GeorgeS Layout Build - backdrops - Updated 03/08/2020

I'll start the popcorn.......

George, good news.  That's always exciting.  I'm confused by your description though.  Is the new layout going to be at your house or your parent's?  And how is it that tearing down the old layout failed?  And that was the one at your parent's house?  I guess it doesn't matter really but I read that a few times and remain confused.

I have a lot of plywood and wood ladder that I use for legs. The layout deck can be put together in a number of geometries. I’ll have at least two levels. I want this to be a multi-scale tinplate layout with standard gauge, O and O27. I would like the standard gauge to be on the outside, but am running into issues fitting my O gauge turntable and yard into this arrangement, because they need to be outside the standard gauge loops. I’m trying to avoid grades for the older tinplate but that is one option. I wish there was an O / Standard gauge crossing. I’m also trying to avoid simple loops to add interest. I have used reversing loops in the past. 

George

beachhead2 posted:

George, good news.  That's always exciting.  I'm confused by your description though.  Is the new layout going to be at your house or your parent's?  And how is it that tearing down the old layout failed?  And that was the one at your parent's house?  I guess it doesn't matter really but I read that a few times and remain confused.

Ahhh, sorry. Pronouns are a curse on language and meaning! 

The new layout will be at my house in my basement. What failed was the sale of our house. The real estate taxes and school district have killed its value. The old layout was taken down and moved to my parents in preparation for putting my house up for sale.

I will be moving the layout back from my parents, but it will be reconfigured in the process.

George

I see.  Thanks for the clarification.  It's funny that you mention the STD/O crossover.  I've thought of that many times over the last year or so.  I suspect that could be made.

I know they make 5 rail track for Standard/O, I would think there might be a crossover? Maybe Steve Eastman would know.

Hey George, this is great--you have a blank canvas. Looking forward to seeing the progress. Are you going to York?

John

Steamer posted:

I know they make 5 rail track for Standard/O, I would think there might be a crossover? Maybe Steve Eastman would know.

There are plans available to build 5 rail switches, but not for crossovers that I am aware of.

Steve

5 rail switches would be fantastic. 

sounds like a do it yer selfer for the crossover then

I did a search and found this thread: https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/...like-brands-of-track

Looks like ACE made a custom O gauge crossover. It would be easy to modify this for O and Standard gauge. I don't have a radial arm saw, so I'll need to be creative on how to mill the junction. It looks like it would work well and solve my problem. My other minor problem is that two loops of O and two loops of Standard is a lot of track and may constrain my space for accessories. I'll update this thread as I make progress. It might be a while given the time involved in prepping the space.

George

Hi John, Thanks! I’m not sure yet on York. It’s a little far off for me still considering I hardly know where I am traveling the next two weeks.

Will definitely look you up if I do. I’d like to get there Wednesday to see a bandit meet and “rush the door” to the Blue Hall on Thursday.

George

Hope to see you there, George--I'll be in the same place. 

John

It looks relatively easy to make the Standard / O gauge combo crossover. I found a Dremel router table for about $30 and need a 1/8 inch bit. I hope the table fits my battery powered Dremel. Now, I just need to find 11/16 inch plastic stock. I have some 1/2 inch Corion from a kitchen demolition that would work but might be too thin. I need to route a depth of 3/8 inch for the rail height. I could also get 3/4 inch stock and sand it down a 1/16 inch.

George

Here is my first attempt at the STD / O crossover.

The router cutting method is not working too well. I think the Dremel is not sturdy enough for the Corian. I ended up chipping a corner with it too. Also, the grooves need to be just a little wider. Lastly, I did not realize that the O gauge rail height is lower than Standard gauge. I'm going to need to shim the O gauge tracks. Plastic might be a little easier to work with than Corian, but I don't have any thick enough.

I'll keep working on it. I will actually need two of these on my layout.

George

looks pretty good for a first effort George (I expect my 10% for each one sold when you markert these). Keep at it, you'll get it.

Ok, it took me until now to get this far. The space is clear and the generator is in to keep the basement dry in a power outage. Here are pics of the space from each side.

I’m thinking about painting the ceiling. It’s a little too short to finish with tile or drywall. I also need to add more lighting. The space is roughly 39’ x 20’.

George

George S posted:

I’m thinking about painting the ceiling.

I did that once.  It was very easy and the results were just what I wanted.  You should do it.

Looks like a nice space for a layout.  

Use LED lighting for the room.  Econolight.com is a good place to order from.  They are in Sturtevant and my orders are always delivered next day.  Look for their deals when ordering, generally 10% to 15% off, with code.

I went with the panels that drop into my ceiling grid, but they sell several different styles.

NWL

Looks like a good canvas to start with 

Looks great, George!! Looking forward to seeing the progress. 

John

I finally finished (almost, some touch ups needed) painting the basement ceiling in my layout room. I also added some room divider partitions to hide the unsightly basement infrastructure. Here are some pics.

