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Recently fellow OGRR forum member Roundhouse Bill conducted an interview with representatives from MTH and Lionel concerning the status and future of the S gauge product line from both manufacturers.

The interview was published in the July/August 2015 issue. I will not reproduce any of the interview here as it is the copyrighted property of the publisher. If you have not read the article I suggest you buy or borrow (like I did) a copy as it is in my view very thorough and does shed new light on the future of our chosen scale of trains.

In short, I found the article terrific.

Here are my conclusions about the responses of the representatives.

MTH--

1. Is pleased with the response to date of its currently released products.

2. Plans to issue new versions (paint schemes) of freight cars and engines from original SHS tooling.

3. Will issue a new multi-year catalog after currently catalogued items have been released.

4. Will offer "scale"  products in quantities proportionate to the % of "scale" operators in the S gauge world.

5. Will issue "S"  sized buildings and structures from stocks of those in the "O" product lines if appropriately sized.

6. Explained the reason for the delay of delivery of engines catalogued in 2013...r/c coupler problems.

7. Understands that layouts built from currently available track stock and anticipated stock (turnouts) are limited in     scope. Projects that additional expansion of the track product line is likely.

8. Projects that future expansion of the product line will be based/weighted on customer response (purchases).

9. Will possibly consider attending "S" events but more likely will continue to display product at multi-gauge events.

10. Plans to attract new customers to "S" with ready to run sets with an included "simple" remote control allowing         access to "command mode" without the need to buy the full DCS system. (This is also currently done in many           entry level O gauge sets)

11. Will not look solely to other product lines for ideas for possible future "S" releases.

 

LIONEL:

1. Overall it appears that Lionel is heavily weighing future product on the success of the Flyer Chief releases.

2. Has scaled back Legacy releases in favor of Flyer Chief releases.

3. Was not overtly positive about future "scale" releases but is "considering" possible "modern" car releases.

4. Future track offerings will remain in the Fastrack line of track.

5. Doesn't plan to issue Legacy controlled accessories but will consider "S" accessories similar to "O" Plug 'n Play.

6. Plans to offer the Polar Express set in "S" gauge on a continuing basis.

7. Has "discussed" the addition of a smaller steam or switcher engine.

8. Will probably continue to attend "Multi-Gauge" events that allow them to showcase all product lines.

9. Will possibly offer future "S" ready to run sets when the track system is fully implemented and available.

 

Comparing apples and apples I viewed the MTH responses to Bill's questions as a little more revealing than the Lionel responses. 

Both manufacturers mostly predict future possible product release on customer acceptance of current product.

To me that translates into "If you buy it we will build it".

What I would really like to see is "If we catalogue it will you order it?"

Lack of orders on a product would rightly call for its deletion in the product line.

However lack of orders for a known problematic item (like the proposed scale wheelset/trucks on the Lionel 57' reefers) should not constitute a justification for deletion of the product in total.

In the case of the 57' reefers had they been catalogued with the revised high rail trucks i believe they would have had a positive response and many preorders.

 

Again I suggest you obtain a copy of the interview and form your own conclusions.

All of the above are MY conclusions.

 

Mark

 

 

 

Last edited by banjoflyer
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Thanks for your summary, Mark.  I don't know when I'll be able to pick up a copy.
 
Comments embedded:
 
Originally Posted by banjoflyer:

 

Here are my conclusions about the responses of the representatives.

MTH--

1. Is pleased with the response to date of its currently released products.

Good to hear.

2. Plans to issue new versions (paint schemes) of freight cars and engines from original SHS tooling.

To be expected, I don't think anyone wants only previous SHS roadnames released.

3. Will issue a new multi-year catalog after currently catalogued items have been released.

At this point, I think the only thing we're waiting on is the F3's and turnouts.

4. Will offer "scale"  products in quantities proportionate to the % of "scale" operators in the S gauge world.

The best possible action given MTH isn't following the SHS example.

5. Will issue "S"  sized buildings and structures from stocks of those in the "O" product lines if appropriately sized.

The large brick depot and farm houses work pretty well for S.

6. Explained the reason for the delay of delivery of engines catalogued in 2013...r/c coupler problems.

*sigh*  The world was much simpler when the choices were only AC or DC...

7. Understands that layouts built from currently available track stock and anticipated stock (turnouts) are limited in scope. Projects that additional expansion of the track product line is likely.

Can't run trains without track, particularly with the limited options in S.

8. Projects that future expansion of the product line will be based/weighted on customer response (purchases).

I guess that's to be expected, but I think it would be a very positive shake-up if at least one new car was tossed into the mix.

9. Will possibly consider attending "S" events but more likely will continue to display product at multi-gauge events.

Maybe have someone come in disguise and get a feel for the market without the static from the other scales???

10. Plans to attract new customers to "S" with ready to run sets with an included "simple" remote control allowing access to "command mode" without the need to buy the full DCS system. (This is also currently done in many entry level O gauge sets)

I would expect a stripped-down (less detailed and hirail only) F3 would be the key.

11. Will not look solely to other product lines for ideas for possible future "S" releases.

There's a lot of good stuff in their other scale lines that would look awfully nice in S.

 

LIONEL:

1. Overall it appears that Lionel is heavily weighing future product on the success of the Flyer Chief releases.

That would be my guess given the last catalog.

2. Has scaled back Legacy releases in favor of Flyer Chief releases.

Not surprising.  If it gets more newbies into S, I'm all for it.

3. Was not overtly positive about future "scale" releases but is "considering" possible "modern" car releases.

Maybe start with the 57' mechanical reefer and address that weird bolster on the trucks...

4. Future track offerings will remain in the Fastrack line of track.

Makes sense, as long as delivery isn't scheduled for the 12th of never.

