Just received a e-mail from Menards announcing their new enclosed auto carrier.
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They look very nice. I will wait and see who picks them apart.😉
They look like a stretched and widened version of the Lionel 027 autoracks. At 17.5" measured over the couplers, according to their site, they're slightly shorter than MTH's Premier-class autoracks.
Just have to make up some railroad logo stickers to place on the blank panels up on the car sides. If Menards treats these the same way as the double-stack cars (only offering the two colors), a sticker pack much like their billboards would be an ideal addition, as there are a number of roadnames that would work with the yellow and brown base color (CSX/UP for the yellow, and NS/Conrail for the brown, for example)
Mark, ya may want to have that line in the website's copy about "metal couplers" edited to "operating couplers", if the provided photos are correct then these have the standard plastic roller-bearing-style trucks. Wouldn't want anyone anyone here fussing over that detail 
(adds to his shopping list despite having 50+ of the MTH 'racks)
---PCJ
When did the autoracks start getting the paneled sides? 80’s?
They're great for $40, I'd like to see them be a few inches longer to be scale...
Did you notice Menards didn't announce them in this forum ?
@cabinet Bob posted:Did you notice Menards didn't announce them in this forum ?
Why do you think that is?
Menards announced their new enclosed auto carrier.
Are the automobiles visible?
Edited as below:
From later posts I see the automobiles are not visible. Wow, one can save a lot of money and not purchase all those O gauge automobiles.
Charlie
From Benton, AR
@cabinet Bob posted:Did you notice Menards didn't announce them in this forum ?
Do you blame them!
@ChiTown Steve posted:When did the autoracks start getting the paneled sides? 80’s?
Between 1970 and 1980 was when various protective panels were introduced.
Andrew
Thanks. I’ve expanded my layout into the 70’s time frame. Mostly so I can add more cool muscle cars. So that puts these in play.
All this babble and no link?
Here you go! Looks great to me!
It looks like a copy of Lionels traditional line of enclosed auto carriers abeit that the menards cars are sealed...no way to add a load. Another thing is all flat cars are labeled dttx which is a doublestack container car marking instead of ettx [tri level rack] or bttx [bi-level rack]. The good thing is the cars are sold individually or in a 4 pack with 4 different numbers.
The only question remains is performance! Will the cars be top heavy or weighted on the underframe of the flat car.
I don't know what the weight has to do with it, I have many Lionel and MTH cars that I had to add weight to. The Price is nice and makes it easier for guys like me to be involved in the Model RR Hobby! Not the Real RR!
@mike g. posted:Here you go! Looks great to me!
Thank you. Not a bad-looking car.
My order for a 4 pack is in!
5" HIGH?
Cars would never fit under my bridges.
I don’t care if they are a tad compressed, but I’m curious how they would look behind a scale sd70. Since the real ones look so huge, especially on a small layout, I’m curious to see them in action.
After browsing this thread, I went down the rabbit hole of reading about the history of auto-carriers and discovered the Vert-a-PAC, specially designed to transport Chevy Vegas -vertically! GM must have had high hopes, to have a specific auto transport designed for one specific car model. I don’t imagine we’ll see a scale model of the Vert-a-Pac anytime soon
@SIRT posted:5" HIGH?
Cars would never fit under my bridges.
They do sit quite a bit high on the trucks. The wheelsets appear to be about 33"/36"; I suspect that the prototypes were a smaller diameter.
@Crazy Train posted:After browsing this thread, I went down the rabbit hole of reading about the history of auto-carriers and discovered the Vert-a-PAC, specially designed to transport Chevy Vegas -vertically! GM must have had high hopes, to have a specific auto transport designed for one specific car model. I don’t imagine we’ll see a scale model of the Vert-a-Pac anytime soon
Probably not but maybe a stac-pack.
@Crazy Train posted:After browsing this thread, I went down the rabbit hole of reading about the history of auto-carriers and discovered the Vert-a-PAC, specially designed to transport Chevy Vegas -vertically! GM must have had high hopes, to have a specific auto transport designed for one specific car model. I don’t imagine we’ll see a scale model of the Vert-a-Pac anytime soon
If someone 3D scans the HO Scale models already produced by EXACT RAIL and uses that data to create a 3D computer file of the Vert-a-Pac in O scale, so they can be 3D printed in O scale, then you can get an O scale model.
Andrew
@PRRMP54 posted:They do sit quite a bit high on the trucks. The wheelsets appear to be about 33"/36"; I suspect that the prototypes were a smaller diameter.
The high water look is very noticeable. It looks like they might tip if speeds aren't limited on curves.
