New GGD 8 car passenger sets

@WinstonB posted:

Golden Gate Depot added Southern Crescent and T&P / MOPAC 8 car sets in aluminum.

Yep. T&P and MP are the Texas EAGLE. each consist offers 4 “extra” cars Plus Penn and B&O thru sleepers in MP Eagle colors. 

A properly done Crescent has been long overdue.  Good thing I have the plan book for it.  

I also have several books and few issues of the Eagle to cover that train as well.

Good news!

I will probably go in for a Crescent set. Just a lot of money, but a train that I would have a hard time passing up.

For more MP TP background, cross over to “hi rail “ section and check out “GGD Missouri Pacific Eagle.......” thread. 
😬👍

@GG1 4877 posted:

A properly done Crescent has been long overdue.  Good thing I have the plan book for it.  

I also have several books and few issues of the Eagle to cover that train as well.

Good news!

Well this will be vary interesting on the Mopac and T&P sets. His advertisement lacks a little to be desired information for me to jump in and order set sat this time .    The dome car  should be an all welded car not riveted as some may think built by Pullman. Just make sure of what you will get.  Budd cars as well they are distinctive in style.    The attached photos  model was made of ,020: Brass  sheeting from scratch, the Dome section was fabricated from 17 pieces and soldered together .  Won first place O scale West 2019 By Bill Basden.

A really true Texas Eagle train is more than 8 cars .  Originally it ran with 14 cars and with Porthole E 6 A B locomotives. He will need to do a rerun corrected model of  E6 6 A B from the first run. He did not want to do E 7 he would have to do a new die with Portholes

Now if he does this correctly , you can make up 3 separate trans. Texas Eagle ----- West Texas Eagle--- and  Louisiana Eagle . With Pool cars from B&O    NYC   PRR Pen Texas Eagle.

So The reservations will tell the story.

Bob Harris

Just got my order in for the 8 car Crescent set. I emailed Scott to see about having him add the sleeper/ lounge cars to the add on list. If anyone else is interested in this car, please let him know so we can make it happen. 3 of the 4 original survive with 1 in operation and the other 2 undergoing restoration.

@Bob Harris posted:

Well this will be vary interesting on the Mopac and T&P sets. His advertisement lacks a little to be desired information for me to jump in and order set sat this time .    The dome car  should be an all welded car not riveted as some may think built by Pullman. Just make sure of what you will get.  Budd cars as well they are distinctive in style.    The attached photos  model was made of ,020: Brass  sheeting from scratch, the Dome section was fabricated from 17 pieces and soldered together .  Won first place O scale West 2019 By Bill Basden.

A really true Texas Eagle train is more than 8 cars .  Originally it ran with 14 cars and with Porthole E 6 A B locomotives. He will need to do a rerun corrected model of  E6 6 A B from the first run. He did not want to do E 7 he would have to do a new die with Portholes

Now if he does this correctly , you can make up 3 separate trans. Texas Eagle ----- West Texas Eagle--- and  Louisiana Eagle . With Pool cars from B&O    NYC   PRR Pen Texas Eagle.

So The reservations will tell the story.

Bob Harris

 

@Bob Harris posted:

Well this will be vary interesting on the Mopac and T&P sets. His advertisement lacks a little to be desired information for me to jump in and order set sat this time .    The dome car  should be an all welded car not riveted as some may think built by Pullman. Just make sure of what you will get.  Budd cars as well they are distinctive in style.    The attached photos  model was made of ,020: Brass  sheeting from scratch, the Dome section was fabricated from 17 pieces and soldered together .  Won first place O scale West 2019 By Bill Basden.

A really true Texas Eagle train is more than 8 cars .  Originally it ran with 14 cars and with Porthole E 6 A B locomotives. He will need to do a rerun corrected model of  E6 6 A B from the first run. He did not want to do E 7 he would have to do a new die with Portholes

Now if he does this correctly , you can make up 3 separate trans. Texas Eagle ----- West Texas Eagle--- and  Louisiana Eagle . With Pool cars from B&O    NYC   PRR Pen Texas Eagle.

So The reservations will tell the story.

Bob Harris

 I petitioned hard to get the E7 but I understand a new die just to get the portholes would not be economically feasible.  I’ve suggested An E6 (or 8) rerun to Scott - and tack it onto the E1,EA offering to make it happen quicker.  And what wrong with the MP E6 First run ?  Short of a “Key” model, it’s the best offered to date.

The MP TP EAGLE offering is barely announced.  I hope some “experts” can ALL step forward and contribute to fine tuning this never done before in “O” train.  There’s all kinds of possibilities on building a wonderful consist to either your taste, mixes of MP TP, or as close to prototypical as you can/want.  We Won’t get everything we want but it’ll be better than anything out there. The Texas EAGLE was a complex consist with Splits to New Orleans, Dallas-Fort Worth-El Paso on TP then another split to Houston and another to Austin, San Antonio-Laredo, then Via NDM to Mexico City.  Build your consist to meet what YOU like.  LOTS of options !!!!  (And the NYC pool sleeper was not included as it ended by 1950. The 5 bedroom-lounge is a cool extra to add as there were only 3 / one MP and two TP.  And I’d like to see a NDM 10-6 added too.

Bring on the MP TP experts !!!!!!  Make this as good as it can be !!!!!

Im sure I’ll have more to add later.  Cheers

TrainBub

I'm in a dilemma as to whether or not I want Scott to do another run of E8s. Southern usually ran 4 of them on the Crescent, and so while the 3rd Rail units would be gorgeous, that's a ridiculous amount of money for me to spend on top of the train itself. I may have to go with Lionel's upcoming release at roughly half the cost.