I added a lot of lighting including can and track lights. I also added an electrical outlet near the place that will have the control panel for the layout.

Next will be painting the walls and some floor touch ups.

George

Looks great.  It makes it look like a loft space.  It's nice that you have those big windows down there.

Looking good, George!   Waiting on the progress shots, and knowing they will be interesting as well as informative!  Great work on the dual gauge crossing, sir!

Jesse   TCA  12-68275

I’m about to load stacks of layout building materials into the layout room.

George

Looking good George. Wish I had that kind of space.

Just bought 30 yards of Kelly green felt at Jo-Ann.

George

I envy you guys with these huge basements.  My basement is 10' x 20' with a boiler, A/C air handler, well tank and electric panels.  I have squeezed a 3' x 12' temporary layout into the space.  It's not the ideal venue but it will suffice until D2 gets her stuff out of my garage attic.  

Sorry to seem like I'm hijacking your thread, but my thoughts may resonate among some.  

How thick is the felt you purchased ?   When I build my attic layout, I am contemplating green paint or something like your felt.  Since I operate post-war accessories, most of which have vibrator motors, I have had mixed results with them on soft surfaces. 

Hi Dan,

I do feel fortunate to have this space. It is half of the full basement. There is also a large crawl space that I had sealed. There was a little radon down there, so I had to put a mitigation system in. I also get a lot of ground water in the sump, so I had to install a generator to keep the sumps running if the power goes out. It paid for itself within 4 months when we lost power for 8 hours while we were out of town. ComEd gives me updates, which is nice when I’m away. 

The felt is pretty thick. Good point about the vibrating accessories! I plan to put my coal loader on the layout. I will need to cut the felt out from under it. 

Thanks for your post. You weren’t hijacking anything.

George

Today I worked on my engine maintenance facility having a slow day due to the holiday.

I added Evans Designs LEDs to the Atlas Engine Shed. Still more work to align the tracks to the turntable.

George

George S posted:

Hi Dan,

I do feel fortunate to have this space. It is half of the full basement. There is also a large crawl space that I had sealed. There was a little radon down there, so I had to put a mitigation system in. I also get a lot of ground water in the sump, so I had to install a generator to keep the sumps running if the power goes out. It paid for itself within 4 months when we lost power for 8 hours while we were out of town. ComEd gives me updates, which is nice when I’m away. 

The felt is pretty thick. Good point about the vibrating accessories! I plan to put my coal loader on the layout. I will need to cut the felt out from under it. 

Thanks for your post. You weren’t hijacking anything.

George

 

Good Thanksgiving morning George.  Thanks for your reply.  Let us know how your coal loader works.  When I build my layout, I may use felt instead of the green low pile carpeting I experimented with on my experimental layout.  The carpeting is nice but I found that drilling through it was difficult.  If I didn't separate the pile the drill would catch the nylon pile and wraps it around itself, causing a runner.  Cutting a section out of the carpet to allow an accessory to sit wasn't to hard but then the edges would tend to unravel.  If I decided to move an accessory, piecing the carpet back together wasn't always aesthedically pleasing.  

Felt, on the other hand has no pile and no pile to run.  Seems like piecing it back together might be easier too.  Could be the best solution.

George S posted:

I’m about to load stacks of layout building materials into the layout room.

George

It’ll be great to see it it action!

Like the black "sky" treatment.

The felt isn’t easy to cut. Fabric scissors might do a better job. My exacto knife doesn’t go through it too easily and you can’t drill through it. I am learning some tricks though. Cut it first where you are going to drill and open a space for the drill to go through without snagging. I’ll share more as I make more progress and run into the eventual problems.  It does go back together nicely without leaving a noticeable sign. I haven’t glued it down anywhere yet.

George

Tom Tee posted:

Like the black "sky" treatment.

Thanks. That was a lot more work than anticipated. I should have hired it out, but it is hard to find good help these days.

George

For cutting felt padding we always used a slotted blade carpet knife available where carpet installation tools are sold. 

WATCH IT ! 

You can cut a finger to the bone before you feel the incision.  Extremely sharp. 

Felt dulls the blade quickly, change the blade every 5' or so.  Cutting against a steel straight edge is best, the steel edge primary purpose is to  hold the felt steady & in place.

Hi George, good lucj with the new layout, have some fun and happy Thankf Giving

Ahh, carpet knives! Of course. I have those. Thanks @Tom Tee.

Happy Thanksgiving!

Here’s a little module I setup to run some trains.

George

Made some progress today.

Now I can work on my control panel before finishing more of the layout.

George

Hey George, I was looking at your crossover and had a thought. Why not try old school hardwood.

Easier to work with than corian or plastic.

non-conductive

Looks a lot classier.

beardog49 posted:

Hey George, I was looking at your crossover and had a thought. Why not try old school hardwood.

