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All I know is, I can't wait until I get back to the Meet tomorrow morning!  I have my eye on a few goodies.  And I'm already looking forward to April's York Meet.  Looking forward to being around all the trains and seeing friends!  It's not always about finding the best deal.  The social aspect of these events are why the TCA was formed in the first place.  An organization by the members for the members.

 

As a TCA member, who loves this hobby, I ask of those who have issues with the York Meet to give the event a chance and see how it evolves into an experience you'll enjoy.  Nothing is perfect and everyone sees things from their perspective as it should.  I just hope you'll have a better time and more fun next time.

 

playing with trains makes everything right with the world! 

Originally Posted by MNCW:

       
NS1719,
  Not sure why you are getting so much crapola from some folks here and 0% help. Never been to York, so I can't offer to help you. Based on your experience, maybe I'm not missing much. Good luck if you go back.
Tom

       


Thanks for the support!

I'm done speaking my opinion after this.  As another supportive member put it we are the future of the hobby!  It's sad to have to say that and grumpy people will be grumpy people,  that's too bad to have a bad attitude. 

To the idiot who says the job will be there when you get back!  Obviously you do not have your priorities straight do you!  For you to say that is ridiculous,  you might be able to get away with it but not everyone can.  Let me tell you something you can be replaced in a minute.  If anyone needs to grow up is you my friend.  Most younger members are at the time in their life,  they can't hope their job will be there when they get back from a toy train show.  Your job is your priority especially if you have a family.

I tell you some people here are unbelievable.

To the member who said to get involved,  ya know I work 3rd shift for NS,  I have a side business and a volunteer fire fighter a officer too.  Let me tell ya my friend you try to find time in my schedule to help volunteer for the TCA. It's easy for some not for all! 

Again it's a simple fix, put the correct times on all notices and be level headed. Unfortunately the level headed part doesn't work for the older generation of the TCA. 

I bet the time issue may be resolved next year!  Lmao!  So I  did my part!  Haha
Last edited by NS1719

It is definitely difficult when you're young, raising a family and working multiple jobs/ shifts to attend any type of activity.  I myself joined the TCA initially in 1983.  But with kids being born, new house and job, family and life changes happening, I had to drop my membership because I needed to prioritize not only finances but time also.

 

i was just as much a "Trainiac" back then as I am now, but I had to take care of the issues I mentioned And took a 13 year hiatus, kicking and screaming, from the hobby and TCA.  It wasn't until the kids were in late high school and finances improved that I ramped up again.  

 

Im enjoying the York Meets and the hobby in general a hundred fold now!  Hopefully all younger current and future members will eventually be as lucky and have as much fun with trains as I am.  The time will come!

Let me say for those who don't know me:

I'm 62....so, I am classified as "old".....but, I do look younger .

....and for the record.....I bathe daily, use deodorant, soap, clean clothes, etc.....the full  treatment.....

 

I am sure NS1719s original posting was just highlighting his frustration. I can remember as a 30 year old what I had to sacrifice in order to make York just for one day. It's always frustrating when something you read is not entirely accurate. Posted times should be correct!

 

It is so frustrating to see this degenerate into a young/old thing. All of us who are "old" really do respect where you are in your lives.....most of us have been there. I still work full-time and am running toe-to-toe with my 30 year old partners. I am lucky that I no longer have young children to balance in the equation like they do. There are many challenges on the time of young adults.

 

It is very different today than the mid-80s when I started out. The internet and the availability of information make things faster and the demands on one's time at work has become more intense.

 

Young train people and old train people (like myself) have much to learn from each other. This hobby gives us much more common ground than differences. I believe this entire thread was born of frustration(and rightly so) and is better forgotten.

 

I usually never comment on threads such as these. However, my "real life" roles force me by their nature to be inclusive and to try to build consensus.

 

Last edited by Putnam Division

NS1719, I'm sorry you had bad time at York. I hope you give it another try someday. I'm pretty much a scale guy (even though yesterday I bought a postwar tender) so I sometimes don't even hit the member halls. I spend most of my time in the Orange and Purple Halls. I definitely understand about jobs. Gone are the secure jobs that were around for the older generation. I don't consider myself old at 50 but I'm not one of the young guys in this hobby anymore. I'm lucky that I usually schedule the day off at my job to go.

 

NS1719 wrote:

Honestly I wasn't all that up set about the 5 o'clock closing time, I could accept I missed something. How ever the ATTITUDE of the STAFF in the hall I was in and the Announcer was VERY UNPROFESSIONAL! That is what upset me the most! 

