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Page 8 & 9 of the new, Volume II 2021 Lionel Catalog shows the new 2-10-0 Engine. It looks beautiful! However, the drive rods look as though they are made of plastic, not metal. Is this just a mock-up before the engines went into production to get a photo into the catalog?  Or have my worst dreams come true and they really are plastic?  There's no mention of the drive rods specifically, but I can't imagine the drive rods on the production models look like what's in the catalog. Anyone?

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@Dave Olson posted:

It's a brass hybrid Legacy scale model. We would never put plastic drive rods on it.

Dave two questions...

Will all versions have builders plates? They are only visible on certain images in the catalog.

Is there a reason why only the "In service" 90 (top left) has dark graphite on the smokebox and the rest look lighter? In real life, 90 has a dark graphite smokebox EXCEPT from 2013-2015.

No secret that this engine is a small fortune, I (and I assume most others) want to know exactly what we are ordering before placing the pre-order.

@Prr7688 posted:

Dave two questions...

Will all versions have builders plates? They are only visible on certain images in the catalog.

Is there a reason why only the "In service" 90 (top left) has dark graphite on the smokebox and the rest look lighter? In real life, 90 has a dark graphite smokebox EXCEPT from 2013-2015.

No secret that this engine is a small fortune, I (and I assume most others) want to know exactly what we are ordering before placing the pre-order.

The "Ryan and Dave Show" or as Dave likes to call it the "Dave and Ryan Show" will be on FaceBook and Youtube today at 3pm.  That would be a great question for Dave and Ryan to answer there as well as here.  I'm sure a lot of folks are curious.

@Prr7688 posted:

Dave two questions...

Will all versions have builders plates? They are only visible on certain images in the catalog.

Is there a reason why only the "In service" 90 (top left) has dark graphite on the smokebox and the rest look lighter? In real life, 90 has a dark graphite smokebox EXCEPT from 2013-2015.

No secret that this engine is a small fortune, I (and I assume most others) want to know exactly what we are ordering before placing the pre-order.

We have our catalog show at 3pm today. We'll talk in-depth on the 90. Hopefully most of your questions will be answered there, and if not let me know.

Not sure we covered all the questions on the FB post today so let me jump in on a few while I have a chance:

1. Metal side rods of course.  Most will be "polished" but some will feature blackened rods for other roads to represent a more in-service appearance.  (In service on a railroad that doesn't keep them as prim and proper as the SRC anyway!)

2. All of the catalog art is based off of our initial drawings which Dave helped render into an image format.  There will be some detail differences between some of the Strasburg units and especially the Strasburg and other railroads.  We will post updated images as we can.  The art is correct for the current Strasburg scheme.

3.  1967/2020 - 90 was repainted in this 1967 paint scheme last year for a photo charter.  It didn't last long (less than a week I think.)  But we wanted to offer it anyway because it is such a striking paint scheme.  A future run of these locomotives will include the extended smokebox.  When we have that, we'll re-run this paint scheme with the appropriate details. (And of course the later GW paint as well.)  So if you're looking for an accurate 1967-1980s #90, its in the works.  Didn't want to drop another 27 loco run on all of you at once like we did with the GS locos!  There are lots more Decapods in the future. (Hang in there KO&G fans!!!)

4.  Likewise the details on the Great Western 90s shown here will both be different.  One will be the loco as delivered on the GW.  The other is the original paint with modern SRC details.

5.  All will have builders plates.

6. We're working with the SRC every step of the way on these and we'll match graphite colors as closely as possible to the different eras as shown in the catalog.

7. Not asked here but bears repeating.  This locomotive is all new tooling.  Unlike past hybrids where we started with an existing drive/frame, this one required new tooling for all of those parts.  Most of you already know because I've certainly dropped enough hints that this project has been in development for quite a few years.  It is not an MTH Russian Decapod with Strasburg paint.

8. We are working with the SRC on sounds - including loco and dialog recordings.

9. Don't think it was mentioned in the catalog but like other brass hybrids, these will be individually numbered.

10. Swinging bell - we tried.  Won't fit!  Really, we tried!  I still owe Dave a dinner for that...

I'll be on a live Facebook and YouTube broadcast with the Strasburg on August 2.  So hopefully I'll be able to catch any questions I've missed or any new ones which come up then!  Please join us.  And we hope to have a first sample on hand by October - I want the photo op of our 90 with 90! 

