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The family and I are hoping to chase the Queen of steam up from Roanoke...

What route will she be taking to Strasburg? We are hoping to chase her up to Strasburg from the PA/MA Border once she reaches it. Will she go up to Harrisburg/Enola for a service stop and a possible spin on the turntable? What day will she leave and what day will she arrive? I think it would be quite the experience to chase her up on lines she may never have been on. Also, will she have a PTC waiver, or will she have a diesel with her (Maybe 8103?)
Thanks! -NS6770Fan.

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Almost all the answers you want are HERE.

There is essentially only one route from Roanoke to the Strasburg Railroad. Northeast out of Roanoke via Winchester,  Hagerstown, Harrisburg, Lancaster and Leaman Place where they interchange with the Strasburg. They will not publicize the deadhead dates.

I don't think any main line steam locomotive has had PTC equipment installed yet. There is still discussion going on with the FRA as to the interpretation of the PTC rules as they pertain to steam locomotives. It is very likely that a PTC-equipped diesel will be in the lead on the deadhead move.

There would be no need for "...a possible spin on the turntable..." in Harrisburg. She will already be facing the right direction, plus there are wyes on each end of the Rockville Bridge. If they do need to turn the engine for some reason, a wye is a LOT quicker, easier and safer to use than a turntable.

Last edited by Rich Melvin
Rich Melvin posted:

“No Winchester, eh? I guess I should have put my glasses on when I looked at the map.

As for the bridge clearances, I haven't a clue about that.”

Rich, 

The NS H-line (Shenandoah Valley Line) passes about 15 miles east of Winchester through Berryville.

CSX has a former B&O Route that runs From Harper’s Ferry into Winchester that crosses NS at a diamond in Charlestown. CSX continues south toward Strasburg, Va (VA not PA!) where it meets with the NS B-line (former Southern railway), with the B-Line crossing the H-line at Riverton Junction at Front Royal, VA. 

The Winchester & Western (recently sold) also comes down to Winchester from Hagerstown on an old PRR line.  

To the original poster’s comments - there are 2 possible routes from Roanoke to Front Royal, VA - while from Front Royal to Harrisburg is essentially the same:

1) H-line direct from Roanoke to Front Royal/Riverton Junction (Former N&W Shenandoah Valley line): This route would be the shortest and is via Shenandoah and Waynesboro. However, I’ve heard from some folks I respect that either the axle loading or clearances with a J are a problem on this line, but I’m not 100% certain. The N&W never operated Js on this line to the best of my knowledge  - instead they used K2 and K2a Class 4-8-2s - And I have never seen a photo of a J on this line either in regular or excursion service except for turning at Riverton Junction. But I have heard of some excursion trips that went up part of the line, as well as NKP 759 operating this line in 1971. Conversely though, today’s six axle locomotives are tipping the scales at up to 265 tons and they are used regularly on this line. The line is relatively light traffic with 2 intermodals (201/202), 2 Mixed freights (15T/16T), empty coal trains as needed, a few locals out of Roanke and Shenandoah, and the occasional chicken feed train to Harrisonburg via Shenandoah. Crew availability might be an issue. 

If 611 were to run up this way, a photograph at Solitude and natural bridge would be absolutely amazing.

2) N-line (former N&W mainline) to Lynchburg, Take the Wye at Kinney Yard to the Wye at Montview yard and on to Southern Main, passing through Kemper Street and over the James River Viaduct. Northward through Charlottesville (maybe pausing to say hi to Wick) and taking the B-line at Manassas west to Riverton Junction where they would go north on the H-line towards Hagerstown.   It may sound odd to Route them this way but there is generally good crew availability on the Southern side and 611 has run this route many many times on ferry and excursion trips. It’s also the route Amtrak takes from Roanoke except for the B-line portion of course. 

North of Riverton Junction it will be the H-line to Hagerstown, old PRR to the Lurgan branch to Harrisburg, take the Wye at CP Capital north past Harris tower up to and crossing over Rockville Viaduct heading west, turn south through Enola yard and along the Port Road across Shocks Mill Viaduct to Columbia, Pa where they’ll get on the Dillerville Secondary at CP Cola and run up to Dillerville Yard (Now the Craig Lewis Yard) at Lancaster, PA. Wait at CP Cork to get on Amtrak and then over to Paradise for the interchange.  This route avoids all the high level platforms on Amtrak as well. 

For the return trip, they will have to go reverse or be towed to enola and spun on the turntable there to be facing forward for the rest of the journey.  