5. Doesn't plan to issue Legacy controlled accessories but will consider "S" accessories similar to "O" Plug 'n Play.

No opinion.

6. Plans to offer the Polar Express set in "S" gauge on a continuing basis.

That will probably only be viable as long as supplementary track  (turnouts, crossings, etc.) and accessories are readily available .

7. Has "discussed" the addition of a smaller steam or switcher engine.

Good idea.

8. Will probably continue to attend "Multi-Gauge" events that allow them to showcase all product lines.

See my MTH response.

9. Will possibly offer future "S" ready to run sets when the track system is fully implemented and available.

Probably also based on #7.

 

Comparing apples and apples I viewed the MTH responses to Bill's questions as a little more revealing than the Lionel responses. 

Both manufacturers mostly predict future possible product release on customer acceptance of current product.

Part of acceptance is delivering product in a reasonable amount of time.

To me that translates into "If you buy it we will build it".

What I would really like to see is "If we catalogue it will you order it?"

Lack of orders on a product would rightly call for its deletion in the product line.

However lack of orders for a known problematic item (like the proposed scale wheelset/trucks on the Lionel 57' reefers) should not constitute a justification for deletion of the product in total.

If someone is going to cancel something, don't wait until the just before the scheduled delivery date to announce it.  Or possibly extend the cut-off date.

In the case of the 57' reefers had they been catalogued with the revised high rail trucks i believe they would have had a positive response and many preorders.

I fully expected the 57' reefers to come with the revised hirail trucks, which I was going to change out anyway for scalification. 

 

Conspiracy theory: I can't help but wonder if cancelling the reefers at the 11th hour was an effort to show the rag-tag S market who's boss.

 

Rusty

 

Again I suggest you obtain a copy of the interview and form your own conclusions.

All of the above are MY conclusions.

 

Mark

 

 

 

 

Last edited by Rusty Traque

Mark,

 

I could not agree more with your comment

 

"However lack of orders for a known problematic item (like the proposed scale wheelset/trucks on the Lionel 57' reefers) should not constitute a justification for deletion of the product in total.

In the case of the 57' reefers had they been catalogued with the revised high rail trucks i believe they would have had a positive response and many preorders"

 

Had Lionel addressed the Truck issue they would have received a significantly more pre-orders.  For some reason they are in denial about that being the cause of the order failure.

 

To win back the faith of their "S" customers they should re-list it in the next catalog.

 

--Rocco--

Aghhhhh...the 57' reefers, can't stand flipping through the 2014 AF catalog - so sad.  

 

Lionel - catalog the 57' reefers again, put in there "wheels actually work on track" and put "build to order" in print next to the picture and then see what happens.  I don't know what the cost of marketing this items is, but I can't imagine it cost to much to throw that baited line back out there to see if we bite. If "we" follow through with orders wonderful, cut the tools and build the car, if we don't - then people like me should shut up about it.  

 

I am thinking about dropping an email to menards Mark, the stores by me have the PE sets in O, G and the PE "little lines". Why not S too?  Without the proper placement of the AF PE set it will fail to bring us the needed attention and growth the PE set did to O (even it its just a fraction of the new people the O gauge set brought into the hobby). 

 

Ben

Originally Posted by NotInWI:
I am thinking about dropping an email to menards Mark, the stores by me have the PE sets in O, G and the PE "little lines". Why not S too?  Without the proper placement of the AF PE set it will fail to bring us the needed attention and growth the PE set did to O (even it its just a fraction of the new people the O gauge set brought into the hobby). 

 

Ben

Ben, I'm sad to say that I've "been there, done that" already.  When he first started posting there deals on the OGR forum I contacted him about doing some things in S, too.  The response was that they were not interested in S.

 

On the other hand, if you and other people here also contacted them, maybe they would see that there is a greater interest than just one person.  That might be enough to get them to at least dip their feet in the S waters! 

 

I am especially interested in some of the built-up lighted buildings they have released.  I really think they are super.

 

Mike A.

 

Edit: Here's one of the first threads by Mark.  Look for his reply on March 10, 11:05 AM.  You will see he left the door open so I suggest others here start to contact him and post on their sneak peeks.  Maybe they will start to listen.  Besides the buildings and rolling stock, we could also use some of those nice vehicles in 1:64th.  I also love their German Shepard dog!

Last edited by Mikeaa

"and put "build to order" in print next to the picture and then see what happens.  I don't know what the cost of marketing this items is, but I can't imagine it cost to much to throw that baited line back out there to see if we bite. If "we" follow through with orders wonderful, cut the tools and build the car, if we don't - then people like me should shut up about it."

 

   If we have to put up the money to get them built we should get some stock in the company for our trouble. How many other business's expect their customer to bankroll them? I view Lionel and MTH as non players in S scale till they decide to actually do something. I've got money to spend so American Models and other small manufacturers along with used stuff will have to take it. .....DaveB 

 

Menards was not mentioned in the review, but both companies were asked what they planed to do to grow S to new people.  Exposure is what it's about so I did not feel it was out of context or off topic. Also the 57' reefers were mentioned in the article so my comments there are on point. 

Daveb - the O gaugers are having to play the preorder game and like it or not that's what Lionel is going to continue to do...and if that's what it takes to get challengers, y3s, u33s and the like made in the future then that's what we have to consider doing. It's not like anyone else is dumping money into the quick growth of S gauge engines of the detail like lionel has been the past 5 years.

Ben
Originally Posted by daveb:

 

   If we have to put up the money to get them built we should get some stock in the company for our trouble.

Exactly when has Lionel (or MTH for that matter) asked for deposits or payment in full before production began?

 

I didn't realize Ford should have given me stock when I ordered my BTO Escape seven years ago or IHOP when I order breakfast...

 

Rusty

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