I like these offerings! But at 17.5 inches in length, I think they won't go well on O-31 or even possibly O-36 curves. Anyone know how ling the Lionel carriers from the 90's were/are?
@prrhorseshoecurve posted:It looks like a copy of Lionels traditional line of enclosed auto carriers that are sealed...no way to add a load.
Which models were those? All of my Lionel 16xxx and 36xxx screened auto carriers issued in the 1990's have sliding doors at each end.
the Vert-a-PAC could be made using the Menards cars.
Cutting off the sides and 3D printing the verta part with a frame that fits into the cut-out.
@RadioRon posted:I like these offerings! But at 17.5 inches in length, I think they won't go well on O-31 or even possibly O-36 curves. Anyone know how ling the Lionel carriers from the 90's were/are?
Those cars were about 13" (not including couplers), same length as the MPC open-deck carriers.
---PCJ
I view the 17.5 over the couplers compression ratio the same as the 18” of Premier streamlined passenger cars.
The cars look nice and are certainly better priced than either the "scale" MTH or Lionel products. Unlike them, however, the trucks are placed too close to the ends of the car. Most likely because correct placement further back would require longer coupler shanks. If one uses Kadees and new holes for the trucks could be drilled further back, this could be fixed. Those who aren't rivet counters probably wouldn't care.
Terry
A picture might help. The trucks are pretty close to the ends, I suspect that's why they'll do O27 curves
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@PRRMP54 posted:They do sit quite a bit high on the trucks. The wheelsets appear to be about 33"/36"; I suspect that the prototypes were a smaller diameter.
Bi-level autoracks (which these appear to be) have 33" wheels. Tri-level have 28". The trucks are too close to the car ends on these.
From photos, looking at the website and not having one to measure in front of me, the Lionel 0-27 autorack is 13 1/2 inches in length. I have no diameter or Height of the car. If anyone can provide it, that would be nice. Depending how these look when people start getting them, I may end up buying 20 for a consist. These are perfect for Railking Es44s and and SD70s
Good for Menards. They are toy train cars, want scale? buy scale.
I think it would be helpful at least to me is to see the car in the real world on a layout next to some other rolling stock to get an idea instead of a stand alone picture from the website.
That would be great Chris, but I don't have the car, so I posted the only picture I could get. 
I agree - good for Menards. This product is not for me (not my modelling era), but I think it's great that Menards continues to innovate with new products like this. A win for the hobby. I also think it's unfortunate Menards did not introduce this product with a Forum announcement.
Where is the graffiti?
@hobby-go-lucky posted:Which models were those? All of my Lionel 16xxx and 36xxx screened auto carriers issued in the 1990's have sliding doors at each end.
More like appearance (being shorter than scale) than in function. You might call them a stretched version (length and height) of the Lionel cars, or a compressed version of the MTH Premier cars. Visually, they'd fit better with the latter, being the same height.
@breezinup posted:The high water look is very noticeable. It looks like they might tip if speeds aren't limited on curves.
Funny you mention that, a few minutes ago I pulled out one of my MTH premier autoracks to measure its height (in response to SIRT's comment --they also measure 5" tall ), and noticed the styrofoam carries a sticker warning users of this exact same hazard. During my floor-layout days I never had issues with the MPC trilevels tipping over, but I always ran them empty. Fully loaded, these cars were (1) very heavy, and (2) very prone to tipping over if you didn't hold your speed down on those 027 curves. Probably explains why virtually all of the post-MPC reissues of this car were bilevel.
@PRRMP54 posted:They do sit quite a bit high on the trucks. The wheelsets appear to be about 33"/36"; I suspect that the prototypes were a smaller diameter.
According to a datasheet I found on BNSF's site, the (tri-level) prototype uses 28" wheels.
https://www.bnsf.com/ship-with.../Tri-Level-Specs.pdf
---PCJ
(oh hey, re-discovered how to multi-quote. Doesn't work when you're editing a post tho')
@gunrunnerjohn posted:That would be great Chris, but I don't have the car, so I posted the only picture I could get.
Oh no John that wasn’t a stab at you picture I was just making a general statement in that I can vision size better when I see it next to something else. 😉
The end doors don't open so I can't add these car-to-car ramps I 3D printed.
These were made in 2016 ugh!; I can do a much better design and print today.
@SIRT posted:Again, 5" high? Someone goofed
Atlas O Hy-Cubes are fine adding 1/8" wood under portal feet without roadbed using G.G. to 036 fast track.
Hope you don't have any standard tunnel portals...
My scale corrugated auto racks from MTH Premier are about 5-1/16" high. Lionel's version is about the same.
I have a bunch of Lionel Tunnel portals. I build up the bases so the opening is at least 6" above rail height. That way scale stuff and post-war style operating cars with things sticking out the top all go thru.
