My thoughts on the "Goodbye Harry Hieke"

Thanks, Steve.  Well done.

My Dad would say - Some people would complain if they were hung with a new rope

If I could “like” this post a thousand times I would.  Thanks for taking the time to set the record straight.

So Steve,

Is Harry Hieke still in business?   If so what is his contact information?

Thank you Steve for clarifying about Harry!  I knew there was more to it than was presented on that forum.  I regret ever joining that forum.  After not logging in for months, I was contacted by a former member of that forum about Harry, and logged in.  It isn’t just the Harry issue.  I was going to comment with Ben, but couldn’t say more than Ben did.   I asked for answers on another hot topic there.  The thread was locked shortly after.  I am not logging in there again.  

@Allegheny posted:

So Steve,

Is Harry Hieke still in business?   If so what is his contact information?

Of course. Harrys_Trains@comcast.net

The truth will always set you free.

Thanks for allowing us to hear the other side of the story Steve and OGR.

The "other" forum has always had a definite "Stepford Wives" quality to it. It's unpleasent in a way you can't quite put your finger on.

Thank you Steve for really clearing the air.

John

Steve, I had no clue as to the whereabouts of several long gone OGR members until this thread. Very interesting. Misery loves company. Harry is better off having hit the eject button.

I’ve been meaning to send him a custom paint project. This has motivated me to pull it to the top of my to-do list.

@Rider Sandman posted:

Steve, I had no clue as to the whereabouts of several long gone OGR members until this thread. Very interesting. Misery loves company. Harry is better off having hit the eject button.

I’ve been meaning to send him a custom paint project. This has motivated me to pull it to the top of my to-do list.

You’ll be happy with the results, just a little bit of a wait.

Steve, Thanks for the illumination. We can always count on you for straight information.  Pat B.

Please send contact me off line  and tell me the name of that forum. I don't want to join that forum let alone one that bash's a extremely talented man like Harry.

I requested to be removed and low and behold I'm named star of the week about two months later, and of course, I was not deleted. I'm tired of the two-sided management. Funny it took about a year for them to get enough nerve to cancel a kid but some adults were harassed to the point of quitting and they did remove them.

P.S. I looked it up, 4 April was when I sent the request. LOL almost 2 months to the day.

What is the MTF forum ?

What is the OGF forum ?

Thanks in advance !!!

@CBQ_Bill posted:

What is the MTF forum ?

Model train forum  https://www.modeltrainforum.com/

What is the OGF forum ?

O-Gauge Forum ( and you don't want to join )

Thanks in advance !!!

This was the first time I had heard about OGF so I decided to lurk a little bit there.  At first I was thinking, Cool, a new forum for me to attend.  After about 15 minutes of reading posts I definitely feel the moderator has a seniority complex.  He seems to edit (delete) posts that do not meet his agenda.  Total hypocrite.

I noticed a few members here post on that forum.   If you agree to posting under his rules, I pity you.

Steve;

I have no stake in this issue, but I would like to comment on Ben’s and your responses.

While I have never dealt with Mr. Hieke, I have seen some of the weathering jobs he has done for you  and Lionel - very detailed and realistic (just not my cup of tea… all my engines look like they just left the factory). On the other hand, I have dealt with your store on a number of occasions and have always found you to be honest, fair, and an admirable businessman. Among other things, I admire how you seem to have hooked up with a few other dealers (Stockyard Express and Public Delivery Track for two), in effect, sharing customers and special runs - that is great for the hobby.

I have met Ben on a couple of visits to the NJ HiRailers. A stand up individual and a great host and I must admire his defense of Mr. Hieke.

With all the things going on in the hobby these days (not to mention the world), I prefer to deal with people (and forums!!!) who I can honestly say I admire. Keep up the good work

Uhmm....interesting thread.  I have had quite a few of you contact me via email and phone this afternoon and evening and with some really eye opening screenshots from OGF.  Some of the principals on that forum are ex-members of this forum for a variety of reasons including but not limited to being banned from OGR.  I decided to join OGF and went through the process with a user name and password.  I set up a special gmail account for that forum and received an activation code which I followed and then I received another email notifying me that my account was activated successfully!  Seemed I had been approved!  Interestingly, I received in the wee hours of this morning another email from the "OGF Team" asking me to tell them what kind of trains I like to operate/model and also asked if I had been a member of OGF before.  I honestly responded and then sent a followup indicating that I am aware that they know who I am and suspected that I would not be approved by Brian..and I would let other forum members know this.  So ... for a short period of time I had an "activated" account but apparently someone decided that a little more info was needed thus the questions.  Needless to say, when I try to login, I get the message "this account is awaiting approval by forum staff". I hope I get approved since it says that all folks are welcome and I certainly would abide by their TOS.

