to the suspended ceiling.

WOW! I have been following along and... WOW...

Can you put JDaddy's name on one of those remotes!

Love it, keep up the great work.

I have been working on my double deck since 2007. My lower deck is complete, upper deck still in the infancy stage.... if only I had more room.

 

If only I lived closer you would have another helper...Keep us posted

 

BTW I like how you stored your bridges so they will not get damaged during the build.

 

Thanks J Daddy, you and everyone else are welcome anytime you're in the neighborhood. You can choose whichever remote you like from all the colors of the rainbow. I use the color, symbol for number, that they use to mark the values of resistors.

Unfortunately, those bridges aren't just stored up in the rafters, now they're buried since Patrick and I put up the drop ceiling. I have no use for them on this layout. They are leftover from 20 years ago, when I had the layout at the mall. The real problem with them is they don't have enough vertical clearance for the tall scale cars like double stacks.

I have slacked off posting to this topic over the six week stretch while Patrick and I put up the ceiling. I was posting regularly over on the "What did you do on your layout today?" topic.

https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/t...91#18887627712770991

Now that we are back onto actual layout work, I'll chronicle it here again.



Patrick will be here tomorrow, and the plan is to continue to putty and sand backdrops so they can be painted.

Elliot are you using rubber cement for the backdrop?

Mike, at this stage, we're just trying to get the masonite hung and the screw heads and seams smoothed over. Then I'll paint all of it blue. Eventually clouds, trees and whatnot will be painted on. There is one spot where I'd like to do a photo backdrop of downtown St Paul. I think it will depend on the type of paper it gets printed on and how large it is, as to what type of adhesive I use. It could be spray adhesive. The nice thing about rubber cement is that it is more forgiving than spray adhesive.

that is looking really goo !  I get tired just thinking of all the work, though.

Well if it makes you feel any better Lee, I get tired doing it. Even if Patrick is doing most of the heavy work.

 

I'm actually downstairs poking away at that layout lighting. I hope to have lights on both sides of this peninsula top and bottom functional by next week. It will be a lot easier working on the track when I can see.

 

Patrick may not make it tomorrow. We'll have to reschedule if he doesn't.

Sometimes it is difficult to see change when you're constantly looking at something. Take a photo and record a moment in time, then come back a year later...































It should look a lot different next year, especially with Patrick's help.

I had not followed this thread in sometime, just awesome.  Keep up the progress and pictures coming.

Mike

Elliot,

Thank you for chronicling this journey from paper to reality. There is so much experience and knowledge displayed in the photographs.

 

I really enjoy it. 

They say an artist must suffer for his art.  I applaud your vision, courage, and perseverance.  Thanks for sharing this herculean effort.

Thanks Guys! A lot of the credit has to go to Patrick, without his help over the last 7 months, I might have thrown in the towel. Now I can see the light at the end of the tunnel, but in this case it is a good thing that it is the train.

Track laying will resume soon, probably in October. My wife and I are taking a 3 week road trip to the west coast in September. I'm worried that Patrick will suffer from withdrawal while we are gone.

In an earlier post I had mentioned the idea of having all the track on the lower level done by the end of this year. In light of the fact that we took time to do the drop ceiling, and the lighting (which was never in the original plan), the timetable has been pushed back slightly this year. I still hope to have all the track on both levels laid and powered by the end of 2014.

I think we will have the last of the heavy construction done by the first part of next  year, with one last material delivery coming before the snow flies.

I told Patrick yesterday that scenery should start in 2015, although in a way, it has already started with the blue sky.

Its looking really good!  The backdrop seems to be working out very well for you: nothing but "blue skies" ahead for you!

Indeed! And those light bulbs keep me looking on the bright side too.

GO ELLIOT!  GO ELLIOT!  GO ELLIOT!

A lot of hard work and dedication, looks great, it's amazes what can be done in the toy Train hobby

Well, it's been a couple of months since I have done any updates to this topic. My wife and I took a 20 day western road trip, so there hasn't been as much progress to report as there would normally have been. We did see a lot of cool train related things though.

About a year ago I was building a rack to hold all the sheet goods for the layout. There were two problems with it. First, while I was trying to get it into the proper position, I kicked it, and ended up breaking my toe. Second, and I'm still not sure how this happened, I built it 8' tall, but the sheets didn't fit without binding.

Menards delivered a 2' high bale of materials on Wednesday. Patrick came over today, so the first order of business was to correct the design flaw to the rack, and get everything put away. That project took about half the afternoon, but boy was it worth it.