AlanRail
Do you sell those 3D printed ramps?
I would like two of them.
With the introduction of these, I am thinking we can kiss goodbye to Menards making any more bi-level auto carriers with die cast vehicles included. 
Even without the non prototypical era Buicks or Sandford & Son Ford trucks included, the bi-level cars look nicer empty and are closer to scale than these new enclosed ones.
NYC 428
send me a private message, can't sell from a thread request. OGRR Rules.
I just came from Menards in Wausau, WI and found the new 1957 Dodge trucks. They also have 1958 Plymouth Furys in different colors. I found the trucks on the website, but I did not see the cars there.
Truck is 4&1/4" and car is 4&3/8" long.
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Can someone who has one please photograph it next to an MTH Premier auto carrier or an HO scale auto carrier?
Andrew
@cabinet Bob posted:Did you notice Menards didn't announce them in this forum ?
As a toy-train operator (NOT a "scale modeler") I would appreciate still getting the announcements here, though I know Menards gets a lot of grief from certain members over some stuff not being scale etc.
Out of curiosity, what curve radius looks good (not exorbitant overhang etc) with a 17-18 inch car? Are these cars ideal for O-31? O-36? I know our Lionel 15.5" passenger car overhangs our O-31 track to some extent.
Thank you!
I imagine nothing less than O-54 would look good. I would think they would have trouble negotiating switch stands on any lower diameter curve, too. I had to modify some Fastrack O36 switch stands for some 15 1/2" well cars I built, but then they sit lower than these auto rack cars.
Terry
If anyone gets theres, can you post photos here for us to see?
Thank You
@Micro posted:As a toy-train operator (NOT a "scale modeler") I would appreciate still getting the announcements here, though I know Menards gets a lot of grief from certain members over some stuff not being scale etc.
Out of curiosity, what curve radius looks good (not exorbitant overhang etc) with a 17-18 inch car? Are these cars ideal for O-31? O-36? I know our Lionel 15.5" passenger car overhangs our O-31 track to some extent.
Thank you!
I have found that by subscribing to their trains email list, I am better able to get train items that sell out quickly, rather than wait to see an announcement here
Here are a few pictures of the last few that came in
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I bought 20. Thanks for the photos. Cabinet Bob.
@cabinet Bob posted:Here are a few pictures of the last few that came in
I would have preferred if Menard's would have originally made the bi-level cars a bit longer like the new ones. I think they still look better with the sides half way down below the trucks and not as roller skate like.
It is a vacation week for some people, so there are less posts.
@SDIV Tim posted:I bought 20. Thanks for the photos. Cabinet Bob.
Whoo...! 'Dat be a lotta 'racks.
Guess I better move up my next Menards purchase, seeing as I already missed out on the UTLX frameless tankers and doublestack cars. 
<consults wishlist>
---PCJ
I found the Youngstown Steel patent on the side loading auto loaders. It has some detailed drawings on the car and loading apparatus.
The Menards Auto Carriers are cheap enough to experiment with.
One thing I noticed is they do not have the operating railroad logo on them, i.e., BNSF, CSX, NS, etc. All the real world cars I've seen have not only the leasing company logo (DTTX, etc.) plus they also have the operating railroad logos on them.
@paulp575 posted:One thing I noticed is they do not have the operating railroad logo on them, i.e., BNSF, CSX, NS, etc. All the real world cars I've seen have not only the leasing company logo (DTTX, etc.) plus they also have the operating railroad logos on them.
Yeah, I noticed that too. Surprised Menards didn't include sticker sheets like on their open bilevel. I could see someone coming up with decals to "correct" the DTTX reporting mark to something actual autoracks wore (DTTX is for spine cars), as well as roadnames to fit the blank panels. Should be do-able with standard inkjet decal paper or even inkjet adhesive paper.
---PCJ
The correct reporting marks for a flat car with a Bi-Level auto rack are
TTGX
The reddish car could have logos and names for Missouri Pacific, Southern Pacific, CONRAIL, NORFOLK SOUTHERN, The early 1980's SOUTHERN , the early 1980's NORFOLK AND WESTERN lettering, C&EI
The UNION PACIFIC yellow car would of course need decals for the UNION PACIFIC, CN, CSX, TFM, KANSAS CITY SOUTHERN, BNSF, Burlington Northern Santa Fe Railway circle-cross, CANADIAN PACIFIC CP, Ferromex, Chicago & North Western
Andrew
Falcon Service
Mine arrived today, have to work so will try to post more pictures later.
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I wonder how they visually compare with O gauge and O scale flat cars and automobile carriers from other companies.