Easier to work with than corian or plastic.

non-conductive

Looks a lot classier.

If I use the Corian, I'll paint it black. I like the idea of hardwood with a stain. I just worry that it might not wear well with the trains running through it. I really need to get a table saw to make these crossovers easily. I tried using a router and the tolerances are too small. 

George

a lot of hard..... and soft.. wood was used on a lot of hundred year old trains. get some walnut and it

will out last you 

I was doing a little work on the layout this evening. I think I am going to use 5-rail track on the upper level loop.

I'm running out of benchwork and still have a lot of open space in the basement. 

George

Today I completed the first level benchwork on the left peninsula. Now I can sketch in track and layout the second level. I have parts to a second level already made, but I realized those were made to clear O gauge trains at 6.5”. I’m going to need 9.5” to 10” to clear Standard gauge.

I also placed orders for track with USA Track and Menards. My MTH / Lionel plastic roadbed track is on eBay right now. There will still be some Fastrack, Atlas and Gargraves on the layout until my budget gets replenished. I still have one Ross tinplate STD switch to buy and am plotting another STD loop, but I have plenty to do for now.

I started mounting the power supplies and realized I had left a few in storage.

Not a rush, since there’s only a little track down right now.

George

George S posted:

 

 

I started mounting the power supplies and realized I had left a few in storage.

George

Weld much?  You have enough power there to do some!

Rob English posted:

George S posted:

 

 

I started mounting the power supplies and realized I had left a few in storage.

George

Weld much?  You have enough power there to do some!

And, there are more packed away!  Also, one loop will have a switch to a DC transformer. 

George

Hey George,

When you drill through the felt, how do you keep it from winding up around the bit? I tried using felt once and it was a disaster.

PD

pd posted:

Hey George,

When you drill through the felt, how do you keep it from winding up around the bit? I tried using felt once and it was a disaster.

PD

I haven't done a lot of that yet. I had that problem. I widened the hole in the felt and kept it away from the bit or up around the shank of the bit if there was slack in the felt. I plan to slice the felt going forward if I am drilling from the top.

I don't think it will do that if it is glued down in the spot you are drilling. So, another option is to slice the felt and glue it down in that spot. Once dry, you can drill. That will take longer though. 

George

I laid out the upper level track and started making it 5 rail. By doing this, I should be able to put my Hellgate bridge on the second level.

George

George S posted:

pd posted:

Hey George,

When you drill through the felt, how do you keep it from winding up around the bit? I tried using felt once and it was a disaster.

PD

I haven't done a lot of that yet. I had that problem. I widened the hole in the felt and kept it away from the bit or up around the shank of the bit if there was slack in the felt. I plan to slice the felt going forward if I am drilling from the top.

I don't think it will do that if it is glued down in the spot you are drilling. So, another option is to slice the felt and glue it down in that spot. Once dry, you can drill. That will take longer though. 

George

Cut an X where you want to drill, then fold the flaps over and hold them out of the way with tape, then drill.

Steve

I hate to say it, but you should really pull the track up and put at least 1 inch styrofoam insulation down as a base.  Your layout is going to be very noisy otherwise, as it looks like you are screwing the track directly into the plywood. 

I know I wish I had put styrofoam in between the homasote and plywood on my layout.    

Nation Wide Lines posted:

I hate to say it, but you should really pull the track up and put at least 1 inch styrofoam insulation down as a base.  Your layout is going to be very noisy otherwise, as it looks like you are screwing the track directly into the plywood. 

I know I wish I had put styrofoam in between the homasote and plywood on my layout.    

I want to overhaul my temporary layout starting in January and do something like this.   Do you still secure the track to the foam,  and if so how?  

I kinda like the felt idea, but I have also had problems with the drill bit grabbing cloth and making a mess. 

Carpet padding would be much quieter

Nation Wide Lines posted:

I hate to say it, but you should really pull the track up and put at least 1 inch styrofoam insulation down as a base.  Your layout is going to be very noisy otherwise, as it looks like you are screwing the track directly into the plywood. 

I know I wish I had put styrofoam in between the homasote and plywood on my layout.    

I haven't installed anything permanently yet. Right now, the track is just floating. I know what you are talking about though. I do not plan on using foam and homasote, although I have read that is the new standard. For me, it's too expensive and too much work. However, your point is well taken that I need to plan on some sound treatment. I think the felt will help a little, but the biggest issue seems to be the screw going through the tie plate to the plywood. (Someone should make plastic screws!) Kirk, from USA Track, recommends not tightening the screw head down to the top of the tie. I have always done that, so I plan to back them off this time. I also read a trick on Tinplate Times that said to put window insulation under the track ties. That seems like a better option for me, although the carpet padding also sounds like a good idea. I'll play with some options. I don't even have all my track yet. 

My biggest issue is going to be the Fastrack that I still have. That has to be the noisiest track made. Eventually, I will replace that with Menards track.

