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I have a Hiawatha 6-13004 and do not have a modern transformer or control system.  The locomotive runs great in both directions and lights up but it doesn't have any sounds, I think it has the Legacy system which I'm not familiar with at all..  Can anyone tell me how to get the sounds to work or can it not be done with a conventional transformer.    Also does this have a battery in it somewhere.  I do not have a instruction manual and cannot find one on the Lionel site.  Thanks for you help

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Manual and all support documents https://www.lionelsupport.com/...-Gauge-Passenger-Set

Direct link to Manual https://www.lionelsupport.com/...ents/71-3004-250.pdf

It covers all of your questions.

You may have the sound switch set to "Signalsounds" vs full blown "Railsounds" Again the Signalsounds setting disables the background engine sounds and chuffing so unless you activated bell or whistle -the engine would be silent. Switch according to picture is same side as the smoke switch under the cab.

Another thing the volume might be turned down.

"The volume control
knob to raise or lower the level of sound is
located underneath the rear truck near the
RailSounds switch"

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Last edited by Vernon Barry

Manual and all support documents https://www.lionelsupport.com/...-Gauge-Passenger-Set

Direct link to Manual https://www.lionelsupport.com/...ents/71-3004-250.pdf

It covers all of your questions.

You may have the sound switch set to "Signalsounds" vs full blown "Railsounds" Again the Signalsounds setting disables the background engine sounds and chuffing so unless you activated bell or whistle -the engine would be silent. Switch according to picture is same side as the smoke switch under the cab.

Another thing the volume might be turned down.

Ya beat me to it!

@bum posted:

Okay.  I have the battery in and put it on the tracks and the only sounds it makes is a beeping sound similar to a bird, it beeps for about 2 minutes and stops.  Other than that it lights up and runs great.  Any suggestions?

Either you have a different locomotive with different electronics than you indicated by product number- possibly an MTH reproduction with protosound, or maybe some kind of Lionchief?? Other folks have mistaken the 2 dings that a PS1 MTH engine makes when first powered- but your description of the sound is slightly different.

The product number you gave and the details of this engine https://www.lionelsupport.com/...-Gauge-Passenger-Set

Also, is it possible you had another locomotive on the track like a Lionchief expecting to connect to the remote that was also powered when you were trying to check out this loco?

The battery should have nothing to do with the sounds other than letting them play when power is dropped. You should be testing WITHOUT a battery if in fact it is a Lionel. Again, the battery is optional and not required in a Lionel.

Conversely, if it is an MTH PS1 or PS2 5V system, then the battery absolutely is required- but then the instructions and documentation- let alone troubleshooting are ENTIRELY different.

A video and pictures would be much more helpful now that you have this beeping sound.

Pictures of the battery and when you had the engine open to replace it.

Video of the beeping sound the engine is making.

Again, if we are talking the correct product number - it should never beep.

That engine- according to the detailed parts list has a basic TMCC motherboard, R2LC, Railsounds power board, and typical Railsounds card.

Not all the parts pictures are there but these are similar or representations of them

Motherboard that the cards plug into

R2LC TMCC receiver and main processor controller

Railsounds power board responsible for providing the 5V power needed by the Railsounds sound card.

Example railsounds board (note, not the exact one for this specific engine- just a representation)

In order for sounds to work under conventional, the following needs to work:

#1 the railsounds power board providing 5V power to the railsounds card

#2 The railsounds card getting 5V and not sensing serial data from the R2lC because we are in convetional, it begins sounds under conventional control listening for bell and whistle commands on the AC power coming into the engine.

#3 The Railsounds/Signalsounds switch must be set to Railsounds in order to get full background sounds- aka sounds at power on. If set to signalsounds mode, it will ONLY play whistle and bell when activated by a transformer control for whistle or bell.

#4 The volume control is also used in conventional mode to set the overall volume.

The fact you are getting a beep implies that something is getting power and volume control is turned up the speaker is working. However, this engine and boards should never ever beep. Again, sounds very suspiciously like a Lionchief engine that was on the track and inadvertently powered.

Even so, if that was the case, doesn't solve you not having sounds out of the Hiawatha.