@Jeff2035 posted:

What is meant by "1967/2020"?

Is it the way it was painted in 1967 and in 2020?

Short Answer: Yes

Long Answer: That was how 90 was painted in 1967 although at the time she had an extended smokebox. In the fall of 2020, the Strasburg RR painted 90 in its 1967 paint and ran a series of photo charters where she pulled both passenger services. After a couple of weekends. of photo charters, it was repainted back to its current appearance (the 2000s Lionel scheme. HERE is a video of the photo charter.

@Dave Olson posted:

We have our catalog show at 3pm today. We'll talk in-depth on the 90. Hopefully most of your questions will be answered there, and if not let me know.

@Conrail6358 posted:

Not sure we covered all the questions on the FB post today so let me jump in on a few while I have a chance:

1. Metal side rods of course.  Most will be "polished" but some will feature blackened rods for other roads to represent a more in-service appearance.  (In service on a railroad that doesn't keep them as prim and proper as the SRC anyway!)

2. All of the catalog art is based off of our initial drawings which Dave helped render into an image format.  There will be some detail differences between some of the Strasburg units and especially the Strasburg and other railroads.  We will post updated images as we can.  The art is correct for the current Strasburg scheme.

3.  1967/2020 - 90 was repainted in this 1967 paint scheme last year for a photo charter.  It didn't last long (less than a week I think.)  But we wanted to offer it anyway because it is such a striking paint scheme.  A future run of these locomotives will include the extended smokebox.  When we have that, we'll re-run this paint scheme with the appropriate details. (And of course the later GW paint as well.)  So if you're looking for an accurate 1967-1980s #90, its in the works.  Didn't want to drop another 27 loco run on all of you at once like we did with the GS locos!  There are lots more Decapods in the future. (Hang in there KO&G fans!!!)

4.  Likewise the details on the Great Western 90s shown here will both be different.  One will be the loco as delivered on the GW.  The other is the original paint with modern SRC details.

5.  All will have builders plates.

6. We're working with the SRC every step of the way on these and we'll match graphite colors as closely as possible to the different eras as shown in the catalog.

7. Not asked here but bears repeating.  This locomotive is all new tooling.  Unlike past hybrids where we started with an existing drive/frame, this one required new tooling for all of those parts.  Most of you already know because I've certainly dropped enough hints that this project has been in development for quite a few years.  It is not an MTH Russian Decapod with Strasburg paint.

8. We are working with the SRC on sounds - including loco and dialog recordings.

9. Don't think it was mentioned in the catalog but like other brass hybrids, these will be individually numbered.

10. Swinging bell - we tried.  Won't fit!  Really, we tried!  I still owe Dave a dinner for that...

I'll be on a live Facebook and YouTube broadcast with the Strasburg on August 2.  So hopefully I'll be able to catch any questions I've missed or any new ones which come up then!  Please join us.  And we hope to have a first sample on hand by October - I want the photo op of our 90 with 90! 

Dave and Ryan, thank you guys for finally getting this locomotive from floating idea bubbles, blueprints, to being a production model. I know the you Ryan have talked quite a bit about getting this one done, and a few times that we had talked about it. I remember myself saying I had no idea how many other Decapods existed out in the world other than those that had been used in Russia from some historical footage from the History Channel I saw. I still have to review the cars to see what I am ordering on those, but I am going with the 2000's version since that was what it was wearing when I saw the Great Train Robbery in 2016.



I'll have to catch the FB live show tomorrow as I don't have time to watch it tonight.

IMG_20171021_100353598IMG_20171021_100426960

Hey, there's Dave and Ryan from October 2017 York. Who is having more fun? This was that Saturday well after too much smoke fluid was in the VL Niagara sample, and it threw it's traction tires, but still ran on. I would have popped #90 pictures I took at Strasburg in 2016, but I think that is on the flash drive I loaned to my sister who has had it since early 2017. I will have to get that back from her.

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Last edited by Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4

It is impossible for me to tell from the catalog pictures, will the boiler be prototypically round on the underside? If so, that would clinch the sale for me. If you've ever seen No. 90, or any steam locomotive up close and in person for that matter, you'll know how the underside of a steam model should look. Since this is a hybrid brass-diecast model I am keeping my fingers crossed.