George

I used this carpet pad right on top of plywood.  There's very little noise.  I suspect you'd be happy with something similar.

MikeH posted:

I used this carpet pad right on top of plywood.  There's very little noise.  I suspect you'd be happy with something similar.

What thickness? Will 3/8" work? Do I put it over the entire layout or just where the track is going to be?

George

I have used 3/8 with great results. The idea is to isolate the track from the table. 

My current little layout uses 3/8 foam roadbed, track is put together with track clips.

Then two sided tape is attached to the clip and then to the roadbed. No mechanical 

fastners (screws, nails etc) between track and table. Even the few trestles I have are

attached to the table with two sided tape. 

On a larger layout I built years ago I used the padding that is made with

little bits all pressed together. I got it for free, but an advantage turned out

that it could be painted. I don't know if the foam could be painted.

As far as the drilling felt problem goes, there are dozens of 

hole punch sets for leather, etc online.  Should work great. 

Cheap method would be to sharpen the end of a piece of 

brass tubing. 

Another thought, chuck a 3" piece of appropriate size tubing in your drill, sharpen the end,

drill hole in felt. Easier than pounding. 

What if I used this on top of the felt cut as roadbed?: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Fu...0553557-32/202601407

Do you folks think it would look right?

George

George S posted:

MikeH posted:

I used this carpet pad right on top of plywood.  There's very little noise.  I suspect you'd be happy with something similar.

What thickness? Will 3/8" work? Do I put it over the entire layout or just where the track is going to be?

George

George, that link is to the exact stuff I used.  Regrettably, I tossed all my extra scraps or I'd post a picture.  It's less than 3/8" though.  Maybe 1/4".  It is carpet pad made for area rugs as opposed to the bonded pad typically used for wall-to-wall carpeting.  This pad that I used has a rubber face on one side (for non-skid surface) and the other side is sort of felt-type material.  If you look at that Amazon pictures, that should match my description.  It's denser than the typical wall-to-wall carpeting pad.  It doesn't have near the sponginess.  Here's a couple of construction pics from last year:

George S posted:

What if I used this on top of the felt cut as roadbed?: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Fu...0553557-32/202601407

Do you folks think it would look right?

George

I don't think so.  If you go see the bonded pad in person, it usually won't present as gray like that picture.  That picture shows a gray/black product with flecks of pink, blue, red, etc. in it.  Usually, when you see that bonded pad, it will have a green tint or pink tint.  But you'll have to go to your local Home Depot to be sure. 

If I was building a layout from scratch like you, and was going to use pad, I would use the pad I linked to or something similar.  If I was going to use something visible, above the felt, as roadbed, I'd opt for purpose-made material like Flexxbed.  Although, I've never personally used Flexxbed so I can't opine on it's performance.  I just think it looks nice.

George,

Is that Dorfan train? Where did you find it?

Chris

LVHR

MikeH posted:

George S posted:

What if I used this on top of the felt cut as roadbed?: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Fu...0553557-32/202601407

Do you folks think it would look right?

George

I don't think so.  If you go see the bonded pad in person, it usually won't present as gray like that picture.  That picture shows a gray/black product with flecks of pink, blue, red, etc. in it.  Usually, when you see that bonded pad, it will have a green tint or pink tint.  But you'll have to go to your local Home Depot to be sure. 

If I was building a layout from scratch like you, and was going to use pad, I would use the pad I linked to or something similar.  If I was going to use something visible, above the felt, as roadbed, I'd opt for purpose-made material like Flexxbed.  Although, I've never personally used Flexxbed so I can't opine on it's performance.  I just think it looks nice.

I think it would work just fine, similar to what I have used. Just put your felt over it.

beardog49 posted:

I think it would work just fine, similar to what I have used. Just put your felt over it.

Sure.  Under the felt, just about any carpet pad will do.

lehighline posted:

George,

Is that Dorfan train? Where did you find it?

Chris

LVHR

Yes it is. I bought it on eBay with some of the cars. I bought other cars and the caboose at different times. The caboose didn't have a cupola roof, so I made one out of brass stock. The caboose was otherwise in too good of condition to pass up. 

I can't believe I found this engine in such great running condition. It runs like a rocket in both directions and pulls all the cars! That's way better than I can say for my Ives 1122. The Dorfan train was on eBay for a couple of weeks, and I made an offer. 

I tore down the track temporarily to build the second level. I'll take a video of the Dorfan running once I get the second level built.

George

George,

Great find! I just picked up a group of Dorfan freight cars. Interestingly enough, mine is also missing the roof to the cupola. Please share a closeup of your hand made replacement. I'd like to copy it!

Chris

LVHR

lehighline posted:

George,

Great find! I just picked up a group of Dorfan freight cars. Interestingly enough, mine is also missing the roof to the cupola. Please share a closeup of your hand made replacement. I'd like to copy it!

