Need help removing body from Allegheny Virginian 6-28028

Here’s a shot of the underside I took when I was getting ready to lube everything.

Can anyone verify the screws that I need to remove to separate the body from the chassis on this locomotive?
The manual pic only shows for screws but that’s hard to believe.

I believe that may be one with a harness looped over the crossmember for the front power truck.  I know some of them you have to take the front power truck off using that one screw and unplug one or two plugs to remove it.  Newer ones come apart intact.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I believe that may be one with a harness looped over the crossmember for the front power truck.  I know some of them you have to take the front power truck off using that one screw and unplug one or two plugs to remove it.  Newer ones come apart intact.

Is there any way to verify this? I have never done a disassembly on a locomotive before and am worried I may screw something up because I do not know what it is that I don’t know - but should.

Since I don't currently have one of these to look at, I can't verify it.  I have repaired and upgraded a few of these over the years, and I didn't have any problem getting them apart.  I had one recently for a Super-Chuffer installation, and I don't remember any issues doing the upgrade.  However, not all of the articulated stuff comes apart exactly the same way, so there's sometimes a wrinkle or two.

Ok thank you GRJ. If I run into a snag I’ll put a post on the forum.

The CC-M is supposed to be delivered tomorrow.

Just had mine apart several times doing upgrades.  Yes, 4 screws to get the body off (2 at cab, 2 at first set of steam chests).  First though, I'd remove the front set of drivers (big flat head screw, then push down gently and slide towards rear of locomotive).  I don't recall about the front pilot, but those are generally one screw if you need to remove it.  I might be forgetting something, but it was much easier than I had thought it would be.  It was my first upgrade on a modern locomotive, so I had it apart a dozen times getting it to all work.  It does now though, and I'm quite pleased.

@Burl posted:

Just had mine apart several times doing upgrades.

Wasn't there a connector from the front truck to the main chassis you had to unplug?

This is a view of my front driver and pilot. Are you referring to the big flathead screw at the right of the pic?

This one?

Yes, that is the screw to remove the front power truck.  It's also hooked inside so you'll have to slide it a bit to unhook it.  Also, the drive shaft coupling will slide off, to allow you to remove the truck.

Does anyone have a parts breakdown for this Allegheny Virginian locomotive ? Lionel 6-28028?

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Yes, that is the screw to remove the front power truck.  It's also hooked inside so you'll have to slide it a bit to unhook it.  Also, the drive shaft coupling will slide off, to allow you to remove the truck.

How does the coupling reconnect during reassembly? Or is that done before the shell is reattached? I’ve never seen the inside of one of these so I’m not sure what to expect.

@Burl posted:

Just had mine apart several times doing upgrades.  Yes, 4 screws to get the body off (2 at cab, 2 at first set of steam chests).  First though, I'd remove the front set of drivers (big flat head screw, then push down gently and slide towards rear of locomotive).  I don't recall about the front pilot, but those are generally one screw if you need to remove it.  I might be forgetting something, but it was much easier than I had thought it would be.  It was my first upgrade on a modern locomotive, so I had it apart a dozen times getting it to all work.  It does now though, and I'm quite pleased.

Thank you.
How about reassembly? Gunrunner John mentioned the drive coupling sliding off etc., how hard is it to put the front truck back on? Is that done before the shell is put back on?

I have the C&O version of that engine. To disassemble:

• Remove the large screw that connects the front engine to the rear engine.
• Move the front engine rearward until you can unhook the L shaped hanger from the bracket inside the engine. Be careful not to loose the conical shaped washer and spring. Pull the front engine up and forward (this will disconnect the drive shaft) until you can see a connector with wires. Pull the connector apart and the front engine can be removed and set aside.
• Remove the 2 screws in the cylinders on the rear engine. Remove the 2 screws at the front of the firebox. You should be able to remove the frame from the boiler now by pulling them apart. If they don't want to come apart you may need to use a flat bladed screwdriver to gently pry them apart at the firebox.
• Once you can remove the boiler you will have to disconnect the wires going to the handrails (that's the antenna). Should be a yellow wire nut. Gently pull the cab light out of the backhead. I also think you have to pull apart the wire connector at the smoke unit as the smoke unit is mounted to the boiler.

Look out for other wires that may connect the frame to the boiler. It's been a while since I've had mine apart so I might have missed something. Take pictures as you take it apart so you if you don't remember how to put it back together, the pictures will help. Above all- take your time.