Prior to reading this thread, I knew nothing about the other forums mentioned. However, after reading it, my thought is that we are fortunate to have the OGR Forum and its ethical management and operation. Sometimes we don't sufficiently appreciate the good things that we have. I have spent a lot of time on the OGR Forum since 2016. It is a simple pleasure that I enjoy every day. I would be very unhappy without it.

MELGAR

I am sure Michelangelo had a few rough times meeting a deadline,  but at least there was not social media back in the 1400's to get dumped on by the mob .  Harry is an artist and a legend, and deserves better.   

I like the fact that OGR is a safe place,  with many members freely offering advice and help that makes this hobby so enjoyable.  We need more of that in this world. 

Believe me Bill @CBQ_Bill, Frank Frank Mulligan, Paul Apples55, you don't want to join.  I was warned, and he knows who he is , so I have no one to blame but myself for joining in January of last year.  I was invited to join by a friend, who was highly regarded there, but was burnt recently and supposedly left on his own accord.  I haven't been able to contact him yet for any details.  But back a year and a half ago, I was giving them the benefit of the doubt, like I try to do here.  I also contributed content and some money, which was asked for but never coerced, thinking I could help with expenses of a new forum.  At first, things seemed okay.  However, I did not like the occasional OGR bashing, by folks who apparently couldn't abide by the OGR rules.  It reached a head last fall, and I seldom looked at it since even as a lurker.  Today another friend who cancelled his OGF membership a while back, and has had a lot of work done by Harry, texted me to look at the Harry Heike thread.  I finally logged in to make a comment asking for some answers about another questionable topic, not the Harry one.  The thread was locked without any answers. 

Alan, I hope your membership is accepted.  I've told a couple people I don't plan to log in to OGF again, and maybe tomorrow I will look into cancelling my account.  Since my account name is the same as my name here, it is probably good to not have my name associated with them any more.

Mel, you are so right.  OGR is a real asset to our hobby.  I have been here exactly 10 years this month, and would have had much more trouble transitioning from HO to O gauge if it weren't for the great folks here.  Thank you Alan, the whole staff, and the members!

I thought that some of the "bickering", among other things, get to be too much. But, after what  @OGR CEO-PUBLISHER just mentioned, makes me happy that I've never felt confined by forum rules when attempting to make a response.

As to Mr. Hieke, I think he does great work. Love how he has teamed up with companies like Lionel and I believe Weaver back in the day, as well as now with a store/retailer like Mr. Muffins, forgive me if I failed to list something prominent as I do not know if Mr. Hieke has weathered for other companies or stores.

Once trust is built and reciprocated between myself and another person in this hobby, when entering into an agreement among a myriad of things such as a preorder, repair, warranty repair, transferring payment or product before receiving the other, etc... I always try to be cognitive of things that may throw a wrench in the gears. Age, family commitments, time of year, health, distance, etc... Lord only knows how many times I've had to back burner things in my life because life happens and cause changes in priorities such as spending on certain things, side jobs that don't constitute the majority of income, or others depending on the situation. For both parties to communicate in those situations is crucial.

Unfortunately, none of the above really seems to matter here except to serve as an example of the opposite of what happened with OGF and Mr. Hieke.

I have no reason to doubt @MrMuffin'sTrains or the facts that have been posted, so I assume:

Classic case of passing the buck by a person who communicates poorly- IMO . I don't know the specifics, i.e. was there a date promised to the customers? but guess is the forum moderator fielded questions from customers and "informed them",  Mr. Hieke would likely only be in contact with the buyers wanting something customized. Anyway, OGF mod, in communicating with the buyers, most likely exaggerated or blindly promised regarding the time all units would be finished. If he thought customizing would start in August but it didn't until Thanksgiving, obviously somewhere along the way he should've said there was a delay, but maybe he didn't or maybe he didn't check in with Harry for 3 months? What did he tell his customers at those times?