 

This is just my experience yesterday and all previous Yorks. I have never been given an attitude by any of the staff. They have always been helpful to me whenever I asked a question or needed to get something done. I'm not saying that you didn't get someone with an attitude just that it never happened to me.

 

That same lady announcer has been doing the announcing since I started going in 2001. I admit she is a little on the crass side but I wouldn't say nasty. Yesterday she actually gave out some misinformation and then a minute later she says, "The announcer made a mistake...." instead of I made a mistake and I thought to myself You're kidding right? Well crass or not I pretty much tune her out. Being a York veteran I am used to the system after all these years. I wouldn't have had your problem because I go on Friday. I get there at 9am and I'm done at 5pm.

 

Hey everyone did you hear the new rule: Strollers are now allowed in the Halls. But you must have a baby in the stroller. You cannot use the stroller as a shopping cart.

 

 

 

Last edited by Hudson J1e

I've always had a battle within myself about the table holders in the member halls needing time to walk the show and see the tables. If the member halls close at 5pm then the assumption is set forth that they have no interest in other member tables and the prize is to be able to go to the orange hall. I can partly accept this, yet another part of me says people travel to this to buy and sell trains. You can't do either if tables have sheets over them and the halls are closed. I know several table holders in the member halls that have their wife or another person watch their table while they spend the day going from hall to hall buying more items to be put up for sale back at their own table. They don't seem to have any trouble "seeing everything" during the course of the day.

Originally Posted by NS1719:
Originally Posted by MNCW:

       
 

       



To the member who said to get involved,  ya know I work 3rd shift for NS, a

God Bless you. By 3rd shift I assume you mean the overnight shift. You start somewhere around 11pm or midnight and work 8 hrs from there correct? It is called 1st shift where I work. I did that shift for 3 years where I work and I was never so sleep deprived in my life. I tried everything but most of the time could not sleep during the day. People kept bothering me all the time. Their thought process was "Well you're off every day you can help me out or do something for me,etc". Yeah, but when they were sleeping I was working! When I finally got on to the evening shift I slept 9hrs a day for a year!

Originally Posted by Putnam Division:

Let me say for those who don't know me:

I'm 62....so, I am classified as "old".....but, I do look younger .

....and for the record.....I bathe daily, use deodorant, soap, clean clothes, etc.....the full  treatment.....

 

I am sure NS1719s original posting was just highlighting his frustration. I can remember as a 30 year old what I had to sacrifice in order to make York just for one day. It's always frustrating when something you read is not entirely accurate. Posted times should be correct!

 

I usually never comment on threads such as these. However, my "real life" roles force me by their nature to be inclusive and to try to build consensus.

 

Peter, 

   Nicely said. Glad you are doing the "full treatment" too! 

 

   I know from going to large flea markets that they can sometimes be a bit overwhelming. Maybe if a few of the "older" wise attendees offered for NS1719 to tag along with him/her/them he could get a better sense of the event. He works for a railroad so he can't be all bad! 

 

Tom 

Originally Posted by GregR:
Originally Posted by Greg Houser:

Pot, meet kettle.

 

You state you've been going to York for 3 years yet are oblivious to much.  I know this is tough for you younger folks but just try it - take 15 minutes and actually read through the Eastern Division website and many of your questions will be answered.  I know it's tough to concentrate on any one thing for more than a few minutes with the proliferation of electronic devices but you really only have yourself to blame for not being informed.  You do know how to use google, correct? Or ask away on this forum....

 

Once on the Eastern Division website the complete schedule is one mouse click away.

 

--Greg

As a younger operator/collector,...

...Frankly, too much of the TCA experience is geared toward seniors to the exclusion of younger guys. ..

.... The same thing happens at TCA meets all over the country. They pack up and head out with their walkers and canes by noon! At times there is an almost unbearable generational social divide. Do you think I can find anyone to socialize with who has a wife or kids? Oh hell no. I keep getting trapped in awkward conversations about the latest surgery or prostrate problem someone is having. It's unfortunate that most of the TCA membership is now elderly, but I am not at that point in my life where everything revolves around the next doctor's visit. Consequently, I quit TCA, and I have no interest in their meets. There are just too many grumpy sellers, and socially unbalanced, aspergery, smelly, hairless rats, scampering around. It scares my little girl, just a seeing a child probably scares them.

Well, there's a view that sounds balanced in ts social outlook and acceptance of differences.

Originally Posted by Panther97:

... I agree the deals are not that great.   I get better deals at my local train shops...

