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I was wondering if anyone could point me to some tutorials or YouTube videos on how to place and make some old weathered painted signs that you used to see on large brick walls on the fronts and sides of stores and warehouses?

The side I have to work on my present project is the full brick side of an Ameritowne three story structure. I’ve already painted and slightly weathered it with mortar, but not yet sprayed the dull coat over it. Is this something I need to plan on the next building during the early stages of painting? Or is this something that is done at this stage where I’m at now? If it's too late for signage, maybe some suggestions on how to make some awnings for it. I'll be placing some fire escapes, vents and a water tank on top soon as well.

At the time, I haven't decided what to call it. Open to suggestions on what you would find in a green building. Lol.......Green was the only spare paint I hand on hand when I painted this one. Can't say I'm too crazy about it either. lol
 
  


Thanks much,

Last edited by Kenny Taylor
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Kenny,

 

Here's one way:

 

You can print a copy of the sign from one of the various websites that specialize in old advertising posters. Reduce the thickness of the paper by lightly sanding the rear with extra-fine sand paper. I find it easier to do this sanding before cutting the sign from the full sheet of printer paper. Trim the sign to size, and apply a thin coat of full-strength white glue to the rear. Wait a few minutes for the paper to soften; then apply the sign to your building. Now, press the surface of the sign into the embossed bricks of your building with your fingertips. Don't rub, but continue pressing until you see the brick pattern appearing across the entire sign.

Allow the glue to set, then lightly brush on some ground-up chalk or weathering powder that is similar to the color of the bricks. Use your fingertip to rub the powder lightly across the surface of the sign. With practice you will be able to color portions of the surface to represent fading and peeling paint while allowing the recessed mortar lines to retain the color of the sign.

 

Past9

 

 

Jim

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  • Past9
Originally Posted by Jim Policastro:

Harry,

 

I intend to try that method when I finally get around to obtaining the Photoshop software. Sounds good.

 

JIm

As we all know, Photoshop is pricey. I don't know if "Photoshop Elements" the lower priced stripped down version also has these features. There is a reference at the source which indicates there is a free program capable of accomplishing the same effect.

 

if u follow jim policastro's time tested method (has worked for me every time) one other thing u can do is very lightly run your fingernail over the sign along each brick mortar line. this will really help sink the sign into the bricks. u have to let the glue set a few minutes to avoid having it too wet and tearing the sign but even when I've ripped it a bit it still looked great, just older.

jerrman
p.s. that bldg. always looked like it might have offices. how about insurance, accountant, travel agency, bank, private detective:-) or a vet. if u did a travel agency u could put all kinds of travel ads in windows, plus a travel billboard on top. for a vet, there are lots of dogs u could show thru the windows. jerrman
Originally Posted by Jim Policastro:

Joe,

 

I'm not sure about sending extra thin paper through my printer. It grabs the paper pretty violently - not sure if onion skin would survive without creasing or worse.

 

Jim

I was thinking about this and probably worth a shot.

 

If you can get some onion skin and you use an ink jet printer where the paper path is straight through - like Epson does, you can cut a piece of onion skin perhaps and inch all around smaller. Then take the onion skin and scotch tape it at the leading edge to a piece of regular paper. You should run the scotch tape completely across the onion skin so the OS doesn't catch on anything on the way through. Place that piece on top and see if it will run through.

 

Thanks for each of your replies. Tonight is my first off night and I've been pouring over my software trying to see how I can make a sign. I do have a full version of Photoshop , but it's been years since I've played in it.

Our county was founded around the old L&N railroad from German settlers. The ideas are growing about what some of my next projects may could be projected in that time period. We actually still have the first L&N depot in use as today by CSX. Seems like it's used as a museum. While looking at Cullman's historical website tonight, I found a old three story structure that used to be a old hotel. Oddly enough, the family is still in business today with other types of stores.

Do you guys think a black signs like on the Richter's Hotel would look appealing as is on the picture on this link?

 

Can't figure out how to add the link, so here it is copied below.

 

 

http://www.cullmancity.org/Photos.htm

Kenny, a couple of thoughts here. If photoshop is a pain, all you have to do is go to Google Image for the sign you want (or go to a number of great sign websites like www.trainweb.org/tylick/signintro.htm in which you'll see a number of categories and dozens and dozens of signs to print out) and put the image in Word. You can then size them when you print it out. Easy. 

 

Or, Google "Ghost Decals O scale" as SIRT suggested. You'll see some great water decal signs for sale very inexpensively. And they're already weathered and faded. 

 

As far as the black sign with white letters on the Richters hotel, it will look great. I've used that idea many times and it always stands out graphically. 

 

Hope this helps. 