 

Chris

LVHR

Hi Chris,

Here are some pics of the caboose. I used a rod to shape the edges. I chose the rod size by comparing the ridge at the top of the cupola that the edge wraps around. The brass can also be painted to match the original. I believe there was red and green. I think the green is John Deere green found in a rattle can at Ace Hardware.

George

I made the upper level.

I laid out the track and some accessories for fitting. I’ll need to remove the track and felt as I complete the five rail track sections. I’ll install the carpet padding on the upper level at that time. Here is what I bought. I’ll need more, but I couldn’t fit the large roll in my car.

I also need to decide how to finish the side of the upper level. I’m thinking about a stone wall in spots. I may try printing it with my computer.

George

lehighline posted:

George,

Is that Dorfan train? Where did you find it?

Chris

LVHR

 

Here is a video of my Dorfan train running on the upper level.

George

That’s awesome.  I like it!  Keep going.

Awesome, George. Contact me privately and I will tell you how to drill thru

the padding, John

Thanks George! That is a nice set.

Progress this weekend... I installed the padding on the upper level. Now I need to finish the 5 rail track.

i started laying out the track on the lower level. The Standard Gauge loop is finished. It is mostly new USA Track with a little MTH and some vintage mixed in for the cuts. I have two loops of O gauge to complete, but I am worried about the clearances. 

I am also working on how I will finish the transition between the lower and upper levels. I’m thinking of making a wall like this.

George

             hello George,  layout is looking great !

              can we get more info on your turn table,  homemade ?   I like it  !

briansilvermustang posted:

 

             hello George,  layout is looking great !

              can we get more info on your turn table,  homemade ?   I like it  !

 

The turntable is homemade. I made it several years ago. It’s 36” so it can fit my entire Allegheny engine and tender on it. It’s not really a tinplate look, but it’s mine. The pit base is plywood hung with brackets from the table top. The pit walls are balsa wood. The drive motor is a Radio Shack antenna rotator. The bridge sits on a Lazy Susan ring. The sides of the bridge are balsa wood. The railings are brass stock cut and soldered together.

I used HO track for the pit rail. That’s my one regret. I should have cut a single rail of Gargraves but at the time worried about forming the circle.

George

       thank you George,  that is very nice !    maybe a possible video of it in action sometime...

          are there HO trucks under the bridge riding on the rails ?

Green felt - I should have thought of that when building my L-shaped layout. I used the "standard" green patio carpet, which has worked out well. I pre-decided not to paint the layout platform surface -- "too plain."

Although it's noticeable, I placed 3/8ths-inch brass grommets in all drilled holes with a spot of T6000 glue, then dressed the wiring through it to an accessory, lighted building, or switch. The grommet prevented carpet unraveling and (to me, at least) it presented a "finished look" instead of a bare hole.  If/when I must move an accessory to another location, I can pry the grommet loose. The carpet fibers tend to close and cover the hole. I use a small hand-held vacuum (by Woodland Scenics) to spot-clean the green carpet - it will pick up drill shavings and carpet fibers.

It's all in the details ...

Mike Mottler    LCCA 12394

briansilvermustang posted:

 

       thank you George,  that is very nice !    maybe a possible video of it in action sometime...

          are there HO trucks under the bridge riding on the rails ?

         

I tried that, with HO trucks. They bound on me. So, I installed rollers/casters that roll along the tops of the track. Then, I installed a thin piece of brass sheet as a wiper to pick up the power from the pit track. Power to the center rail runs through the Lazy Susan. I don't have the tracks powered yet, but the turntable is operational. I'll try a video this weekend.

George

   thanks for the info George,  will be watching for the video...   great looking turntable !

Another note about the turntable... When I built the turntable, I didn't know much about them other than pictures I had seen. Since then, I have read more and learned that real life turntables use electric drive mechanisms. To get electricity to a rotating turntable, a bridge structure is installed over the track to carry the power. You will notice that my turntable does not have one of these (yet). That's a project for my list. I may change out the HO track when I tackle that.

George

Nice progress on the layout George.  Good to see someone building something instead of rehashing, trying to get the perfect design, then never getting anywhere.  Too much of that on here.  I always believe in getting a train running ASAP to keep the motivation going.  Keep going.  It is super cool already.

Cheers,       W1

Update on the turntable: I started replacing the HO track with a single rail of Gargraves. I removed the HO and lowered the casters that used to ride them to run on the pit base and I moved the wiper. 

The motor is giving me trouble. I may need to find a replacement for that at some point. I would like to put one in that is slow, steady and stops precisely.

George

I also made some progress on the rest of the layout. Most of the track is laid out and fed with a single feeder. I have test run trains on them but need to try my largest items to check clearance. 

George

             George,   your layout and turntable are looking great !      have a Merry Christmas !

briansilvermustang posted:

 

             George,   your layout and turntable are looking great !      have a Merry Christmas !

 

 

Merry Christmas to you too!