Andrew
The reddish cars can also have logos for 1990's Santa Fe and Burlington Northern Santa Fe Railway Circle-Cross and the SSW COTTON BELT, perhaps even WP WESTERN PACIFIC.
Andrew
Here are photos of a plain automobile carrier for NKCR
The TTX flat car has TTGX reporting marks
Andrew
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Some comparisons since somebody was asking:
With Williams SD90 and MTH Railking auto rack
031 curves:
042 curves
Compared to most traditional sized cars, theses are huge!
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"During my floor-layout days I never had issues with the MPC trilevels tipping over, but I always ran them empty. Fully loaded, these cars were (1) very heavy, and (2) very prone to tipping over if you didn't hold your speed down on those 027 curves. Probably explains why virtually all of the post-MPC reissues of this car were bilevel." I've got the Great Northern MPC open side tri-level. I tried several different type of autos hoping to be able to run it loaded. I thought those plastic Dime Store Dreams would do the trick but they were too wide. I finally found some Hot Wheels Extremes Volkswagens that fit.
The two vans and the Beatle had to ride the top level, two Variants and a white Karman Ghia in the middle and two hatchbacks and the black Ghia on the bottom. Weight was definitely a problem. I couldn't figure out how to disassemble the auto rack so securing the cars was an issue. Center of gravity was a big, big issue, especially with those loose trucks. Train speeds needed to be kept very slow. I've got 3 of the Lionel screened autoracks from the 90s. Never did try to load those.
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@Darrell posted:Mine arrived today, have to work so will try to post more pictures later.
Imteresting! It appears Menards mfgs are using an old [original] MTH Premier Autocarrier frame sans the metal weight plate!
@prrhorseshoecurve posted:Imteresting! It appears Menards mfgs are using an old [original] MTH Premier Autocarrier frame sans the metal weight plate!
We have all seen the original photos. Why do some folks need to copy them over when commenting on them?
i want some in autotrain,,,,lots of them !!!
Are these body's the same size as the mth ones?
@milnyc posted:I just came from Menards in Wausau, WI and found the new 1957 Dodge trucks. They also have 1958 Plymouth Furys in different colors. I found the trucks on the website, but I did not see the cars there.
Truck is 4&1/4" and car is 4&3/8" long.
What is the scale of these?
@Lionelzwl2012 posted:Are these body's the same size as the mth ones?
The MTH Auto Carriers are 20.5" long.
Menards are 17.5" long.
@PRRMP54 posted:What is the scale of these?
Menards says the Dodges and Plymouths are1/48. They both are about 17 & 1/2 scale feet long.
A 58 Plymouth Fury was 204.6 long overall, divide that by 12 and you get 17.05 feet
They're darn close.
Doug
Here is a UNION PACIFIC rebuilt auto rack on a TTX flat car.
Decals need to be made to apply to the auto rack and flat car of this Automobile Carrier.
Andrew
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@RailRide posted:They look like a stretched and widened version of the Lionel 027 autoracks. At 17.5" measured over the couplers,
Here are some photos comparing the new Menard's Auto Carrier and the Lionel traditional sized Auto Carrier. The Lionel car is orange Rio Grande and the Menard's car is brown.
Being longer, wider, and greater height, the Menard's car is much larger than the Lionel car.
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The MENARDS version of the Auto Carrier can be used as a transition between MTH Railking and Premier freight cars.
Andrew
If you have the decals for CONRAIL you can apply them to the reddish auto carrier.
Andrew
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@falconservice posted:The MENARDS version of the Auto Carrier can be used as a transition between MTH Railking and Premier freight cars.
Andrew
Mmm...I'd intermix Menards with the MTH Premier cars. The size difference is less noticable in that use case. The RailKing cars are significantly different being short open bilevels, and would be a better match for the Menards open bilevel cars.
The MTH Premier cars would be a transition between Menards and the upcoming Atlas O Gunderson cars
---PCJ
The Railking Modern box cars and Airslide Hoppers would look right with the Menards Auto Carrier.
Andrew
I have a set of these auto wrecks on the way from Menards. They are beauties. Does anyone know if there are peel and stick graffiti decals or imagery that I can add to them? They won't look right if there is not graffiti everywhere.
@WBC posted:Here are some photos comparing the new Menard's Auto Carrier and the Lionel traditional sized Auto Carrier. The Lionel car is orange Rio Grande and the Menard's car is brown.
Being longer, wider, and greater height, the Menard's car is much larger than the Lionel car.
Lionel also made comparable scale auto racks. But they retailed near 3x the price!
Terry
@tcripe posted:Lionel also made comparable scale auto racks. But they retailed near 3x the price!
