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I just started a project to modify a Lionel USRA Mountain to a New Haven R-1-b class. The New Haven's original R-1's were the first USRA Mountains built, while the R-1-a's and R-1-b's that followed were close copies. For various reasons, engine numbers 3300 - 3309 and 3340 - 3348 are the closest matches to the Lionel model, and I am going for series 3340 - 3348 (exact number to be determined based on what tender I can locate).

I posted on the NHRHTA forum and received some piping and detailing diagrams - link to that page, as well as some prototype photos, are below.

NHRHTA Forum

I first removed the shell from the body, disconnected the marker lights, and removed the two angled pilot supports. Air pumps will be mounted where they were.

1 Front Pilot Support Removed

I picked up an Elesco feedwater heater (Precision Scale # 40839). It was oriented the wrong way with the cast in steam pipes, so I ground those off. The casting still needs to be cleaned up, and some imperfections filled.

2 Elesco Feedwater Heater

I next fitted a new trailing truck - the model came with a USRA style truck, while New Haven 3310 - 3348 had Delta trailing trucks. I figured that trucks from the same design era at Lionel would have a good chance of having the same mounting features and I was correct - the trailing truck from the 2002 Blue Comet is a drop in replacement for the 2001 Mountain.

3 Delta Truck

The truck geometry is slightly different right behind forward pivot point, so to maintain the ability to navigate an 0-36 curve I cut the corners slightly. A dremel tool took care of this in a few minutes. Without the modification, the engine could still navigate 0-48. The ground down portion is visible as the shiny area behind the rear driver in the second picture below.

4 Rear Truck Comparison

5 Rear Truck Modified

Next up were the air pumps - two Precision Scale # 4205. I needed to cut off 3/32" from the bottom of the pumps in order to have them sit at the correct height, top roughly even with the running boards. I also sanded down the rear corners to avoid the possibility of interference with the smokebox. The prototype had notches cut in the smokebox instead, but I'd rather not do that. First photo shows the first cut-down pump on top, and a an unmodified on the bottom.

6 Air Pumps Modified 1

7 Air Pumps Modified 2

8 Air Pumps on Pilot

Finally, I mocked up a set of air pump shields out of paper to check fitment. I'm happy with the footprint, so I'll most likely model them up in CAD with detail and have a set 3D printed.

9 Air Pump Shield Mockup

10 Air Pump Shield Mockup 2

11 Air Pump Shield Mockup 3

More to come.

~Chris

Attachments

Images (11)
  • 1 Front Pilot Support Removed
  • 2 Elesco Feedwater Heater
  • 3 Delta Truck
  • 4 Rear Truck Comparison
  • 5 Rear Truck Modified
  • 6 Air Pumps Modified 1
  • 7 Air Pumps Modified 2
  • 8 Air Pumps on Pilot
  • 9 Air Pump Shield Mockup
  • 10 Air Pump Shield Mockup 2
  • 11 Air Pump Shield Mockup 3
Last edited by C.Vigs
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Thank you Hot Water, Dave, and John.

Hot Water - I have a roll of .062" solder I have from the late, great Radio Shack that looks to be perfect, thanks for the suggestion. I just removed the supply line from the cab to the check valve this morning. I have a precision scale casting for the spiral-wrapped steam lines from the cylinders to the heater, I'll use solder for the other pipes (to and from the pump, the condensate line, and from the heater to the check valve.

One thing I just noticed following the piping diagrams supplied by the NHRHTA - the feedwater heater only supplies the fireman's side check valve, while a traditional injector supplies the engineer's side. Was this a normal setup, to only preheat half the incoming water?

Pipe and check valve removed, feedwater heater pump and an ATS box will eventually go where the current air pump is.

12 Water supply pipe removed

Solder fitment in the check valve:

13 Check Valve on Solder vs Pipe

I finished painting the Delta trailing truck and reinstalled it:

14 Delta Truck Installed

Lastly for this past week, I 3D modeled a set of air pump shields and sent them off to be printed. I expect to have some revisions after this first pass, but images of the current model below.