 

Jerrman

GIMP (windows, Mac, Linux) is free software - I loaded it on my Linux Ubuntu Laptop and it is very nice. I have not loaded it on my Mac, but might do it when I get my new Mac.  My current Mac is getting old and full.  On the Mac there is a program "Pixelmator" (in the app store)  is it $29.99 and you could make Ghost decals like Harry suggests with Photoshop very easily.

Whew, why I didn't think that thin paper would be more delicate. Lol.....maybe once the glue dries a bit more I can do some damage control. I've never used chalks before either so might have ot pick some of those up. Perhaps some dull coat will bring it down some too. Lol, but either way, yeah.......I'm going ot have some fun with this.

 

Mr. Doyle, Mr. Policastro and Mr. Jerrman, I'm worse than a women when it comes to changing my mind. While I still may put the hotel sign up sometime, I couldn't pass up trying this one.

 

You guys are awesome and I am thankful for your mentorship.

 

Last edited by Kenny Taylor

This building; and like the first few I've built was only intended to be used as skill builders. So I figured I would take another stab at this from the back side. I kinda wished I would have used the exacto knife and trimmed out the lil man above the gum pack. Never the less, I do like the idea of doing these. I think perhaps on this one I should have thinned the paper down just a lil bit more.

 

I'm wondering how it would look if I were to tape off the brick and do a very light dusting of the green brick color with my airbrush to make it look like it's been painted over. Is that a technique any of you use?

 

 

 

Kenny

Kenny, they're looking pretty darn good. With respect to your airbrush idea, yes, that might work if you go lightly. What I and a lot of modelers do is "dry brush" the brick color on the ad (dry brushing, if you're not familiar with the technique, is putting a little paint on the end of a soft, flat brush, wiping almost all off on a paper towel until almost nothing comes off, then lightly brushing with vertical strokes. You can see the remnants of the paint go on very very slowly and easily control it based on how much pressure you put on the brush. This will make the ad fade more into the brick and seem more like it's painted on. You can also try some white/off white with the same technique and that will give it a old faded look). 

 

Jerrman

Thanks for the previous help regarding the wall murals. Today, I purchase a basic chalk kit from Hobby Lobby and got them looking a bit better without having to paint. The dull coat spray however, really brought out some scratches that I was hoping to keep hid. I understand now why you should not sand on the colored surface.

 

 

So with that completed, and rather than clutter up the forum with a new thread, I’ll just continue this one.

 

Moving on to the next phase, I was wondering if I should have purchased a separate ladder for this fire escape. Since I don’t have a platform on the ground level, which way do I need to glue this? To me it looks odd if I continue the bottom steps at the same angle that the upper steps are as they would then just kinda point out to no where. But then again, if I glue it up and down vertical, it looks odd since these are steps rather than a ladder with rungs. At this stage, I’m not particularly worried about being prototypical as much as I just want it to look somewhat appealing to the eye on the layout later.

 

And lastly since this is new plastic, do I need to prime before spaying it black? I would assume that you would need to just like any other and also, would it be better if I took a Dremel tool and slightly burrowed down to the plastic when I eventually get ready to attach this to the building? I’ve never glued anything to a painted surface before and not sure how the cement will hold. I’m using plastruc plastic weld.

 

 

Obviously you can tell the steps are upside down, but I thought it would look better since the other end is angled for fit in another platform. I figured if I glue them in this way, I can snip out the steps so that there will be access. I didn't see this coming, or I would have looked around and purchased a regular ladder. Below in the last picture the steps come down to the level of the lower window seal.

 

 

The angle of the picture is somewhat distorted by my point and shoot camera, but I think you can get the idea of what I'm needing.

 

After giving it a bit of thought, I was wondering how this would look?

 

 

Thanks again,

 

Kenny

Last edited by Kenny Taylor

I think the vertical position looks a bit odd considering they're stairs, not a ladder. If it's at the same position of the upper one, I think it would be fine if the end would be low enough for a man to pull it down when needed. If not, maybe add a "rope" so that it looks like it could be pulled down with that. 

 

I always prime first, then paint particularly on plastic. Better adhesion. 

 

I'd be careful about using a dremel tool. Those fire escapes are pretty fragile. Prime, paint, then add a little rust powder in key places. 

 

For gluing, if your glue works, great. The paint actually gives it some "tooth" and something more to adhere to. Otherwise, I'm sure ACC medium density glue will work very well. 

 

Jerrman

 

Thanks Mr. Jerrman.

 

I think I’m gonna call it quits for tonight and sleep on what color to paint those fire escapes, roof vents and water tank. The only dark paints I have on hand is Grimy Black and UP Dark Grey. I was half tempted to just leave the roof stuff the color of the primer. All this stuff is pretty subjective to person to person I guess. I usually lay down a thick coat of acrylic black artist paint and sprinkle a mixture of fine black and grey ballast the tar and gravel roof tops.