My apologies for the lengthy post. 

Last edited by M J Breen

Excellent post. I would like to add a couple things. As far as us "locals" are aware, there has been one documented move of a J to Shenandoah. I don't know details, but I believe it was a test and was never repeated. Second, a Roanoke/Lynchburg/Manassasas/Riverton/Hagerstown routing would get around all the trestles EXCEPT Shepherdstown. Would still have to cross that one. Will be interesting to see how this will pan out.

Dave Albright posted:

 As far as us "locals" are aware, there has been one documented move of a J to Shenandoah. I don't know details, but I believe it was a test and was never repeated. 

It is my understanding that the K2a for that run had problems and the only loco left to take its place was a J, #606, I believe. It was taken off at Shenandoah.

I've seen and ridden behind 611 many times over the years and plan to see it again at Strasburg.  Our good fortune is that it will be there on the same weekend as the October 12th Eastern PA 2 rail O scale Train Show held at the Strasburg firehouse.  With 611 in town I expect that show will have record attendance.  Several questions :

Will 611 move under steam to Strasburg or being towed dead?

If 611 is moving under steam will it be accompanies by a diesel?

If with a diesel and under steam will 611be on the point?

With no ticketed passengers riding behind her on the run from Roanoke to Strasburg issues associated with not having passenger liability insurance (through Amtrak) may be partially mitigated.

Last edited by Keystoned Ed
Keystoned Ed posted:

I've seen and ridden behind 611 many times over the years and plan to see it again at Strasburg.  Our good fortune is that it will be there on the same weekend as the October 12th Eastern PA 2 rail O scale Train Show held at the Strasburg firehouse.  With 611 in town I expect that show will have record attendance.  Several questions :

Will 611 move under steam to Strasburg or being towed dead?

It must be under steam, as that is the only way the valves and pistons receive lubrication, i.e. from the valve oil sprayed into the steam flow.

If 611 is moving under steam will it be accompanies by a diesel?

Most likely, as I do not think that 611 has had PTC equipment installed.

If with a diesel and under steam will 611be on the point?

Probably not, as the diesel with PTC must be "controlling" and in the lead.

With no ticketed passengers riding behind her on the run from Roanoke to Strasburg issues associated with not having passenger liability insurance (through Amtrak) may be partially mitigated.

Norfolk Souther does not provide liability insurance either, thus no "passengers" at all. There may be "invited guests", however.

 

Big Jim posted:
Dave Albright posted:

 As far as us "locals" are aware, there has been one documented move of a J to Shenandoah. I don't know details, but I believe it was a test and was never repeated. 

It is my understanding that the K2a for that run had problems and the only loco left to take its place was a J, #606, I believe. It was taken off at Shenandoah.

That would make sense. Thank you!

NS6770Fan posted:
NKP Muncie posted:

I believe the annual inspection is being done at Strasburg this month.

David

This month? You mean next month when she comes up?

No he means this month - there is a firing up Event on August 17th at the VMT.  

“The Virginia Museum of Transportation announces The FIRE-UP 611 Experience: Fire-Up 611 Program for August 17th in preparation of the departure of the N&W Class J 611 for the Strasburg Rail Road, Strasburg, PA.  “A Reunion of Steam” September – October 2019. “

 

Link: https://www.showclix.com/event...-august-17th/listing

Only tangentially related to this discussion, but I remembered a strange entry on page 327 of a Penn Central Eastern Region Employee Timetable #5, in effect 4:01 A.M. Sunday , May 17, 1970.

Under "Speeds" for the Harrisburg Division, Winchester Secondary Track are the following entries:

 N&WRR Class J engines or PM Passenger cars:

 Bridge 82.13 south of Williamsport -----15

 Bridge 92.56 north of Martinsburg ----- 20"

I suppose this was a carryover that was never edited out from PRR timetables from the steam era.

I can't think of any other reason it would be in a 1970 PC Timetable.

Also, was there a reason why N&W Js would have been cleared to operate on the PRR's Winchester Secondary?

Somewhere in another Penn Central document I recall reading something about N&WRR Class J engines being prohibited from turning on the Hagerstown wye, but I'll be darned if I can find it right now.

I'm also curious about the "PM Passenger Cars". I wonder if that means Pere Marquette or if PM is a class designation or what?

