Need to upgrade DCS TIU & Remote

The guys at NJ-HR can do it, they're pretty accommodating.

This could be a good excuse to finally see the layout. Thanks.

If you can read clear instructions, and are will to spend a few dollars for cables, it is not a difficult task.  The CURRENT Loader program on screen instructions are very clear.

I'm on a Mac.

I seem to recall that Barry Broskowitz had a workaround on that.

I did read that somewhere & I scanned through the latest Companion & didn't see anything. I'll check again.

Thanks

I just scanned Barry's book & came to the section on a Mac workaround, the following is a quote: "While it may be possible to run the DCS Loader Program on a non-Intel personal computer using some form of Microsoft Windows emulation, it is not recommended".

Although I'm a graphic artist I came into the computer world later than most. My focus has been on the software I needed to make a living, any computer related issues were always handled by IT. I'm recently retired and still use my Mac for freelance work & I'd prefer not to possibly screw that up as well as my DCS. Build a kit, paint & weather a model, build bench work, lay track, simple soldering, that's what I'm comfortable with.

I think the best solution for me is to continue running what runs until I find someone who's more savvy at upgrading the system.

Maybe a better solution is to buy a used laptop, if cheap enough, to update my TIU & Remote. Anyone know the minimum requirements?

I don't mind saying that I'm fairly ignorant about computers, especially a PC. Would this meet the requirements, see below. I already have the cables that are needed that I purchased over 10 years ago when I tried to upgrade then.

ironman1 posted:

Maybe a better solution is to buy a used laptop, if cheap enough, to update my TIU & Remote. Anyone know the minimum requirements?

You can upgrade DCS on most any Windows computer, I think if it Runs at least Windows 7, it's more than sufficient to run the DCS upgrade.

So the laptop pictured above should meet the need?

Ironman1, that Dell would work great. I'm still using a 2001 HP laptop with XP on it just for DCS upgrades and engine software loading. Only down side is the XP platform is no longer supported by Microsoft.

I have used my MAC.  But you have to run Windows on it.  It's a PITA.  MTH is the only reason why I have Windows on my MAC.

You would think with their great desire for us to use our cell phones to run trains that their "wonderful" APP would do this.

Have Fun.

Ron

Since Windows computers are many times more common than MAC computers, it's small wonder why they supported the app in Windows.

The reason the application doesn't do the upgrades is pretty simple, you need a hardware link to the TIU and remote to upgrade them.

windows 7 is the best for MTh upgrades ! windows  10 sometimes does not work right with mth  downloads ? never had a problem with windows 7, and if you need it I can set you up on a window 7  I 7 laptop ! or I can reload your own windows & DCS software tiu remote and flash ps3 engines!

Alan

I've loaded tons of PS/2 and PS/3 boards with Windows 10, never an issue.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

 

The reason the application doesn't do the upgrades is pretty simple, you need a hardware link to the TIU and remote to upgrade them.

Phones have ports for hardwire.  The MTH WIFI device communicates with the TIU as well.  No reason why a phone, which is a computer, could not wirelessly upgrade the TIU.  We just have to assume MTH just does not want to program the APP to do that.

HI Joe:  Please watch this video before you do anything....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17CpEt5iqlA

I am also a Mac User, I have never owned a PC.  Bought my first Mac in 1983 and buy a new one about every 4 years.  I had my son come over with his PC and he did the upgrades right in my train room. 

Hope this helps.   Gary

How would a phone wirelessly communicate with a TIU?  I do not share your assumption.

Thanks for all the feedback guys! I'm asking around my family for anyone with an old laptop with windows 7 they wish to part with. I will watch the video before I make any attempt.

RJR posted:

How would a phone wirelessly communicate with a TIU?  I do not share your assumption.

Hmmm.  A DCS wifi module maybe.

Ron045 posted:

gunrunnerjohn posted:

 

The reason the application doesn't do the upgrades is pretty simple, you need a hardware link to the TIU and remote to upgrade them.

Phones have ports for hardwire.  The MTH WIFI device communicates with the TIU as well.  No reason why a phone, which is a computer, could not wirelessly upgrade the TIU.  We just have to assume MTH just does not want to program the APP to do that.

You assume facts not in evidence.  I suspect that they'd have to make significant changes to the firmware and boot loader in the TIU and remote to actually accomplish what you suggest is easy.  It's quite possible that the hardware design also precludes the ability to do the over the air update through the WiFi module.

