Mystery I.C.R.R. 'Mountain' 4-8-2 - New pics

I really think an underside shot might help!         cTr....( Choose the Right )

Stephen Bloy posted:

I really think an underside shot might help!         cTr....( Choose the Right )

Indeed.

Yes - essential if you want an ID.  My guess at this point is Overland USRA, seriously modified.  I have a tender body from one; I will check it.

Wonder if it might be a re-built USRA heavy 4-8-2, which was imported by Pacific Fast Mail in the 1970's? This IC 4-8-2 weighed 362,000 lbs; the USRA heavy 4-8-2 weighed 350,000 lbs. Same approximate boiler contour.  Would have required a lot of surgery to produce the IC 4-8-2.  Maybe/probably scratchbuilt, but employing many commercially available parts.

It's nice, whatever it is.

My Overland tender is a dead ringer, except for trucks and that ladder to the coal pile.  Photos soon.

bob2 posted:

Yes - essential if you want an ID.  My guess at this point is Overland USRA, seriously modified.  I have a tender body from one; I will check it.

Overland might be a good guess. It looks to be of recent vintage, because the workmanship is light years ahead of the old CRAP that gets posted here. I would try and contact Brian Marsh and send him an image to see if Overland did it. You should be able to get his E-mail from the Overland website, which is still around as far as I know!

Simon

Please.  Doorstops is the polite term, and some of us value seeing the older stuff.

Here is one quick shot of the Overland Mountain tender.  I cleaned it up a bit - previous owner had rattle-canned it green.  Locomotive got converted to C&O, so I got the leftovers.

While NOT versed in O scale brass, About what time period did Brass importers make holes for sound system speakers?

For 3 rail ROWI [which was made by Ajin of Korea] had theirs in the late 1980's

bob2 posted:

Please.  Doorstops is the polite term, and some of us value seeing the older stuff.

Some of us don't. One man's doorstop is another man's crap. If "politeness"  was truly a factor, we wouldn't be posting outside 3rd rail stuff on the 2 rail forum.

Simon

Well it is your choice.  Skip any posts about Icken, Scale Craft, Lobaugh, Lenoir, or scratchbuilt.  I for one would miss it if such posts were forbidden

bob2 posted:

Well it is your choice.  Skip any posts about Icken, Scale Craft, Lobaugh, Lenoir, or scratchbuilt.  I for one would miss it if such posts were forbidden

It's easy. If it is 2 rail post it here. If it is 3 rail (center rail or outside) post it on the 3 rail forum. I don't post two rail topics on the 3 rail forum! Tell me why I should have to skip 3 rail posts in the 2 rail forum? You're trying to twist things to YOUR agenda.

Simon

Simon Winter posted:

bob2 posted:

Well it is your choice.  Skip any posts about Icken, Scale Craft, Lobaugh, Lenoir, or scratchbuilt.  I for one would miss it if such posts were forbidden

It's easy. If it is 2 rail post it here. If it is 3 rail (center rail or outside) post it on the 3 rail forum. I don't post two rail topics on the 3 rail forum! Tell me why I should have to skip 3 rail posts in the 2 rail forum? You're trying to twist things to YOUR agenda.

Simon

Sorry, outside 3rd rail topics do not belong in the 3 rail forum.  Outside 3rd rail is the ancestor to current day two operations.

Opinion based heavily on fact.

ecd15 posted:

Simon Winter posted:

bob2 posted:

Well it is your choice.  Skip any posts about Icken, Scale Craft, Lobaugh, Lenoir, or scratchbuilt.  I for one would miss it if such posts were forbidden

It's easy. If it is 2 rail post it here. If it is 3 rail (center rail or outside) post it on the 3 rail forum. I don't post two rail topics on the 3 rail forum! Tell me why I should have to skip 3 rail posts in the 2 rail forum? You're trying to twist things to YOUR agenda.

Simon

Sorry, outside 3rd rail topics do not belong in the 3 rail forum.  Outside 3rd rail is the ancestor to current day two operations.

Opinion based heavily on fact.

The FACT is there are 3 rails, count 'em. Next you're going to say stud rail isn't 3 rail. Blacken the middle rail, make it from HO rail, do everything you can to disguise it, there are still 3 rails, that's the FACT. The stuff is NOT called "Outside 2 Rail".

Sorry.  I thought you were denigrating the models Corey and I are posting.  Sure - outside third is three rail.  Most O Scalers would allow that Icken E6 to be posted here, rather than on the 3-rail scale forum.  You are entitled to your opinion about what is junk, and certainly your claim that outside third is not two rail is valid.

But understand, when you call what others consider worthy of collecting "junk" you may be eliciting responses.

ECD15 is exactly right - outside 3rd rail is the scale predecessor to today's O Scale 2 rail. The predecessor of today's 3 rail is Lionel 3 rail. Look at the rollers and flanges !!

Don't think contacting Overland re this locomotive would produce much of value. Overland did USRA 2-8-2's, light & heavy, but no USRA 4-8-2's. The USRA heavy 4-8-2 was done by PFM. It was kind of an outlier, as it just popped up out of no-where in the 1970's. 

There seems to be some conjecture elsewhere on this forum that what I have is a Toby/Pacific Fast Mail 4-8-2. I didn’t post an enquiry on any other topic but ran across some opinion that this was made in Japan by Toby and was imported by PFM as an unpainted brass model. One fellow posted a photo of the underside of his 4-8-2 which appears identical to mine. Would it be reasonable to assume mine is a Toby/PFM that was customized, painted, and I.C.R.R. decals and markings applied by an expert? Cheers! —Bob

Generally, if it walks like a duck and quacks it probably is a duck. If all things look the same, it likely is PFM. Your model, your call. I generally don't think of PFM because they did mostly HO, but they certainly did the quality of workmanship your model exhibits.

Simon

bob2 posted:

Sorry.  I thought you were denigrating the models Corey and I are posting.  Sure - outside third is three rail.  Most O Scalers would allow that Icken E6 to be posted here, rather than on the 3-rail scale forum.  You are entitled to your opinion about what is junk, and certainly your claim that outside third is not two rail is valid.

But understand, when you call what others consider worthy of collecting "junk" you may be eliciting responses.

No apology necessary Bob. Just a lively discussion, and no they certainly are NOT all junk.......but some (in my opinion) are.

Simon