@Will Ebbert posted:

I'm in a dilemma as to whether or not I want Scott to do another run of E8s. Southern usually ran 4 of them on the Crescent, and so while the 3rd Rail units would be gorgeous, that's a ridiculous amount of money for me to spend on top of the train itself. I may have to go with Lionel's upcoming release at roughly half the cost.

Wow. 4 units. To accommodate that plus the minimum 8 car consist you need to have a layout that fits in a strip shopping center. 😳

Well.  A bit of an exaggeration but still ....... a huge layout. I’m glad I don’t have to worry about that. 

@TrainBub posted:

 

 

 

The person who helped put the data package together for the MP E6 worked very hard to make sure all the ducks were in a row on this model to be really great. It was only  months later things were found  and to late to correct. Scott tried to get things corrected but it was to late in the process  a lot of money that the builder wanted to correct.  The A unit rates an 9 on a 10.

The main issue is the B unit is a 7 out of 10. The photo will show the biggest error is the Porthole location, builder wanted 6 K to correct it. It did not get done. But if he does these again you may have to live with it as the first.

Bob Harris

@Bob Harris posted:

The person who helped put the data package together for the MP E6 worked very hard to make sure all the ducks were in a row on this model to be really great. It was only  months later things were found  and to late to correct. Scott tried to get things corrected but it was to late in the process  a lot of money that the builder wanted to correct.  The A unit rates an 9 on a 10.

The main issue is the B unit is a 7 out of 10. The photo will show the biggest error is the Porthole location, builder wanted 6 K to correct it. It did not get done. But if he does these again you may have to live with it as the first.

Bob Harris

Thanks Bob. An E6 with as many corrections as possible on a run 2 will be nice. All except the errant porthole should be easy fixes (And be nice to offer MUs to run one buyers).  Even with the errors I think I’m in “tall cotton” As my E6 purchase was an upgrade from a MTH model - with square “portholes”.  I hope a run 2 happens - I will push for a offering of the late variant in Jenks blue.

The Texas EAGLE Sure needs another run of diesels to finish off the consist. There were only 2 MP E6 AB SETS. E8s were more plentiful and had distinct MP and TP nose art. Alco PAs are always gorgeous. The 8s are nice for specific MP or TP consists but roamed the entire “empire”. Let’s hope there will be enough interest to make a run 2 happen. The 6 has only one run so far so might be a more likely possibility as part of a larger 6 run.  
Let’s hope some good diligence will be present in the Texas Eagles planning and production !!!!

@TrainBub posted:

Thanks Bob. An E6 with as many corrections as possible on a run 2 will be nice. All except the errant porthole should be easy fixes (And be nice to offer MUs to run one buyers).  Even with the errors I think I’m in “tall cotton” As my E6 purchase was an upgrade from a MTH model - with square “portholes”.  I hope a run 2 happens - I will push for a offering of the late variant in Jenks blue.

The Texas EAGLE Sure needs another run of diesels to finish off the consist. There were only 2 MP E6 AB SETS. E8s were more plentiful and had distinct MP and TP nose art. Alco PAs are always gorgeous. The 8s are nice for specific MP or TP consists but roamed the entire “empire”. Let’s hope there will be enough interest to make a run 2 happen. The 6 has only one run so far so might be a more likely possibility as part of a larger 6 run.  
Let’s hope some good diligence will be present in the Texas Eagles planning and production !!!!

Let’s hope some good diligence will be present in the Texas Eagles planning and production !!!!   I totally agree that this is needed, and the porthole is not an easy fix. You are looking to correct the die or insert that is the issue. The cost is still there.

I too hope Scott has some good experts on board on this one. there is only maybe two people that I know of that have the knowledge and time to help. I do not know if they are. It is a lot of work to put a package together to meet the goal to please people.

Bob Harris

@Bob Harris posted:

Let’s hope some good diligence will be present in the Texas Eagles planning and production !!!!   I totally agree that this is needed, and the porthole is not an easy fix. You are looking to correct the die or insert that is the issue. The cost is still there.

I too hope Scott has some good experts on board on this one. there is only maybe two people that I know of that have the knowledge and time to help. I do not know if they are. It is a lot of work to put a package together to meet the goal to please people.

Bob Harris

 

 

Steering the offering to Just the Texas EAGLES was a good first step.  All EAGLES would have been a dysfunctional manufacturing pain. Even though the Texas EAGLE will be two offerings, they have the same paint and equipment with mostly only Differences of Numbering, names, and small road lettering by the doors. Even Penn and B&O thru sleepers conform to MP TP standards. There are some details that will probably come out But there’s plenty of time to fine tune. 

I know this isn't the O Gauge Railroading library shelf, however, Texas & Pacific modelers may not know about a book that perhaps many T&P fans have never heard of themselves.  It's not a railroad book, rather an indepth study that covers railroads, highways, avation, industry, oil, gas, ranching, cattle, etc. found on the T&P between Ft. Worth and El Paso.  It still remains a very interesting read in itself. 

Title: Tomorrow in West Texas:Economic Opportunities Along the Texas & Pacific Railway

Author: Sidney L. Miller

Publisher: The Texas Tech Press, Lubbock, TX, 1956  (This book was their entrance into the publishing field and was financed in part by the T&P no less!)

Hardcover, published with dustjacket, 643pp

Do a Google search or check out: www.abebooks.com

Well I see Scott will be modifying Eagle consist/offering based on customer input. Keep the feedback going to Scott. 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍

Lets aspire for the best 

Scott added the sleeper/ lounge to the Crescent set, This is very exciting! 