Last edited by Paul Kallus
@Paul Kallus posted:

It is impossible for me to tell from the catalog pictures, will the boiler be prototypically round on the underside? If so, that would clinch the sale for me. If you've ever seen No. 90, or any steam locomotive up close and in person for that matter, you'll know how the underside of a steam model should look. Since this is a hybrid brass-diecast model I am keeping my fingers crossed.

I'm guessing not. I can't imagine how they would have the motor drive the wheels unless the tender was the powered unit like soime of those 4-4-0s.

@Paul Kallus posted:

It is impossible for me to tell from the catalog pictures, will the boiler be prototypically round on the underside? If so, that would clinch the sale for me. If you've ever seen No. 90, or any steam locomotive up close and in person for that matter, you'll know how the underside of a steam model should look. Since this is a hybrid brass-diecast model I am keeping my fingers crossed.

Paul, I tried to get a close up view on the web page looking at 22231030(the 2000's model), I don't know if this answers your question at all since it is only art.

90 close up

I imagine that once it gets past the front of the boiler where the colors change, the underside will as well to make way for all the gears, shafts and other such things that drive the engine. Maybe Dave can answer @Dave Olson this in more detail if possible. Dave, can you answer Paul's question if it is round on the underside, or is it just until the front of the boiler ends going further into the black part of the shell where the gears, shafts and such change? I think that is what Paul means, but what do I know.

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@Paul Kallus posted:

It is impossible for me to tell from the catalog pictures, will the boiler be prototypically round on the underside? If so, that would clinch the sale for me. If you've ever seen No. 90, or any steam locomotive up close and in person for that matter, you'll know how the underside of a steam model should look. Since this is a hybrid brass-diecast model I am keeping my fingers crossed.

Here you go Paul. This is what your talking about.

The catalog photos seem to show that open space back as far as the first two sets of drive wheels. I assume there is a prototypically round boiler underside up until that point. But it's only a catalog photo and we know how that goes.

90

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Last edited by NYC Fan

Thanks for posting the video, Skip, it's always neat to see No. 90 in action. I am lucky to have seen it in person numerous visits to Strasburg. It's quite an experience for me standing next to a fire-breathing machine.

Many of Lionel's scale diecast steamers designed in early 2000's and re-issued again and again have the leaf springs and suspension cast in as part of a U-shaped boiler - it's hideously un-prototypical to say the least. I think it was Korean Brass or another Korean contractor who chose that design, and Lionel just stuck with it over the years. Newer scale engines like the Reading T1 and Milw. Rd. S-3 have rounded boilers with an open slot on the underside to accommodate drive mechanisms and wiring; and am hoping the new 2-10-0 will as well. MTH has utilized the round boiler with open slot for many, but not all, of its scale steam engines for a long time.

I am not a rivet-counter per se, but getting the boiler as accurate as possible is a no-brainer, or at least it should be given the cost of these models.

Last edited by Paul Kallus
@Mikado 4501 posted:

The only thing that’s confusing me a bit is its pricing with dealers.

Most of the dealers I purchase from have the prices of this locomotive fluctuating from MSRP to a preorder price and back again. What’s up with that?

What I heard from my dealer is that Lionel gave the dealers an incorrect pre-order discount. Lionel realized this on the day of the catalog release so a lot of the prices that were originally published by the dealers was with the incorrect discount. Perhaps there is still some confusion on prices going around.

My dealer also mentioned that there will not be a huge pre-order discount on these since it's new tooling AND brass hybrid.

@Paul Kallus posted:

It is impossible for me to tell from the catalog pictures, will the boiler be prototypically round on the underside? If so, that would clinch the sale for me. If you've ever seen No. 90, or any steam locomotive up close and in person for that matter, you'll know how the underside of a steam model should look. Since this is a hybrid brass-diecast model I am keeping my fingers crossed.

Paul,

The following is a screen shot from time stamp 1:54 of the video that is attached in the catalog. It seems to be their engineering model of the engine. If this is accurate, then the boiler will be round only above the #1 and #2 sets of drivers then will have a housing for the motor block over driver sets #3 and #4. The firebox starts between sets #4 and #5.

