NEW AMERICAN FLYER WOOD SIDE REEFERS IN THE LIONEL VOLUME 2 CATALOG

banjoflyer posted:

Here's some Pics of the cars:

  

 

Actually I hope this price increase rise reflects a successful line of cars. Perhaps prior orders showed an avid interest in these cars.

 

A price increase doesn't reflect success, it reflects an increase in production costs be it with design, materials, labor or transportation. 

Success is reflected in that there was enough interest in the first run to produce this run of new roadnames.

Rusty

As long as that's the case, if I were interested in these cars (which I'm not) I'd check with other vendors.  One in Massachusetts has the new reefers listed for 8 bucks less.

Reminds me of a company that imported a brass S Scale GP30 years ago.  When they didn't sell out, they raised the price two or three times.  As far as I know, they still didn't sell out.

Rusty

They still have GP30s in stock Rusty. I'm probably ordering a couple soon. It pains me to pay what they are asking for 20 year old models, but until a 3D printed alternative is available they are the only GP30s out there.

The Lionel American Flyer reefers have Lionel's typically excellent paint jobs. They also feature molded-on ladders and grab irons that won't catch on bulky sweaters, doors that don't open and prevent bugs from crawling in, flat metal bottoms without details that can cause wind resistance, and the simple choice of high-rail wheels only. Yes, these features are reflected in the $5 higher list price than the MTH/SHS reefer models (but only $2 more at Charles Ro) that have all those annoyances; but you get what you pay for. Or is it "you don't get what you pay for"? 

The TCA wood reefer car is cool...

Ben

TOKELLY posted:

The Lionel American Flyer reefers have Lionel's typically excellent paint jobs. They also feature molded-on ladders and grab irons that won't catch on bulky sweaters, doors that don't open and prevent bugs from crawling in, flat metal bottoms without details that can cause wind resistance, and the simple choice of high-rail wheels only. Yes, these features are reflected in the $5 higher list price than the MTH/SHS reefer models (but only $2 more at Charles Ro) that have all those annoyances; but you get what you pay for. Or is it "you don't get what you pay for"? 

I didn't realize they were so far to the "Toy train" side of the continuum. In that case, I'll stick with the MTH SHS tooling. 

I REALLY wish Lionel would offer up 1 new scale piece, and get it right, with the ability to use either scale or Hirail wheels and couplers.  IMHO they should duplicate the awesome Pullman Standard cars that they have in O scale. I would buy a bunch of S scale PS-1s, PS-2s, PS-4s, and PS-5s.

jonnyspeed posted:

Is anyone planning on converting one of these cars to scale operations? Wondering what trucks to use and how difficult installing Kadees will be?

For those of us who were there  in the Dark Days of S, from the late 1960's through the early 1980's, it is an easy conversion.

You make a new floor of sheet ABS or styrene, build up the underframe and bolsters with plastruct structural shapes.   Then you install brake components (either commercial or scatchbuilt from bits of sprue).  Install the kadees, then add American Models trucks and use washers between the bolsters and the trucks to adjust the height of the couplers.   Even easier, if you can find an old ACE conversion floor for AF "house cars", you just add the brake components, trucks and kadees.  

If I have all the components, I can have the underframe ready to spray paint in about an hour (including scatchbuilding the brake components) and have the car ready for the layout when the paint is dry. 

However, it is a lot easier to buy an assembled MTH reefer, strip off the decoration, repaint it and then decorate it with decals from Tichy or transfers from Clover House.   

LittleTommy

Lionel will not produce anything in scale only.  It's because the market is so small.  S totally is too small to spend much on tooling of a new heavyweight passenger car group wt scale length.  We just have to live with the small companies that build scale size stuff Jonathan. 

LittleTommy posted:

jonnyspeed posted:

Is anyone planning on converting one of these cars to scale operations? Wondering what trucks to use and how difficult installing Kadees will be?

For those of us who were there  in the Dark Days of S, from the late 1960's through the early 1980's, it is an easy conversion.

You make a new floor of sheet ABS or styrene, build up the underframe and bolsters with plastruct structural shapes.   Then you install brake components (either commercial or scatchbuilt from bits of sprue).  Install the kadees, then add American Models trucks and use washers between the bolsters and the trucks to adjust the height of the couplers.   Even easier, if you can find an old ACE conversion floor for AF "house cars", you just add the brake components, trucks and kadees.  