I'm not going to argue this point with you, it's probably not going to change any minds.  Suffice to say that I've done some over-the-air updating using Ethernet, the devil is in the details.  It may well be possible, but I wouldn't hold my breath for it to happen any time soon!

I say this a lot, but here it is again.

Nothing is so easy as the job you imagine someone else doing!

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Ron045 posted:

gunrunnerjohn posted:

 

The reason the application doesn't do the upgrades is pretty simple, you need a hardware link to the TIU and remote to upgrade them.

Phones have ports for hardwire.  The MTH WIFI device communicates with the TIU as well.  No reason why a phone, which is a computer, could not wirelessly upgrade the TIU.  We just have to assume MTH just does not want to program the APP to do that.

You assume facts not in evidence.  I suspect that they'd have to make significant changes to the firmware and boot loader in the TIU and remote to actually accomplish what you suggest is easy.  It's quite possible that the hardware design also precludes the ability to do the over the air update through the WiFi module.

I'm not going to argue this point with you, it's probably not going to change any minds.  Suffice to say that I've done some over-the-air updating using Ethernet, the devil is in the details.  It may well be possible, but I wouldn't hold my breath for it to happen any time soon!

I say this a lot, but here it is again.

Nothing is so easy as the job you imagine someone else doing!

Maybe you are right John.  I assume too much.  I assume that because MTH wants us to use cell phones as controllers that maybe they would drag all aspects of their system into the 21st century and not have us using a curly telephone cord from 1986 to update their own system.

How silly of me.

Ron045 posted:

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Ron045 posted:

gunrunnerjohn posted:

 

The reason the application doesn't do the upgrades is pretty simple, you need a hardware link to the TIU and remote to upgrade them.

Phones have ports for hardwire.  The MTH WIFI device communicates with the TIU as well.  No reason why a phone, which is a computer, could not wirelessly upgrade the TIU.  We just have to assume MTH just does not want to program the APP to do that.

You assume facts not in evidence.  I suspect that they'd have to make significant changes to the firmware and boot loader in the TIU and remote to actually accomplish what you suggest is easy.  It's quite possible that the hardware design also precludes the ability to do the over the air update through the WiFi module.

I'm not going to argue this point with you, it's probably not going to change any minds.  Suffice to say that I've done some over-the-air updating using Ethernet, the devil is in the details.  It may well be possible, but I wouldn't hold my breath for it to happen any time soon!

I say this a lot, but here it is again.

Nothing is so easy as the job you imagine someone else doing!

Maybe you are right John.  I assume too much.  I assume that because MTH wants us to use cell phones as controllers that maybe they would drag all aspects of their system into the 21st century and not have us using a curly telephone cord from 1986 to update their own system.

How silly of me.

Curly cord is only needed for the DCS remote which has nothing to do with the WiFi and Modern app usage. 

I wouldn't rule out this feature being added in the future but as the update process works now it wouldn't be fully automatic unless some hardware modification comes to the TIU.

While I haven’t read all of this, we are happy to do upgrades for free. Just mail us your components, we will do the upgrade, and mail it back. 

Mr. Muffin, thank you for the offer & I may take you up on it. I've watched the updating video 3 times & it sure looks like it's easy enough to do. My wife uses our home computer for work & I'd prefer not to mess with it. Since the upgrades seem easy enough, I'm looking into buying a used laptop for this sole purpose & give it a try.

Joe

Joe, As stated above, Don't worry about spending too much for a used laptop, this software will run on about anything. If possible though, get one with a 9 pin serial RS-232 hardware port built in. Even though my Rev. L TIU has the USB port on it, I still use the 9 pin for the upgrades. I don't have to mess around with USB driver installs or my laptop detecting the TIU before installing.

Yes, my goal is to buy cheap. The laptop needs to be for only one purpose, DCS upgrades.

Ironman, there is a related use.  The contents of a remote can be stored on the computer using the Loader program.  So if you ever have to reset the remote, you merely restore from the computer and don't have to re-enter lal the data.  If you have several remotes, you can clone them so all are identical and don't have to enter data in each.

When we hear MTH should do this or MTH should do that, all it takes is money.  In an era when model trains as a hobby is declining, and tariff issues could raise production costs, a company must be prudent in incurring expense if it wishes to remain viable.  How many freight cars must be sold to pay one person a living wage?

Hi RJR,

I wasn't aware of the added benefit of storing & cloning the information, so having a dedicated inexpensive laptop makes plenty of sense. Believe me, after recently loosing my job at the age of 63, I'm aware of the cost issues associated with the hobby. I've avoided the upgrades since things were running ok until now & anything I can do myself to save money will be an added benefit.