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Is the reason why no mainline excursions in 2018 and 2019 is because neither NS or Amtrak want to provide liability insurance coverage? Are Squires and Anderson against public excursions? Last year Amtrak banned most excursions. At least we had Wick for a while who supported them. Can steam excursions or even diesel excursions work on a railroad with PSR? The whole point of PSR is to cut costs and excursions cost money.

Last edited by Robert K
Nick Chillianis posted:

Only tangentially related to this discussion, but I remembered a strange entry on page 327 of a Penn Central Eastern Region Employee Timetable #5, in effect 4:01 A.M. Sunday , May 17, 1970.

Under "Speeds" for the Harrisburg Division, Winchester Secondary Track are the following entries:

 N&WRR Class J engines or PM Passenger cars:

 Bridge 82.13 south of Williamsport -----15

 Bridge 92.56 north of Martinsburg ----- 20"

I suppose this was a carryover that was never edited out from PRR timetables from the steam era.

 

Good Catch, Nick.  Who would have imagined . . . ?

I’m assuming the locomotive will leave either the 18th or 19th after the Fireup? Also, is there a high chance of the locomotive going up through Hagerstown and through Greencastle Area? I believe I have one of the lines mapped out that runs from Hagerstown to Lemoyne area. I will post the link to the line and see if it is one of the possible lines.

I was there today, and here's what happened: a southbound broke a coupler knuckle (on or near the locomotive, I heard) roughly halfway between Vesuvius and Buena Vista, VA.  That trapped another southbound in Vesuvius, fouling state Rt. 56 (where Link took his shot with the general store, gas pump, car, and passing streamlined K).  611's train (or should I say the train that included 611), waiting in Buena Vista for the others to clear, became trapped and is still there according to other posts.  It sounds like they'll be lucky if they make it to Shenandoah tonight, but anybody who can be there should be rewarded with some nice photos, as the town is in a very scenic setting.  The route from there to Front Royal is packed with high trestles - wish I could be there tomorrow.

Last edited by 49Lionel

Thanks NS Fan.  I was hoping it would be coming right up the Susquehanna but no such luck.  Depending on the timing I might be able to catch her from the Amtrak platform in Elizabethtown.  My mom lives in a retirement community adjacent to the station.  I could use that for a nice excuse to visit

jhz563 posted:
Robert K posted:

611 is heading to Strasburg already? What, is it going to be there a month before the events?

I think she is due for a boiler inspection that will be conducted at the Strasburg shop.

If I remember reading correctly, 611 may be due for her FRA annual inspection, which includes a boiler wash, the hydrostatic test of the boiler at 125% of her working pressure, i.e. 375 psi., among other important things.

     JHZ563, 

               This looks to be primarily an NS move so I wouldn't expect 611 to take any Amtrak lines until it gets to Lancaster (or before it has to). A bunch of sites have a bunch of opinions on its routing. If it goes to Enola like it was supposed to on 08-21-19, then it might head south through New Cumberland on the Port Road and cross the Shocks Mill bridge, go to Columbia and take the Columbia Secondary through Mountville into Dillerville Yard.  I don't think it can make a turn off the old Reading RR bridge north of I-83 and get onto the Royalton Branch (which would lead to Amtrak's Keystone Line).  Waiting for it at the E-town passenger station would be just too easy. 

      Hope this helps. 

I feel like many questions being asked here could easily be answered if some folks just read what was posted above.  If you are going to Elizabethtown then you are only going to see a few Keystone trains. 

As for the move - she is northbound out of Berryville (Audrey) and headed for Shenandoah Junction as of 2:50pm. 

Interesting side note, When she gets to Shepardstown she will pass within a few hundred feet of O. Winston Link’s gravesite. 

M J Breen posted:

I feel like many questions being asked here could easily be answered if some folks just read what was posted above.  If you are going to Elizabethtown then you are only going to see a few Keystone trains. 

As for the move - she is northbound out of Berryville (Audrey) and headed for Shenandoah Junction as of 2:50pm. 

I appreciate your feedback, but understand most of the location names mean nothing to me, which is why I was asking about a map.  The map link posted earlier today wasn’t super specific, but it did call out Elizabethtown as a through point, which makes some sense to me, since that track leads to the interchange at Strasburg.  I have never been one to chase trains or sit trackside, but this seems like a unique opportunity. I have ridden Amtrak from Lancaster to Harrisburg many times in days gone by, and I remember freight often sharing the same rails.  

I hope someone gets a few snaps along the way.  I doubt it will me, but I wouldn’t mind if it was!

jhz563 posted:

Thanks Larry!  I thought it was going to be towed cold - what a cool surprise!

