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Robert K posted:

It’s going to need cab signals as well because the former PRR main through Altoona toward Pittsburgh and Harrisburg is cab signal territory. Lead locomotive must have cab signals. 765 needed them on its trips on the former PRR. Why is NS no longer allowing excursions? Liability reasons? Who insures R&N and Steamtown excursions, though? Or is it the issue that NS is a publicity traded company and the short lines are not and publicity traded companies that have to answer to shareholders have to spend their money wisely and minimize risk? NS no longer wants to be liable for having the general public riding on its tracks? So that means that all NS lines are now closed to excursions especially with the Amtrak special train ban.

We are assuming that NS will extend the same agreement that they have with the 765 - equipment may be moved over NS rail but passenger excursions are not allowed.  And yes, it's all about risk.  Any trips out of Steamtown (other then Federally operated) are over the 100 miles or so of Delaware-Lackawanna/PNRRA ROW usually insured and operated by a third party.  

Last edited by Montclaire
Montclaire posted:
Robert K posted:

It’s going to need cab signals as well because the former PRR main through Altoona toward Pittsburgh and Harrisburg is cab signal territory. Lead locomotive must have cab signals. 765 needed them on its trips on the former PRR. Why is NS no longer allowing excursions? Liability reasons? Who insures R&N and Steamtown excursions, though? Or is it the issue that NS is a publicity traded company and the short lines are not and publicity traded companies that have to answer to shareholders have to spend their money wisely and minimize risk? NS no longer wants to be liable for having the general public riding on its tracks? So that means that all NS lines are now closed to excursions especially with the Amtrak special train ban.

We are assuming that NS will extend the same agreement that they have with the 765 - equipment may be moved over NS rail but passenger excursions are not allowed.  And yes, it's all about risk.  Any trips out of Steamtown (other then Federally operated) are over the 100 miles or so of Delaware-Lackawanna/PNRRA ROW usually insured and operated by a third party.  

I don't see NS allowing excursions either. NS told the 611 crew before the Amtrak ban that they could run excursions on NS rails if 611 got Amtrak-certified. That never happened, and then the ban hit. If Amtrak were to reverse its decision (which it won't), then 1361 could run excursions on NS rails once certified. They really just don't want to be liable, which I can completely understand. 

GenesisFan99 posted:
Montclaire posted:
Robert K posted:

It’s going to need cab signals as well because the former PRR main through Altoona toward Pittsburgh and Harrisburg is cab signal territory. Lead locomotive must have cab signals. 765 needed them on its trips on the former PRR. Why is NS no longer allowing excursions? Liability reasons? Who insures R&N and Steamtown excursions, though? Or is it the issue that NS is a publicity traded company and the short lines are not and publicity traded companies that have to answer to shareholders have to spend their money wisely and minimize risk? NS no longer wants to be liable for having the general public riding on its tracks? So that means that all NS lines are now closed to excursions especially with the Amtrak special train ban.

We are assuming that NS will extend the same agreement that they have with the 765 - equipment may be moved over NS rail but passenger excursions are not allowed.  And yes, it's all about risk.  Any trips out of Steamtown (other then Federally operated) are over the 100 miles or so of Delaware-Lackawanna/PNRRA ROW usually insured and operated by a third party.  

I don't see NS allowing excursions either. NS told the 611 crew before the Amtrak ban that they could run excursions on NS rails if 611 got Amtrak-certified. That never happened, and then the ban hit. If Amtrak were to reverse its decision (which it won't), then 1361 could run excursions on NS rails once certified. They really just don't want to be liable, which I can completely understand. 

To add some clarity to all this discussion about excursions, steam or otherwise, both BNSF and NS are NOT completely opposed to excursions, so long as someone else provides the at least 750 million dollars worth of total liability insurance coverage. Previously, such excursions have operated, by specific contract, under Amtrak and were thus covered by Amtrak's insurance, thus neither BNSF, and NS in the future after their 21st Century Steam Program ended, had and problems operating an excursion, even it it was not on an "Amtrak Route".

Now that the CEO of Amtrak has made a blanket policy decision to no longer operate ANY excursions in the future, the results are: A) no more liability insurance to protect the host railroad, and B) no more passenger cars available for lease/rent for such excursions. Now, if a potential excursion operator could afford the unbelievably expensive premium for 750 million dollars worth of liability insurance coverage, and was able to put together a locomotive and train set (again, steam or diesel), then it is entirely possible that BNSF and/or NS would be open to operating an excursion, for a price.

As an example, the Friends of Milwaukee Road 261 have at their disposal a COMPLETE Milwaukee Road passenger train, with HEP. However, the really big hurdle will be covering the premium cost for 750 million dollars worth of liability insurance coverage, plus the cost of paying a railroad (BNSF?) to operate the excursion, and still offer tickets at a price that the public is able & willing to pay.

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