Joe

Understood.

Alan Mancus posted:

windows 7 is the best for MTh upgrades ! windows  10 sometimes does not work right with mth  downloads ? never had a problem with windows 7, and if you need it I can set you up on a window 7  I 7 laptop ! or I can reload your own windows & DCS software tiu remote and flash ps3 engines!

Alan

Hi Alan,

I was reading through again & noticed your message above. Are you saying you have a laptop to sell?

Thanks,

Joe

Alan Mancus posted:

windows 7 is the best for MTh upgrades ! windows  10 sometimes does not work right with mth  downloads ? never had a problem with windows 7, and if you need it I can set you up on a window 7  I 7 laptop ! or I can reload your own windows & DCS software tiu remote and flash ps3 engines!

Alan

Just wondering but what issues have you run into using Windows 10? I use Windows 10 and Chrome and haven't run into any issues updating either my TIU (revision L) and remote or loading sound files to locomotives. I'm just curious if there is something I should be cautious of in the future.

Although I haven't actually came out and asked here, does anyone have a Laptop they are looking to get rid of that is capable of doing the DCS upgrades? I've been searching on ebay, Craigslist & asked family members and have come up short. Well, except for ebay, just not sure what will meet the requirements.

yes I have many laptops send me an email with your cell number n I'll call you! 

Hi Alan, just emailed you my info.

Joe

If you're still looking, here's something to look into; an Acer laptop for $150:

https://www.techconnect.com/ar..._date=20191028183610

I have appreciated this post because I too am a Mac user.  My local hobby shop (Aurora Rails) used to do the upgrades for me, but the owner recently passed away and upgrades are no longer being done there.  So, I am in the same situation as Ironman1.

we Bill if you need any upgrades done or train or  computer repair let me know!

Check your email!

Alan

Hi Bill,

Alan just finished a laptop for me, I'm waiting to receive it but he was very willing to help me out & I have no doubt it's going to do the job.

Joe

Bill Brown posted:

I have appreciated this post because I too am a Mac user.  My local hobby shop (Aurora Rails) used to do the upgrades for me, but the owner recently passed away and upgrades are no longer being done there.  So, I am in the same situation as Ironman1.

somehow I missed the story in this post. I was informed by another member Jim Z, that Ron has passed. Very sad for us all here.

Wouldn't TrainWorld in Brooklyn do the  upgrades for you?  Should be a rather medium length subway ride from Yonkers!  I also use an old Windows XP laptop because I am now a MAC user.  All you have to do is read the instructions very carefully and can't be in a hurry.  Should take about 30 min to do both the devices.  

Update to my TIU upgrade. I recently purchased a used Toshiba Laptop with Windows 7 professional installed. 

I jumped the gun weeks ago & purchased a USB to 9 pin serial cable on ebay. The laptop arrived yesterday & I updated both of my ver. 3.1 TIU's to ver 6.1 without a hitch.

I have not been able to update the remote. Once I hit start to begin the remote update, at the bottom of the window, for about 2 minutes the message: "unlocking TIU...searching for TIU" flashes on & off. Finally a window pops up reading WARNING: The program is having a hard time finding a TIU connected. Confirm that all connections are correct andcycle power on the TIU. I went through this process multiple times, same result.

I would think if the TIU updated no problem, with all the connections required, the remote should also. I have a feeling it's the serial cable. Has anyone had this experience or have an explanation?

Thanks,

Joe

Make sure phone cable from remote to tiu is 4 conductor not 2. Most dollar store cords are only 2 wires in a 4 terminal plug. The order of pushing and holding the remote power button thru the process is also critical.

You can force the Consumer Loader software to use a serial port that you specify. First, go to to the device manager and identify which COM port your USB to serial adapter has been assigned by your computer. then in the Loader software, select the Option drop down from the menu bar, click on Serial Port and select the serial port you identified in the Device manager earlier.

NYCBuffalo posted:

Make sure phone cable from remote to tiu is 4 conductor not 2. Most dollar store cords are only 2 wires in a 4 terminal plug. The order of pushing and holding the remote power button thru the process is also critical.

Also make sure that the 3.5mm audio plug link from the Protocast & Protodispatch is disconnected.

I'll try to manually select the serial port. I know it's 4. I bought the phone cable over 10 years ago, how can I tell its a 4 conductor?

ironman1 posted:

I'll try to manually select the serial port. I know it's 4. I bought the phone cable over 10 years ago, how can I tell its a 4 conductor?