Thank you to Mr. Muffin for the other side of the story.  I'm glad Harry's side got told. It was needed to be said but I suspect your welcome thread is short lived.

I would caution this forum though that it's policy has always been not to discuss other forums and their policies.  I think it has served this forum very well even though this forum has been a sore subject on others forums for some.  I think Alan and the staff have shown some pretty good restraint on rarely commenting when they are the subject of some negative comments.  I have avoided these types of threads and discouraged these types of threads on other forums I belong or belonged to.  It doesn't do much except to create a back and forth rhetoric  that really doesn't make our hobby look good.

Again I think Steve posting needed to be done to get the other side of the story but I encourage our membership not to fall into the all too common trap of complaining about other forums and their business.  It's really not worth the time.  I think most people who are on a forum can see the agenda whether is train talk, trash talk, or what have you.  Take the advice of others experience but I would say that needs to be done off line.

Just my 2 cents.

@MartyE posted:

Thank you to Mr. Muffin for the other side of the story.  I'm glad Harry's side got told. It was needed to be said but I suspect your welcome thread is short lived.

I would caution this forum though that it's policy has always been not to discuss other forums and their policies.  I think it has served this forum very well even though this forum has been a sore subject on others forums for some.  I think Alan and the staff have shown some pretty good restraint on rarely commenting when they are the subject of some negative comments.  I have avoided these types of threads and discouraged these types of threads on other forums I belong or belonged to.  It doesn't do much except to create a back and forth rhetoric  that really doesn't make our hobby look good.

Again I think Steve posting needed to be done to get the other side of the story but I encourage our membership not to fall into the all too common trap of complaining about other forums and their business.  It's really not worth the time.  I think most people who are on a forum can see the agenda whether is train talk, trash talk, or what have you.  Take the advice of others experience but I would say that needs to be done off line.

Just my 2 cents.

Marty ... I don't disagree with you as far as our general policy of not discussing other forums and what is going on within their ranks.  HOWEVER, the sheer volume of emails that we received and links to the thread on OGF as well as quite a few phone calls led to the decision to allow Steve to post "the rest of the story" here since he was not allowed to do so by the "OGF Team".  Since OGF and its "team" decided to have product produced for its "customers/members", we see them like any other manufacturer/provider therefore, just like the numerous threads that get posted here on OGR concerning problems with product from the various manufacturers and because of the history of how the "team" conducts itself which negatively affects others in the hobby, I believe in this case, this thread is appropriate.  I will let it stay open a little while longer and then likely close it.

@OGR CEO-PUBLISHER posted:

Marty ... I don't disagree with you as far as our general policy of not discussing other forums and what is going on within their ranks.  HOWEVER, the sheer volume of emails that we received and links to the thread on OGF as well as quite a few phone calls led to the decision to allow Steve to post "the rest of the story" here since he was not allowed to do so by the "OGF Team".  Since OGF and its "team" decided to have product produced for its "customers/members", we see them like any other manufacturer/provider therefore, just like the numerous threads that get posted here on OGR concerning problems with product from the various manufacturers and because of the history of how the "team" conducts itself which negatively affects others in the hobby, I believe in this case, this thread is appropriate.  I will let it stay open a little while longer and then likely close it.

Alan don't get me wrong I 100% agree with letting Steve post the rest of the story given Harry didn't get his voice heard.  I just really think OGR's policy works well and other than needing to have these few posts to get that story I am glad OGR has this policy.

Thanks Alan for letting Steve give us the flip side.

I saw this last night and really thought I was overtired. I didn't realize it was another forum that was being discussed. Regardless, my behind stocks with this forum. Yes I do pop on FB groups, but those are not this forum like this other forum isn't. I'll re-read and thanks to Steve for bringing this up. If Harry is 75 and still doing what he loves to do, God bless him. I hope I get there as well.

I have never heard of OGF till now. When I first read this I thought OGF was  a code so this thread could be posted here.

Thankyou Mr Muffin for the other side of the story.  Like one great 765 engineer once said to me. There's always to sides to every story.