15 Air Shields Model 116 Air Shields Model 2

~Chris

Attachments

Images (5)
  • 12 Water supply pipe removed
  • 13 Check Valve on Solder vs Pipe
  • 14 Delta Truck Installed
  • 15 Air Shields Model 1
  • 16 Air Shields Model 2
@C.Vigs posted:

Thank you Hot Water, Dave, and John.

Hot Water - I have a roll of .062" solder I have from the late, great Radio Shack that looks to be perfect, thanks for the suggestion. I just removed the supply line from the cab to the check valve this morning. I have a precision scale casting for the spiral-wrapped steam lines from the cylinders to the heater, I'll use solder for the other pipes (to and from the pump, the condensate line, and from the heater to the check valve.

One thing I just noticed following the piping diagrams supplied by the NHRHTA - the feedwater heater only supplies the fireman's side check valve, while a traditional injector supplies the engineer's side. Was this a normal setup, to only preheat half the incoming water?

Yes. The feedwater system would always be the primary method of supplying water to the boiler, while the Injector would have been the "back-up" supply system. The ICC, now the FRA, required/requires two methods of supplying water to the boiler.





~Chris

A little more progress from the weekend. I cut the engineers side water pipe short, and cut and rotated the corresponding check valve. On the prototype the pipe dips below the running board and the check valve is mounted vertically.

17 Engineers Check Valve relocated

I removed the headlight and marker lights from the smokebox front, and filled the marker light mounting and wire holes with Bondo. The marker lights will be replaced and relocated to the smokebox sides. The feedwater heater was also covered in order to fill some voids and mold patterns in the casting.

18 Bondo smokebox front feedwater heater

Last thing filled with Bondo was the mounting holes for the water pipe on the firemans side. Lettering was also removed - some lacquer thinner on an old t-shirt took it off in seconds.

19 Bondo boiler holes

Now here's the rub - it seems Lionel originally painted the engine after all the separate piping details were applied, so there is a pretty prominent shadow on the boiler underneath where the water pipes used to be. Sanding the filler in the mounting holes flat also caused some scuffs. While I can, I'd rather not repaint the whole boiler, so I'd like suggestions on how to cover these areas and blend them in. I am already going to brush paint the smokebox.

20 Holes and pipe shadow 1

21 Holes and pipe shadow 2

~Chris

Attachments

Images (5)
  • 17 Engineers Check Valve relocated
  • 18 Bondo smokebox front feedwater heater
  • 19 Bondo boiler holes
  • 20 Holes and pipe shadow 1
  • 21 Holes and pipe shadow 2
Last edited by C.Vigs

Thanks for the advice, John and Dave.

I did pick up a can of SEM as a backup.

Next purchasing obstacle is the tender. I posted on the Wanted to Buy forum a few weeks ago, looking for a Vanderbilt tender or one of the large, 6-axle tenders from a Mohawk. I haven't found one yet, but I do have an opportunity to buy an 'almost' complete Mohawk tender frame (includes frame, trucks, and full TMCC electronics except the audio board). I can separately get a Mohawk tender shell, so the only thing I'd be missing is the audio board.

It looks like the frame has a Railsounds 5 package on it (no AD20 board), and I have a Railsounds 4 package in the smaller USRA tender that came with the Mountain. From what I have read, the AD20 functionality is in the audio board on RS 5 systems, so if I put the RS 4 audio board in an RS 5 package I would lose whatever functionality the AD20 adds. Does the AD20 board only control the rear light and coupler, or does it affect the sounds as well? As another option, now that Lionel has purged them, does anyone have a source for a large steam RS5 audio board?

On a side note, if anyone who sees this is willing to sell one of these tenders complete, I'm still open to that as well.

~Chris

Last edited by C.Vigs
@C.Vigs posted:

Thanks for the advice, John and Dave.

I did pick up a can of SEM as a backup.