Terry
Lionel's scale auto carriers would also be over 22 inches long and the corrugated metal sides are see through. Menards product sits nicely between the traditional size and full scale size for those who neither have room nor wide curves for for 22 inch cars.
Another item to mention:
The Menards auto carriers roll nicely. I bought the tide tank cars from Menards with what appears to be the same plastic trucks. However, the tide tank cars are terrible rollers so Menards have made some non-visible improvements.
All auto carriers should be operated on O-72 curves or larger since they are so top heavy.
Andrew
@tcripe posted:Lionel also made comparable scale auto racks. But they retailed near 3x the price!
Terry
Their "traditional" autoracks make a comeback in 2022 with die-cast (bettendorf) trucks...and an MSRP of $100 
(2022 V2 page 70)
---PCJ
@RailRide posted:Their "traditional" autoracks make a comeback in 2022 with die-cast (bettendorf) trucks...and an MSRP of $100
---PCJ
I’m convinced Lionel has lost their collective minds…
@POTRZBE posted:. Does anyone know if there are peel and stick graffiti decals or imagery that I can add to them? They won't look right if there is not graffiti everywhere.
Lots of O scale graffiti decals available on ebay. Just search "o scale graffiti"
Here they are running on my layout. 031 inner loop/042 outer loop - 072 switches make up the crossover. One car did uncouple during testing and they do wobble a bit.
I think Menards did a really nice job with these cars. The size for an O gauge layout feels right and is runnable on wider radius turns.
Just like the real thing, the height and length creates the same running dynamics in the model. I see auto racks every day on the CN tracks by my house. They aren’t running very fast.
By contrast, I watch Wide World of Trains on YouTube, and can see them roaring past in manifest freights at 60MPH
---PCJ
In the wide open spaces I can see that but not in populated areas. None of our layouts have 100 miles of straight track.
@WBC posted:Here are photos comparing the new Menards Auto Carrier & Lionel's traditional-sized Auto Carrier. Lionel's car is orange Rio Grande & Menard's is brown. Being longer, wider & higher, Menard's car is much larger than Lionel's.
@WBC, thank you for the comparison photos. I've always liked the traditional-sized Lionel auto carriers, & due to my operational requirements, still prefer them over these scale-sized (while very nice) Menards units.
@Darrell posted:Some comparisons since somebody was asking: With MTH Railking auto rack
031 curves:
042 curves
Compared to most traditional sized cars, theses are huge!
Darrell, thanks for those curve comparison photos. With O-36 & O-31 curves at my house, it goes to show I could never accommodate them.
@Micro posted:As a toy-train operator (NOT a "scale modeler") I would appreciate still getting the announcements here, though I know Menards gets a lot of grief from certain members over some stuff not being scale etc. Thank you!
Sign up on the Menards website & you will get direct e-mail notifications of all new product announcements.
@RailRide posted:Surprised Menards didn't include sticker sheets like on their open bilevel. I could see someone coming up with decals to "correct" the DTTX reporting mark to something actual autoracks wore (DTTX is for spine cars), as well as road names to fit the blank panels. adhesive paper. ---PCJ
Perhaps it a copyright/licensing issue for Menards to continue offering stickers with various railroad names/logos. I guess we can find such decals to apply ourselves.
Which railroads would have a copyright issue?
Andrew
@falconservice posted:Which railroads would have a copyright issue?
Andrew
Probably not so much as a copyright issue as it is licensing a copyrighted logo.
Lionel and the other model train manufacturers have to go through a long process if they want to produce models of real railroads. Once a manufacturer gets permission, then I'm sure there's some back-and-forth to ensure the items are true - as best as possible - to the real thing. I think I read somewhere that this process can take up to 2 years.
I'll probably place an order for one of each of these cars within the next couple of weeks and examine the size of the blank panel. If I can print suitable logos on adhesive paper, I may buy as many additional cars as roadnames that look right with the yellow and brown carbodies. I say "may" because these would be run with the MTH premier cars, and I already have 50+ of them, so storage space becomes a thing.
---PCJ
@RailRide posted:I'll probably place an order for one of each of these cars within the next couple of weeks and examine the size of the blank panel. If I can print suitable logos on adhesive paper, I may buy as many additional cars as roadnames that look right with the yellow and brown carbodies. I say "may" because these would be run with the MTH premier cars, and I already have 50+ of them, so storage space becomes a thing.
---PCJ
I wouldn't wait. Sometimes items sell out rather quickly.
@paulp575 posted:I wouldn't wait. Sometimes items sell out rather quickly.
Definitely in the case of the doublestack cars and frameless UTLX tankers (I missed both).