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Last edited by Prr7688

Thanks for posting that screen shot - I just went into the online catalog and watched the video - it seems Lionel is heavily promoting this model. I guess I am getting old but the first time I viewed this catalog I thought the price read $899.99 - but now I see it as $1,899.99.  Is this price on-par with other brass-diecast hybrids? Even all brass models are not this costly, or are they? Regardless, I am bailing out, even factoring in a 15% preorder discount to the MSRP is too much for my budget.

Last edited by Paul Kallus

Not to belabor my inquiry about the new 2-10-0 Strasburg engine...I am still shaking my head on how I initially misread the price as $899.99, but here are examples of the differences in casting locomotive boilers in die-cast, with the last picture being a brass model.

1st picture: Lionel scale diecast Berk (I used the gold painted PE Berk to illustrate): boiler has under-side U-shape where the suspension is cast in as part of the boiler shell. 2nd picture is of MTH diecast Berkshire - note more prototypically correct rounded underside of boiler with slot to accommodate drive mechanism. 3rd shot is 3rd brass with drive mechanism under 4th set of drivers (the cat's meow of boiler making , though as shown in picture No. 2 below correct and better looking boilers CAN be made in diecast.

GoldPEtight-1

MTHBerkshire3rdbrassboiler

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Last edited by Paul Kallus

And here I thought I was the only modeler who cared what the boiler looked like under the running board.  These things can be fixed, even when die cast.  I have done two K-Lines and an MTH - screws and JB Weld work great for die cast, and of course brass is even easier.  The U shape boiler is relatively recent - check out the 700E and its offspring.

I don't mean to belabor the point, but here is my freelance 2-10-0 with round boiler.  I may someday move the motor to the tender, but right now it is powered by a very small Escap motor.  Plenty of power for what I do.

Decapod

And from what I see on that screenshot above, this model will be a giant step  backward for Lionel.  Their FEF, maybe the UP 9000, and several others appear to have good boiler bellies and no faked-on driver springs (ugh).  And the price?  Go 2-rail; it is cheaper.

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Bob, that is real nice looking model you made.

I have a hunch there's others in the master boiler maker camp...but unfortunately some either don't care or have never seen a real steam locomotive up close. The fault or issue here is that Lionel's early scale steam designer (early 2000's) used the monolithic die-cast boiler with cast in driver springs for almost all their scale steam models and they've have been re-issuing it ad nauseum; and, despite consistent price increases over the years, we keep buying reissues because of the latest bells and whistles (I have as well). Though, I do applaud Lionel as some, but not all, of the "new" designs within the past 10 years, have prototypically correct boilers, including the Vision Line Challenger and Reading T1 - both awesome models - so am not sure there's a reason why they cannot get Engine #90 correct, especially since its being promoted as a brass-hybrid.

At this point, given the lack of input from Lionel and the outrageous price point of the model, I am taking a spectator role.

Last edited by Paul Kallus

I have enjoyed reading the above comments.

On a different item re #90...Would anyone know when the paint scheme was changed from "1990's" to the "2000's" as depicted in the Lionel catalog. Surely it didn't happen Jan 1, 2000?

I'm very thankful a detailed model of this engine is available, mine will be pulling four of the MTH "White Train" NY & NE Overton Passenger cars.

Paul

#90 was repainted from the 1990s paint scheme to the Great Western paint scheme (as offered in the catalog also) for a photo charter. After the photo charter I think she wore the Great Western paint for some time before taking on its current "2000s" livery.  Just need to pin down when the early 2000s Great Western photo charter was.

Most sources I've found say the no. 90 wore the Great Western all-black scheme starting in 2006. About two years later, the lettering on the tender went back to Strasburg, and that's what's shown on the 2231030 model in the catalog.
Though, I'm a little shocked the Great Western 'diamond logo' scheme no. 90 wore in 2013 wasn't an offering in the catalog. Along with the egg logo model, it's definitely the dressiest scheme no. 90 has worn in its career.Lerro Productions: Strasburg's Great Western 90 in 1950's Colorado - YouTube

Well, preorder time is fast approaching for BTO items featured in the new catalog. For me, the lack of information and details on how No. 90 will look is critical. The best street price I've been able to find is $1,750, which is to me very high for a single non-articulated engine, regardless of brass-diecast hybrid construction. For that price, I would expect a Vision Line model, and that the model, specifically the boiler, would look at LEAST as realistic as 3rd Rail's Brass model, albeit the picture I showed was of a 2-8-0, but the point is valid. Animated cab figures would also be a welcome feature

With lack of competition we'll not likely see another No. 90 anytime soon by another manufacturer, and as pointed out, this model is not a Russian Decapod so the MTH Premier 2-10-0 is not a comparable model. Is anyone else dissuaded by the price point and/or uncertainty of what will actually be delivered? My hunch is that since No. 90 is one of a handful of operating steam locomotives today, the model will be made and sell out. The Lionel video did indicate that they'll be future releases of No. 90 in different looks...am wondering if that means they'll be all diecast and therefore less costly?