Good to have a free and open discussion.  No forum is without its quirks and customs.  Whoever owns the forum sets the rules .  That's the way it is in our society.  Freedom of speech is only guaranteed in that  the government cannot dictate the rules.  Private enterprises can and should do so.  No company wants people undermining their business or enterprise.  The OGF prides itself and advertises itself as open to all civil discussion.  This is clearly not true, so take what is written with a grain of salt.

There is another forum? I had no idea but by the looks of it I'll continue to occasionally post here and be happy.

I used Harry one time and was very happy with the results. Harry custom painted and weathered my Lionel Legacy K4. See the results in the picture. I would recommend Harry based off my experience.

As others have mentioned, I never heard of this place until I read this thread. In fact, I read through it twice to make sure I was getting everything straight.

Took a quick visit to "OGF." It took me all of five minutes to see all I needed to see (especially avatars of some former members here  ).

Two words: HARD PASS.

@OGR CEO-PUBLISHER posted:

Uhmm....interesting thread.  I have had quite a few of you contact me via email and phone this afternoon and evening and with some really eye opening screenshots from OGF.  Some of the principals on that forum are ex-members of this forum for a variety of reasons including but not limited to being banned from OGR.  I decided to join OGF and went through the process with a user name and password.  I set up a special gmail account for that forum and received an activation code which I followed and then I received another email notifying me that my account was activated successfully!  Seemed I had been approved!  Interestingly, I received in the wee hours of this morning another email from the "OGF Team" asking me to tell them what kind of trains I like to operate/model and also asked if I had been a member of OGF before.  I honestly responded and then sent a followup indicating that I am aware that they know who I am and suspected that I would not be approved by Brian..and I would let other forum members know this.  So ... for a short period of time I had an "activated" account but apparently someone decided that a little more info was needed thus the questions.  Needless to say, when I try to login, I get the message "this account is awaiting approval by forum staff". I hope I get approved since it says that all folks are welcome and I certainly would abide by their TOS.

You had better luck than me.  There was a thread there trashing me, actually several.  I attempted to join, but I was rejected.  Since I never posted, it was clearly not for violating their terms of service, I never had the chance to violate them.   FWIW, that clearly indicates the "all folks are welcome" is a fantasy.  They also say they they invite dissenting opinions, another fiction.  No loss, I don't want to be associated with a place like that anyway!

All entities are defined by Leadership...  we are in very *good* hands.

That forum started with great potential, open minds, free to speak your piece, then he who must not be named began to openly attack its members. Then he locks the post so no one can reply to his lies.  His true colors have been hoisted up the flagpole for all to see.

Hi GUYZ,

  Yes I was part of the OGF until recently being banned there.  I have done a weekly thread called Whistle Stop Wednesday Videos, of a quick review of engines that I own and have some fun narrating it.  I was banned telling the truth in which the management could not own up to.  It was always someone else’s fault.  This is suppose to be a fun hobby and there is not suppose to be drama in toy trains.  I believe this is a brotherhood of people to enjoy this hobby and try are best to keep it alive and well. No DRAMA just fun and if we can help someone enjoy and learn from doing it themselves we are in a better place.  

PS, Wondering if I can post my Whistle Stop Wednesday Videos, here at OGR?

Well as Mr. Muffin mentioned yesterday, Harry's birthday was two days ago and all he got was flack.  Happy Birthday Harry and keep up the good work!!

Thank you to @OGR CEO-PUBLISHER and your team for running a nice forum and for your continued support and encouragement to our hobby!

@laz1957 posted:

PS, Wondering if I can post my Whistle Stop Wednesday Videos, here at OGR?

@OGR CEO-PUBLISHER

Laz, I've tagged Alan above so he can see your request.  I'm sure they would love to have Whistle Stop Wednesday posted on OGR.  I'll let Alan direct you as to where would be the best subforum for posting it.

@OGR CEO-PUBLISHER posted:

I hope I get approved since it says that all folks are welcome and I certainly would abide by their TOS.

Gee, maybe I should sign-up, too!

On second thought. . . nope, I'm sure I would be denied. Takes a while for folks unfamiliar with the "history" to catch-on, and that is totally understandable, but I think that most eventually do.