@Dj'sOgaugetrains posted:

Scott added the sleeper/ lounge to the Crescent set, This is very exciting! 

Fantastic! I'll update my order! 

@Will Ebbert posted:

Fantastic! I'll update my order! 

Great! Same here. I do have one questions. I know the Crescent ran sleepers through from the PRR & the Southern Pacific’s Sunset Limited. So would the proper PRR sleeper be a Tuscan 10-6 or one of the Southern 10-6 sleepers lettered “Pennsylvania”. If the Southern has some sleepers with Pennsylvania written on them it would be a great suggestion for Scott. 

@Dj'sOgaugetrains posted:

Great! Same here. I do have one questions. I know the Crescent ran sleepers through from the PRR & the Southern Pacific’s Sunset Limited. So would the proper PRR sleeper be a Tuscan 10-6 or one of the Southern 10-6 sleepers lettered “Pennsylvania”. If the Southern has some sleepers with Pennsylvania written on them it would be a great suggestion for Scott. 

I'm not familiar with them having Pennsy and SP cars. Louisville & Nashville had a significant number of cars in the pool I know, then I think Atlanta & West Point had a few coaches. To me, L&N would be the best option besides Southern. 

I’m very interested in also seeing MP Extras offered in Jenks Blue. Later in the life of the EAGLE, many/most cars were repainted dark blue AND the consists became pretty head-end “centric. But there were also sleepers and DOMES in blue. If offered in blue, we could put together our own consists. 
Needed ——> baggage, Coach, dome, (any) sleeper.  NDM also ran  10-6 sleepers with these blue cars. It would be a great extra also !!!!

Email Scott if you’d like to see these extras !!!!   This is OUR opportunity to make this EAGLE offering a REALLY GREAT  ONE !!!!!!

Cheers !!!

TrainBub

@TrainBub posted:

I’m very interested in also seeing MP Extras offered in Jenks Blue. Later in the life of the EAGLE, many/most cars were repainted dark blue AND the consists became pretty head-end “centric. But there were also sleepers and DOMES in blue. If offered in blue, we could put together our own consists. 
Needed ——> baggage, Coach, dome, (any) sleeper.  NDM also ran  10-6 sleepers with these blue cars. It would be a great extra also !!!!

Email Scott if you’d like to see these extras !!!!   This is OUR opportunity to make this EAGLE offering a REALLY GREAT  ONE !!!!!!

Cheers !!!

TrainBub

Jenks absolutely not. . If Scott goes this way I am totally out. 4000 dollars for that.

I understand  he is having a hard time to get the right people who knoy the railroad and prototype to help pull this off.  Or a mess will be the your Lionel or MTH  models

BH

@Bob Harris posted:

Jenks absolutely not. . If Scott goes this way I am totally out. 4000 dollars for that.

I understand  he is having a hard time to get the right people who knoy the railroad and prototype to help pull this off.  Or a mess will be the your Lionel or MTH  models

BH

Bob

Have some respect !!!!!   Everyone should Be able to have a voice. You are entitled to your preferences but Read my note !!!! READ MY NOTE !!!!!   I said Jenks blue EXTRAS !!!! Extras !!!!!  like in single car purchases. The 1950s EAGLES went into the 60s. There may be some that might like the OPTION of having some Jenks cars. This may be the only opportunity to ever do it.  

This EAGLE will get done and it will be quite nice. 

I’ve placed my reservation !!! 😜  
Have you ?

TrainBub

All Jenks blue will do is cause me to order more coach and dome cars. =) Would be in for these cars as part of the set or extra. They help make the constant. Just my 2 cents. 

@TrainBub posted:

Bob

Have some respect !!!!!   Everyone should Be able to have a voice. You are entitled to your preferences but Read my note !!!! READ MY NOTE !!!!!   I said Jenks blue EXTRAS !!!! Extras !!!!!  like in single car purchases. The 1950s EAGLES went into the 60s. There may be some that might like the OPTION of having some Jenks cars. This may be the only opportunity to ever do it.  

This EAGLE will get done and it will be quite nice. 

I’ve placed my reservation !!! 😜  
Have you ?

TrainBub

Yes that is all we want is the correct consist quite nicely done. He needs to spell out just what he is going to do and stick with it. All Eagle Blue cars are ACF or Pullman- Budd cars as well. The exception are the PRR pool cars Painted BG  The Eagle  with PRR on the ed letter board area. these were the 10 6 ACF types. Or other pool cars as well.

Now for the ones that are saying me need this and that that act like experts, I do not see the most prevalent car on the Mopac mentioned and the had 40 + are you ready answer is  14/4   14/ 2 /1.  They need these in the 8 car sets.

Now for respect, I am showing that .I have posted several Brass hand built award wining models to convey what is needed for correct types to make a nice train.

Bob Harris

@vash44 posted:

All Jenks blue will do is cause me to order more coach and dome cars. =) Would be in for these cars as part of the set or extra. They help make the constant. Just my 2 cents. 

Well no matter what the “final” offering looks like, it’s going to be an expensive proposition for me. I’m in for a MP 8 car consist for starters. I intend to add the 4 extras in TP and an extra MP 5BR- Lounge as a 5th. Then there’s the Penn, B&O thru sleepers (subject to modification). And if enough people interested, Jenks EXTRAS. This could be the bank breaker 😳 as I’d want two or three baggage (mail), coach, dome (yes there were BLUE domes), and a sleeper. Oh my!!!!!! That’s an obscene amount of extras. 😳😳🤪😜🤯😮😛  I’ll have to see how this all plays out !!!! 
it’s still early !!!!  My goal is to be able to run two Texas consists (1 MP AND 1 TP) and have a Jenks consist for later modeling. 
Unlike SF SP, Penn modelers, this May be the only chance we get to buy WELL DONE models !!!!!!!