The Lionel video indicated people have been "begging" for this model for years...I didn't know that people begged for toy trains...well maybe some over-indulged kids, lol.

Last edited by Paul Kallus

Congrats to anyone getting this. I wish I could afford it but I already have on reserve a 3rd Rail locomotive so my train budget is pretty thin right now. I agree I think it will sell out. I am curious to see what this model will look like in person. I hope they have a prototype at York either this year or next April.

Mikado 4501: Great Picture!!

Last edited by Hudson J1e
@Paul Kallus posted:

Well, preorder time is fast approaching for BTO items featured in the new catalog. For me, the lack of information and details on how No. 90 will look is critical. The best street price I've been able to find is $1,750, which is to me very high for a single non-articulated engine, regardless of brass-diecast hybrid construction.

Paul,

Would you be able to share where you found it for this price?

Just few thoughts FWIW. I am not into Strasburg, too far from my main interests, so will not be purchasing this. At $1750 the price may not be out of line. Detail should approach 3rd Rail plus it will have better electronics. Consider that 5 years ago a 3rd Rail 0-6-0 retailed at $1500.
Its unlikely another 2-10-0 will be diecast as it would cost too much to make the dies otherwise this one would be diecast. A diecast casting has less internal volume than brass so it would be even harder to fit the electronics and drive.
I agree it will sell out, just not to me.



Pete

@Craftech posted:

I have never pre-ordered so that is why I am asking.

Have any of you who pre-order very expensive engines after only seeing a rendering of it been disappointed when you see the actual model you bought?

Why don't they have a prototype to look at?  At least one that the manufacturer can show off in a video.



John

The investment in a prototype locomotive based on the actual numbers of units that will be sold is very costly in today's manufacturing environment.  The reason for going to a brass hybrid locomotive is that there is no real tooling for the locomotive shell.  Brass is hand built and done in fairly low production numbers.  This is the recent past, present, and future of steam locomotives in this scale.

I often pre-order.  It is often the only way to get the item I am looking for. 

@GG1 4877 posted:

The investment in a prototype locomotive based on the actual numbers of units that will be sold is very costly in today's manufacturing environment.  The reason for going to a brass hybrid locomotive is that there is no real tooling for the locomotive shell.  Brass is hand built and done in fairly low production numbers.  This is the recent past, present, and future of steam locomotives in this scale.

I often pre-order.  It is often the only way to get the item I am looking for.

Thanks Jonathan

John

"The reason for going to a brass hybrid locomotive is that there is no real tooling for the locomotive shell.  Brass is hand built and done in fairly low production numbers.  This is the recent past, present, and future of steam locomotives in this scale."

I was under the impression that the shell was going to be die-cast, not brass? If the locomotive super-structure is going to be brass then I can see the price point more clearly.

@Paul Kallus posted:

"The reason for going to a brass hybrid locomotive is that there is no real tooling for the locomotive shell.  Brass is hand built and done in fairly low production numbers.  This is the recent past, present, and future of steam locomotives in this scale."

I was under the impression that the shell was going to be die-cast, not brass? If the locomotive super-structure is going to be brass then I can see the price point more clearly.

Rusty

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Here's a screen grab of the CAD. I changed the color of the parts based on material. The main structure of the cab will be die-cast, as will the loco frame/gearbox, wheels, steam chest, and the tender truck components.

The loco boiler and the tender body will be brass.

The boiler couldn't be round all the way under like in the photos posted above. There are simply too many features to fit in this engine for all of that. The main PCB is large, there's a dual smoke unit for the stack and whistle, a motor w/ encoder, a die-cast backdrivable gearbox, and more. Not to mention, 90 is a small engine despite being a 2-10-0.

Hope this answers some questions.