Next purchasing obstacle is the tender. I posted on the Wanted to Buy forum a few weeks ago, looking for a Vanderbilt tender or one of the large, 6-axle tenders from a Mohawk. I haven't found one yet, but I do have an opportunity to buy an 'almost' complete Mohawk tender frame (includes frame, trucks, and full TMCC electronics except the audio board). I can separately get a Mohawk tender shell, so the only thing I'd be missing is the audio board.

It looks like the frame has a Railsounds 5 package on it (no AD20 board), and I have a Railsounds 4 package in the smaller USRA tender that came with the Mountain. From what I have read, the AD20 functionality is in the audio board on RS 5 systems, so if I put the RS 4 audio board in an RS 5 package I would lose whatever functionality the AD20 adds. Does the AD20 board only control the rear light and coupler, or does it affect the sounds as well? As another option, now that Lionel has purged them, does anyone have a source for a large steam RS5 audio board?

On a side note, if anyone who sees this is willing to sell one of these tenders complete, I'm still open to that as well.

~Chris

Chris, practice with the SEM,  it lays beautiful when you master the spray out …..it’s a true urethane product so she’s loosey goosey when wet,…..allow a flash between coats, I’ve turned a few folks onto the SEM, and they’ve never looked back,….I use the SEM satin trim black exclusively, but I buy the qt cans, and use a gun, ……the rattle can works very well though,…..like I said, once you’ve mastered your spray outs, you’ll never put it down…..tricks I’ve learned with both the rattle cans, & the catalyzed mix, a little wetter, retains some gloss, a little dryer, and she’ll dye back for ya,…..you can really play around with that product, ….hide is almost immediate, and the mil is thin enough not to kill details …..

Pat

I spent some more time on the feedwater heater this weekend. I want to dry-fit everything to make sure I like the pipe routings before painting and gluing, so I've adopted a pin-in-hole construction. Small holes are drilled into each component, and short section of phos. bronze wire is glued in place. Each mating component has another hole drilled. The fit is just tight enough that I can observe the routing and handle the boiler shell a little without everything falling out of place. I also sanded the filler on the feedwater heater down back to smooth surface.

Hole in the top of the smokebox:

22 FWH Mounting Hole

Pin on the bottom of the feedwater heater, and pin-and-hole connection between the steam pipe and feedwater heater:

23 FWH Pin & Hole

Engineers side steam pipe:

24 Engineers Side Steam Pipe

Firemans side steam pipe:

25 Firemans Side Steam Pipe

Two views of the smokebox front partially reassembled - marker lights have also been added:

26 Boiler Front 1

27 Boiler Front 2

~Chris

Attachments

Images (6)
  • 22 FWH Mounting Hole
  • 23 FWH Pin & Hole
  • 24 Engineers Side Steam Pipe
  • 25 Firemans Side Steam Pipe
  • 26 Boiler Front 1
  • 27 Boiler Front 2

Thanks John, Scotty, and Bill.

John - that feedwater heater looks good on the Mikado, and see you added the CN number boards as well. I always liked that look, good job.

Not much in the way of piping was done this last week, but I did receive my first revision of the air pump shields from Shapeways. They really complete the look and separate this from a standard USRA engine.

28 Air Shields Rev1 1

29 Air Shields Rev1 2

30 Air Shields Rev1 3

I only figured out how to mount these shields after I began playing around with revision 1 here - my original intention was to epoxy them in place after painting, but I am always in favor of making parts replaceable if damaged. I realized that with some longer mounting screws (courtesy of McMaster-Carr) and a larger base, the pilot-to-frame mounting point could be used to hold a single piece shield in place. Revision 2 is shown below, with adjusted spacing between the shields and a larger base with mounting holes. I also found out recently that the engineer's side shield, aside from being asymmetrical, was actually slightly taller than the fireman's side, so that has been modified as well.

31 Air Shields Rev 2

I have a few more detail parts on order to begin working on the piping again, as well as a few more miscellaneous items. I haven't yet found an appropriate feedwater heater pump for cab signal box, so I might need to 3D model and print those as well. They are mounted adjacent to each other, so if I need to go that route I'll have it made as a single part.