Cheers !!!!!  
TrainBub

@Bob Harris posted:

Yes that is all we want is the correct consist quite nicely done. He needs to spell out just what he is going to do and stick with it. All Eagle Blue cars are ACF or Pullman- Budd cars as well. The exception are the PRR pool cars Painted BG  The Eagle  with PRR on the ed letter board area. these were the 10 6 ACF types. Or other pool cars as well.

Now for the ones that are saying me need this and that that act like experts, I do not see the most prevalent car on the Mopac mentioned and the had 40 + are you ready answer is  14/4   14/ 2 /1.  They need these in the 8 car sets.

Now for respect, I am showing that .I have posted several Brass hand built award wining models to convey what is needed for correct types to make a nice train.

Bob Harris

It’s still VERY EARLY in the offering. I ask for EVERYONE to contribute to this effort. I’ve dumped a considerable amount of information upon Scott for EVERY EAGLE. It’s a lot for him to soak in !!!! He gets to figure out how to make as many people as he can happy By offering the RIGHT/Correct consist (s) and oh - it needs to be economically viable for him - otherwise whats the point for him. I KNOW we are going to get a REALLY NICE model (s) (but I’m not going to be rivet counter either) We are not going to get Everything we want (But we can try 😜🤣). There a lot of “moving parts” to the EAGLE. Let’s contribute what we know to assure it’s THE BEST. 
CHEERS  !!!!! 
TrainBub

@TrainBub posted:

It’s still VERY EARLY in the offering. I ask for EVERYONE to contribute to this effort. I’ve dumped a considerable amount of information upon Scott for EVERY EAGLE. It’s a lot for him to soak in !!!! He gets to figure out how to make as many people as he can happy By offering the RIGHT/Correct consist (s) and oh - it needs to be economically viable for him - otherwise whats the point for him. I KNOW we are going to get a REALLY NICE model (s) (but I’m not going to be rivet counter either) We are not going to get Everything we want (But we can try 😜🤣). There a lot of “moving parts” to the EAGLE. Let’s contribute what we know to assure it’s THE BEST. 
CHEERS  !!!!! 
TrainBub

And yes I know the prevalent sleepers. At least one of them need to replace the observation car. The observation car is not prototypical in the Texas Eagles. For those people that need it, I believe it can be offered as an extra car !!!  IMHO !!!

14/4 & 14/2/1 seem like a logical replacement for the observation car which is not prototypical to the Texas Eagle. From my understanding the 14/4’s and 14/2/1’s have the same window arrangements and simply have different interior arrangements; meaning if this car was tooled up as part of the run, you could actually get 2 sleeper types out of one tooling. If I am wrong in this please correct me.

I would like to see the 14/4’s and 14/2/1’s added in place of the observation car. 

@BigJohn&theWork posted:

14/4 & 14/2/1 seem like a logical replacement for the observation car which is not prototypical to the Texas Eagle. From my understanding the 14/4’s and 14/2/1’s have the same window arrangements and simply have different interior arrangements; meaning if this car was tooled up as part of the run, you could actually get 2 sleeper types out of one tooling. If I am wrong in this please correct me.

I would like to see the 14/4’s and 14/2/1’s added in place of the observation car. 

John 

Thanks for contributing this info to the thread !!!! I try not to “shovel” too much info out at once.  So this coming from another source is important to demonstrate balanced contributions. Please !!! Contributions from everyone are Important. AND email Scott this info !!! Two for one is REALLY cool and should be an EASY DO for Scott !!!!  These are “common” cars on the EAGLE.  BUT he’s the one that will “juggle” the works to make it work. (The observation car could be an Excellent selling Extra for those that have to have one )

@BigJohn&theWork posted:

14/4 & 14/2/1 seem like a logical replacement for the observation car which is not prototypical to the Texas Eagle. From my understanding the 14/4’s and 14/2/1’s have the same window arrangements and simply have different interior arrangements; meaning if this car was tooled up as part of the run, you could actually get 2 sleeper types out of one tooling. If I am wrong in this please correct me.

I would like to see the 14/4’s and 14/2/1’s added in place of the observation car. 

Big John the 14 4 and the 14 1 2   were sub lettered for TP and  Mp  Ign  StLBM his is why they had so many. So they would run in either train as needed. Tey were lettered     like    TP      T   H  E       E  A   G   L  e       TP     on the lettered board.

 I do not know Why Scott is showing the Observation is for the Missouri River Eagle only of 1939

The MP or TP never ran with a Observation.

Bob  Harris

@BigJohn&theWork posted:

14/4 & 14/2/1 seem like a logical replacement for the observation car which is not prototypical to the Texas Eagle. From my understanding the 14/4’s and 14/2/1’s have the same window arrangements and simply have different interior arrangements; meaning if this car was tooled up as part of the run, you could actually get 2 sleeper types out of one tooling. If I am wrong in this please correct me.

I would like to see the 14/4’s and 14/2/1’s added in place of the observation car. 

I agree. The 14-4 is a must have extra car. Along with the 10-6 sleeper, both PRR and B&O ran 14-4 sleepers for The Eagle on  New York to El Paso and Washington to Fort Worth respectively. MOPAC 14-4 sleepers it seems were ubiquitous on The Eagle in and out of St. Louis.