 

The delivery guy's donkey is too tall to fit in the garage, but we've done this a few times, and he can drop the bale just inside the door by extending the forks and giving it a little extra push.

 

The repaired and filled rack.

 

Ready for a long winter of construction.

 

Patrick picks up where he left off, securing more decking on the second peninsula.

 

By the end of next week, I hope to have some backdrop on the upper deck, and close off this half of the room, once and for all.

 

It was necessary to do some impromptu engineering, with the addition of some 2x4's to help counter balance the weight of the plywood.

 

We'll be trimming that corner off into a nice smooth curve.



Next Wednesday and Friday with Patrick and maybe Sunday with Matt. Making up for lost time.

funny I was talking about you to a guy from the twin cities on a skype call durring an off show chat for model rail radio (www.modelrailradio.com).

Thanks for the plug Mike, I had no idea that even existed. I have a tendency to get a little too focused on the layout construction and miss a lot of the other things in the modeling world. Now I'm curious if I know the person you were talking with.

i dont think you do, as the discussion was around layouts to see, clubs, than the mall of america.  If you have skype (this gose to anyone)  call in sometime

 

It has been a busy month working on the layout. Patrick has been here 4 more times since my last update, and Matt has been here twice.

This month has seen less layout construction than other months, but more progress in other important areas.

Here's a quick recap:

 

We finished the lower level lighting in the north half of the room.

 

We installed the plywood on the upper deck of the second peninsula.

 

Started the layout lighting in the south half of the room.



Added another 24' of decking to the second peninsula.

Suffered a minor setback when the dishwasher blew a hose and leaked down on my new ceiling. No damage to the layout, but the kitchen floor wasn't as lucky. The dishwasher has been repaired, but I'm not sure I trust it enough to fix everything yet.

 

Matt was on a roll and threw down a half case of Gargraves in a single afternoon.


It's not quite the Union Pacific's 10 miles of track in a day, but it was pretty darn good in my world.


We can now turn the layout lights on with a single switch.


And they're on their own circuit.


Matt works on a couple of sections of track that will be difficult to access once the backdrop goes up.


Track power wiring begins, literally tying up loose ends.


That brings me to Patrick's visit today.

 

We took care of a couple of electrical projects that I had been dreading for quite some time. This first one was a biggie. Those 4 outlets are where the second power supply will plug in. Now all I have to do is add a few small wires to the panel. Then when the the wiring is done on the upper level, a whole new section of the layout will be able to have running trains.


That bottom piece of conduit coming out of the junction box was a tricky bending job.


It feeds the last two convenience outlets on the layout. No more long extension cords. You are never more than 6' from an outlet.



For the last seven months or so, I have been posting daily progress over on "What did you do on your layout today?" 

 

I will continue to do that, and use this topic for monthly recaps.

all I can say is holy moly. That is freakin awesome.

I just finished re-reading this thread. I noticed it is almost a year old and I can't believe what a testament it is to overcoming some serious health issues and the development of a year-long (and counting) friendship. This is the stuff Hallmark movies are made of and while the layout itself is awesome, the story is awe inspiring, something much more valuable.

 

I have a nephew who lives in Minneapolis and my wife and I expect to be stopping in later next year. I would love to set up a visit to the layout, if the offer is still open then. This home layout is almost double the size of the club layout in McCormick-Stillman Railroad Park and that layout is amazing.

Thanks Southern.

 

Dave, I really appreciate those kind words. I was lucky to spot your post within a day of you making it. Things can get buried on the forum fairly quickly, especially during the middle of the day.

 

When your visit gets a little closer, drop me an email at the address in my profile, and we can set up a time.

Will do, Elliot.

Incredible Elliot. What a great story and thank you for sharing this impressive layout.

Well, another month is in the books, time to figure out where it went.

Patrick was here 4 times, and Matt was here just once.

 

Pigs Eye yard is the last piece of the main level to get plywood.

With the plywood installed, all that's needed is the fiberboard.


I did that part myself between Patrick's visits.


I also installed some ground throws over in the Newport/St Paul Park industrial area.


I always install stops, so that the handle doesn't travel past horizontal. I also paint them so the operator can see them better.

I cleared all the junk out of this corner. Patrick builds the upper deck.

Last spring, Patrick brought me some cabinets he had salvaged from a bank demolition he had done. I spent all summer trying to figure the best way to use them.


