This post is not intended to make anyone upset. I'm just curious. My question is, this weekend i was searching the auction sites and looked at some 3 rail. How come when the new version comes out its a freefall on price for the previous version. I mean the castings look identical, same amount of details, etc... But the price is very low??? I wonder if its just the sound and speakers, wouldnt an upgrade of that be cheaper in the long run rather than dumping the old and buy it again at new price? Again i am just wondering what i'm missing? That thinking is not the normal MO in 2 rail so it just has me curious to know, and again not meant to offend anyone
Original Post

For the same reason some would chose a 2015 auto over a 2014 auto though there are no major changes. "Its the new one" sounds better 

Actually there may be a factory warranty reasoning also. I'm not sure how that works on old locos still sitting on LHS shelves.

"Still trying to not shoot my eye out"

 

"Nursing insomnia one railcar at a time"

My aroma therapy? Smoke Pellets.

 





Cannot the same thing be said of trading cars every year or two?  Or the iPhone six making the iPhone five obsolete.  

 

There are those who want the latest and as a consumer of most of my trains, vehicles and iPhone on the second hand market, I am thankful that the almost latest technology is available to me at more affordable pricing.

 

Also, I attend a lot of train shows and there is a lot of used HO equipment at huge savings over new pricing.

 

Happy railroading,

Don




quote:
 I wonder if its just the sound and speakers, wouldnt an upgrade of that be cheaper in the long run rather than dumping the old and buy it again at new price? Again i am just wondering what i'm missing?




 

Are you referring to 3 rail trains?

If so, I don't think you can buy the upgrades.
The importer/manufacturers want you to purchase a new train, not just some parts.

 

Of course, I could be mistaken...........

C.W. Burfle

I have never bought a single piece of O-Gauge equipment with a concern as to what will happen to the value in a week, a year, or whatever. I buy for the enjoyment. So what the current value is, I really don't care. Most of us in the hobby feel the same way, so we don't have to use many Rolaids. 

Originally Posted by C W Burfle:
 


 

Are you referring to 3 rail trains?

If so, I don't think you can buy the upgrades.
The importer/manufacturers want you to purchase a new train, not just some parts.

 

Of course, I could be mistaken...........

Which brings up a good point in "O" Scale, how little or few upgrades are available in our hobby compared to other and different hobbies. Oh sure, there are a few, but with all the skills I see posted here on the Forum on scratchbuilt items, surprised someone has not jumped into making these available so upgrades can be made to items without paying and waiting for a "Vision Line" to appear.
I'm sure a steam whistle/blowdown chest steam, etc. can be made without having to wait/purchase a Vision.

Amazing how much is available in other scales at reasonable prices. When I was in "N" and "HO" I found and was able to upgrade every engine to sound and those I wanted to, smoke, and remote control systems without having to buy new.

Originally Posted by 2railguy:
This post is not intended to make anyone upset. ...

I think your post is spot on and asks a very worthwhile question.  But don't worry about things you can't control.  We can't control how "other" folks will react.  I've seen that time and time around this place.  You make a simple observation about prices... and BANG!!!  Somebody thinks you're "complaining".    That's their problem -- not yours.

 

By and large,these product re-issue's thrive on INCREMENTAL improvements over prior versions.  Seldom anything overly dramatic for sure.  Sometimes it's smoother slow-speed control, or better sound (Legacy Railsounds is tops!).  Other times it's little stuff like 4-chuffs per rev instead of 2. 

 

But the improvements are enough to warrant interest that keeps prices at a premium for the new stuff.  Consequently, prices of prior releases have nowhere to go but down.  We're not in a collector's market anymore, so there's little to no "glory" in owning older versions of something -- even if they were produced in limited quantities.  That's why the most successful dealers today move inventory... and they move it FAST.

 

I guarantee we'll see a day when even Lionel's die-cast ES44 diesels will be obsoleted by some feature on newer locomotives, and current owners won't be able to give those things away.  May not be this year or next year, but that time will come.  Count on it.

 

Although I hate to generalize by putting labels on things, the 2-rail culture is admittedly very different than the 3-rail culture.  The 2-rail culture has its roots in more of a "modeling community" -- dare I even say "think HO or Model Railroader", whereas the 3-rail culture is more of a "ready-to-run crowd" -- GENERALLY speaking. 

 

Now that's not to say 3-rail folks don't like to tinker... 'cause we have some of the best right here with GRJ and Alex M.  I wouldn't hesitate a second to have either of these gents upgrade one of my prized locomotives.   But as CW pointed out, upgrades are not always available in the 3-rail world... and the importers would much rather pump out product re-issues to generate new revenue.  It's an ongoing cycle that we've seen time and time again, and 3-railers have been conditioned to the cyclical nature of product re-issues to the point that most are quite comfortable with it.

 

Having said all this... I do think that we're reaching new pricing levels nowadays that are gonna make it tougher for the same number of folks to keep buy the new stuff.  Of course, some will... and that will keep the importers very happy for sure.  But increasing numbers of toy train enthusiasts will also find contentment with the "n-1" or even "n-2" generation product.  There are lots of ways to enjoy this hobby without necessarily having the latest and greatest.

 

David




quote:
 We're not in a collector's market anymore, so there's little to no "glory" in owning older versions of something -- even if they were produced in limited quantities. 