As articulated engines go this one is fairly simple to get apart. There aren't any wires for marker lights and number boards to contend with.

Ken

I think you all have it covered, but yes, there is a connector for the front pick-ups.  But, I have a cradle that let's me lay the shell over next to the frame, so often I'm able to do things without disconnecting all of the wires.  Ken's instructions look spot on to me as I read them.

Thank you all! This is the most expensive locomotive that I have bought so far - and I’m probably overly cautious because it is now my favorite even though it’s not a Legacy - so I appreciate every bit of advice all of you have given me.

So, I was able to get the shell off easily enough and yes there was a connector to the front truck as you guys mentioned. I took a lot of pics (these are only some of them!) for reference but because I have the foam cradle I was able to lay the shell onto it without disconnecting any other wires yet. Should I disconnect everything from the shell?

A couple of items… 1) when I lifted the shell off the light for the cab light (maybe the firebox glow?) was already exposed as you can see in one of the pics just behind the motor. And 2) is there anything else I should disconnect (other than what is needed for the CC-M installation) that will make this easier?

@Raven87 posted:

Does anyone have a parts breakdown for this Allegheny Virginian locomotive ? Lionel 6-28028?

https://www.lionelsupport.com/...;submitButton=Search

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

https://www.lionelsupport.com/...;submitButton=Search

Excellent. Thank you John!

Does anyone have a TMCC Allegheny specific CC-M installation instruction sheet? The only one I found on ERR’s website is a generic version.

Obviously the CC-M replaces this board but is there a particular sequence to remove the old board and transfer all those plugs to the new one? This is the current one in my locomotive.

While I am a reasonably well educated person with solid mechanical skills, the importance of this process being done correctly is not lost on me. So, reading the ‘generic’ installation instructions seemed very intimidating because I did not see much about the mechanics of the plug and play (the ‘unplug/plug then play’!) removal and installation details?

Did I miss something?

There are no written instructions for that specific locomotive that I know of.  Really, since it currently has the DCDR, they should be really simple.

Remove the DCDR, simply unplug the two plugs and mechanically remove it from the heatsink.

Install the CC-M on the same heatsink, make sure you use some heatsink compound on the FET drivers.

Plug the two plugs you removed from the DCDR into the CC-M.

Plug the 10-pin connector into the CC-M, run the wire from pin 1 of the 10-pin connector to pin 24 of the R2LC socket.  Don't solder it to the R2LC board, you may want to swap that later, solder it to the motherboard.

Job done.

See shot below, pin #24 of the R2LC is indicated by the arrow.  Solder the serial data lead from the CC-M to the matching socket pin, probably under the motherboard for this model.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

There are no written instructions for that specific locomotive that I know of.  Really, since it currently has the DCDR, they should be really simple.

Remove the DCDR, simply unplug the two plugs and mechanically remove it from the heatsink.

Install the CC-M on the same heatsink, make sure you use some heatsink compound on the FET drivers.

Plug the two plugs you removed from the DCDR into the CC-M.

Plug the 10-pin connector into the CC-M, run the wire from pin 1 of the 10-pin connector to pin 24 of the R2LC socket.  Don't solder it to the R2LC board, you may want to swap that later, solder it to the motherboard.

Job done.

See shot below, pin #24 of the R2LC is indicated by the arrow.  Solder the serial data lead from the CC-M to the matching socket pin, probably under the motherboard for this model.

Hi John,

I really have to plead ignorance because all those acronyms familiar to experienced tech gurus like yourself are really Greek to me. Same with the Generic instruction sheet for the CC-M.
Yes, it sounds very easy but I’m not experienced in electronics tech so therefore it’s very complicated. Something like Heat sink compound I’ve never heard of much less used; same with acronyms like R2LC, DCDr, etc. I have no idea what those are or what exactly they are or their location.

I apologize for my glaring lack of knowledge but this is my absolutely first time I’ve ever looked under the shell of a locomotive. I’ve been searching and reading but this is a huge learning experience for me.

I really appreciate your patience and assistance! I will get it done!

Is there any source where a novice like me can learn about the internal electronics (and how they work/what they do) of these locomotives? I really dislike feeling so ignorant!

Is this the DCDR?

You have the parts identified correctly.

@Raven87 posted:

Is there any source where a novice like me can learn about the internal electronics (and how they work/what they do) of these locomotives? I really dislike feeling so ignorant!