@WinstonB posted:

I agree. The 14-4 is a must have extra car. Along with the 10-6 sleeper, both PRR and B&O ran 14-4 sleepers for The Eagle on  New York to El Paso and Washington to Fort Worth respectively. MOPAC 14-4 sleepers it seems were ubiquitous on The Eagle in and out of St. Louis.

No we have 3 people who get the picture now.

There was a 4TH TX EAGLE.  Palestine-Houston-Galveston branch!

Lots of good comments. Scott has most of this information already.  As I said earlier I’ve provided him with a large sheet of “ALL THINGS EAGLE”.  (Even after multiple sweeps of data, I kept finding more things to add.)  You All NEED to email Scott and voice your opinions !!!! Yah on sleepers. Yah about observation car not prototypical. Yah IGN and StB&M cars would be cool extras. Shoot high but know getting it all will be impossible. But lay it ALL out there !!!!  Go for as good a consist as we like.

@Dominic Mazoch posted:

There was a 4TH TX EAGLE.  Palestine-Houston-Galveston branch!

There were multiple splits in Texas going in many directions. 

@TrainBub posted:

There were multiple splits in Texas going in many directions. 

OK   I want the Texas Eagle version that would be the Aztec Eagle  going into Mexico city  It gets into Laredo and is handed over the the N de M  to  be pulled with a N de M Baldwin Centipede. to Mexico city.  Here is a photo of just that.

OK just to add some more fire for you. The trucks for the Eagle cars  are the 41N type used for all cars except the Budd cars  they would  have the general service type  4 wheel or 6 wheel under the 10/6 slab side sleepers.  It is imperative that these trucks are used for these.

These are the trucks imported by Wasatch models very expressive  about 200 per pair when you can get them.

Bob Harris

If anybody is knowledgeable about these Crescent, please speak up both here and by emailing Scott. I suggested the sleeper lounges, which was a great change to the lineup but that's about the extent of  my knowledge on the consist. I'd love for the Crescent to be as accurate as possible so please come forward with any info! 

@Bob Harris posted:

OK   I want the Texas Eagle version that would be the Aztec Eagle  going into Mexico city  It gets into Laredo and is handed over the the N de M  to  be pulled with a N de M Baldwin Centipede. to Mexico city.  Here is a photo of just that.

Great info.  I’ll be honest - finding Aztec Eagle info has been a real challenge Even with the internet !!!  And what little I can find Talks about mixed consists - never a complete MP consist.  NDM heavyweight coaches in front and sleepers bringing up the rear (with later purchased surplus NYC 10-6s) and some MP cars in the middle. If I recall cars were shuffled in San Antonio, then sent to Laredo where engines were swapped. The consist was then stopped in Nuevo Laredo  for customs.  Determining what went into San Antonio is the easy part. What went South of there, I’ve not compiled much info. Perhaps you can take the lead on this ???  I want to see Scott do a 10-6 in NDM paint as I know those made it into the system and got all the way to St. Louis Union Station. 
Boy. Pulled by a Baldwin Centipede. I wonder how that worked out. 

@Bob Harris posted:

OK just to add some more fire for you. The trucks for the Eagle cars  are the 41N type used for all cars except the Budd cars  they would  have the general service type  4 wheel or 6 wheel under the 10/6 slab side sleepers.  It is imperative that these trucks are used for these.

These are the trucks imported by Wasatch models very expressive  about 200 per pair when you can get them.

Bob Harris

The truck types are Definitely out of my expertise. My eyes glaze over and I defer to anyone. I like Correct, properly detailed trucks but for me, when they are painted black I can’t see them very well anyway.  Sorry.  Email this info to Scott to see what is possible !!!  I know this project won’t support $200/car trucks. 

@Will Ebbert posted:

If anybody is knowledgeable about these Crescent, please speak up both here and by emailing Scott. I suggested the sleeper lounges, which was a great change to the lineup but that's about the extent of  my knowledge on the consist. I'd love for the Crescent to be as accurate as possible so please come forward with any info! 

So here’s what I found out regarding the Sunset Limited & PRR pool cars. The Sunset Limited pool service sleeper was an Amtrak 10-6 sleeping car mixed in during the 70’s.

the PRR pool service sleeping car was #8351 “Birch River” this car is in the Altoona RR Museum now. 
l&n pool service sleepers were #3404 “pearl river” & #3411 “Kentucky River” 

both the PRR & L&N pool sleepers were 10-6 sleepers. 

www.rypn.org has some great info. Look up surviving Sou lightweight cars for a list of many of the cars used on the crescent. I’ll email Scott regarding these pool service cars too.

Here is information on the Crescent. After World War II in 1946, Southern Railway along with six other railroads(Western Railway of Alabama, Louisville & Nashville, Atlanta & West Point, Florida East Coast, New York Central, and Pennsylvania Railroad) placed an 141 car order of 11.5 million dollars to Pullman-Standard, Budd, and American Car and Foundry to replenish the Crescent, Southerner, and Royal Palm train sets. The order was placed in 1946 and was not delivered until late 1949 early 1950. Eight different car types were ordered: baggage-RPO, baggage-dormitory, two chair configurations (52&58 seat), dining car, two sleeper configurations (10-6, 1MR-2DR-lounge), and boattail sleeper-lounge observation car.

The Crescent, ran from New Orleans to Montgomery on the L&N; From Montgomery to Atlanta on the Western Railway of Alabama and Atlanta & West Point (The West Point Route); From Atlanta to Washington on Southern; and Washington to New York on the Pennsylvania. Each of the five railroads contributed equipment in approximate proportion to route miles served. Each car was stainless steel lightweight equipment and lettered for its owner using consistent black Gothic font.