A lot of effort for a $47-$65 car.  Was worth the effort for a $5-$10 Gilbert shell back in the day, but as you've indicated, there are better options today for the scale type personality.

However, it is a lot easier to buy an assembled MTH reefer, strip off the decoration, repaint it and then decorate it with decals from Tichy or transfers from Clover House.   

LittleTommy

Besides, I got reefered out some years ago and have sold off most of my SHS billboard reefers, (I kept a select few for various reasons) especially since the billboard reefers don't really fit modelling my modelling era.  Railroad owned or more contemporary privately leased/owned reefers are a different matter.

Still, I think these cars will do well with the Flyer guys.

Rusty

Roundhouse Bill posted:

Lionel will not produce anything in scale only.  It's because the market is so small.  S totally is too small to spend much on tooling of a new heavyweight passenger car group wt scale length.  We just have to live with the small companies that build scale size stuff Jonathan. 

I wouldn't expect scale only, but I'd love more like they did with the flexibility of the cylindrical hoppers, ES44's and SD70Ace's. 

jonnyspeed posted:

They still have GP30s in stock Rusty. I'm probably ordering a couple soon. It pains me to pay what they are asking for 20 year old models, but until a 3D printed alternative is available they are the only GP30s out there.

Back on topic... Is anyone planning on converting one of these cars to scale operations? Wondering what trucks to use and how difficult installing Kadees will be?

I modify my Flyonel rolling stock to AM or SHS/MTH trucks and Kadees. It is all custom as they are not constructed for either of these mods and finding the Ace parts is not easy. But I am not a scale guy when it comes to the other details (although I hugely admire their work!).  I just don't like the Flyer trucks and couplers on anything other than my post war stuff.  For me, I am satisfied just in changing the  trucks and couplers, but I don't think scalers generally would want to go through the work to get the rest of the details 'scalified.'

Chuck K posted:

Roundhouse Bill posted:

Lionel will not produce anything in scale only.  It's because the market is so small.  S totally is too small to spend much on tooling of a new heavyweight passenger car group wt scale length.  We just have to live with the small companies that build scale size stuff Jonathan. 

I wouldn't expect scale only, but I'd love more like they did with the flexibility of the cylindrical hoppers, ES44's and SD70Ace's. 

Bingo. 

Rusty

Roundhouse Bill posted:

Lionel will not produce anything in scale only.  It's because the market is so small.  S totally is too small to spend much on tooling of a new heavyweight passenger car group wt scale length.  We just have to live with the small companies that build scale size stuff Jonathan. 

Nobody is asking them to Bill.

The most successful company in S in the last 30 years was S Helper Service. They produced scale models that could be run on Scale, Hi-Rail, or Flyer layouts. In a small market like S WHY would any company want to purposely limit the size of their audience? That is totally contra-intuitive to any kind of good business practice thinking. Build scale models that can use either type of wheels or couplers. Not very complicated. Just follow the proven business model.

jonnyspeed posted:

Roundhouse Bill posted:

Lionel will not produce anything in scale only.  It's because the market is so small.  S totally is too small to spend much on tooling of a new heavyweight passenger car group wt scale length.  We just have to live with the small companies that build scale size stuff Jonathan. 

Nobody is asking them to Bill.

The most successful company in S in the last 30 years was S Helper Service. They produced scale models that could be run on Scale, Hi-Rail, or Flyer layouts. In a small market like S WHY would any company want to purposely limit the size of their audience? That is totally contra-intuitive to any kind of good business practice thinking. Build scale models that can use either type of wheels or couplers. Not very complicated. Just follow the proven business model.

The subject of Lionel and scale models has been beaten to death on several threads.  It's pretty clear it's not gonna happen anytime soon.  The subject may be worthy of another new thread if there's any interest.

Getting back to the new Flyer reefers.  As I've stated, I have no interest in these cars, but they are probably the best new "Flyer traditional" car ever to come out of Lionel. 

It's not a warmed-over O27 car and not a cloned O27 car like the SP style caboose, (now modified into the extended vision caboose.)  The woodside reefer follows in the A.C. Gilbert footsteps. 

In that I'll give Lionel credit.

Rusty