George

Here's a little note on the plans to create a more finished look. I'm not sure when this will get done, but it will eventually. Once the wiring is done and the layout is mostly set up, I'll finish the edges with pre-finished trim board from Home Depot. Behind that will be a rod (I am thinking about EMT conduit but am open to suggestions). From the rod will hang black drapes to the floor. I hear these are available for low cost from Amazon, but I need to check length. For a backdrop, I will use the blue sky bulletin board paper from Hobby Lobby. The backdrop won't be everywhere, because I plan to decorate some of the walls with train memorabilia like my Illinois Central framed print that is already hanging. I write this here not only to share my plans, but as a place to reference when I get to these parts.

George

I finished laying the single pit rail for the turntable. ( almost, I still need to spike a few more rails and or glue some track ties to the pit.) I also started the yard. I’m short some tubular track, so it’s time for a Menards run! 

George 

A little update...

The yard and engine complex are coming along.

I built a Bilt E Z building that can hold my Budweiser Miller Engineering sign. 

I bought some Plastruct to make the turntable electrical bridge.

Here is how the turntable moves. I have a momentary switch that I am pressing to give small bursts of power to the motor. (I apologize for my breathing. My allergies are in full swing.) The motor is powerful enough to turn the bridge, but it tends to slip and then surge due to variable table friction. Never build the pit base out of plywood like I did. MDF is much more stable and avoids warping. I will eventually take this motor off to check how freely the bridge turns and the decide on a better motorized mechanism, even if it is converting this to an indirect, geared drive.

George

Wow, that’s awesome George.  Nice work.  Your layout looks great.  Keep going!

Thanks William!

I’m starting to setup the harbor. Still lots of detailing to do, but I wanted to get the platform up and layout the accessories. The black slate is going to be a barge and I have a Marx tinplate tug to add.

George

George S posted:

Thanks William!

I’m starting to setup the harbor. Still lots of detailing to do, but I wanted to get the platform up and layout the accessories. The black slate is going to be a barge and I have a Marx tinplate tug to add.

George

I like this simple straight forward technique for a water scene.  You could add rocks to the foam edges but I suspect you will simply paint the foam and be done.  Nice job!

beardog49 posted:

Awesome, George. Contact me privately and I will tell you how to drill thru

the padding, John

@beardog49,  I would love some advice on how to drill through the padding without making a mess.

George S posted:

I finished laying the single pit rail for the turntable. ( almost, I still need to spike a few more rails and or glue some track ties to the pit.) I also started the yard. I’m short some tubular track, so it’s time for a Menards run! 

George 

George, this is really inspiring to watch you put this together - thanks for sharing as you go.  If I may ask, what is the make and radius of the switches in this picture?  Do you run any modern trains or are you a strictly tinplate guy?

jhz563 posted:

George S posted:

I finished laying the single pit rail for the turntable. ( almost, I still need to spike a few more rails and or glue some track ties to the pit.) I also started the yard. I’m short some tubular track, so it’s time for a Menards run! 

George 

George, this is really inspiring to watch you put this together - thanks for sharing as you go.  If I may ask, what is the make and radius of the switches in this picture?  Do you run any modern trains or are you a strictly tinplate guy?

As for the rocks, I was planning on just painting the foam. I have rock molds, but think adding too much detail will take away from the toy look that I am going for.

The switches are Merkur tubular switches from the Czech Republic. They are 900mm curve, which is equivalent to O72. They make smaller radius, but not bigger. Everything runs through them including Marx and modern. They are manual switch machines. I am working on making them electric. Merkur has a servo system to do it, but I didn’t go that route.

I will run a few modern trains. I have several, but am not planning to buy anymore, except for modern tinplate. (Unless Lionel tempts me with something unusual in their LionChief lineup. )

George

Yesterday, I scratch built an electrical bridge for my turntable. I’m glad they are still making Plastruct in the days of 3D printing.

I made a rotating piece on top to attach a wire to and will install a pole to run the wire.

George

I installed the power pole and electrical lines to the turntable electrical bridge.

I also added the Marx tugboat to the harbor and painted the rock.

George

I changed the name of the topic and added a date for best practice. This way as I update progress, you will see when the date changes.

George

Looks like you are having a great time, and your scratch building skills are terrific.  Thanks for sharing.

George S posted:

I changed the name of the topic and added a date for best practice. This way as I update progress, you will see when the date changes.

George

Thank You; Thank You; a 1000 times Thank You.  Only wish more serial-type thread starters (OPs) would adopt this thoughtful (for the thread's followers) simple device--it makes it so much easier to follow the project's progress.

George, as a suggestion, please include a BOM for the bridge and the source for its design.

Looks terrific.

Pingman posted:

George, as a suggestion, please include a BOM for the bridge and the source for its design.

Looks terrific.