~Chris

Attachments

Images (4)
  • 28 Air Shields Rev1 1
  • 29 Air Shields Rev1 2
  • 30 Air Shields Rev1 3
  • 31 Air Shields Rev 2

Dave - I always thought this was one of Lionel's better proportioned engines, and was surprised how long it took for a second run (first was 2002?, second was 2019?). It's much better looking than the far too large "USRA" Pacific of this same design era at Lionel. Not very much exterior piping as the prototype is still 1919 vintage, but it's typical road power of thousands of engines that ran for the entirety of the commonly modeled steam era (1920-1955ish). IMO this size range is overlooked in O scale; below the Northerns, Big Boys, and Challengers but above Light Mikados and Pacifics. The Heavy Mikado is a nice addition, but I think we would benefit from a smaller to mid-size 2-10-2 as well (playing favorites, my example will be a New Haven Class L: NYNH&H STEAM - CLASS L 2-10-2 (google.com) )

~Chris

Thanks Pat! I think I'm going to spray the whole body and the separate detail parts with the SEM Trim Black you and Dave recommended, and then brush paint the smokebox with Vallejo Black-Gray before permanently mounting everything. Looking back on this thread I don't think I mentioned it - the smokebox front is brush painted Vallejo Black-Gray in the last few pictures. It went on smooth with no brush marks, I'm really liking this brand.

~Chris

Next revision of the air pump shields came in early and I'm largely happy with it. I replaced the two machine screws holding the front pilot on with longer ones, and the shield now bolts right in. I think I'm going to sand, paint, and install this piece before I continue with the rest of the feedwater heater piping.

32 Air Shields Rev 233 Air Shields Rev 234 Air Shields Rev 235 Air Shields Rev 236 Air Shields Rev 2

~Chris

Attachments

Images (5)
  • 32 Air Shields Rev 2
  • 33 Air Shields Rev 2
  • 34 Air Shields Rev 2
  • 35 Air Shields Rev 2
  • 36 Air Shields Rev 2

I like how you’re “largely happy with it “ …..that means you’ve left the door open for self criticism,……that’s how we roll with out own work, ….however, I remain largely unhappy with my work, and continuously ridicule myself …….probably why I have so many lumps on my head,……..

your work looks absolutely flawless!……don’t go down our rabbit hole, ….you can’t escape,……don’t be largely happy, be tickled to death with it!!

Pat

Pat, I too am my own worst critic - ask me how long I stared at this air shield, comparing its height to the 20 or so different reference photos I have. But I learned a long time ago that I have a bad habit of making things worse when striving for perfection.

Thanks for the compliments - they are incredibly meaningful from a master craftsman such as yourself.

~Chris

Chris, I have this engine stored away. I still love my NH stuff. But have now moved towards modeling the Rutland. I’m never going to see a Rutland 4-8-2 from a manufacture. Weaver was probably my last hope. I looked at it and about the only thing close is the wheel arrangement. Such a good well made runner with a Pittman shouldn’t reside under the layout.

You have given me hope. The best way to study an engine when the only thing available is old black and white  photos of dirty engines. Is to find pictures of unpainted HO brass one’s to study. You can clearly see the details when you zoom in. I’ve learned to live with not totally correct engines. As long as I can get some of it right as in certain details. They will be good enough. Your retrofitted trailing truck is just what I need. Looks dead on. The air pumps on the pilot. I’ve been looking at pictures and what Lionel offers. The Niagara’s look close enough. They have a screen between the 2 shields that’s looks exactly like the Rutland. I think I’m going to order up some parts and see where it goes. I have enough projects but this one will be #1. I’m not even going to wait for the half price sale.

Last edited by Dave_C
@Dave_C posted:

Chris, I have this engine stored away. I still love my NH stuff. But have now moved towards modeling the Rutland. I’m never going to see a Rutland 4-8-2 from a manufacture. Weaver was probably my last hope. I looked at it and about the only thing close is the wheel arrangement. Such a good well made runner with a Pittman shouldn’t reside under the layout.