Okay, first the model number that I posted is correct, I have the boxes that this set came in and the manual at the link you (Vernon) posted is correct to the locomotive but unfortunately it doesn't have a trouble shooting page.  The beeping is not even close to the sounds that MTH makes, it is faint and a beep rather than a clunk and there is nothing else on the track.  Also when I push the whistle button I can hear it click but no sound.  I'm using a Z-4000 MTH Transformer.  I know absolutely nothing about electronics and circuit boards.  I was also thinking on the way home that maybe the volume control is off instead of on, can you tell me in which direction I would turn it to increase the volume and will it fall out if I turn it all the way counter clockwise?  I'm getting closer, at least it beeps and clicks now.  I have never done a video with my phone, I'll try it tomorrow and if I can figure out how to post it I will.  thanks again.

@bum posted:

Okay, first the model number that I posted is correct, I have the boxes that this set came in and the manual at the link you (Vernon) posted is correct to the locomotive but unfortunately it doesn't have a trouble shooting page.  The beeping is not even close to the sounds that MTH makes, it is faint and a beep rather than a clunk and there is nothing else on the track.  Also when I push the whistle button I can hear it click but no sound.  I'm using a Z-4000 MTH Transformer.  I know absolutely nothing about electronics and circuit boards.  I was also thinking on the way home that maybe the volume control is off instead of on, can you tell me in which direction I would turn it to increase the volume and will it fall out if I turn it all the way counter clockwise?  I'm getting closer, at least it beeps and clicks now.  I have never done a video with my phone, I'll try it tomorrow and if I can figure out how to post it I will.  thanks again.

"Also when I push the whistle button I can hear it click but no sound. "

There should not be a click. This doesn't have a relay or at least not per the documentation and parts list.

So again, makes me wonder is this what it says it is, or is this modified or something else? I'm saying that because there might have been conventional versions of this engine that then had an old school relay driven air whistle and the beep could be the motor squealing and click would be the relay.

" which direction I would turn it to increase the volume and will it fall out if I turn it all the way counter clockwise?"

Clockwise to increase when looking at it is the convention, but by no means the rule. No, it should not fall out, but then again, are you actually adjusting volume or is this some mounting screw?

Sorry, I'm not trying to doubt you, I'm just going off the manual and what I know to be valid for most engines. Without pictures, at best I'm guessing at what you are seeing and actually doing.

You could reseat the card on the pins (be careful not to shift them off a pin row), but if electronics are not your thing, you may have to have a tech look at this.

@bum posted:

Thanks Vernon, I'll get back into it tomorrow when I get in.  One more thing I forgot to mention, the marker lights blink in tune with the beeping.

Sorry, this one engine I don't happen to own and have not worked on, but we keep getting conflicting parts and manual do not match what you are saying for problems.

Example, the manual says this about lights:

Normally, in a lot of TMCC Lionels that have Pitmann motors, they used the cruise control DCDS motor drivers and then that also would be the source where the typical LED class or marker lamps plug in.

But then the parts listing shows a normal non-cruise DCDR, which I know has no provisions for LED marker or class lamps

So then I start thinking what other regulated power source could they be borrowing from? The railsounds power board? The R2LC 5V?

Clearly I can see the wiring to the markers in this picture below, but again, unsure the source of that power feeding them.

Found a video and one with the shell open https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xd1CziVEX0s

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...

So again, makes me wonder is this what it says it is, or is this modified or something else? I'm saying that because there might have been conventional versions of this engine that then had an old school relay driven air whistle and the beep could be the motor squealing and click would be the relay.

...Sorry, I'm not trying to doubt you, I'm just going off the manual and what I know to be valid for most engines. Without pictures, at best I'm guessing at what you are seeing and actually doing....

I have this engine, along with the Commodore Vanderbilt that was produced at about the same time.  My understanding is that there weren't a lot of these made and it wasn't very popular at the time, so unless someone did some heavy modifications, I would expect that all copies of this engine should be similar.  But as you said, pics are essential.

Sorry, this one engine I don't happen to own and have not worked on, but we keep getting conflicting parts and manual do not match what you are saying for problems.

Example, the manual says this about lights:

Normally, in a lot of TMCC Lionels that have Pitmann motors, they used the cruise control DCDS motor drivers and then that also would be the source where the typical LED class or marker lamps plug in.

But then the parts listing shows a normal non-cruise DCDR, which I know has no provisions for LED marker or class lamps

So then I start thinking what other regulated power source could they be borrowing from? The railsounds power board? The R2LC 5V?

Clearly I can see the wiring to the markers in this picture below, but again, unsure the source of that power feeding them.

Found a video and one with the shell open https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xd1CziVEX0s

Thanks for finding and posting this.  When I need to perform some service, it will be very helpful.

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