Hi Carl,

That's complicated. The design came from my mind's eye after reviewing dozens of pictures of turntables I searched for on the internet and one HO RR modeler site where they built one. I then went to the LHS and searched for the materials. Plastruct had the parts that worked for me. I used ABS, but I didn't write down the size. I am referencing the catalog now. The ladders came only in a cage, which I now have two of for another project. They were labeled O scale. I used one 24" strip of channel. I used two 12" OPEN WEB TRUSS - WARREN STYLE 2 sections (I bought 3, but only needed 2).

I ended up cutting the Plastruct with a Dremel and trimming with an Exacto knife. I laid the pieces out on a board and drew the dimensions on the board as a guide. For the width, I was working with the width of the bridge deck. For the height, I decided to make the upright the height of a Lionel O gauge tunnel portal then create the angle from there. I honestly eyeballed the angle. The top plastic piece is cut out of a clear SD card holder and glued to the Plastruct with Gorilla Glue Clear Contact Adhesive. The tubular part on the top is a broken Dremel EZ Lock Mandrel. I glued the Plastruct together with Plastruct Plastic Weld. I had to read some blogs on how to use that. Once it was all together and I checked that it fit the turntable, I primed it with Krylon gray primer, then immediately top coated it with Rustoleum Satin Black.

George 

I got the 5 rail track installed on the upper level. Here are standard gauge and o gauge trains running on the same loop at the same time.

There is one major S curve and a couple of the 2800 series auto couplers don’t like it and derail. This is odd, because this is O42 and these should run in O31. I’ll need to get all my 2800 series cars out and find out which ones work. It started cooking (with smoke) the truck when it derailed!

Also, it’s always something, my AF side rods started binding. So, I had to temporarily remove them.

George

With a mix of DCS and conventional, I should be able to run 8 trains simultaneously on this layout, without running more than two trains on any loop simultaneously.   I am also planning on an overhead G gauge loop.

The 5 rail track is the hardest to run std and o simultaneously, because the DCS scale speeds are different. Therefore I have to manually adjust the speeds of each engine.

George

George S posted:

I got the 5 rail track installed on the upper level. Here are standard gauge and o gauge trains running on the same loop at the same time.

 

There is one major S curve and a couple of the 2800 series auto couplers don’t like it and derail. This is odd, because this is O42 and these should run in O31. I’ll need to get all my 2800 series cars out and find out which ones work. It started cooking (with smoke) the truck when it derailed!

Also, it’s always something, my AF side rods started binding. So, I had to temporarily remove them.

George

I tweaked the S curve and moved the cars that were binding. Maybe it was just a rail misaligned? It works better now. The track is not screwed down yet. I ordered some 1" screws that can make it through the track and the padding. I don't plan to use a lot of screws, and I won't be tightening them too much. They are really just to prevent shifting of the track. 

As for the American Flyer side rods. I patiently reassembled each side and made sure everything was straight and the engine works fine now. I think maybe the mount to the frame in front of the brass piping twisted a little.

I also got my turntable to rotate more freely by backing each caster off 1/2 turn. 

There is also a little loop of O27 on the upper level. There are three straights in the loop. I need to cut each of those in half to create a little more clearance. 

George

I received a Ross Standard Gauge switch today and installed it to create the harbor siding. I haven’t wired it yet. It looks like I have extra standard gauge track, so I may need another switch to create a small yard.

George

George S posted:

I received a Ross Standard Gauge switch today and installed it to create the harbor siding. I haven’t wired it yet. It looks like I have extra standard gauge track, so I may need another switch to create a small yard.

George

I have 4 072 ross's and they are flawless,,,,except my 380 with the large spur gear dosnt like them,,cant win them all  

George S posted:

I received a Ross Standard Gauge switch today and installed it to create the harbor siding. I haven’t wired it yet. It looks like I have extra standard gauge track, so I may need another switch to create a small yard.

George

That's an LGB switch drive.  You should get many years of service from it, especially indoors.  

George, it appears that switch has a movable point frog. I wasn't aware they had such a thing in the model/toy train world. The switch looks really nice. I've been watching your progress, your new layout is coming along great! I also have enjoyed your video updates as well!

Rusty

Looks great, George!! I hope you like your Ross SG switches as much as I like mine; they are worth every penny. 

John

George.  5 rail crossover. If I can hold it in the vise I can mill it.  would have to make a jig.  It would have to be sq. 90°. X and y.

riki posted:

George.  5 rail crossover. If I can hold it in the vise I can mill it.  would have to make a jig.  It would have to be sq. 90°. X and y.

Thank you. I’m not happy with the smoothness of my O/STD 90 degree crossover. It needs more work. It could be the base... I don’t plan on a 5 rail crossover. That would be very ambitious!

George

Diverging Clear posted:

George, it appears that switch has a movable point frog. I wasn't aware they had such a thing in the model/toy train world. The switch looks really nice. I've been watching your progress, your new layout is coming along great! I also have enjoyed your video updates as well!