Here is the breakdown:

Southern provided the balance of the cars needed. So, a Crescent train could have been all Southern or a mixture of the 5 Railroads. In 1950, the Crescent, normally would have been pulled by diesels on the L&N, E6 or E7; The West Point Route, FP7; Southern E6 or E7 (E8 after 1953), and GG1 on the Pennsy.

Tom

Thanks for the info Tom! So is the kitchen/ sleeper car and separate diner listed on the GGD site correct? I thought the Crescent just had a single kitchen/ diner. 

Hi Will,

I am a little confused by the term "Kitchen/Sleeper" that GGD uses. I do not see that term anywhere in reference to the Crescent from the books that I have. Who knows, I might learn something new. I did notice that the add says" We will be changing the consist based on customer input. Sit tight."

Tom

@Tom Morris posted:

Here is information on the Crescent. After World War II in 1946, Southern Railway along with six other railroads(Western Railway of Alabama, Louisville & Nashville, Atlanta & West Point, Florida East Coast, New York Central, and Pennsylvania Railroad) placed an 141 car order of 11.5 million dollars to Pullman-Standard, Budd, and American Car and Foundry to replenish the Crescent, Southerner, and Royal Palm train sets. The order was placed in 1946 and was not delivered until late 1949 early 1950. Eight different car types were ordered: baggage-RPO, baggage-dormitory, two chair configurations (52&58 seat), dining car, two sleeper configurations (10-6, 1MR-2DR-lounge), and boattail sleeper-lounge observation car.

The Crescent, ran from New Orleans to Montgomery on the L&N; From Montgomery to Atlanta on the Western Railway of Alabama and Atlanta & West Point (The West Point Route); From Atlanta to Washington on Southern; and Washington to New York on the Pennsylvania. Each of the five railroads contributed equipment in approximate proportion to route miles served. Each car was stainless steel lightweight equipment and lettered for its owner using consistent black Gothic font.

Here is the breakdown:

L&N
Number Series	Number of Cars	Dates Builder	Builder	Type	Comments
1120-1121	2	1949	P-S	Bag-RPO
1598-1599	2	1950	ACF	Bag-Dorm
3250-3251	2	1949	Budd	Chair	52 Seat
3252	1	1949	Budd	Chair	58 Seat
2790	1	1949	Budd	Dining Car	48 Seat
3400-3401	2	1949	P-S	10-6 Sleeper	Pearl River, Mobile River
3300-3301	2	1950	P-S	Sleeper Lounge Obs	Royal Canal, Royal Street
	12
W of A
Number Series	Number of Cars	Dates Builder	Builder	Type	Comments
87	1	1949	P-S	Bag-RPO
106	1	1949	Budd	Chair	52 Seat
	1	1949	P-S	10-6 Sleeper	Alabama River
	1	1950	P-S	Sleeper Lounge Obs	Royal Palace
	4
A&WP
Number Series	Number of Cars	Dates Builder	Builder	Type	Comments
68-69	2	1949	Budd	Chair	52 Seat
501	1	1949	Budd	Dining Car	48 Seat
	1	1949	P-S	10-6 Sleeper	Chattahoochee River
	4
PRR
Number Series	Number of Cars	Dates Builder	Builder	Type	Comments
8351-8358	8	1949	P-S	10-6 Sleeper	Birch River, Bush River
					Delaware River, Middle River
					Patapsco River, Raritan River
					Schuylkill River, Susquehanna River

 

Southern provided the balance of the cars needed. So, a Crescent train could have been all Southern or a mixture of the 5 Railroads. In 1950, the Crescent, normally would have been pulled by diesels on the L&N, E6 or E7; The West Point Route, FP7; Southern E6 or E7 (E8 after 1953), and GG1 on the Pennsy.

Tom

This is great info, thanks! And yeah I’ve never heard of a sleeper/ kitchen either. Seems like it would be a really interesting car if it is in fact prototypical for the crescent.

Looking at the info posted here and on RYPN, coupled with my knowledge of preserved cars, I think it's safe to say that the Crescent just used standard 48 seat dining cars. Unless someone can definitively say otherwise, I think revising the offering to include just a single dining (kitchen and 48 seat dining room) would be the most accurate.

I know it's early, but I'd also be interested to know if all the cars in the set will be Southern and the add on cars still be the other RRs or if some other combo is planned. I know I would love to see Western Railway of Alabama cars done if at all possible. No matter what, this set will be great. Thanks @sdmann for making it happen! 

So regarding the crescent here’s what I found from the web regarding the sleeper/ kitchen & sleeper/lounge:

http://www.wataugavalleynrhs.org/crescentharbor.php

The sleeper/ kitchen and sleeper/ lounge cars are actually 1 car..... a sleeper lounge with a small kitchen inside the car. (There were two.  “crescent moon” & “crescent harbor”)

The 14 roomette is actually a 14 roomette/ 4 double bedroom sleeper. Seems like the correct 8-car consist would be:

1: RPO/ baggage

2: Baggage/Dorm

3: 52 seat coach

4: 14-4 sleeper

5: sleeper/kitchen/ lounge

6: 48 seat Diner

7: 10-6 sleeper

8: sleeper/ observation

pool service cars would be 10-6 sleepers from PRR, L&N, A&WP, & W of A.

also seems like extra coaches, 10-6, & 14-4 sleepers would be appropriate.

hopefully this gets us closer, please correct any errors.

