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Long story,

I recently picked up a Williams/Samhongsa brass "USRA" 2-8-2 for a really good price.  However, the color of the "Southern" engine doesn't come close to anything I've seen:DSCN0872

and certainly doesn't match a spare Southern Lionel tender I have:

DSCN0873

Not wanting to expand my empire to RRs other than SAL and ACL (OK, I do have 1 N&W J and a NPBL 2-8-0), I decided to find proof of SAL or ACL owning USRA Mikes.

I already have 2 Williams SAL Mikes, so figured I'd look for a good candidate from ACL.

Most ACLs Mikes were of an older looking design:

2-8-2 835

but they did have a small group of 10 engines they acquired when the absorbed the AB&C Railroad.

From what I've been told, the AB&C engines came from NYC, who modified them from 2-8-0 engines into 2-8-2.  The little bit of data I found indicated that NYC engines 6035, 6055, 6056, 6061, and 6148 were sent to AB&C as numbers 228, 225, 226, 230, and 231 respectively.  That's only 5 of the 11 ACL acquired from the AB&C, who renumbered them by adding a 7 before the other 3 digits (AB&C 235-235 to ACL 7225-7235).

So far, I've found photos of ACL engines 7225, 7226, 7227, 7228, and 7232, but they're all from the engineer's side:

2-8-2 7232

IMO the Williams Mike is fairly close to the ACL engines, a few things like the bell and appliance on the top need to be moved/changed, but the overall appearance is close.  Moving the bell, whistle and replacing at least 1 of the domes is easy enough and doesn't require a lot/any Dremeling, but if the running boards are too far off, I can do it but would rather not.

Whew...Here's my cry for help...do any of you NYC fans have a photo of these NYC engines of the fireman's side?  The NYC numbers I posted may not even be correct, but they were the only link I could find to the AB&C.  AB&C photos of their Mikes are rare.

 

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Pete, SAL had quite a few Mikes.  I've modeled their USRA Q-1 (492) and Q-3 (411):

DSCN0401_230

I think the NYC would be found under the 2-8-2 H5 series, but I can't determine which ones as they had a load of the "H" class.  They could have come from one of their subsidiaries, not sure.

Here's what the fireman's side of the Williams Mike looks like:

Southern 2-8-2

As you can see, the one I just bought isn't close to the color of this one.  I was going to paint it black and keep it as a Southern engine, but then I'd have to get a Southern caboose to go with it so I decided to try and keep it in the ACL/SAL family of engines I already have.

I want to see if the fireman's side of the Williams is close to the NYC, or if anyone has photos of the AB&C engines that would be fine too!

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I think ....and don’t quote me on this....the class of locomotives your thinking of is the H5o class of 2-8-2’s ....these were turned into Mike’s from a class of G5 2-8-0’s ....prominent on the “ Big Four” ....if that’s the class you’re looking for, go to Richard Leanord’s NYC Steam collection, I believe that there’s a pic of an H5o still numbered in the Big Four.....again don’t quote me on this, but pretty sure this class was built from 2-8-0’s  at Beechgrove shops, and roamed Big Four territory.....

Pat

Last edited by harmonyards
@bob2 posted:

That color looks like Seaboard's "Russia iron" color.  What's not to like?

I may sell my UP version - can I expect more than $150?  (This is not an offer.)

LOL!  I'm thinking $250, I may have paid less for mine.  My 1st one was around $190 delivered!!!  Shows brass isn't as expensive as it used to be.

 

Thanks Pat, I'll look again.  I spotted some of his photos yesterday.

This model of New York Central light Mikado #5136 was made by MTH Premier with PS-2. According to Steam Locomotives of the New York Central Lines, by William D. Edson and H.L. Vail, Jr., NYC #5136 was a USRA class H-6a built by ALCo (not Lima as shown by the diamond-shaped builder’s plate) in December 1918.

MELGAR

MELGAR_2020_0922_06_NYC_282_5136_10X5MELGAR_2020_0922_07_NYC_282_5136_10X5MELGAR_2020_0922_10_NYC_282_5136_10X5MELGAR_2020_0922_11_NYC_282_5136_10X5MELGAR_2020_0922_15_NYC_282_5136_10X5MELGAR_2020_0922_22_NYC_282_5136_10X5

 

 

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Last edited by MELGAR

No problem Bob, ...only thing that might deter your interest in the H5o’s is they look nothing like a USRA Mikado that Williams made....this class of H5’s were built in house by the NYC.....they more resemble a Consolidation, from which they were derived from.....aside from the extended firebox and cab, and of course the truck for support.......good luck with your search, and happy hunting.....looks like a fun project to tackle!...