If it's a curly cord, you have about a 99% chance that it is a 4 wire cord.

When I purchased all the required extras for doing upgrades I'm sure I was very careful on purchasing exactly what MTH recommended from Radio Shack, & it is a curly cord. I'll try selecting the port now.

I tried manually selecting the port, tried 3 different ports. No joy. So back to the original question, after pressing stop has anyone EVER seen this message: "unlocking TIU...searching for TIU" flashing on & off. Once again, both TIU's updated without a hitch.

I just tried on my laptop without connecting anything so the software was setup to fail and I couldn't get that message.

So this is a mystery.

Yep, I'm trying to recreate this condition, there's got to be a reason!

ironman1 posted:

I'll try to manually select the serial port. I know it's 4. I bought the phone cable over 10 years ago, how can I tell its a 4 conductor?

You should see 4 wires at the end of the cord.  I just use the house wall phone.

Yep, still have one and it works.  I love it when my kids friends ask, "What it that?"

Have Fun!
Ron

Yes, I do have the right phone cord. That can't be the issue. When I start the update the computer can not locate the TIU.

If the computer could see the TIU when updating it, no reason why it shouldn't see it when trying to update the remote. Here's some things to check

First, as noted above, you must not have the stereo cord connected to the TIU when doing this job. 

Second, the fact that there are 4 contacts on the end of the phone cord does not mean that there are 4 conductors.  The plugs all have 4 (or 6), but the handset only needs 2 wires. (I'm inclined to think this is probably the problem)

Third, check the contact fingers in TIU and remote to make sure they are straight. 

Fourth, after each unsuccessful effort, close out the program action on the computer, POWER DOWN the TIU, and then start from scratch.

Fifth, if when updating the TIU, you had Port 4, that is probably the one to select when doing the remote. 

You can verify the phone cord if you have a multimeter.  Set it to read ohms.  Touch one probe to one of the terminals at one end, and then with the other probe touch each of the probes at the other end.  One, and only one, should show continuity.  Then try each of the terminals at the first end and do the same.

This is what's happening. Please see attached.

I have seen that, having been doing upgrades since the beginnings of DCS.  I really do think it's a phone cord issue. Try what I recommended.

Finally an acknowledgement. I don't have a multi meter. Can I try a different cord? I can disconnect the one attached to my phone & try that?

Thanks,

Joe

ironman1 posted:

Finally an acknowledgement. I don't have a multi meter. Can I try a different cord? I can disconnect the one attached to my phone & try that?

Thanks,

Joe

Yep Joe, Go for it. Just make sure it is a curly cord that goes from the phone base to the handset.  The cord that comes from the wall and goes to the phone base has a wider connector that won't fit into the DCS remote.

All these years of upgrading these systems and I have never had a bad phone cord!

Had the same problem updating my TIU and Remote. The download worked fine after I finally got the correct phone cord.

I hope its the phone cord!

If near a Harbor Freight, I recommend their cheapest multimeter.  Occasionally free with coupon.  Accurate enough for model RR work.

What doesn't make sense to me is why did 2 TIU's update without a problem? There was no searching for TIU with that update. To do the remotes I simply removed the audio cables from the TIU. Everything else remained the same then connected the phone cable to the TIU then to the remote.

Because with the stereo plug removed and no connection to a remote, tiu doesn't signal its presence. One or the other, but not both, is needed.

The USB to 9 pin serial adapter I am using came with a CD to install the driver for the device. Is there a chance that the driver installation is causing an issue?

Ironman, trust me, unless you changed something, the fact that you were able to upgrade the TIUs means all connections are correct.

Have you checked all the stupid mistakes?  From personal  experience I can pose such questions as:  Is the TIU powered up, when the instructions say so?  Is the red light on in the TIU?  Are all the finger contacts in TIU & remote straight?  Is the stereo cord removed?  Is the remote turned on?  Do you power down the TIU after a bad try, and then turn it on again?

I have two phone cords in my Liitle Jiffy DCS Upgrade box (along with other goodies like a special spring clamp to hold the remote button down).  Occasionally one or the other just won't work?  I am 99-44/100th sure that your problem is the phone cord---either 2-conductor or failed conductor or bad connection. 

I have followed every suggestion posted here. I purchased a used laptop, 4 serial cables & one new phone cable. I believe I started this whole mess by simply asking for someone local who can do DCS upgrades. I don't want to ship if possible or drive 4 hours+. I successfully upgraded 2 TIU's but have hit a brick wall with the remote! I have made at least 20 attempts, watched the video dozens of times & I clearly must be an IDIOT!