You have given me hope. The best way to study an engine when the only thing available is old black and white  photos of dirty engines. Is to find pictures of unpainted HO brass one’s to study. You can clearly see the details when you zoom in. I’ve learned to live with not totally correct engines. As long as I can get some of it right as in certain details. They will be good enough. Your retrofitted trailing truck is just what I need. Looks dead on. The air pumps on the pilot. I’ve been looking at pictures and what Lionel offers. The Niagara’s look close enough. They have a screen between the 2 shields that’s looks exactly like the Rutland. I think I’m going to order up some parts and see where it goes. I have enough projects but this one will be #1. I’m not even going to wait for the half price sale.

Not to invade Chris’s thread Dave, but how far off is a LTI Lionel Mohawk from the Rutland L1? …..I used a L3a boiler & chassis to build a very convincing L&HR R1 4-8-2 …..usually, the 18009 Lionel L3a can be had for small money, even on that certain shopping site ……just curious how far off that platform would be?….I think I did a thread at one point of the L&HR R1, ……

Chris, I only play a craftsman on this TV show, in real life, I want to be a…..dentist ..😁

Pat

Pat, I did look at the Lionel L3a. Even owned one at one time. The chassis has the correct looking wheels and driver size. The boiler is a ways off as far as details. The USRA boiler is closer. The Rutland was a pretty uncluttered  clean looking loco. It featured a straight running board which neither have. The USRA shell on a Mohawk chassis would look good but still not close to correct. I have a MTH L3a. I may just throw the shell on it to see how it looks if it will fit. I’m just going for probably the least evasive way to do it for now and get some of it close to correct. Down the road if it looks good on the MTH chassis I may seek out a Lionel version and re motor it. I think I’m going  to have to settle for close enough. I don’t want to go to crazy on the engine seeing that the tender is still not going to be correct. They used the standard small NYC tender. The closest I’ve seen is the MTH one that came on some Pacifics. Even that needs some work.

Last edited by Dave_C

Go for it Dave, it'll be great seeing what you do with it! I've had a soft spot for the Rutland for a while - I was a member of the Rensselaer Model Railroad Club which had the New England, Berkshire, & Western Railroad (based on a combination of the Rutland and D&H).

With a Dremel and a good sander, removing running boards shouldn't be difficult, but it's a big psychological step - I've avoided a few projects for this reason in favor of lower hanging fruit. Whatever route you choose, the payoff will be magnificent - those green boilered Mountains in the Green Mountains look sleek.

As for my own project, one step forward one step back. Unable to find a suitable tender in one piece, I'm piecing one together.

The Good: Lionel has available on its parts support site an entire Mohawk tender frame with almost full electronics package - the only thing missing is the RS5 audio board. I picked one up, and put the RS4 audio board from the engines original tender to check it out. Sound functions as it should, but I cannot get electro couplers or a backup light without a proper RS5 audio board. Just another misc. item to keep an eye out for.

38 New Tender Frame

The bad: The coupler was damaged in shipping. I emailed Lionel and asked for a replacement.

39 Broken Coupler

The ugly: When I opened up the original tender to remove the RS4 audio board, I found this wire that had been pinched between the tender shell and frame for 22 years. Hasn't failed yet, but another thing on the agenda to fix.

37 Flat Wire Original Tender

~Chris

Attachments

Images (3)
  • 37 Flat Wire Original Tender
  • 38 New Tender Frame
  • 39 Broken Coupler

Chris, many years ago the Rensselaer club had an open house in the late summer. I managed a visit while on vacation. Layout was impressive. Trains ran awful probably because the layout was dormant for a few months. I think the track may have been brass. Not nickel silver. The bright boys were getting quite a workout.

  I saw a L2a  tender shell on eBay a while back. Almost bought it to use on a B&A Berk. But passed. So they are out there.

  If Lionel doesn’t come through with the coupler. I put Kadee’s on most of my steamers and I should have one. Hit my e mail if I can help you out.

I took a brief hiatus to work on a few other projects and decided to come back to this one today.

