My impression on the Cab1L that I received today

I mostly use CAB-1, so the CAB-1L fitted into my hand like a new old friend. It was nice to actually have a controller that is NEW for a change. My CAB-1s are getting old and cranky - not unlike myself.

 

I can only use it at the mall, having no Legacy base at home. The color looks rich to me and definitely sets mine apart for the operators who like to inadvertently pick up someone else's remote and send their trains flying.

I found the PDF manual doing a Google search.  I went through it trying to find out if/how you tell the unit to send CAB-1 commands, TMCC commands, or LEGACY commands.  The closest thing I could find was using momentum settings to force the speed steps and that would imply the "mode"?  Or does the CAB 1L default to TMCC mode (aka fixed 32 speed steps)?

Chuck it must default to Cab 1 because when you enter a Legacy address, you must "tell" the remote it's operating a Legacy engine at that address at least to get the quilling whistle.  (Page 9) .

 

Also if I remember correctly, there is really not "Legacy" 200 speed steps like the Cab2.  I think 100 is the best you can do provided the locomotive supports it.

 

Manual

So they preserved the main deficiency with the CAB-1 by keeping relative speed steps?

Sounds like a question for Jon Z. from Lionel.  I'm sure he knows exactly what it sends and the operating modes it supports.

Jeff,

That velocity wheel without the detents was a HUGE, HUGE, HUGE disappointment on our end. This really is the TMCC Cab-1 we were told couldn't be made anymore, just with different communications to base.

 

Marty,

We had not tried it yet, but a Legacy controller that doesn't run a Legacy engine in all the speed steps? That makes it a TMCC Cab-1

 

Too bad nothing mentions any of this, & no way to contact Lionel anymore...

We'll use it for TMCC folks but not Legacy.

I agree, I've always thought this was a good step towards ending  the "disappearing zero point" and "ghost throttling". of the old cab ones as they wore out.

 

I suppose it has to fall a bit short, so folks still buy the full blown legacy system. Maybe its "our fault" so-to-speak, wanting full legacy features out of a lesser priced trimmed down unit.

 

 

Question, while reading over the manual, I saw instructions on how to set smoke output.  It doesn't say, but is that a Legacy only feature, or is it a basic TMCC feature, because it's not in the TMCC Cab-1 manual I have?  And if it's a TMCC feature, you can bet I'm going to set my K-Line Big Boy and Allegheny to high.

Adjustable smoke output is a feature of the locomotive, not the remote. If your loco owners manual indicates adjustable smoke output it is accessable from any Lionel remote i.e. cab1 cab2 or cab1L.

 

I don't "think "K line offered adjustable smoke output.

so if a Legacy locomotive has adjustable smoke, a CAB-1 will adjust it?

 

you guys using the same CAB1L as me? 

 

I was running my NKP765 with the CAB1L and the CAB2 with none of the issues some of you are seeing.

When legacy came out with the cab 2 the cab 1 went to the dust bin of history. The cab 1L may run legacy and tmcc in a limited waY, but why buy it? Just buy extra cab 2's. You get all the features of legacy. 

"Sounds like a question for Jon Z. from Lionel.  I'm sure he knows exactly what it sends and the operating modes it supports."

 

Well, I've been asking this question since the product was announced.  Even put it on the question list for the LUG meeting.  

 

I don't know how else to ask whether the CAB-1L supports the three possible modes of address outlined in the Legacy manual, aka CAB-1 relative steps, TMCC 32 absolute steps, Legacy 200 absolute speed steps (page 81 of the Legacy V 1.5 manual).

Chuck,

 

The Cab1-L sends relative speed commands.  Without any feedback on a display, sending absolute speed commands would be very confusing, especially with 2 cabs running the same loco (ie Father & child). 

 

As far as the detents, well I hear as many complaints about having one as I have read on this thread about not having one.  On the Cab-2 quite often the detents cause the throttle to change, especially when trying to go from 0 to 1.  I have been frustrated with trying to set speed step to 1, then the loco moving then stopping because the throttle moved back to 0.

 

We did change the friction design on the throttle on Cab1-L, these should not wear out over time - not loosen up like Cab1's did.

