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I recently took delivery of a new Camelback Blue Comet 770.  I'm having problems with audio not working.  My layout is a modest 4X8 powered by the standard power pack found in a train set.  I control my trains with a Universal remote, what few locos I have are also connected via bluetooth, but I prefer the universal remote.

The 770 is connected to the Universal and will operate the train, but not the voice commands or bells and whistle.  I'm new at this and this loco is a step above the basic trains I have from buying starter sets.  Will the universal work if the bluetooth is on?  I have tried it in both positions but no dice.

Perhaps I need to hold and press a button somewhere for 5 seconds or something?

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@BamaRider posted:

Still the same.  No activated sounds via app or universal remote, throttle works fine. 

So you have background sounds?

check the IR connection between the locomotive and tender of that is out of alignment you won’t get anything. A good indication of weather or not it’s reviving data is when you hear chuffing sounds



while I hope to help a simple fix if this gets too in depth be prepared to contact your dealer or Lionel as they should make anything incorrect right

The power pak that comes in the starter set.  I'm new at this and don't know anything, the locomotive runs fine but no sounds, but when the loco is disconnected from the tender I have idle sounds, but no activated sounds from the app or universal.  The manual gives instructions how to make the horn work (press the button) but nothing happens. 

Perhaps I am doing something wrong?  I'd rather not send it back to Lionel, but I paid a bunch of money for it, so will if I have to. 

@KOOLjock1 posted:

Hopefully you won't tell us you're using a little DC wall-wart plugged directly into the track...

Jon

That's exactly what it sounds like. Lionchief starter sets use a DC power supply which will work with any LC, LC+ or LC+ 2.0 but not Legacy.

Legacy locomotives run on AC power only. I would not try to run your Legacy model in that environment until your issue is resolved to prevent damage to your locomotive.

The folks on this forum will be great help for you to get what you need. I run DCS with a Z1000 transformer with a TIU and Wifi unit for bluetooth and phone app use for both Lionel and MTH trains.

You need a transformer that will supply the AC power you need but there are more experienced folks here that may have better advice.

Brad

Last edited by B rad

Please help I don't know anything about Legacy trains.   I bought this train thinking I had everything to make it work.  I have a modest layout this is my first train that is above basic. 

If I bought a CW 80 transformer and a CAB1 remote, would I have everything to make it work?

Will my train work if I have CW 80 transformer with the basic Universal remote?

As we've mentioned above, a Legacy engine needs AC power to the track.  Starter sets are designed to run on either AC or DC, and come with much cheaper DC power supplies.  You will need SOME kind of AC transformer.  A CW-80, BW-80, GW-180, or almost any Post War AC output transformer will do.

If you wish to run in Command Mode, you'll need a CAB-1/Command Base set.  If you wish to run it in full Legacy mode, you'll need either the CAB-1L/1LCommand Base, or the #990 Legacy Base/CAB-2.

Jon

I’ll 2nd Jon’s comment

In this case if you like the universal remote, it’ll work just fine. But you do NEED a standard AC Transformer. Just about anything will work, keep in mind if you use a post war transformer you need to add the circuit protection and there’s a number of other threads explaining that.
If your looking at new transformers a CW-80 will definitely do it, if you think you may expand one day might look into a GW-180. And really if you don’t have any standard conventional locomotives there’s no need for the transformer handle and you could just use a 180W PowerHouse, to say the least there’s a number of different ways to skin this cat.

Get your new Legacy locomotive running correctly then you can decide if your going more into TMCC/LEGACY. I’d avoid a original Cab-1 as there’s better options now. If you want to get your toes wet I’d recommend getting a Cab-1L set.

@Dave Olson posted:

The new Legacy and LionChief Plus 2.0 engine boards can operate on both AC and DC, but the audio board (RSL4) in the tender cannot. It only operates on AC. That's why you have engine control but no sound control.

I'm curious in command why the requirement for AC?  The first thing in the line of power is a bridge rectifier, it would seem that it would work with AC or DC for command.  I can see why you need AC for conventional.

I'm curious in command why the requirement for AC?  The first thing in the line of power is a bridge rectifier, it would seem that it would work with AC or DC for command.  I can see why you need AC for conventional.