 

I guess I can agree that the artificial collectors market is largely gone. But there have been a number of collector themed posts here lately, with very little in the way of negative posts.
And interest/prices on OLDER Modern era product, the stuff made in the early 1970's is on the rise (but not up to their "instant collectable" peak). Try to find a Mint, separate sale boxed early 8020 Santa Fe Alco. They just aren't out there. On the rare occasions one shows up on EBay, it goes for a respectable price.

C.W. Burfle

I agree with the comments posted here. One area that has NOT improved with these new releases is the volume available with RS5.5 (?) used in the newer Legacy locomotives from Big L. The sheer decibel level or "presence" available with the earlier TMCC versions of later release locos does far surpass the amount available on today's Railsounds locomotives. If you have any doubt, run the "hooter' whistle on the original N&W "A" 1218 or the JLC Y6B. You can hear them down the block; newer releases not so much....

Originally Posted by D&H 65:

... One area that has NOT improved with these new releases is the volume available with RS5.5 (?) used in the newer Legacy locomotives from Big L. ...

Interesting commentary.  Although I think Legacy Railsounds is "best-in-class" technology for toy trains nowadays, I agree that Lionel has introduced numerous corner-cutting measures resulting reduced features and price/performance.  Nowadays, it almost seems we need to fork over VL prices in order to get Railsounds features that were part of the everyday product line... for example, roadname/roadnumber-specific crewtalk/towercom announcements, and a nice variety of voice talent used when recording the dialogue.  How many regular-line Legacy locomotives nowadays have the exact same engineer's voice or dispatcher's voice?  Get's stale after awhile, and I can see why some folks may opt to not even use the feature when implemented that way.

 

David

Originally Posted by D&H 65:

I agree with the comments posted here. One area that has NOT improved with these new releases is the volume available with RS5.5 (?) used in the newer Legacy locomotives from Big L. The sheer decibel level or "presence" available with the earlier TMCC versions of later release locos does far surpass the amount available on today's Railsounds locomotives. If you have any doubt, run the "hooter' whistle on the original N&W "A" 1218 or the JLC Y6B. You can hear them down the block; newer releases not so much....

How true, I have one Vision line engine, yet several older engines that have sound levels that are better and you can actually hear. I still have an HO engine that was a retirement gift that has sound level louder then several newer engines.

This is very well said.  I have purchased newer stuff at the expense of older stuff... I could not waite to get rid of my MTH proto-1 general.  The proto 1 was very finicky and so when proto 2 came out... I just wanted to recoup something. 
 
As said... Lionel collecting started us back in the hobby but the new stuff is a different beast... dare I say kind of consumable... Warranties are limited now regardless... there is a shelf life and who wants to pay somebody $300+ to replace an out of warranty proto -2 when for a couple hundred more Brand new proto 3!!
 
Good discussions.. of a dynamic market!
Ben
 
 
Originally Posted by Rocky Mountaineer:
Originally Posted by 2railguy:
This post is not intended to make anyone upset. ...

I think your post is spot on and asks a very worthwhile question.  But don't worry about things you can't control.  We can't control how "other" folks will react.  I've seen that time and time around this place.  You make a simple observation about prices... and BANG!!!  Somebody thinks you're "complaining".    That's their problem -- not yours.

 

By and large,these product re-issue's thrive on INCREMENTAL improvements over prior versions.  Seldom anything overly dramatic for sure.  Sometimes it's smoother slow-speed control, or better sound (Legacy Railsounds is tops!).  Other times it's little stuff like 4-chuffs per rev instead of 2. 

 

But the improvements are enough to warrant interest that keeps prices at a premium for the new stuff.  Consequently, prices of prior releases have nowhere to go but down.  We're not in a collector's market anymore, so there's little to no "glory" in owning older versions of something -- even if they were produced in limited quantities.  That's why the most successful dealers today move inventory... and they move it FAST.

 

I guarantee we'll see a day when even Lionel's die-cast ES44 diesels will be obsoleted by some feature on newer locomotives, and current owners won't be able to give those things away.  May not be this year or next year, but that time will come.  Count on it.

 

Although I hate to generalize by putting labels on things, the 2-rail culture is admittedly very different than the 3-rail culture.  The 2-rail culture has its roots in more of a "modeling community" -- dare I even say "think HO or Model Railroader", whereas the 3-rail culture is more of a "ready-to-run crowd" -- GENERALLY speaking. 

 

Now that's not to say 3-rail folks don't like to tinker... 'cause we have some of the best right here with GRJ and Alex M.  I wouldn't hesitate a second to have either of these gents upgrade one of my prized locomotives.   But as CW pointed out, upgrades are not always available in the 3-rail world... and the importers would much rather pump out product re-issues to generate new revenue.  It's an ongoing cycle that we've seen time and time again, and 3-railers have been conditioned to the cyclical nature of product re-issues to the point that most are quite comfortable with it.

 

Having said all this... I do think that we're reaching new pricing levels nowadays that are gonna make it tougher for the same number of folks to keep buy the new stuff.  Of course, some will... and that will keep the importers very happy for sure.  But increasing numbers of toy train enthusiasts will also find contentment with the "n-1" or even "n-2" generation product.  There are lots of ways to enjoy this hobby without necessarily having the latest and greatest.

 

David

 

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