Pat

"Rebuilt from Class G-5 2-8-0 locomotives. Numbers 6036, 6040, 6041, 6043, 6044, 6050 and 6051 scrapped in 1936. Number 6045 sold to the Georgia Railroad in 1937 and became GA number 305. Number 6035 sold to the Atlanta, Birmingham & Coast in 1939 and became AB&C number 228. Number 6034 scrapped in 1942. Numbers 6037 and 6038 scrapped in 1949. Number 6048 scrapped in 1950. Numbers 6046, 6047 and 6052 scrapped in 1951. Numbers 6037, 6039 and 6042 scrapped in 1952. Number 6049 scrapped in 1953."

I'm still looking...  Here's some info from Locobase.

 

Notes:

  1. Number 6000 rebuilt from Class G-5 2-8-0 locomotive scrapped in 1936.
  2. Number 6001 rebuilt from Class G-5 2-8-0 locomotive scrapped in 1951.
  3. Rebuilt from Class G-5 2-8-0 locomotives. Number 6003 scrapped in 1949. Number 6002 scrapped in 1952.
  4. Number 6004 rebuilt from Class G-5 2-8-0 locomotive scrapped in 1953.
  5. Rebuilt from Class G-5 2-8-0 locomotives. Number 6007 scrapped in 1940. Numbers 6005 and 6006 scrapped in 1952.
  6. Rebuilt from Class G-5 2-8-0 locomotives. Number 6009 scrapped in 1936. Number 6008 scrapped in 1951.
  7. Rebuilt from Class G-5 2-8-0 locomotives. Number 6014 sold to the Tennessee, Alabama & Georgia in 1936 and became TA&G number 302. Numbers 6010, 6012, 6013, 6016 and 6019 scrapped in 1936. Number 6015 scrapped in 1940. Number 6011 scrapped in 1941. Number 6017 scrapped in 1950. Number 6018 scrapped in 1953.
  8. Rebuilt from Class G-5 2-8-0 locomotives. Numbers 6027-6032 scrapped in 1935. Number 6021 scrapped in 1949. Numbers 6020 and 6022-6025 scrapped in 1951. Number 6026 scrapped in 1953.
  9. Rebuilt from Class G-5 2-8-0 locomotives. Numbers 6036, 6040, 6041, 6043, 6044, 6050 and 6051 scrapped in 1936. Number 6045 sold to the Georgia Railroad in 1937 and became GA number 305. Number 6035 sold to the Atlanta, Birmingham & Coast in 1939 and became AB&C number 228. Number 6034 scrapped in 1942. Numbers 6037 and 6038 scrapped in 1949. Number 6048 scrapped in 1950. Numbers 6046, 6047 and 6052 scrapped in 1951. Numbers 6037, 6039 and 6042 scrapped in 1952. Number 6049 scrapped in 1953.
  10. Number 6054 sold to the Georgia Railroad in 1937 and became GA number 306. Number 6057 sold to the Tennessee Central in 1937 and became TC number 730. Numbers 6055 and 6056 sold to the Atlanta, Birmingham & Coast in 1938 and became AB&C numbers 225 and 226. Number 6061 sold to the Atlanta, Birmingham & Coast in 1938 and became AB&C number 230. Number 6063 sold to the Tennessee Central in 1938 and became TC number 729. Numbers 6058, 6059 and 6060 scrapped in 1940. Number 6053 scrapped in 1949. Number 6062 scrapped in 1954.
  11. Rebuilt from Class G-5 2-8-0 locomotives. Number 6065 scrapped in 1940. Numbers 6067 and 6073 scrapped in 1949. All the others scrapped between 1951 and 1957.
  12. Rebuilt from Class G-5 2-8-0 locomotives. Numbers 6125-6149 transferred from the LS&MS in 1919, Ex LS&MS numbers 4125-4149. Number 6147 sold to the Tennessee, Alabama & Georgia in 1935 and became TA&G number 301. Numbers 6126, 6130, 6133, 6134, 6138, 6140, 6143 and 6145 scrapped in 1935. Numbers 6132 and 6135 scrapped in 1936. Numbers 6127, 6128 and 6144 transferred to the Peoria & Eastern in 1937 and became P&E numbers 32-34. P&E number 32 scrapped in 1940. P&E numbers 33 and 34 scrapped in 1951 and 1950. Number 6148 sold to the Atlanta, Birmingham & Coast in 1939 and became AB&C number 231. Numbers 6129 and 6139 scrapped in 1949. Number 6136 scrapped in 1950. Number 6141 scrapped in 1951. Numbers 6131, 6137, 6142, 6146 and 6149 scrapped in 1952.
  13. Twenty 2-8-2 locomotives rebuilt from Class G-5 2-8-0 locomotives. Numbers 6698, 6699, 6700, 6704, 6705, 6707, 6708, 6710, 6712, 6713, 6718, 6719, 6720 and 6721 built in 1914. Numbers 6702, 6706, 6709, 6714, 6717 and 6722 built in 1915.
  14. USRA allocated "Mikado-Light" locomotives. Numbers 6699, 6705 and 6718 scrapped in 1936. Number 6706 sold to the Tennessee, Alabama & Georgia in 1936 and became TA&G number 303. Number 6714 and 6721 transferred to the Peoria & Eastern in 1937 and became P&E numbers 35 and 37. P&E numbers 35 and 37 scrapped in 1951. Number 6717 sold to the Tennessee Central in 1938 and became TC number 728. Number 6700 scrapped in 1940. Numbers 6698, 6707 and 6713 scrapped in 1949. Numbers 6708 and 6709 scrapped in 1950. Numbers 6702 and 6720 scrapped in 1951. Numbers 6704, 6710, 6712, 6719 and 6722 scrapped in 1952.
  15. Numbers 6150-6199 scrapped between 1954 and 1959 except number 6194 was scrapped in 1944. On May 2, 1957, at Cincinnati, Ohio 2-8-2 number 1977 (former number 6177) became the last steam locomotive to run on the New York Central Lines.
  16. Numbers 133-157 scrapped between 1950 and 1953.
  17. Numbers 158-182 scrapped between 1950 and 1953 except number 179 was transferred to the P&LE in 1950 and became P&LE number 215. P&LE number 215 scrapped in 1954.
  18. Numbers 212-236 scrapped between 1950 and 1954 except numbers 229 and 235 transferred to the P&LE in 1950 and became P&LE numbers 212 and 216.