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@Dave Olson posted:

Here's a screen grab of the CAD. I changed the color of the parts based on material. The main structure of the cab will be die-cast, as will the loco frame/gearbox, wheels, steam chest, and the tender truck components.

The loco boiler and the tender body will be brass.

The boiler couldn't be round all the way under like in the photos posted above. There are simply too many features to fit in this engine for all of that. The main PCB is large, there's a dual smoke unit for the stack and whistle, a motor w/ encoder, a die-cast backdrivable gearbox, and more. Not to mention, 90 is a small engine despite being a 2-10-0.

Hope this answers some questions.

Dave, that is a thing of beauty IMO. While some don't hold any interest in it, I do. My railroading interests are much like anyone else, my taste. I can understand why some like and some dislike locomotives, some rolling stock, and certain railroads. We all have bend and breaking points. For me not to get #90 would be a sin in my eyes. There is just a great abundance of fascination about decapod locomotives to me. Whenever you start running other decapods, I'll have to learn if those railroads had them and if it fits my taste.

Dave,

As long as the boiler is as prototypical as possible, especially above the front most drivers, that's all we can ask. I think you know what I was referring to regarding earlier Lionel die-cast steamers with the suspension cast into the superstructure, kind of a horseshoe-monolithic shape.

Am also glad to hear that the boiler will be made out of brass. Although the price point is still an ocher for me, I can see how the model is shaping up to a fine-looking locomotive.

Paul

Last edited by Paul Kallus

After considerable evaluation and number-crunching, I am simply cannot afford nor justify selling other stuff off to pay for No. 90. Lionel has pushed the price-point over the top on this model, albeit for my little world. It's all relative, and the fact that I have the PE Acela set on pre-order was a factor in my decision; too some that set was over-priced however I got a very good pre-order price on the set and add-on cars.

I already have the MTH Strasburg cars and use my Legacy Reading Atlantic to pull them - not a perfect match but it's a nice consist.

For those that have one on order, I'll likely drool over the forthcoming pictures and videos, and part of me will regret not pre-ordering one. Lionel indicated that future No. 90 models are forthcoming, so maybe one day.

@Dave Olson posted:
The boiler couldn't be round all the way under like in the photos posted above. There are simply too many features to fit in this engine for all of that. The main PCB is large, there's a dual smoke unit for the stack and whistle, a motor w/ encoder, a die-cast backdrivable gearbox, and more. Not to mention, 90 is a small engine despite being a 2-10-0.

Can you squeeze a swinging bell in?

@Conrail6358 posted:

Not sure we covered all the questions on the FB post today so let me jump in on a few while I have a chance:

1. Metal side rods of course.  Most will be "polished" but some will feature blackened rods for other roads to represent a more in-service appearance.  (In service on a railroad that doesn't keep them as prim and proper as the SRC anyway!)

2. All of the catalog art is based off of our initial drawings which Dave helped render into an image format.  There will be some detail differences between some of the Strasburg units and especially the Strasburg and other railroads.  We will post updated images as we can.  The art is correct for the current Strasburg scheme.

3.  1967/2020 - 90 was repainted in this 1967 paint scheme last year for a photo charter.  It didn't last long (less than a week I think.)  But we wanted to offer it anyway because it is such a striking paint scheme.  A future run of these locomotives will include the extended smokebox.  When we have that, we'll re-run this paint scheme with the appropriate details. (And of course the later GW paint as well.)  So if you're looking for an accurate 1967-1980s #90, its in the works.  Didn't want to drop another 27 loco run on all of you at once like we did with the GS locos!  There are lots more Decapods in the future. (Hang in there KO&G fans!!!)

4.  Likewise the details on the Great Western 90s shown here will both be different.  One will be the loco as delivered on the GW.  The other is the original paint with modern SRC details.

5.  All will have builders plates.

6. We're working with the SRC every step of the way on these and we'll match graphite colors as closely as possible to the different eras as shown in the catalog.

7. Not asked here but bears repeating.  This locomotive is all new tooling.  Unlike past hybrids where we started with an existing drive/frame, this one required new tooling for all of those parts.  Most of you already know because I've certainly dropped enough hints that this project has been in development for quite a few years.  It is not an MTH Russian Decapod with Strasburg paint.