Not true for me.  Prime example - Vinces' Trains (I think that's who it was) had what I thought was a GREAT prices on New MTH Premiere 6-axle diesels with major road names, some with PS3.0 for $275.  My LHS would probably have it for $450.  Unfortunately, they had no NS, or I would have bought at least one.  Virtually everything I saw was significantly less than my LHS.

NS1719,

 

i was was about your age when I joined the TCA back in 1985. I worked a 45 hour full time job and a PT job that was 25 hours per week. 

Not allot of time for hobbies. Between work, family and other things my time was very limited. But one thing I did do was schedule my trips to York every year, twice a year. Your no different, when we are younger our time is always limited.

 

As far as York goes don't let the small stuff bother you. I just got home from my 62nd straight York and I had as much fun as I did my first time. I don't listen to the announcements  I have learned to tune them out. Hey, mistakes are made, it happens. 

 

Yes their are allot of older people there, I'm one of them (69) but one day if you still keep coming so will you. For me now I go to see what is new, meet old friends, make new friends and talk till I can't. I love every minute. 

 

What you experienced is nothing new, we all have, it's part of growing older. Yes there are people there that are non-bathers or so it seems but it happens in all large crowds. I just move away. Nothing can spoil my time at York. It was and is my time to enjoy myself, now it is your time. Have fun, life is too short to worry about the small stuff. 

 

Btw I still work, PT but it keeps me with younger people and people in general. 

 

I too had a GREAT YORK!  I went there looking for nothing much and came back with some great deals I couldn't turn down.  I also met up with some good friends, saw the latest that was out there by the manufactures, had a wonderful day with my WIFE by my side, capped off by a nice evening dinner with her. 

 

The only thing I noticed that is a concern is that there are fewer vendors there.  Seems like the BROWN Hall will be moved over to the half empty PURPLE Hall.  This should be  a concern for everyone in the O gauge community.  What is happening, going out of business, to few sales, no interest in YORK, I don't know?  But it seems from my view point is that there is more space to walk around and seeing fewer tables at this event.

I understand all your points! Thanks for commenting on this thread even if it was out of anger. 

My experiences always go well till the end, none the less I enjoyed seeing all the trains. I stopped and talked to some older members and shared what I do for NS and its nice to talk about it and trains. So I never meant for this to come to a Young/Old thread. I know I stated differently above somewhere, but hears the deal we are all in this hobby to enjoy it. So to fuss over an opinion is really is a waste of time. Although giving advice or understanding how I got to my opinion would have been helped. I just wanted everyone to see them times I found to go by. I know there are other ways now, but the times I posted are what I found. For those who helped steer me in the right direction I Thank You! 

I am looking to stop this from possibly happening again. Lets hope it doesn't.

As far as the staff, I should have made it more clear in my case it was only 1 fella in our hall yelling to close up at 4:30. As far as the Announcer, that's great she has been doing that job since 2001 but there is no need to have to talk that harsh, specifically around Thursday between 4:30-5. Again we are here to have fun, I love this hobby, I don't look for a battle every time I come on this forum. This is by far the greatest Forum I have ever come across and I thank everyone of you who contribute to it! 

Also I fault myself for I could have put my opinion in a simpler and more non frustrating form, so I do apologize for that!

 

Again thanks for commenting and getting views across.

Greg R - thanks for proving my point in your post.  Really funny by the way.

To all of you who consider yourselves "younger", where do you think "older" hobbyists come from?  

I just turned 50.  Most of us who are "older" had and/or still have the same challenges you do now.   One friend I just spoke with regarding his layout commented on how his buying was curtailed for a bit due to 2 daughters being in college - one at 36k a year and one at 8k.  Everyone has challenges.

The meet will be whatever the individual makes of it.  Nothing more nothing less.

-Greg

As a 63 year old, TCA since 1990, OGR forum since 04 or 5, there's nothing new here.

I rarely post, but last night wrote something remarkably similar to Putnam's.  I read it and deleted it thinking I'm wasting my time.  After reading Putnam's comments, I decided to add my personal observations.

I can only thank God I'm easily pleased and more patient than ever.  

My wife and I just go Thursday.  Everyone I came into contact with was pleasant  and helpful.  One fellow who sells German & old military figures and war related equipment was so knowledgeable and informative.

We also met some nice folks while soaking up some of the nicest weather I can ever remember at York.

I admit I'm selfish.  I do realize I can't make someone like what I like and I realize younger folks have different challenges than I did.  

I heard the loud PA messages and was surprised the day had gone so fast.  We managed to see most of the halls, but I was most interested in the new stuff in the Orange Hall.  I bought a set I wanted in the first twenty minutes.