We've made a running change to the RSL4 that will make it function on DC. The first engine that will have it is the 2-10-10-2 and then the engines in 2021C2. It wasn't part of our original goal to make it work on DC, so it's nice we were able to get it there.

Bear in mind that on DC power, only Bluetooth is functional. There's no Legacy control or conventional control.

@Dave Olson posted:

We've made a running change to the RSL4 that will make it function on DC. The first engine that will have it is the 2-10-10-2 and then the engines in 2021C2. It wasn't part of our original goal to make it work on DC, so it's nice we were able to get it there.

Bear in mind that on DC power, only Bluetooth is functional. There's no Legacy control or conventional control.

Dave, that's what confuses me.  Obviously, you folks know the design a lot better than the unwashed masses out here.   I would think that under Legacy control, the only thing you need is power and serial data.  I don't quite understand why that can't be AC or DC.  I don't doubt you have a reason it won't work, just curious as to what it is.

I'm also missing the battery connection on the RSL4 board, all my new steamers with the RSL4 boards have audio dropouts when crossing my Ross double-slip switches as well as a couple of the curved switches.  I managed to fix that problem, but I suspect my fix isn't for everyone as it involves soldering to the RSL4 board.

Last edited by gunrunnerjohn

Dave, that's what confuses me.  Obviously, you folks know the design a lot better than the unwashed masses out here.   I would think that under Legacy control, the only thing you need is power and serial data.  I don't quite understand why that can't be AC or DC.  I don't doubt you have a reason it won't work, just curious as to what it is.

Correct me if I’m wrong but that would be null and void anyway running in DC and the radio board wouldn’t ever see the Legacy 455khz signal.

@zhubl posted:

Correct me if I’m wrong but that would be null and void anyway running in DC and the radio board wouldn’t ever see the Legacy 455khz signal.

Not a problem.  The TMCC signal actually doesn't care what it's sharing the outside track with, AC or DC.  Remember, DCS with their 3.27mhz base frequency runs fine on AC or DC, and they actually use the track as a transmission line, TMCC/Legacy just uses the outside rail as a common for the airborne signal.

Besides, the sound board doesn't see the TMCC signal at all, it just uses serial data.  Getting the Legacy to run on DC would do the trick, job done as far as I can see.

Last edited by gunrunnerjohn
@Dave Olson posted:

The new Legacy and LionChief Plus 2.0 engine boards can operate on both AC and DC, but the audio board (RSL4) in the tender cannot. It only operates on AC. That's why you have engine control but no sound control.

This is very useful information.  I had thought that DC power in 3-rail had gone the way of the dodo.

I'm also missing the battery connection on the RSL4 board, all my new steamers with the RSL4 boards have audio dropouts when crossing my Ross double-slip switches as well as a couple of the curved switches.  I managed to fix that problem, but I suspect my fix isn't for everyone as it involves soldering to the RSL4 board.

If that's the only thing cutting out over the double-slip, consider yourself lucky.  I have seen some impressive amounts of sparks come off my club's double-slip!

I don't routinely have issues with the DSS switches, a couple of things like the RMT BEEP have trouble transitioning them, even with the DZ-1008 relay switching the dead rails.  Depending on the tender roller spacing, a number of the Legacy locomotives have issues.  I know the Vision Line Niagara with it's closely spaced rollers dropped out every time.  That one accepted my YLB, so it was easy to fix.  The new 10-wheelers and the new Camelback with the later RSL4 boards have no battery provisions.  I worked out a fix for mine, but it involves pulling the RSL4 board and connecting an aux cap, something many folks probably won't be all that eager to attempt.

New Legacy Steam Locomotive Sound Issue and Fix



Thank y'all for helping me understand how things work.  Before I spend the money let me ask this.

If I have a CW 80 transformer, can I work my legacy loco with the universal remote?  Or do I have to use the transformer?

I guess the simple question does the CW 80 render the universal remote to dust bin?  Personaly I like the remote.  Lionel doesn't mention this in any of the details posted that I can find.

The lionel rep who advised the reason I have no audio was the tender needed AC power was most helpful, I didn't know that.  I suggest they put that in the manual because I thought something was wrong with the unit itself and was about to send it back.  All I knew was everything else was working fine on the track.

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