8. We are working with the SRC on sounds - including loco and dialog recordings.

9. Don't think it was mentioned in the catalog but like other brass hybrids, these will be individually numbered.

10. Swinging bell - we tried.  Won't fit!  Really, we tried!  I still owe Dave a dinner for that...

I'll be on a live Facebook and YouTube broadcast with the Strasburg on August 2.  So hopefully I'll be able to catch any questions I've missed or any new ones which come up then!  Please join us.  And we hope to have a first sample on hand by October - I want the photo op of our 90 with 90! 

I am not an expert by any means and dont know all of the fine details about #90. That said I have been to Strasburg many years ago and #90 was at the front end of the  train my family took during our visit.  I did have one other opportunity to be behind #90 and it was a very special and once in a life time experience at that . On January 10th 1981 my wife and I were invited quests of the cars owner to ride on the last trip of the the Lotos Club Heavyweight Pullman Car which was being donated to the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania. The Lotos Club left New York and was pulled by a GG1 to Leaman Place.  At that point #90 came out and picked up the car and brought it to the Museum.  A small switcher did the final move into the Museum where it resides today.  So I am thinking about buying this engine but looking at the pictures I took I dont see the paint scheme from that January day in 1981. The attached photo shows a white "egg" logo on the tender. (I cant tell if there is a color inside the egg logo)   I am also not sure if at that time 90 had the extended smoke box or not but the smoke box looks black not silver. Can anyone elaborate on what this picture suggests to them and in what time frame was this paint scheme used?   I realize there might never be an exact replica from that specific paint and detail scheme,  however maybe there is something close in the Lionel Catalogue or will be down the road.  One way or another I am really would like on one these engines with the associated cars.  It is really great that this engine is being produced in O Scale.  I would also like to make the suggestion of producing the Lotos Club Heavyweight Pullman.  I realize that is a big ask for maybe a very limited audience however this did happen as the picture I took demonstrates.  Maybe I could have someone custom paint and detal a heavyweight Pullman as the Lotos Club.  Any suggestions?   

Attachments

Images (1)
  • No 90 Strasburg Railroad and the Lotos Club: Picture of No 90 at Leaman Place pulling Lotos Club to Museum Jan 1981

I am not an expert by any means and dont know all of the fine details about #90. That said I have been to Strasburg many years ago and #90 was at the front end of the  train my family took during our visit.  I did have one other opportunity to be behind #90 and it was a very special and once in a life time experience at that . On January 10th 1981 my wife and I were invited quests of the cars owner to ride on the last trip of the the Lotos Club Heavyweight Pullman Car which was being donated to the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania. The Lotos Club left New York and was pulled by a GG1 to Leaman Place.  At that point #90 came out and picked up the car and brought it to the Museum.  A small switcher did the final move into the Museum where it resides today.  So I am thinking about buying this engine but looking at the pictures I took I dont see the paint scheme from that January day in 1981. The attached photo shows a white "egg" logo on the tender. (I cant tell if there is a color inside the egg logo)   I am also not sure if at that time 90 had the extended smoke box or not but the smoke box looks black not silver. Can anyone elaborate on what this picture suggests to them and in what time frame was this paint scheme used?   I realize there might never be an exact replica from that specific paint and detail scheme,  however maybe there is something close in the Lionel Catalogue or will be down the road.  One way or another I am really would like on one these engines with the associated cars.  It is really great that this engine is being produced in O Scale.  I would also like to make the suggestion of producing the Lotos Club Heavyweight Pullman.  I realize that is a big ask for maybe a very limited audience however this did happen as the picture I took demonstrates.  Maybe I could have someone custom paint and detal a heavyweight Pullman as the Lotos Club.  Any suggestions?   

The paint in the picture is most likely the same as the egg logo that Lionel is currently offering.

That being said, up until the 1990's, #90 had an "extended smokebox" that was added by the Great Western during it's service career there.

Ryan at Lionel stated that they intend to offer an extended smokebox version of 90 in the future. If you email him, he might have a better idea of whats-to-come in terms of Lionel's future for models of 90.

Nonetheless, very cool story about the Lotos Club! Thank you for sharing!

Update on the models of 90:

Ryan announced last night on his "Workbench Wednesday" live stream that Lionel is expecting engineering samples of 90 end of Dec./early Jan. - he relayed that he told the factory to take their time and make sure it's right. He also said that he approved SRC passenger car deco (painted?) samples recently - I am hoping they will be exact color match to MTH versions. Sounds like good news all around regarding both items.