 

The best feature of the Cab1-L is the quilling whistle support.  You select the loco, and while holding SET, press HORN.  Toggles between the 2 whistle control methods (TMCC vs Legacy).

 

Post additional questions here, or email me.  I will usually respond within a few days.

 

Interesting, I have noted the Legacy occasionally changes one notch, never gave it a lot of thought.  It makes sense that I have it sitting halfway through a detent and it drops in.  Might also explain the comments I hear about Legacy locomotives occasionally starting to creep.

Thank you for the quick response.

 

So the following caveat applies equally to the CAB-1L as it did to the original CAB-1:

 

Two operators, one with a CAB-2 and one with a CAB-1, should not operate the same Engine or Train simultaneously. It is not recommended to “go between” CAB-2 and CAB-1 while operating the same Engine or Train. Doing this will make the graph on the CAB-2 incorrect. 

 

page 8 of the 1.5 manual, paragraph on Sharing Control.

 

Are the address range issues with the TR's fixed? aka greater than 9?

 

I'm curious as to how Lionel intended to implement the absolute speed steps that were first documented when the original Command Base was released.  There was never mention of the need for a graphic feed back/display and there definitely wasn't one on the original controller.  My understanding was the yard boss ZW was going to have an LCD but these never made it out of development/prototype.

CAB1L TRs 1 through 99.

TR1-99 on Legacy engines only.  TMCC are still 1-9.

I'm picking up a CAB1L system tomorrow.  Looking forward to getting it and trying it out.  My Legacy system..essentially brand new since it didn't perform properly out of the box-- is currently packed-up at the office, awaiting a return to Lionel service.

 

I most definitely like the feel of the CAB1L Remote far better than the overly large Legacy Remote…simply a matter of personal preference.  I don't really need all the extra features that Legacy provides because many are things I would never use on a modest-size layout like the one I have.  I also didn't like the original TMCC Remote (same size as the CAB1L) because of the antenna.  Won't have to worry about that now.

Allan. 

 

Your Legacy has been off line for almost a year. Whadaya waitin" for?

I picked up the CAB1L before Christmas.  I like the size and not having an antennae.   I use it mostly for my TMCC controlled accessories and tmcc only speeder cars.  Usually, I use the Legacy remote to run the Legacy engines.  However, I do like some of the legacy features I can do on the CAB1L.  Sometime I will use it when my kids are using my other the Legacy remotes, to operate my trains while switching in the yard.  I only have on CAB1 remote and wanted a 2nd CAB remote.

 

I did test using CAB1L to control an engine my kids are using with a Legacy remote.  It works ok with horn, whistle.  If you do any speed control, the legacy can no longer track the speed.   It can get unpredictable.  I know it is not designed for this, so this is not an issue with me.  

 

If I need to control an engine at the same time my kids are doing it, I will use my other legacy remote.  Legacy remotes do a great job at this. 

 

 

 

 

 

Waiting for the CAB1-L system.  May even sell the Legacy once it is gutted and repaired.  

If you hurry you can get big bucks for it. Seems there is a shortage. 

"the overly large Legacy Remote"

 

 

If he sells it, he may need your help getting in back in the box and over to the shipper Marty!

Dumb question here ---- have been a TMCC user for many years now, have NO plans to acquire Legacy, currently am using 3 CAB1's to run trains (not solo but with friends) ..... the question is .... can i use the CAB1L as a replacement for a CAB1 using only the original TMCC base?

jackson

Thank you.

Small correction, obviously the CAB-1L can also use the BASE-1L or the Legacy base.  However, the original CAB1 is not compatible with any of the newer bases.

 

I am considering buying one just to keep with my  modular club things. The club layout uses TMCC and Legacy, and having a remote without an antenna would be a big plus when there's quite a few others in the general area. Some of our layouts get quite large, so the Cab-1's antenna has to be extended quite a bit to get a reaction.

 

Since I run very few items that are command controlled, the extra features on a Cab2 don't really do much for me.

 

J White

 

I'm curious as to how Lionel intended to implement the absolute speed steps that were first documented when the original Command Base was released.

 

The Cab-2 can issue 32 absolute speed steps, that is how it was used.  Cab1 or Cab1-L will not use absolute, but the command were documented for computer control and now the Legacy system. 