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Last edited by CentralFan1976

Found a fireman's side view of one of the Mikes (7230), but I'm not sure it wasn't changed later.  The running board and the pilot step (steps on both sides) are different than on all the other Mikes (they have ladders not steps).

I ordered a copy of Larry Goolsby's book on the AB&C also, he said there are a number of photos of these engines in both AB&C and ACL paint.

7230

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Last edited by Bob Delbridge

Pat, nothing.  Going to leave it as is, I'm not that big of a rivet counter and the Williams model isn't all that tapered.

Thanks Bob, I looked and saw they had ACL listed but thought it was an error, didn't know they owned any USRA Mikes and didn't see a photo of one so I'll take another look.

The running boards are the one BIG thing that I see as possibly having to move/replace, but man I hate to do that, although I just got thru Dremeling them off a MTH 4-8-4.  At least the Mike boards are soldered in place.

I agree.  I've seen the ACL USRA Pacifics, and the Cyclopedia does list the ACL for the USRA Mikes.

Some of the guys on the ACL/SAL forum, that have been around a while, were convinced ACL didn't have any Mikes numbered in the 72XX group until I found the photos.  ACL may have gotten some from when they took over some of the other RRs down south.

I'm waiting on Goolsby's book to arrive and see what's inside.

@bob2 posted:

Let us know if you really like the book.  I need a new book.

Will do.  I have 1 or 2 of his other books and have enjoyed reading/looking them.

I'm usually surprised by some of the data I see in these books.  Where do they get never before published material 70+ years after a steam engine has been scrapped???  I wonder how many unpublished photos sit in boxes?  I have a friend that has taken train photos all his life, he's 80+ now.  I know he's got enough on various RRs to write several books.  He used to work for SAL as a brakeman in his youth.

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