One other note. The Crescent observation car prototype was also used on the L&N/ Seaboard “gulf wind” it was lettered for L&N and called “Royal Street” This would be a cool separate sale car.

I believe the kitchen in the sleeper lounges was just used as a snack bar/ grill. The dining car had its own kitchen for actual meals.

@Will Ebbert posted:

I believe the kitchen in the sleeper lounges was just used as a snack bar/ grill. The dining car had its own kitchen for actual meals.

Yeah, the floor plan shows a tiny kitchen used to service the lounge. The link in my above post shows the car floor plan.

Hi DJ & Will,

"Eight different car types were ordered: baggage-RPO, baggage-dormitory, two chair configurations (52&58 seat), dining car, two sleeper configurations (10-6, 1MR-2DR-lounge), and boattail sleeper-lounge observation car."

The 1MR-2DR-lounge that I mentioned above is the "Crescent" series cars. there were 4 of them:

#2350 Crescent City, #2351 Crescent Harbor, #2352 Crescent Moon, & #2353 Crescent Shores.

I have copies of the car diagrams that I would be glad to share with you. Just email me. My email is in my profile.

Tom

@Will Ebbert posted:

I'm in a dilemma as to whether or not I want Scott to do another run of E8s. Southern usually ran 4 of them on the Crescent, and so while the 3rd Rail units would be gorgeous, that's a ridiculous amount of money for me to spend on top of the train itself. I may have to go with Lionel's upcoming release at roughly half the cost.

I went for it.  I bought all four and broke the bank, but I have no regrets 🙈  Can’t wait for the GGD cars to arrive!

Who's cars are these above please?

What a handsome set of locomotives!

Golden Gate Depot is the future of O scale today!  Despite the fact the hobby has lost a good many manufacturers/importers in recent years, as I see it, they have been replaced with professionals like GGD, which as a matter of fact, should be placed at the top of the list!

Re: NdeM Aztec Eagle.  Perhaps Mexico should be considered part of the first "pre-NAFTA" passenger trains that operated during the Fabulous Fifties, joining America's D&H, Canada's CNR-GTW and CPR, all of which served cross border North American destinations on an international scale?

@lionel89 posted:

I went for it.  I bought all four and broke the bank, but I have no regrets 🙈  Can’t wait for the GGD cars to arrive!

They look beautiful! I ordered four of the Lionel Southern E8s and I'll get to open then next week.

That will make a realllllly loooong O scale train--but a beautiful one.

@TrainBub posted:

Yep. T&P and MP are the Texas EAGLE. each consist offers 4 “extra” cars Plus Penn and B&O thru sleepers in MP Eagle colors.

Are you SURE about the PRR thru sleepers? Scott M. wasn't sure as of last week.

I would be in for the "pool cars" if they have lettering for the PRR on their flanks.

@Will Ebbert posted:

They look beautiful! I ordered four of the Lionel Southern E8s and I'll get to open then next week.

Thank you!  Please post a video of your setup when they arrive.  I would love to see.  

@c.sam posted:

Who's cars are these above please?

What a handsome set of locomotives!

Thank you!  Those are the Lionel 21 inch cars.  

@prrhorseshoecurve posted:

Are you SURE about the PRR thru sleepers? Scott M. wasn't sure as of last week.

I would be in for the "pool cars" if they have lettering for the PRR on their flanks.

The PRR ran Eagle sleepers from Washington, DC to the southwest as well as running them from New York  They were (from DC) ACF 10 and 6 cars. I saw them leaving Baltimore throughout the 1950's. Scott knows this.

R. Heil - Sunset Models / Golden Gate Depot

Here is an image of the Crescent crossing Lake Ponchatrain east of New Orleans

@prrhorseshoecurve posted:

Are you SURE about the PRR thru sleepers? Scott M. wasn't sure as of last week.

I would be in for the "pool cars" if they have lettering for the PRR on their flanks.

Penn ran 10-6s and 10-5s on the Eagle and B&O ran 10-5s. So far Scott’s reservation page only offers one of these from these 2 roads, the Penn 10-6. For a superb EAGLE  consist, we need the B&O sleeper too. EMAIL Scott to have this B&O car added to the extra cars options/reservations !!!! All these cars are painted like the MP TP cars but have small “Penn” and “B&O” lettering showing ownership at the car ends on letter board that has written large “THE EAGLE”.  This lettering takes the place of the small lettering for “MP” or “T&P”.
Hopefully soon we will see a next updated offering.  Scott so far has added a NDM10-6 (Aztec EAGLE) but it only shows up on the reservation page.

@c.sam posted:

Here is an image of the Crescent crossing Lake Ponchatrain east of New Orleans

The Crescent made a connection in New Orleans for thru sleepers to go to LA on the SP Sunset Limited. Specific named cars were designated for this transcontinental service. Anyone interested in Scott offering these ?  He recently did this for the SF Super Chief cars that were passed on to Penn and B&O. These Crescent cars were mostly identical to any other Crescent car but a few had a spot of modest red SP color. You have to be into thru sleepers or “complete” consists to want these.
EMAIL Scott if interested. The SF, Penn, and B&O fans got what they wanted in the Thru sleeper category.

@rheil posted:

The PRR ran Eagle sleepers from Washington, DC to the southwest as well as running them from New York  They were (from DC) ACF 10 and 6 cars. I saw them leaving Baltimore throughout the 1950's. Scott knows this.

R. Heil - Sunset Models / Golden Gate Depot

Bob, Is the model being built an ACF 10-6 or Pullman 10-6?  You know my reasoning...A Pullman 10-6 could also/maybe be painted/lettered for the Seaboard Air Line.  Any way we could see what diagram/plan is being used so a determination can be made as to placing an order?