Most likely pulling the trigger tomorrow morning for those and a few other cars in my wishlist
---PCJ
As of tonite there are 615 yellow and 745 burgundy cars left
The yellow auto carriers could have the graphics and logos for BNSF Burlington Northern Santa Fe Railway painted or applied as decals.
BNSF four-bay hoppers have just been released in the past weeks.
There should not be a rights problem with BNSF. Look at how subtle the current BNSF management was with the 25th Anniversary of BNSF.
Andrew
@RadioRon posted:Darrell, thanks for those curve comparison photos. With O-36 & O-31 curves at my house, it goes to show I could never accommodate them.
No problem! They are currently running on my 031 loop as I'm using the 042 loop to test some Williams Aluminum streamliners that are getting a led upgrade. The streamliners will not run on the 031, 042 minimum for those. The Menard's Autoracks are quite happy on the 031 loop, but then I don't yet have a bunch of scenery to worry about!
Darrell, can you attribute the wobble to wheel/truck issues or is it because they are so top heavy? Maybe weighting the underside to NMRA standard will help the wobble.
@paulp575 posted:Probably not so much as a copyright issue as it is licensing a copyrighted logo.
Lionel and the other model train manufacturers have to go through a long process if they want to produce models of real railroads. Once a manufacturer gets permission, then I'm sure there's some back-and-forth to ensure the items are true - as best as possible - to the real thing. I think I read somewhere that this process can take up to 2 years.
Sorry for this rant but this is a pure example of what is wrong in this country. Once permission is given, how is it possible to take so long to finalize a design? Shouldn't there be one person on the company side who has the final authority to say yes/no? And shouldn't they be provided with a portfolio of say 10 possible designs to choose from? Or do the manufacturers submit one design at a time to some low level person who cannot authorize the final design by themselves and who in turn has to kick it upstairs. Nothing like over complicating things in the US business world.
@BwanaBob posted:Sorry for this rant but this is a pure example of what is wrong in this country. Once permission is given, how is it possible to take so long to finalize a design? Shouldn't there be one person on the company side who has the final authority to say yes/no? And shouldn't they be provided with a portfolio of say 10 possible designs to choose from? Or do the manufacturers submit one design at a time to some low level person who cannot authorize the final design by themselves and who in turn has to kick it upstairs. Nothing like over complicating things in the US business world.
Your rant is interesting, but the major problem I see is that the holder of the copyright wants to ensure what the train manufacturer designs is accurate. How many times have you seen errors on things? I see enough to know it's a problem. Today mediocracy is the acceptable norm - which needs to change!
Welp, placed my order for these two as well as seven other cars I had on my wishlist.
Now what to do, what to dooooo....with that rebate thingy since I'm way outside of Menards' corporate footprint 
---PCJ
@RailRide posted:Welp, placed my order for these two as well as seven other cars I had on my wishlist.
Now what to do, what to dooooo....with that rebate thingy since I'm way outside of Menards' corporate footprint
---PCJ
Probably the same thing I do with my rebates: Ignore them.
My nearest Menards is at least 600 miles!
@coach joe posted:Darrell, can you attribute the wobble to wheel/truck issues or is it because they are so top heavy? Maybe weighting the underside to NMRA standard will help the wobble.
There is a lot of wiggle room between the trucks and the frame of the car, even a flat car would wobble! They wobble on my layout 1) imperfections in the track, 2) the A/C is blowing on them, LOL! I put 3 diecast cars inside one to see if weight would help, still wobbled.
Here is my string of 20, with 2 Railking ES44s
Darrell, how about a "shim" of some sort to take up some of that space?
@SDIV Tim posted:Here is my string of 20, with 2 Railking ES44s
<video>
I like!
They even have prototypical 'flat wheel' effects
---PCJ
@RadioRon posted:@WBC, thank you for the comparison photos. I've always liked the traditional-sized Lionel auto carriers, & due to my operational requirements, still prefer them over these scale-sized (while very nice) Menards units.
Here is a scale length one for comparison to the Menards. 
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Looks great Tim!
Bob
@terry hudon posted:i want some in autotrain,,,,lots of them !!!
I too would like Auto Train. I wonder if you could re-skin the Menards to simulate the Amtrak 9200s (2004 and later)? A lot of work, probably.
The earlier 9100s are closer in terms of the roof, but the partially perforated side panels would be tough, and the 9100s had trucks that were more like express trucks.
For AUTO TRAIN auto carriers it would be best to make them out of laser cut and engraved aluminum sheets and stamped aluminum sheets.
Andrew
@tcripe posted:I imagine nothing less than O-54 would look good. I would think they would have trouble negotiating switch stands on any lower diameter curve, too. I had to modify some Fastrack O36 switch stands for some 15 1/2" well cars I built, but then they sit lower than these auto rack cars.