 

I just got the escapes propped up on there for the picture. You think with a short rope hanging, it would be somewhat realistic? Eventually I will be ordering more plastics and can order a ladder then, but I do have a primed set of steps ready to glue and use. Lol

 

 

Till the next off nights roll around see you guys, thanks again to each of your help.

 

 

Kenny

I use the Tichy Group Fire Excapes as well. Nice product, reasonable price.

 

I prime them, then paint them flat black. After drying, I "mist" them with with combinations of Tuscan, Red Lead and Roof Brown to get a rusty kind of look. You can also apply small amount of Baking Soda in areas where you want to give the appearance of deteriorating rust and paint over it. After applying those misted coats, I give it a little more flat black.

 

You want to streak some rust color down the side of the building where the supports are anchored in to the wall.

 

If you're going for a real run down, dilapidated look you can apply a flame to the under side causing the plastic to slightly bend. Got to be careful to get it just out of reach of the flame so it because pliable, but doesn't collapse.

 

Originally Posted by Harry Doyle:

you can apply a flame to the under side causing the plastic to slightly bend. Got to be careful to get it just out of reach of the flame so it because pliable, but doesn't collapse.

 


Haha, Somehow I feel I better not press my luck at this point in the game. Sadly, I don't have any of those colors you mentioned. Grrrr, and I just ordered 5 new bottles for the next project. I think the only thing close to rust that I have on hand is some Model Masters burnt seinna. As for Polly Scale paints I have some red colors that are Special Oxide red, Boxcar red and D&RGW Frt car red which is almost the same color as the boxcar red. Something may could be done with those, but I have my doubts.

 

I do have a few coming in the next few days for my next project which one of them may work ok. 

 

    flof414134   1 Polly Scale Undercoat Light Gray 1 oz         

    flof414161   1 Polly Scale Pennsylvania Railroad Maroon 1 oz   

    flof414311   1 Polly Scale Earth 1 oz         

    flof414314   1 Polly Scale Mud 1 oz         

    flof414323   1 Polly Scale Rust 1 oz         

 

If those don't work, I guess this now gives me a new excuse to order some more paints, and perhaps some chalk up from Bragdon. You can never have too much right? lol

 

You guys have been invaluable with the mentorship you provide. It's the effort that you guys put in helping those of us new to the hobby that enables us to get the boost we need to keep it fun. I hope someday to be skilled enough to return the favor.

 

***Four hours past bedtime later***

 

Sleep is so over rated. Who needs it? Decided to go ahead and make a mess. Why not? lol I'll have to work on the rust and other bits on another day. Thanks again guys for your help today.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 Gnite folks,

 

Kenny

Last edited by Kenny Taylor
Originally Posted by Avanti:

Actually, I don't think you need or want the rope.  As I understand it, that style of fire escape is designed to drop from the weight of a person climbing down. They are deliberately kept out of reach to discourage people from climbing on them.

I think it looks great as it is.

--Pete

I agree with Pete. The fire escape looks great as is. No rope needed. In fact the whole building is taking on a terrific look as you progress. As far as the rust idea on the fire escapes, I generally do what Harry's does, spray black and then a light misting of rust. You don't need an airbrush, you can do it with spray cans. The Wal-Mart cans are good for this as the spray is very fine with little pigment. They have flat black, primer gray and primer rust colors. They're about $1.00 each. If you use this technique, when you spray the rust, do it from a distance of 12-18" so you get a very light mist.

 

Another trick is after the black sub-coat dries, use a fine spray bottle and mist with water. Then immediately spray with the rust. You'll get a random rust effect after it dries.

 

Harry's idea of the baking soda is great for a really textured rust effect. If you have any rust powder color, you can get a similar effect by lightly dipping your brush into some water, then into some rust powder, then apply by dabbing, not brushing it on places where   metal parts meet, like the railings and the stair supports. 

 

Great job so far, Kenny. 

 

Jerrman

My other paints came in a day or so ago, and now I think I will try to tackle putting some light rust on the walls below these fire escapes. I'm really unsure if I should use chalk here, or the paints, combination of paint mixes or chalk and paint. As you can see, I don't have the Bragdon weathering stuff. Wish I did though. If you guys think it would be best to get the right stuff from Bragdon, that's not a big deal either since I was going to try to place a order with them next week sometime anyway.

 

What product and technique would you guys suggest for adding rust to the walls? Harry mentioned streaking some rust down the sides of the walls, but I was unsure how to actually apply this product. A few drops of a wash, or to use a dry brush? I hate to goof this thing up now.