I think I'm done!

Okay so I read through the previous posts here and there is a couple things I think we need to double check. 

Ironman said " I simply removed the audio cables from the TIU. Everything else remained the same then connected the phone cable to the TIU then to the remote." and RJR said "Is the remote turned on?".

When upgrading the remote you start with the remote being off. When prompted you will need to hold the power button on the remote down during the entire update process until the computer tells you that it is complete.  The remote will not display anything during this process, I have had troubles with this if the remote batteries are weak so I always make sure they are fresh before I start.

The last thing I want to make sure about is the which icon you are clicking on in the software to send the code to the remote. There are separate icons for the TIU and the remote.

I've made this mistake before and beat my head a few times before I figured what I was doing wrong.

Edit: I looked at your previous screenshots and you are clicking the right icon.

Ironman, how do you know that the new phone cord is 4-conductor?  Counting the contacts on the plugs is meaningless.

H1000 has good points. 

I used to do upgrades at York.  Some updates were a little more difficult.

RJR posted:

Ironman, how do you know that the new phone cord is 4-conductor?  Counting the contacts on the plugs is meaningless.

Actually, if the contacts are there in a commercial cord, the wires are usually there as well.  FWIW, I don't know that I've ever found a curly handset cord with less than all four wires, so it's somewhat of a moot point.

As for holding the button on the remote for the whole update, that's a non-starter for me.  I have a little spring clamp with a nice dimple that presses the power button.  You don't know how long six or seven minutes is until you've had to hold your thumb on something with pressure for the entire time.

Another point, I have yet to see a remote that doesn't ask you to cycle power a least one extra time before the update starts.  That's always been a mystery to me, and when I mentioned it to Barry some time back, he acknowledged that was an oddity that he couldn't explain either.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

RJR posted:

Ironman, how do you know that the new phone cord is 4-conductor?  Counting the contacts on the plugs is meaningless.

Actually, if the contacts are there in a commercial cord, the wires are usually there as well.  FWIW, I don't know that I've ever found a curly handset cord with less than all four wires, so it's somewhat of a moot point.

 

2 Wire contact cords are out there John.  I had one and it took me two days to figure out I had the wrong cord.  Once I figured that out, I threw it away so as not to make that mistake again.  Here is my lessons learned post from 2017 on DCS Upgrades.

https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/...time-and-aggravation

Have Fun!

Ron

I just be lucky.  I've used at least a dozen assorted curly cords for upgrades in various locations, never ran across a 2-wire one.  Since the basic design of the standard telephone handset requires four wires, one has to wonder what those cords were designed for.

It's been many decades, but when all phones were made by Western Electric/Ma Bell, I'm no so sure the handset had 4 wires

By the time they got to modular cords for the handsets, I never saw anything but 4-wire cords.  A couple of the cords I use for upgrades are old cords from real WE phones that got "retired" in favor of wireless stuff around 30 years ago.  When I was recycling the phones I kept the handset cords.  Must be the pack-rat in me.

When I was doing upgrades with Barry's Bunch up at York before the DCS meeting, I came across one that not only would not upgrade, but it locked up and wouldn't unlock.  That's when I stopped doing upgrades at York---didn't want to be responsible. 

I think the cause may have been a bug in the upgrade software or the operational software which had just come out that morning.  Which gives me an idea:  think ironman should re-download the loader software?

I have been following this thread from day one. If a model railroader was thinking about adding DCS to their layout.  Would all this wiring & update chaos scare them away? 🚂

Gary

trainroomgary posted:

I have been following this thread from day one. If a model railroader was thinking about adding DCS to their layout.  Would all this wiring & update chaos scare them away? 🚂

Gary

Too much for me. I'll stick with Legacy.

DennyM posted:

Too much for me. I'll stick with Legacy.

Hi Denny: Here’s the deal….  I am all in on DCS. My layout has no Lionel Legacy.  I am 80% DCS & 20% LionChief Plus on a large layout. I am also a big time user of MTH DCS Wi-Fi and try never to use the handheld controller.

Gary 🚂

I am old enough to recall when modelers didn't like those newfangled E-units

Yes, I agree that all the issues & suggestions to correct the problem I'm having can potentially scare a new customer away.  I've avoided upgrading a 3rd TIU & Remote (TIU ver. 3.1 & Remote ver. 4.2) since those are the ones I use for my layout & have been working okay for over 10 years, a bug or 2 once in awhile. Once I get the other issue figured out I migrate the updated with the older. Last thing I want is for my RR is to stop functioning!