Terry
Thank you very much for this.
@Darrell posted:Some comparisons since somebody was asking:
031 curves:
042 curves
Compared to most traditional sized cars, theses are huge!
Thank you very much, this helps a lot!
@cabinet Bob posted:As of tonite there are 615 yellow and 745 burgundy cars left
Out of about how many?
O72 curves:
On my k-line O42 switch, looks like they will clear any low profile switch machine:
Well maybe not an O22 so much.....
Just for fun, O27 Curve:
Marx O27 switch:
K-line 5121 O27 switch:
Think I'm all out of stuff to try them on, LOL!
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So I put my money where my mouth, er keyboard is and got one of each autorack:
Upon opening (which I took my time peeling the duplicate of the outer label seen above, off the inner clamshell), I noticed this typo. Can you see it?
Here's a view not seen yet--how the Menards autorack compares to the MTH Premier. Here I placed one of the two between a pair of the MTH cars. For a fair comparison, I picked two that have their trucks in the original position at the ends of the car. I may try to pose it with two newer cars whose trucks were moved inwards from the ends. Somehow the reduced wheelbase made those cars appear shorter in comparison with their older stablemates, despite being the same length.
As far as I'm concerned, they're a decent match. In a solid train of MTH autoracks one might not notice the length difference if you didn't know they were in the consist.
At eye level, the ride height is almost exact. Okay, the Menards cars' roofline is about 1/8" lower than the MTH. If rolling by in a consist, not really noticable if you didn't know it was there.
All in all, I'd get more if there were actual roadnames on them. I might still do so if I or someone else makes up suitable decals for the blank panel. I don't even feel a need to change the car number (the reporting marks are another thing I'd modify, but it wouldn't stop me from buying additional roadnames)
The blank panel measures 1 7/16" wide by 11/16" tall ( or 37x17mm) if anyone would like to take a stab at making up suitable railroad logos for these.
---PCJ
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@RailRide posted:Upon opening (which I took my time peeling the duplicate of the outer label seen above, off the inner clamshell), I noticed this typo. Can you see it?
What I see is in large type "Corrugated Auto Carrier (Yellow)" and then below it on the left "O Gauge Hopper".
Pretty sure those are 2 distinctly different pieces of rolling stock.
Patrick, I see the difference in size in the first photo but the Menard's car fares better in the closeups. I believe the length is what gives it away when placed between the wo MTH cars. If you combined them a string of each together it would be less noticeable than interspersing them as you did for the photo comparison.
The MENARDS auto carrier is proportionally close to the way the MTH RailKing Husky-Stack well car with containers is proportioned. The modern era RailKing freight cars would look right with this auto carrier.
Andrew
amazon has a 50 pack of shield shaped Union Pacific railroad stickers for $5.95. They are 7/8" wide & 1" height.
Thanks for the comparison. I may be wrong but I think the Menards corrugated carriers are more similar if not the same size as the ones by Lionel.
@LT1Poncho posted:Thanks for the comparison. I may be wrong but I think the Menards corrugated carriers are more similar if not the same size as the ones by Lionel.
To the Lionel traditional, not even close. This reply by @WBC had comparison photos. They are close to the same cross section as the Lionel scale car but much shorter.
Lionel scale v Menards
Brendan
@Gary Yada posted:amazon has a 50 pack of shield shaped Union Pacific railroad stickers for $5.95. They are 7/8" wide & 1" height.
Amazon also has Santa Fe stickers.
And here is how they look on the car.
I don't believe that the Santa Fe Railway painted their cars like this, but not bad looking
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I'm looking on Amazon, but not for railroad logo sticker packs. I think I can do better than those.
What I'm investigating instead are clear vinyl inkjet-compatible sticker paper, and to a lesser extent. white vinyl or something equivalent with a glossy or semi-glossy finish. I figure I can pull down suitable logos using Google images, then vector-trace the artwork. yielding an image that can be re-sized without sacrificing quality. Knowing the size of the blank panel on the autoracks, I can then print the various logos on sticker paper/vinyl at the right size to fit the blank panels.
As for logos, I eyeballed some videos to see which logos are suitable for the yellow and brown (burgandy) paint schemes, either as a logo on clear or solid color that fits the single-panel blank. As an afterthought, I also started to add car numbers that I spotted the following logos on, links to examples of suitable logos.