Sadly, it's the same as many other endeavors, it's a gradual learning process.  OJT is the way a lot of us learned initially.  Once you're been around the block a few times, you start to understand more about the internals.  The TMCC models are fairly simple for the most part, some of the more sophisticated Legacy models get a little more convoluted.  Then there's the whole MTH DCS side of the fence...

There are wiring diagrams for "Typical" models.  For your Allegheny, the "Typical 2-6-6-4 Articulated Steam, Non-Odyssey)" would be fairly close, and will certainly give you an idea of the internal wiring.  It's in this: Lionel TMCC Representative Locomotive Schematics.pdf file.

Thank you so much John.
My CC-M arrives today and I can’t wait to get to work on it.
Are there just the four screws (2 per side) at the bottom to remove the DCDR plus two plugs to disconnect? I’m asking because it looks like there might be more than 2 plugs into the board in the pics below?
Or different screws? And what/where are the FET drivers?

Remote the two plugs and then the two screws you indicated.  The DCDR will lift right out.  Remove the DCDR from the heatsink and replace it with the CC-M, stick it back into that bracket with the same two screws.

Ok I have it out. But I don’t understand how to remove the board from what I believe is the heat sink? It’s very well connected but looks like it should slide out?

Duh… ok, never mind. My OJT continues.

Now, I’m just waiting on the mailman who is bringing the CC-M  👍

Yep, I figured you'd tumble to the function of those screws and nuts soon!

What/where are FET drivers I should put heat sink compound on? How much compound is enough?

John can you clarify this? My CC-M was delivered late this evening so I haven’t unboxed it yet but I’m not sure ‘how’ to solder the serial data wire to the matching socket pin/motherboard vs the R2LC because I’m not 100% sure what I’m looking for to do that?

I understand the wire goes to the Pin 24 location etc but how do I do this right the first time? Is the ‘underside of the motherboard’ easily accessible? Again, I’m sorry that this is so unfamiliar to me! It won’t be the next time  

Is this where you are referring to attach the lead for serial data?

L

The HS compound goes on the four FET devices where they are in contact with the heatsink.

Correct, that's the pin to solder the serial data lead of the CC-M to.

Ok I have the CC-M installed and am down to connecting the wire going to pin 24. As you can see there are two wires coming from the 10 pin plug but I only need the blue wire, right?
What should I do with the green wire?

Correct, and if you read the instructions you'll see they mention just cutting the green wire off.  What I do is remove it from the connector, that way I have a wire with a 2mm connector contact.

This appears solders solidly. Thoughts? I must say I have never soldered such a tiny wire before!

Looks fine to me.  If you think those wires are small, try #30 wire-wrap wire.   I use that a lot when doing LED lighting installations.

Wow! What should I set my control type two for the Locomotive now to get the 100 speed steps? Cab1 or R100? Installation is complete and it is back on the track but I haven’t rolled it out yet.

Success!!!! THANK YOU everyone and ESPECIALLY you John! I could not have done it without you!

The control type for this one should be AUX1/4 after setting the ID, then you're all set.  My Virginian Allegheny also got a Super-Chuffer for smoke control, it's a great looking and performing locomotive now.

You just need the Chuff-Generator and the Super-Chuffer II to get 4-chuffs/rev and full smoke control now.   That can be the next adventure.

Great! That vid was on Cab1 but I won’t get back to it till this evening so I’ll set it correctly then.
Yes to the next adventure. I want those upgrades too!

Wow, this is a great discussion; very similar (in some ways) to the question I asked in regards to the C&O 2-6-6-2 #28075.

Perhaps I should have started my thread in this category... 🙂

Glad you got it done Steve. 👍

Mark in Oregon

@Strummer posted:

Wow, this is a great discussion; very similar (in some ways) to the question I asked in regards to the C&O 2-6-6-2 #28075.

Perhaps I should have started my thread in this category... 🙂

Glad you got it done Steve. 👍

Mark in Oregon

Thanks Mark. Im glad the CC-M is in and look forward to doing the the other mods too. It was definitely a huge learning experience. I think I’m going to post a thread this weekend about how to do this (with the pics I took) for a complete novice like me. Just getting this massive, very heavy locomotive apart was a very intimidating challenge much less replacing electronics!
Thank goodness for this forum and especially people like John(!!!), Ken, Burl and the others who chimed in!
And - what an improvement!
Thanks again!