 

On the latest Legacy Locos, (all since the Vision Hudson); I keep a translation between absolute 32, absolute 200, and relative, internally in the loco.  Switching between modes does not appreciably change the loco speed.  Prior to my Engine Operating System code I wrote for the RCMC (O gauge) and BEMC(S gauge) electronics, that was not true. 

 

It is still not possible to track throttle changes on the Cab-2 from Cab-1 speed changes without a change to the Legacy Base - which may be possible. Theoretically, we could keep Cab1-L changes updating on the Cab-2; as now the Cab1-L communicates to the Legacy Base.  Maybe we can look at this next Legacy update; but it really is icing on the cake and of limited return.

 

We do sync the iPad and iPhone apps throttle and the Cab-2 display, bi-directionally.

 

I installed a "rubber ducky" antenna on the CAB1 that I use on my test bench, solves the problem of the long antenna running into things.  It should have similar range as the full length antenna.

 

Here's one like I use: Rubber Duck CB Antenna with BNC.  I just mounted a BNC connector on the top of the CAB1 for the antenna.

 

 

 

 

Jon, thank you for the explanation.  I "retired" the CAB-1 when I got the 990 set and found out how much better all of my loco's performed with the CAB-2.  I've had the 990 set for almost two years and only acquired my first Legacy loco six months ago.

 

The TMCC mode which I can access from the CAB-2 allowed much finer control of engines that I had purchased as far back as 1997.  It also allowed me to run my S-2 in command mode with Odyssey 1 enabled.  In the past I could only run Odyssey on in conventional.   The Oddylurch typical of slow speed operation of these engines with the CAB-1 disappeared.  It was like I got a new engine.  

 

I'm much more concerned with the operating characteristics of the engines than being able to "play" with the horn/whistle.  I may very well be in the minority on this but I would find the CAB-1L a much more attractive device if it behaved more like a CAB-2 sans display(s) than a CAB-1 with a 2.4 ghz transmitter.

Chuck,

 

I see your point, and will keep in mind.  Do note the Cab1-L does have throttle algorithms that are different than the Cab1. 

 

The Relative vs Absolute speed step on the Cab2 is only part of the reason the TMCC locos perform differently and better with Cab2, it has to do with the timing of the commands sent to the loco as well.  The timing improvements from Cab-2 code was also ported to the Cab1-L. 

 

Basically what I am saying is that locos will perform better with Cab1-L as compared to Cab1.

I have had my Cab1-L for awhile now and enjoy it very much. Because of its similarity to the CAB-1, it's like an old pair of shoes, comfortable. I didn't use many of the features of the CAB-2, if fact, it was somewhat intimidating to me. I'm all diesel now on my layout, so quilling isn't important to me. If my one and only Legacy engine needs the CAB-2 remote for a special command, I've got one, If I just want to run my Legacy engine, I've got two remotes to choose from, the CAB-2 or the CAB1-L. If I were starting out today, CAB-1L remote and its command base would be plenty for me. This, of course, is just one person's opinion. Seeing as that the CAB-1 is no longer available from Lionel, this is a viable source for an extra remote at a lower price than a CAB-2

Again, thanks for the clarification about the algorithms.

 

The original CAB-1 always seemed to be a good example of KISS.  As much as I love the way the CAB-2 makes the trains run, the remote can be a bit overwhelming for actually running the trains.  

 

I was looking hard at the CAB-1L to run the engines and using the CAB-2 for set up.  It's good to know that the CAB-1L won't cause a performance hit.

 

Chuck,

 

I forget if it was OGR or CTT (I'll have to dive into my magazines later at home), but one of them did an in depth review of the Cab 1L and noted this concern.

 

Big Note for Cab 1L and Cab 2 users: It was also noted not to control the same Legacy train with the different remotes at the same time due to this issue. (Again, I'll have to find the review for the complete language unless someone beats me to it.)

 

 

**I found the OGR review of the Cab and Base 1L in run 266 of OGR. My other magazines are sealed up from packing, so I don't have the CTT issue available, which talks about using both remotes on a single Legacy engine at the same time.