Skip to 40:15 in the video for the discussion on 90 and SRC cars.

Last edited by Prr7688

What a world.  We now have folks being told to send back locomotives before they're even made...

Rusty

Ah that is not what Marty is saying. Besides, the amount of time that has been spent on this particular locomotive I would say requires them to get it right. Ryan has put himself in the crunch zone moreso than before because of him saying, "we want to get it right" or something like that. If these engines come out in the 49er paint scheme, it will just be a huge disaster the likes which we've never seen(well, me anyway).

To further on Marty's point, he has been an advocate for the quality control issues to tighten for a good number of years. So much has come up nuts when it should be what it is supposed to be. He has said several times over the years, "we need to send them back if they are wrong."

What a world.  We now have folks being told to send back locomotives before they're even made...

Rusty

No, we have folks being told that if it incorrect and they can't live with it being so to send it back.  This should be normal operating procedure.  Some of the "issues" can be subjective and I am not talking about those.  Some issues are blatant and if folks accept them then it becomes the norm.    Big difference.

I actually think and hope the 90 will be spectacular.  I believe Ryan and the Lionel team are taking this project and keeping a close eye on it.  I think they know it has to be correct.

@MartyE posted:

No, we have folks being told that if it incorrect and they can't live with it being so to send it back.  This should be normal operating procedure.  Some of the "issues" can be subjective and I am not talking about those.  Some issues are blatant and if folks accept them then it becomes the norm.    Big difference.

I actually think and hope the 90 will be spectacular.  I believe Ryan and the Lionel team are taking this project and keeping a close eye on it.  I think they know it has to be correct.

The question is as long as a physical model (#90 in this case) doesn't exist, how do you know what's wrong it?  The CAD image seems pretty good to me, but until it exists physically there's nothing really to criticize.  I also agree that Lionel's engineers and production managers should be working to get this model as correct as possible, especially if Lionel is working with Strasburg.

This model has a higher expectations than any of the Big Boys Lionel produced, but talking about sending it back at this time without a physical model is just blowing smoke.

Rusty

The question is as long as a physical model (#90 in this case) doesn't exist, how do you know what's wrong it?  The CAD image seems pretty good to me, but until it exists physically there's nothing really to criticize.  I also agree that Lionel's engineers and production managers should be working to get this model as correct as possible, especially if Lionel is working with Strasburg.

This model has a higher expectations than any of the Big Boys Lionel produced, but talking about sending it back at this time without a physical model is just blowing smoke.

Rusty

But Marty isn't saying send it back without it being here to have eyes see it. He is saying that people should send it back if it is wrong, meaning after it is in there hands to see.

@Dave Olson posted:

It's gonna be good guys. We plan on going to Strasburg and recording 90 ourselves for the sounds. We just revised the CAD to add even more separate detailing. It'll be a nice loco.

Dave, I'm sure I speak for others when I say that I appreciate the time and effort you and the team are putting in on these models.

Better get to Strasburg soon, 90 doesn't have that much more flue time before her upcoming 1472. Be sure to note the smokebox shade of graphite while you are there.

As a ride note, there was a recent discussion on RYPN in which Kelly Anderson (recently retired member of Strasburg mechanic team) mentioned that 90's original as built whistle was very similar to a PRR passenger whistle - it would be cool to see you guys include this as one of the 5 whistle options.

Last edited by Prr7688

Good to hear from Dave again, and hope that this lives up to everyone's expectations(which some people may have higher than most, just saying).

The main thing I am looking forward to in this catalog is this model. I opted for the 2000's version of it because that is the one that I rode behind. I believe that this model should be one of the best produced, and hopefully with the reassurances at York about sample, the colors and any other thing that may slip through the cracks, should be spotted beforehand.

Like Marty said, not complaining, discussing. And the bit about returning/sending back should be interpreted like if you went to a restaurant. What I mean and what should be the obvious is that if you order a hamburger, you may let the pickles not being on there slide. However, if you ordered a hamburger, and a hot dog comes instead, there is going to be big issues. Yeah, I know, hot dogs and hamburgers, how ridiculous. Enough about that.

@Dave Olson, are you going to highlight anything in the future in Demos with Dave(before the engine gets in), or even if you and Ryan just talk about how things are going with this during any conversations you have live?

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