I really just like to browse the member halls a bit and spend and hour or two looking at the layouts.  The layouts were great.

We took a break on a bench near the water feature.  Sunned ourselves while I told my wife some stories about my early Yorks with my long deceased father.

Going to York is like Christmas morning.  

As far as the controversial topics... I saw few strollers and wheelchairs, few people on cellphones and no one taking pictures.  

Most folks seemed to be having a good time.  

As far as prices?  I bought a A. Flyer Polar Express set for 275.  And some extra track for a fair price.  Never bought an S gauge set before.  Also picked up some little things, oil, smoke fluid.  

In closing, like everything else, York is what we make it.  It helps when it's sunny in the 70's.

 

Not sure where to go with this thread so I'll just say this.

 

For the last 5 years York has been an escape from a lot of problems that in a week will be for the most part behind me. Or so I hope. The friends I see and new ones I meet have been a very important part of this escape. Buying trains are alway a nice by product. For those that are sweating the little things like PA announcements and misreading the hours can I suggest you re-evaluate the experience. You may still come to the same conclusion you have now and that fine but you may find the York is more than just trains and the little things are just that, little things. 

 

This York I missed a good friend that I met through the forum and personally met at York. Alan Ramsey. Those are the things we should concern ourselves with. 

As I read some of the comments, it's interesting to note that it has been a very long time since anyone has been hungry in this country.  An event and event site that would be hard to duplicate. 

I've been there enough times to say:

Thank You Very much for the effort Eastern TCA

Mike CT. 

 

Originally Posted by NS1719:
Originally Posted by MNCW:

       
NS1719,
  Not sure why you are getting so much crapola from some folks here and 0% help. Never been to York, so I can't offer to help you. Based on your experience, maybe I'm not missing much. Good luck if you go back.
Tom

       


Thanks for the support!

I'm done speaking my opinion after this.  As another supportive member put it we are the future of the hobby!  It's sad to have to say that and grumpy people will be grumpy people,  that's too bad to have a bad attitude. 

To the idiot who says the job will be there when you get back!  Obviously you do not have your priorities straight do you!  For you to say that is ridiculous,  you might be able to get away with it but not everyone can.  Let me tell you something you can be replaced in a minute.  If anyone needs to grow up is you my friend.  Most younger members are at the time in their life,  they can't hope their job will be there when they get back from a toy train show.  Your job is your priority especially if you have a family.

I tell you some people here are unbelievable.

To the member who said to get involved,  ya know I work 3rd shift for NS,  I have a side business and a volunteer fire fighter a officer too.  Let me tell ya my friend you try to find time in my schedule to help volunteer for the TCA. It's easy for some not for all! 

Again it's a simple fix, put the correct times on all notices and be level headed. Unfortunately the level headed part doesn't work for the older generation of the TCA. 

I bet the time issue may be resolved next year!  Lmao!  So I  did my part!  Haha

Cut out the name calling - it shows a complete lack of class.  Calling me an idiot because you can't figure out how to have a life is your problem, not mine.

 

You CAN find time to spend time on your hobbies if you make it a priority.  That's the problem with too many folks - they accept the status quo without taking any action.  If you can be replaced that easily, then you need to find another line of work, or get better at the work you do.

 

 

Originally Posted by gunrunnerjohn:

That's an age-old issue at York, and I doubt it's going to change.  There are actually meet rules about closing up early, but you can see how well they're observed.

 

AFAIK, the only rule is that tableholders are supposed to keep trains on the table until 2pm Saturday.  By then, I'm 500 miles away.  Supposedly, the penalty is to not have a table for the next two Yorks, but I have no idea how well it is enforced.  Friends have told me that you could go bowling in the aisles after noon on Saturday.

NS1719 has made some valid points, as well as some others, about York.  I'm 50, so I believe I'm between the "older generation" and the "younger generation".   That said, as a former coordinator of train shows, announcements over the PA system have to be loud so as to reach the hard of hearing and the hard-headed.  If too loud, there are complaints they are just that; if not loud enough, they weren't heard and the whining overpowers the announcements; bottom line, it's catch-22.  The difference in operating hours info can be fixed easily enough by proofreading and verification.  As for the perpetual early departures, they're going to do it, no matter what or where.  HOWEVER, I can't tell you how many times I've watched folks pack up and leave early, only to see someone adjacent to that now empty table make a BIG sale on the SAME items that WERE on that vacant table.  And justice was served.