When GGD did the Silver Meteor, the Pullman 10-6 was tossed out because of the different roof and fluting designs.  This may be my only chance of getting a Pullman 10-6 "PORTSMOUTH" sleeper.  Even if I had to repaint/letter it myself, but it has to be correct:

Here's the new Lionel E8s. I bought 2 pairs which gives me 4 powered units, 2 of which have sound. I'll eventually renumber one of the pairs, but for now they're both 6901 and 6914. Lionel did a pretty good job on these with road and even several number specific details. 6914 has a Mars light and grab irons while 6901 does not. The sounds are pretty good. These have the updated LRS with 5 horns and bells to choose from. The crew talk has some new additions which are more entertaining even if no more realistic. Overall I'll give these an 8.5/10. The big task will be fixing the pilots and covering to Kadee couplers.

@Will Ebbert posted:

Here's the new Lionel E8s. I bought 2 pairs which gives me 4 powered units, 2 of which have sound. I'll eventually renumber one of the pairs, but for now they're both 6901 and 6914. Lionel did a pretty good job on these with road and even several number specific details. 6914 has a Mars light and grab irons while 6901 does not. The sounds are pretty good. These have the updated LRS with 5 horns and bells to choose from. The crew talk has some new additions which are more entertaining even if no more realistic. Overall I'll give these an 8.5/10. The big task will be fixing the pilots and covering to Kadee couplers.

Beautiful set!

From 1941 to 1968 the Pennsylvania Railroad passenger trains from their Philadelphia Broad Street Station to Penn Station in New York City.  The trains departed on the hour from 6 AM to 9 PM and hence the name "Clockers".  The consists were 3 coaches, 2 parlor, and a diner.  The cars were lightweights with a heavyweight diner.  My thought is that Scott might be able to produce sets using existing tooling.

Jan

http://www.thecoachyard.com/Pa...ent/PRR.Clocker.html

NEWLY UPDATED EAGLE CONSISTS/options posted on Scott’s Golden Gate Depot webpage.  Check it out.
For those waiting for revisions, Time to step up and place your reservation.

Cheers !!!!

@c.sam posted:

Here is an image of the Crescent crossing Lake Ponchatrain east of New Orleans

Sam,

Thanks for the memories!  This is the version of the Crescent I rode on when I was all of about 5 around 1974 from NO to NYC.  Note the Amtrak sleeper towards the back.  While the Southern retained the Crescent until 1979, Amtrak cars would often be part of the mix.  The other tells on the era of this photo is the late scheme Southern Green paint, the large lettering and numbering, and the Southern logo on the nose of the E8s.  All the signs of a 1970's Crescent. 

I clearly remember being in the dome, the room we had which was the family bedroom, and how friendly the porter was. 

Not add to the kitchen debate for this train, but I do know that the circa 1973-1975 version of the Broadway Limited did roster a dinner / crew dorm until replaced by a baggage dorm under the heritage rebuild program.  I don't know the origin of that car unfortunately.

@TrainBub posted:

Yep. T&P and MP are the Texas EAGLE. each consist offers 4 “extra” cars Plus Penn and B&O thru sleepers in MP Eagle colors.

How many prr thru sleepers will be made if i order multiples?

@prrhorseshoecurve posted:

How many prr thru sleepers will be made if i order multiples?

That will be up to Scott. I’ve seen GGD labeled box ends for cars with as many as four different numbers. My TRRA H&TS “Pullmans to  St. Louis Missouri Pacific Line” book shows 11 named Penn 10-6 thru sleepers. Lots of choices. Scott can be pretty accommodative. Try him with your request. You may not be alone with wanting multiples !!!  
Cheers 🙂

MP EAGLE - another update !!!

14-4 now added to “extra” car choices !!!

So now you can go for the prototypical consist - sans observation car or opt for the beautiful observation car consist and add a 14-4. Nice Option !!!! 😬  
CHOICE IS GOOD !!! 😜😆🤗👍

@TrainBub posted:

That will be up to Scott. I’ve seen GGD labeled box ends for cars with as many as four different numbers. My TRRA H&TS “Pullmans to  St. Louis Missouri Pacific Line” book shows 11 named Penn 10-6 thru sleepers. Lots of choices. Scott can be pretty accommodative. Try him with your request. You may not be alone with wanting multiples !!!  
Cheers 🙂

Typically there are 2 to 6 numbers per car based upon the number of cars ordered.  Numbers and car names are easy to add to car sets. 

I'm hoping Scott will post an updated Crescent roster soon. The add on cars offered will influence my overall order.

@GG1 4877 posted:

Typically there are 2 to 6 numbers per car based upon the number of cars ordered.  Numbers and car names are easy to add to car sets.

Thanks for some “official” feedback Jonathan. 2-6 is a good option. Numbers and names easy to add is always good to hear !!!

Well this thread has been inactive for awhile so let see if I can kick some life back into it. It doesn’t help that production grinds quite slowly but that just simply the way it is. Run 2 F3s have been delivered and included is my NDM model for the Texas EAGLE into Mexico as the Aztec EAGLE. The GGD EAGLE offering now includes at least one extra NDM car - a 10-6  sleeper. !!!!  These cars were seen as far north as Union Station in St. Louis.  
The NDM F3 is beautiful. I was surprised at the interior detail of the cab too. All in all, a great addition to my EAGLE power.
Cheers !!!

I'd really like an update on the Crescent consist. I know the list is tentative, but there are some changes that need to be made and would hopefully boost reservations.