 

Last edited by Kenny Taylor

Kenny, with a hobby knife, just scrape off some chalk from the color you want on to a paper towel. Then apply lightly with a dry very soft brush (a rounded edge make-up brush works very well but a soft rounded paint brush is fine) to see how you like it. Apply vertically only. If you do, you can always apply more. 

 

The wet technique (dipping a brush into a little water then into the powder) is better for use on "metals" (like the fire escapes) to indicate rust that is peeling because it will create a textured rust effect. 

 

Jerrman

Well, unlike the risk in my job and technical diving where a slip up can easily cost a life, I always told myself I was going to approach this hobby with the idea that the worst thing a slip up would do is at most cost you a kit. However my same motto holds true that you can never rely on experience until shortly after you needed it.

 

Until 30 minutes ago, I'm not sure what was on the top five list of things never to do, but it's safe to say I've discovered a new # 1 and # 2 if there was ever any to begin with.

 

1. NEVER alow your inexpereinced hands to be within 5 feet of a paint brush with wet paint if your intent is to weather something.

2. NEVER say WTH, it can't get any worse....Wrong....See rule #1

 

I'm too embarrassed to even take a picture.

 

3. NEVER again!

 

Kenny! I am working on AmeriTown buildings as well but not yet to the stage of signage but your questions and the responses will be helpful when I get there as well. One question I had for you was where did you get the fire escape/landing and ladders etc? I'm looking at adding some exterior features like those and possibly spouting as well.

Nice job on your building. I've just completed about 12 of them but without signage.I use Gorilla Super Glue (Impact-Tough formula) in small bottle. Works well and bonds in no time. Should work well for your experior ladders etc without making any holes in the bricks. Bought at WalMart

I followed the advice above and it seemed to work great. The first sign I did, I kinda goofed it up, but the second went on ok. I should have sanded it down a bit thinner, and next time I will try to do so. I just used regular white glue smeared on with a Q-tip and pressed into the brick using a sammage bag as directed above. Just make sure you be careful moving your finger from side to side. I tried to ham fist mine in and it tore on me.

 

I took a bunch of pictures along the way. I take them not necessarily for show and tell stuff, but to help me along the way and after the project is completed to see how I can improve my skills. It’s also nice at night when I’m at work to mull over the images to see what maybe I can do differently. You may wish to take a peek here for a look at some pictures. Boring stuff to anyone but train lovers. Lol They do make it easier when discussing things on the forums as I can readily show someone what I’m talking about.This is only my 4th structure ever to build, so I'm not even out of the crib yet with learning proper techniques. The pictures for this building is at the end of the gallery. Please don't laugh to hard when you see the screwed up results of some of them. Lol

 

As for the stuff on the green building, I found those items at Valley Model Trains. They have quite a few suppliers on their site. I can’t comment on price comparability as I’m still too new into the hobby to know good prices from bad.

 

Below are the items and numbers for them. All are under the O scale category.

 

Roof Vents for industrial buildings:   Rix Products          620-610          7.15

Rooftop water tank with stand:        Buildings Unlimited         92-37          5.95

Fire Escapes:         Tichy Train Group       293-2043          4.95         

Fire Plugs for buildings:          Berkshire Valley          165-515          4.00

 

 

Hope these help.

 

 

 

Kenny

Last edited by Kenny Taylor
Originally Posted by Kenny Taylor:

Well, unlike the risk in my job and technical diving where a slip up can easily cost a life, I always told myself I was going to approach this hobby with the idea that the worst thing a slip up would do is at most cost you a kit. However my same motto holds true that you can never rely on experience until shortly after you needed it.

 

Until 30 minutes ago, I'm not sure what was on the top five list of things never to do, but it's safe to say I've discovered a new # 1 and # 2 if there was ever any to begin with.

 

1. NEVER alow your inexpereinced hands to be within 5 feet of a paint brush with wet paint if your intent is to weather something.

2. NEVER say WTH, it can't get any worse....Wrong....See rule #1

 

I'm too embarrassed to even take a picture.

 

3. NEVER again!

 

Well, I have no idea how bad it is (although weathering on bricks should be done dry so you can do it lightly and then gradually darker), but no worries. Whatever you did, you can fix it. If it's paint that "ruined" the weathering technique, just let it dry and than reapply your original base green color. Should hide whatever you don't like. After that, use the dry chalk technique and you'll be on your way again. Good luck!

 

Jerrman

Tis is true, and now looking back at it as I was running to the kitchen sink to wash it off......Yeah, I actually tried. lol

 

Trystan was on my heals asking..Did you mess it up Unckle Kenny, did you? Huh? What did you do, let me see, can I try?..........All the time I was trying not to say things a three year old needs to hear.

 

Oh well, I know better next time. Lol

 

Kenny

 

 

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