Last edited by hoghead

I am 59 and have been going to York for 25 years,both spring and fall, in the first 10 years I left home at 2 in the morning to be there by the opening anthem and covered as much as I could and bought what my budget allowed,and then drove home and went to work the next day. Now with empty nest, I go for 3 days buy less trains and socialize more. York like everything in life will evolve and will reinvent itself, BUT it will go on! You may have less attend, less tables but I guarantee you the amount spent will always be there because the real spenders make up less than half attending in all of its years of existence, the dealer must have what they want and a reasonable price for them to sustain themselves. Plain and simple I LOVE YORK!!!!!!!!!

Just attended my final York but only to meet up with some friends. My observation was that the status quo is very much alive here. A bit of new stuff was displayed (Orange Hall) , many of the larger retail dealers (also Orange Hall) were here and many member dealers seem to be displaying the same stuff for the past five years. I also noticed that the dealers are thinning a bit, especially in the silver and brown halls which were less than 50% full.

I view great challenges ahead for the ED to keep attracting dealers, holding dealer interest and maintaining the gate. Its the only event where the public can show up at the box office only to be told "members only" but you can pay $62 and you can enjoy the privilege of entering. If ED had the only outlet in the world to buy trains this might hold but others like myself have decided that the internet is an easier place to purchase and the prices are often better.

The closed door policy does nothing to attract new people to the hobby and help dealer sales do more business. Dealers are the lifeblood of the event and it should be the ED's obligation to see to it that they provide a maximum opportunity for new sales .

I guess things can stubbornly stay the same, change can be resisted,  and the event eventually be throttled back to a smaller size. If this were my business and anyone showed up at the gate, I would say take their money and let them in. That's the intelligent way for any business to operate. 

Originally Posted by Dennis LaGrua:

 

I guess things can stubbornly stay the same, change can be resisted,  and the event eventually be throttled back to a smaller size. If this were my business and anyone showed up at the gate, I would say take their money and let them in. That's the intelligent way for any business to operate. 

Dennis..........Dennis......... they will never open York to the public. You can ask them to open York to the public on this forum a zillion times and they WILL NEVER do it. If it were your "business" and you opened it to the public you would be out of business in short order.

Last edited by Hudson J1e

Dennis it always seems to me that your opinion of the York Meet, which is perfectly fine, is a view from a consumer's view and not a TCA member's view.  

 

The TCA and it's member meets were never meant to be a hobby shop for the public.  It was created by the members for the members.  Sort of like inviting only your family over for Thanksgiving dinner.  It's the membership that are the lifeblood of the event, not the dealers.  Why do you think dealers attend?  It's because the members support the dealers as well as buying, selling and trading with other members.

 

The TCA and it's events are not a business to operate, it's a club that requires membership.  The public is more than welcome to attend, and the TCA can "take their money and let them in" as you say.  If the dealers want more attendance, they can promote joining the TCA in their shops, have member apps on the counter and promote joining this great model train organization. 

 

Just where would this "public" come from to be admitted to the York Meet anyway?  Anyone who is heavily into the hobby who can get there already goes.  Unless you're talking about the "public" that attends Greenburg Shows or Worlds Greatest Hobby shows who just show up with their kids for a day out for something to do and not actually buy anything.  I don't see the dealers wanting that.  And how many little kids would be interested looking at train boxes on tables??  They want to see action, not inanimate objects in a box.  Ask me how I know this!

 

But then again, I received some breaking news at the Meet today.  I have no idea if it's true or not, but a table owning member in the White Hall told me today while we chatted about trains and the Meet itself, that the Eastern Division leadership is discussing opening the York Meet to the "public" in some fashion in the future.  He didn't say how far into the future, but I guess we should stay tuned.  I'm just reporting what I was unsolicitedly told.

 

Anyway, I had a magnificent time and I can't wait for April's meet!

Originally Posted by Traindiesel:
But then again, I received some breaking news at the Meet today.  I have no idea if it's true or not, but a table owning member in the White Hall told me today while we chatted about trains and the Meet itself, that the Eastern Division leadership is discussing opening the York Meet to the "public" in some fashion in the future.  He didn't say how far into the future,

I heard the same thing from several in the Blue hall on Friday. Don't know if it is the stuff of Urban Legend or if it was actually kicked around by the ED brass but the general thought was the Pa. Governor has the state tax folks looking for money everywhere and no sacred cows were being spared so the tax exempt thing might go the way of the Dodo. I wouldn't put it past him tho, he's promised to veto any state budget that doesn't include an income tax increase.

 

Jerry

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