First, Lionel did send me a replacement coupler, and it has been swapped out on the truck. I also picked up an L-2 tender shell on eBay and removed the NYC lettering. I'll wait until I paint the engine before I decide whether I'm repainting the tender shell, or just gloss coating and decaling over the factory finish, but the tender is mechanically complete.

Part of the procrastination on my end was trying to locate an Elesco feedwater heater pump. PSC has one in their parts catalog, but I could not find it for sale anywhere. I would also have had to fashion a bracket to mount the pump and the adjacent cab signal box to the location on Lionel's boiler where the original air pump was.

I finally decided to 3D model the pump and signal box as a single piece and have it printed. Below are a few images of the rough model, to get some basic detail and check fitment/mounting. I'll have this printed, make whatever adjustments are needed, and probably add some more details (rivets/bolts, smaller pipes and protrusions, and hinges) before calling this part done.

40 Feedwater Heater Pump & Cab Signal Box Model 141 Feedwater Heater Pump & Cab Signal Box Model 2

Dave - summer was always the worst time on the NEB&W. It was all unplated brass, handlaid track, and the temperature and humidity wreaked havoc with it. In my time there we'd have full operating sessions in the fall and spring, when the humidity was under control, temperatures were even, and the students had been on-campus for a month or two to help make sure everything was in order. It could run well though - below is a timelapse video of the three main yards during an operating session, and it's one of my favorites of the layout available on YouTube. I'm not in it - I was the Dispatcher that day, which was a whole other experience.

New England, Berkshire, and Western Yard Ops Timelapse - YouTube

~Chris

Attachments

Images (2)
  • 40 Feedwater Heater Pump & Cab Signal Box Model 1
  • 41 Feedwater Heater Pump & Cab Signal Box Model 2

Back at this project after working on other things through the spring and summer.

I received a test print of the feedwater heater pump and cab signal box from Shapeways. It could use some more tweaking and details, but as this part just screws in where the original air pump was located I can move forward without the final version. I had a terrible experience with Shapeways on this part, and I'm looking for a new 3D printing service.

Front fireman's side showing piping down from the feedwater heater, and the air pumps and air pump shield painted and mounted on the pilot:

42 Air Pumps and Shields Painted Front Fireman Side Piping

Test print of the pump and cab signal box:

43 Feedwater Pump and CSB Rough

Roughed in rear fireman's side piping, replacing the injector pump that the stock model had here:

44 Rear Fireman Side Piping

~Chris

Attachments

Images (3)
  • 42 Air Pumps and Shields Painted Front Fireman Side Piping
  • 43 Feedwater Pump and CSB  Rough
  • 44 Rear Fireman Side Piping

A few photos from August that I neglected to post, showing the engineers side piping and the painted air pumps and pilot shields. Details of the pumps are lost in the shadows on my workbench but should be more visible on the layout.

45 Engineers Side Piping46 Engineers Side Piping and Shields47 Painted Pilot Shields

Now the past two weeks have been busy on this project again - the smokebox was hand brushed with Vallejo Gray-Black, same as the smokebox front.

48 Smokebox Painted

The bottom of the boiler was also given a few light coats of Tru-Color black. I've been practicing with my airbrush over the summer, and got lucky that the Tru-Color black blends nicely with the stock Lionel boiler paint so I don't need to repaint the whole shell. Individual detail parts were also painted at the same time.

49 Boiler Painted50 Pipes and details painted

I also removed the "New York Central" lettering from the Mohawk tender shell I acquired using a Q-tip and some lacquer thinner, and added "New Haven" decals. I eventually hope to have a Vanderbilt tender for this engine, so I left the road number off the back in case I want to repurpose this tender later.

51 Tender Painted

~Chris

Attachments

Images (7)
  • 45 Engineers Side Piping
  • 46 Engineers Side Piping and Shields
  • 47 Painted Pilot Shields
  • 48 Smokebox Painted
  • 49 Boiler Painted
  • 50 Pipes and details painted
  • 51 Tender Painted
Last edited by C.Vigs

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