Yellow car:
- Ferromex (black on clear) -- [example]
- Norfolk Southern (black "thoroughbred NS" on clear, 'NORFOLK SOUTHERN' spelled out under initials) -- [example]
- Norfolk Southern (black striped NS with 'NORFOLK SOUTHERN spelled out on two lines beneath initials) -- [example]
- CSX "boxcar" (black on clear) -- [example]
- CSX (black underlined on solid yellow) -- [example]
- CN (black initials on solid yellow with 'WWW.CN.CA' subscript) -- [example - missing subscript]
- CN (black 'noodle' CN on solid yellow) -- [example]
- CSX (black outline yellow letters w/underline on clear)** -- [ttgx 922161]
- TTX (red lettering on clear) -- [example]
- CN (red initials on clear with black WWW.CN.CA subscript)
- CN (red initials on clear with black 'WWW.CN.CA' centered beneath) -- [ttgx 702421]
- CN (black initials on clear with 'WWW.CN.CA' centered beneath)
- CN (red 'noodle' initials only on clear) -- [ttgx 986723, 975653]
- Canadian Pacific (white modern CP initials on solid red)
- Canadian Pacific (white modern 'CANADIAN PACIFIC on two lines, on solid red) -- [example]
Brown (burgandy) car:
- Conrail (white on solid brown)
- Norfolk Southern (black striped NS with 'NORFOLK SOUTHERN spelled out on two lines beneath "NS") -- [ttgx 993614]
Some schemes place their logos in places other than the Menards' car positions their blank. KCS places their logos on two panels on either side of the center, and BNSF has their logo on the right side, opposite where most other railroads placed theirs. Southern Pacific has theirs on two panels near the center, and some Conrail cars have a secondary panel on the left end with the "Conrail Quality" logo.
Decals can still be made for the "perforated" panels where the above logos would sit, but they'd likely have to be water-slide ones as simple adhesive "sticker paper" wouldn't conform to the panel contours, or would need a styrene plate to be glued over them for a flat surface. For the same reason I left out railroad logos that cover two panels, notably Union Pacific, some KCS and modern CP.
* done by printing the background color on white sticker paper/vinyl
** may need extra measures to get the yellow to show up clearly over a clear surface
---PCJ
Haven't forgotten about this, a couple of weekends passed (at least) before I got around to ordering these to experiment with making stickers for those blank panels. Both examples came from Amazon.
Now, to collect some appropriate logos and see if I can make (correctly sized) stickers out of them...
(something that will compete for time with other computer art projects in my limited free time)
---PCJ
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@Darrell posted:Here they are running on my layout. 031 inner loop/042 outer loop - 072 switches make up the crossover. One car did uncouple during testing and they do wobble a bit.
If they wobble, are the cars weighted to NMRA specs of 5oz plus 1oz per linear inch of car? If not consider doing so and add the weight as close or around the trck pins as possible.
Anytime I’ve had a wobble like that it’s always caused by a wobbly wheel. Really no fix other than replacing the wheel and axle set.
@prrhorseshoecurve posted:If they wobble, are the cars weighted to NMRA specs of 5oz plus 1oz per linear inch of car? If not consider doing so and add the weight as close or around the trck pins as possible.
Pulled out one of mine to weigh it. 1 pound 2.4 ounces. Carbody is 17"
I didn't do the math...
...okay nevermind, it's 18.4 ounces. So 5 plus 17 equals 22 ounces if you go by the NMRA. A little light out of the box. I think the mounting points are a little loose considering the height of the cars.
---PCJ
I think you'll find that the wobble comes from the mounting points, that seems to be common for many Menard's cars.
Since they had coupler issues also, I just replaced the trucks. I had to redo the mounting to do so and now they don't wobble at all. You can see it all in the "What's on the workbench" thread.
@Darrell posted:Since they had coupler issues also, I just replaced the trucks. I had to redo the mounting to do so and now they don't wobble at all. You can see it all in the "What's on the workbench" thread.
That's the deluxe method for sure, I'm doing that to a bunch of Menard's boxcars. Sadly, that kinda' removed the "bargain" price when I have to buy a set of trucks.
Know what you mean John, but with the added cost of the mth trucks I still only paid $53 per car. The traditional size ( 13.5" ) lionels list for $80 per car, and the scale ones are $120 ( at 24" they are too big for my current layout ). I still saved over $100, not a big bargain, but still a bargain in my books.
Bit the bullet and bought a yellow one. Sadly, I'd forgotten about them on O22 switches (those, 011s, and 2x AF O-42 switches are the only ones we have--and we just bought more of the O22 switches). So, it might have to go back, but we'll see when we set up our track. And, it looks great!
@Micro posted:Bit the bullet and bought a yellow one. Sadly, I'd forgotten about them on O22 switches (those, 011s, and 2x AF O-42 switches are the only ones we have--and we just bought more of the O22 switches). So, it might have to go back, but we'll see when we set up our track. And, it looks great!
Set up the track and run the freight cars to see how it works.
Andrew