Between his visits, this is what I came up with.


Matt came over, and continued to work on wiring. One more session and that section will be done. Then we can work on laying track on the lower level.


Pigs Eye was supposed to have been a hump yard, but clearly there wasn't enough length to do it right, so it has become a normal flat yard. There will be 5 or 6 tracks, and an engine service area beyond where the bucket is sitting.


Patrick's next visit, we made additional shelves for the cabinets, installed the doors, and then filled them with tools. The workbench is starting to get that "lived in" look.


We also took advantage of some otherwise wasted space with some more shelves.


Finally it was back to layout construction as Patrick and I extended the layout lighting from the left all the way back around to the right 10' beyond what is visible in the photo.

When Patrick comes over Monday, we'll get power over to this new string of lights and get more decking on. It is possible we could get the upper deck plywood done before the end of the year.


It was finally time to replace the old TV. The cabinet will be repurposed into a rack to hold wire spools. I built that 15 years ago to match the book shelves.


I inherited this 42" LCD from my father-in-law last summer. One day I hope to be able to have a real time track occupancy dispatching panel displayed on it.


It sure is nice having a proper workbench. I was able to sit down and repair some broken switches the other day.


So much progress, and the year isn't quite done yet.

Wow, I get tired just thinking of all the work involved.  It is looking pretty spectacular I must say!

That is a "man cave" of epic proportions.

/emote "kneels and bows in respect"

I really enjoy looking at your progress.  Keep the pictures coming.

 

Doug

Thanks for sharing this interesting and ambitions project.  Well done!

I also enjoy seeing the progress of such a huge endeavor.

Larry

Thanks guys. I enjoy sharing my layout with you, and your comments help to provide me with motivation to keep the ball rolling.

 

Chip, it really is a cave. I designed the house with 2 windows in the train room, and the first thing I did was cover them up with sheetrock. There is one other important element to the "man cave" concept that you haven't seen. Just around the corner, in the other room, there's a full sized refrigerator.

Wow Elliot,

 

You guys are really moving along.  Thanks for sharing the photos.  What a project!

 

Rich

Elliot: First time I read this thread and you are building an AWESOME layout. Continue the great work look forward to watching this thread form this point forward.

Rick, welcome aboard. Enjoy the journey.

 

Rich, I don't know where I'd be without Patrick and Matt.

 

Patrick has been with me since the beginning of the year almost every single week, except for September, when I was out of town for 3 weeks. I really owe him most of the credit for the progress.

 

Matt came on board in August, but his schedule hasn't allowed him as many visits. It sounds like things will settle down for him after the holidays. I suspect he will be working with me every other week.

 

I've said this a few times, but I figure if I repeat it enough, it will happen. The plan is to have all the track laid and powered by the end of 2014. I really think we can do this.

 

Dang Elliot I need to get over and get back to work.

Yes you do! Sunday's open, just say the word. PLEASE.

Yes, Matt, we need you!

Not only is another month in the books, but an entire year has passed since I started this topic.

 

Let's start with December's progress. Patrick and I started by adding the curved flyover.


The second deck plywood advances around the east end.


Layout lights are powered up, now we can see when we are working.


The continued to move up the peninsula. We are now within 30' of connecting up to the old section. The plan is to build a hump yard there, but I'm not sure if I want to sacrifice smooth operation and potential coupler damage to do it.


Patrick is nearly done sanding and priming the backdrop. We'll start the new year off with a lot of blue paint.


We installed a work light under one section of the layout. We'll be adding 2 more banks under different sections in the near future.


We built some shelves under the workbench, which pretty much completes that project.


Next week will mark the one year anniversary of Patrick helping me. It would have been impossible for me to accomplish all of this by myself. While this topic has a lot of the photos of what was done in 2013, even more can be found over on "What did you do on your layout today?"

 

Here's a list of the major projects we tackled this year:

• A new helix
• 150' of backdrop
• Lower level plywood completed
• Upper level plywood 75% complete
• Layout lighting 50% complete
• New power supply ready for activation
• New workbench
• Drop ceiling
• Plus a whole lot of smaller projects

I also want to thank Matt, who joined my crew late in the season, but in that short time has been very helpful laying track and wiring. I look forward to seeing what the 3 of us can accomplish in 2014.

 

Finally, here's a little video I shot a few weeks ago.

 

 

Happy New Year!

 

 

Great video; unbelievable layout.

Nice. Thanks For the video update. 

Great progress on the layout. Thanks for the video