Because I've tried 2 different TIU's & 2 different remotes & the same issue, "unlocking TIU...searching for TIU" comes up every time I think I'm going to try to re-download the software, eventually. I think I may take a break today.

I'm reasonably happy at the moment because what started this was somehow I could not locate a favorite engine, that was running fine, in my system & was not able to recover it with TIU ver. 3.1. With 2 TIU's now at ver. 6.1 I was able to recover the engine & it is running on my layout!

Thanks everyone for all the suggestions, I need to digest what has been posted here. I will be following and considering any other suggestions that may follow. If I am successful at some point, I will make an announcement & the cure!

Joe

"One swallow does not a summer make."  -- Aristotle

So with the thousands of DCS units out there functioning happily, the fact that one person is having a problem, which does not appear to be a DCS problem so much as a connection problem, means one should stay away from DCS?  I think I have had more problems with Windows over the years than with DCS, but does that mean I should have stuck with IBMDOS?

Every MTH command system version ever issued is upgradeable to the very latest version.  Can that be said for all the systems Lionel has issued over the years?

Don't get me wrong, I love DCS. I mentioned earlier it was MTH & DCS that turned the corner for me. Legacy got me into Lionel again & I use them both on the same layout.

There seems to be more than a couple of issues, possibly user error for one, that's keeping me from upgrading my remotes. Computer, Windows, the cables, who knows. I tried a number of the suggestions here. I am by no means an expert & tried all of the easiest fixes first, many times. It's crazy to keep buying cables when that may not be the problem. I haven't tried a different computer, don't have one available or re-downloading all the MTH upgrades. I tried downloading last night & I believe the message window said something in regards to the item already is on the computer. So I stopped. For me, the problem is I am mostly computer illiterate with computer hardware and software & have no way to know for sure how to proceed to check.

Time for a break!

Ironman, I didn't have you in mind when I wrote my last post.

As I have said many times above, it is VERY doubtful that the issue is your computer or the USB-serial adapter, since you were able to do the TIUs.  I have upgraded many remotes over the years, besides my own 5.  Some were BEARS.

In what geographic area are you?

I live in Yonkers, New York.

If you want to bring it to our club in Paterson I will update it for you for free

Can't top Ben's offer I suspect.

Hi BLUELINEC4 (Ben?),

Totally unrelated, my daughter is getting married next Saturday & the next few days will be a little helter skelter. Thank you for the offer & if I don't get it figured out in the next day or 2 I will take you up on your offer. I honestly hope I can figure this out either way since it's driving me crazy.

One thing I'd like to know, RJR mentioned he's upgraded many remotes but some were bears. Wondering what that means exactly & what were the issues & remedies.

Joe

Some are a bit more balky than others, but I hesitate to call any of them "bears".  Usually, the issue is holding down the power switch or having the proper cabling connected properly.I've probably done 50-60 of them, and I've never had one that was REALLY difficult.  I have had a couple that took a few tries on the power switch to finally get the update going.

The bears took many tries.  Only one could not be done.  One issue I have never solved, and it could be bad internal connections, is occasionally a cord that has always worked won't work, and the other does, and later the first works again.

If you take blue up on his offer, be sure to bring all your stuff--cables, tiu, remote--so they can try to duplicate the problem.

Congratulations on the wedding.  Hope he likes trains

Thanks RJR! If I don't figure it out I certainly will follow up with blue.

My future son-in law appreciates the trains but he's not an enthusiast. It may come it time if there are grand kids.

"It may come it time if there are grand kids"

That's why I have 4 remotes at my house--and we'd still run out of remotes.  The 5th remote is on a grandson's layout.

I already have 2 grandsons, Hudson 4 1/2 & Mac 2 1/2, both enthusiastic about trains. I got them jumpstarted with Max Fleisher's "Play Safe", the Polar Express & Thomas the Tank Engine. There Dad drifted away from trains when sports came into the picture. For now, it's something we enjoy doing together.

trainroomgary posted:

DennyM posted:

Too much for me. I'll stick with Legacy.

Hi Denny: Here’s the deal….  I am all in on DCS. My layout has no Lionel Legacy.  I am 80% DCS & 20% LionChief Plus on a large layout. I am also a big time user of MTH DCS Wi-Fi and try never to use the handheld controller.

Gary 🚂

Hi Gary,

You gotta go with what makes you happy. I have one LC+ switcher. Everything else is Legacy, TMCC and Electric Railroad. I run some conventional too.