IMO, adding cruise is one of the biggest incremental improvements you can make for locomotives that don't have it.  I've added several dozen CC-M modules to my TMCC locomotives that came without it, what an improvement!  Other than the small motorized units that have the small Mini Commander II sized boards, all my stuff has cruise if possible.  I still have a couple of Pulmore motored locomotives, obviously those don't get cruise.

It is like you said John, it is a night and day difference in the personality of the Locomotive. It went from being a very nice and well detailed unit to a true locomotive with much more character and especially realism that is a great experience to watch and operate.
The difference is absolutely incredible! So now I’m really looking forward to adding The Chuff-Generator and the Super-Chuffer II.

Being kind of a big smoke guy, I'm partial to the smoke function.   With the Super-Chuffer, you also get an automatic Rule-17 LED headlight and an automatic cab light control.  Part of the fun will be getting the LED in that wedge headlight, took me a few to develop my technique for lighting those with an LED.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Being kind of a big smoke guy, I'm partial to the smoke function.   With the Super-Chuffer, you also get an automatic Rule-17 LED headlight and an automatic cab light control.  Part of the fun will be getting the LED in that wedge headlight, took me a few to develop my technique for lighting those with an LED.

Sounds awesome and challenging. The headlight definitely needs the LED upgrade so if that comes with it all the better! I’m sure I’ll have questions for that install too. 😉

Does the bulb and necessary wiring come with the kit?

I can't go giving you all my secrets, nobody will want upgrades!

Actually, the stuff for the LED headlight does not come with the Super-Chuffer, that's "locally sourced".  It's really just a surface mount LED and some fine wire.  You can actually buy the SMT LED's with wires attached, that makes the job a bit easier.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I can't go giving you all my secrets, nobody will want upgrades!

Actually, the stuff for the LED headlight does not come with the Super-Chuffer, that's "locally sourced".  It's really just a surface mount LED and some fine wire.  You can actually buy the SMT LED's with wires attached, that makes the job a bit easier.

Haha! Thanks John.

Does ‘SMT LED’ mean a surface mount LED or does the SMT refer to something else?
Would I just splice the wires into the ones going to the incandescent or is more required?

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

The control type for this one should be AUX1/4 after setting the ID, then you're all set.  My Virginian Allegheny also got a Super-Chuffer for smoke control, it's a great looking and performing locomotive now.

Well, I must admit I thought I understood this but now I’m not sure. Looks like more OJT…😬
I use my Legacy 990 Cab2 for control and it offers four settings for Control Type etc. Thought it might be simple. But…
To clarify (and the instructions are not clear about this IMO either) do I need to reset my locomotive ID number? Even though it’s already set in my Cab2? (This would be using the Program/Run switch process etc?)

Then, when I scroll to set Control Type on my Cab2, I should hit Aux 1 then the number 4, or depress 4 simultaneously when I depress the Aux1 button on the handheld? What will I see on the Cab2 then? Will the speed step graph be visible?

Lastly, Should I COMPLETELY disregard the four built in settings in the Cab 2 (CAB1, TMCC, R100, Legacy) altogether?

Thanks in advance. Man, nothing is EVER as easy as I thought it would be!

First off, the feature type you set when installing the Cruise Commander M is not the same as the control type in the CAB2.

From the CC-M instructions...

          click on graphic to enlarge

I saw that. But - just above that it says this is only required if replacing the R2LC? I did not replace that board so do I still need to reprogram?

Trust me, you always want to set the feature code when you install the CC-M or the full Cruise Commander.

Will do!

I did the reprogramming and AUX1/4 and it is back in RUN.
The info says this:

I do not see a graph for speed steps? I must be doing something wrong.

This is after the reprogramming on the main screen on the cab2

And the touchpad now only shows numbers and not icons such as the ones to adjust volume etc.?

However, the slow speed movement is perfect.

Go back and set the control type to R100 and see if you like that better.  R100 was specifically added for ERR modules.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Go back and set the control type to R100 and see if you like that better.  R100 was specifically added for ERR modules.

Thanks John. I’ll do that.

Setting it to R100 did it. The graph is there and the icons are back. Thank you!

Now THIS is even better slow speed crawl than I hoped for. This shot is the Allegheny pulling 18 coal hoppers coming off the main line at speed step 1.