They CANNOT pull the locomotive cold as it would damage it. There needs to be something to run the lubricators and such. Without it, it would cause unnecessary wear on the valve gear/running gear. Also, how else would they blow that magnificent whistle at every crossing? 😉

If you knew when it was leaving, it looks to me like the general area of the Harrisburg air port would be a great place to catch it under the wires.  Looks like both lines east of Harrisburg go past the airport together before diverging.

NS is missing some serious free publicity by not having the local news do a nice pr photo op on the 611 before rolling through to Strasburg.

The line past Harrisburg airport is the Amtrak Keystone line and the NS Royalton Branch, neither of which are accessible from Enola yard without backtracking through Harrisburg.

They will go south from Enola yard on the Port Road line, which is the west side of the river. They will cross the river at the Shock Mills viaduct and that will put them on the east side of the river heading into Columbia, Pa.

At Columbia they’ll diverge from the Port Road at CP Cola and take the Dillerville secondary to Dillerville/Lewis Yard. From there they’ll take the tail track through Lancaster station at CP Cork and get on Amtrak at the east side of the Lancaster Station. Amtrak from there to the interchange at Paradise, PA

I don’t have a confirmed on duty time out of Enola or a crew called yet. It’s possible they may use the H19 to get from Enola to Dillerville,  and a local out of Dillerville to get them to Paradise since the lead engine will have to be can signal and ACSES equipped to run on amtrak - which all the engines based out of Dillerville yard are equipped with. 

M J Breen posted:

The line past Harrisburg airport is the Amtrak Keystone line and the NS Royalton Branch, neither of which are accessible from Enola yard without backtracking through Harrisburg.

They will go south from Enola yard on the Port Road line, which is the west side of the river. They will cross the river at the Shock Mills viaduct and that will put them on the east side of the river heading into Columbia, Pa.

At Columbia they’ll diverge from the Port Road at CP Cola and take the Dillerville secondary to Dillerville/Lewis Yard. From there they’ll take the tail track through Lancaster station at CP Cork and get on Amtrak at the east side of the Lancaster Station. Amtrak from there to the interchange at Paradise, PA

I don’t have a confirmed on duty time out of Enola or a crew called yet. It’s possible they may use the H19 to get from Enola to Dillerville,  and a local out of Dillerville to get them to Paradise since the lead engine will have to be can signal and ACSES equipped to run on amtrak - which all the engines based out of Dillerville yard are equipped with. 

If I understand you correctly - big if given my previous assumptions - that means they will have to pass through Goldsboro, York Haven, and pass Wago Junction.  Please tell me if that is correct, because if so it is going to roll right past me!

M J Breen posted:
Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

 Question about the inspection, how long does that typically take assuming everything is A-Okay with 611 from top to bottom? 

42 

Going off the top of my head - I think that's a nod to "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy" if I'm not mistaken.  "The answer to everything is 42."

For Art's benefit ...

trumptrain posted:

Great photo M.J. Breen!   So 611 is fired up during the move.  

Absolutely.

I was thinking that the 611 was going to be pulled dead in tow.  

A steam locomotive can not be towed dead, unless the main rods are removed, which then limits the towing speed because the running Gera would be out of balance. The lubrication for the valves and pistons is carried by way of the steam, i.e. water soluble valve oil, thus it is much easier to simply fire up the steam locomotive, and work a little bit of throttle so that the valves and pistons are always lubricated during movement.

 

Hot Water posted:
trumptrain posted:

Great photo M.J. Breen!   So 611 is fired up during the move.  

Absolutely.

I was thinking that the 611 was going to be pulled dead in tow.  

A steam locomotive can not be towed dead, unless the main rods are removed, which then limits the towing speed because the running Gera would be out of balance. The lubrication for the valves and pistons is carried by way of the steam, i.e. water soluble valve oil, thus it is much easier to simply fire up the steam locomotive, and work a little bit of throttle so that the valves and pistons are always lubricated during movement.

 

Thanks Hot Water!  Great info and I much appreciate it! 

611: BEAUTIFUL, as always!  ☺ I have ridden behind her many times, but my spouse actually got a cab ride at speed on one excursion! While a friend was "babysitting" her one night in Chattanooga in 1984, I was able to shovel some coal onto the banked fire and work the injector! I last rode behind her on an excursion from Charlotte To Asheville and return on October 31, 1993.

Last edited by Tinplate Art

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