Rusty

Yes, it does have a moveable point frog. I never saw it work before. It’s very cool. I’ll try to take a video. Also, it has a supplemental switch on the LGB switch machine. I think it throws connectivity of the center rail with the switch direction.

George

George S posted:

Diverging Clear posted:

George, it appears that switch has a movable point frog. I wasn't aware they had such a thing in the model/toy train world. The switch looks really nice. I've been watching your progress, your new layout is coming along great! I also have enjoyed your video updates as well!

Rusty

Yes, it does have a moveable point frog. I never saw it work before. It’s very cool. I’ll try to take a video. Also, it has a supplemental switch on the LGB switch machine. I think it throws connectivity of the center rail with the switch direction.

George

I wired the Ross switch.

Here is a video showing the moving frog.

George

Ribbit.  George, keep going.  Glad to see someone going at it like you are.  That looks like fun.  Enjoy!

George S posted:

George S posted:

Diverging Clear posted:

George, it appears that switch has a movable point frog. I wasn't aware they had such a thing in the model/toy train world. The switch looks really nice. I've been watching your progress, your new layout is coming along great! I also have enjoyed your video updates as well!

Rusty

Yes, it does have a moveable point frog. I never saw it work before. It’s very cool. I’ll try to take a video. Also, it has a supplemental switch on the LGB switch machine. I think it throws connectivity of the center rail with the switch direction.

George

I wired the Ross switch.

Here is a video showing the moving frog.

George

the only thing I would like is a lighted controller,,,but I check lgb page and couldn't find one ,any suggestions?

Thank you for the demonstration of your new Ross switch, George! I appreciate you taking the time to do that!

I think it is cool that Ross has that feature, it's something that is actually used on real railroads around the globe! 

I think it will reduce the chance of a derailment while running your trains on your new layout, keep the updates coming!

Rusty

terry hudon posted:

George S posted:

George S posted:

Diverging Clear posted:

George, it appears that switch has a movable point frog. I wasn't aware they had such a thing in the model/toy train world. The switch looks really nice. I've been watching your progress, your new layout is coming along great! I also have enjoyed your video updates as well!

Rusty

Yes, it does have a moveable point frog. I never saw it work before. It’s very cool. I’ll try to take a video. Also, it has a supplemental switch on the LGB switch machine. I think it throws connectivity of the center rail with the switch direction.

George

I wired the Ross switch.

 

Here is a video showing the moving frog.

 

George

the only thing I would like is a lighted controller,,,but I check lgb page and couldn't find one ,any suggestions?

Hi Terry,

You would just need to buy a green and red LED ( or whatever color you choose). You would then run three wires from the open spots on the LGB supplementary switch (opposite the two wire power feed on the switch machine). The middle is power and each side corresponds to the direction the switch is thrown. If the switch is straight, the lead furthest from the switch will be connected to power and you could hook that to the green LED. You would then hook the other side to the red LED. Pretty straightforward. Evans Designs makes 14v already packaged LEDs in green and red. I will wire a dwarf signal next to the switch to show how it works.

George

William 1 posted:

Ribbit.  George, keep going.  Glad to see someone going at it like you are.  That looks like fun.  Enjoy!

Thanks William! In a way, this is reassembling a layout I tore down years ago, so it allows me to go faster. Also, I have been planning this in my head the last couple of years.

George

The Ross standard gauge switch was developed in cooperation with a committee of Standard Gauge Module Association members.  The goal was to design a switch which would work reliably with the widest variety of both vintage and modern standard gauge trains.  The switch motor also controls the electrical contacts routing power to the rails, and provides extra contacts for signals or controls.  We use these to control the aspect of nearby block signals, showing the position of the switch from a distance.  An added feature is that if two of their #4 switches are connected by their diverting routes, a crossover with the SGMA center to center track spacing of 7-1/4" is created.  This is the track spacing provided by the 42-57-72-87 curved track sections sold by USA Track LLC also.

You can't buy a better switch!

Kirk Lindvig

www.sgma.us

George S posted:

I got the 5 rail track installed on the upper level. Here are standard gauge and o gauge trains running on the same loop at the same time.

 

George

Hi George,

I have been enjoying following your progress on your layout. I haven't even started on a new layout yet.  This move is taking forever.  I am gathering ideas for what I will eventually build.  I consider myself a collector and curator of my collection, with operation being a lower priority.  I don't plan on building a layout as large as I had at the previous house.  I like your use of 5 rail track, which I have decided to use so I can run both gauges.  What are the dimensions of the second level that you have installed?  It looks great and may accomplish what I want. 

Keep the updates coming and keep up the excellent work.

Northwoods Flyer

Greg

Greg J. Turinetti posted:

George S posted:

I got the 5 rail track installed on the upper level. Here are standard gauge and o gauge trains running on the same loop at the same time.

 

 

George

Hi George,

I have been enjoying following your progress on your layout. I haven't even started on a new layout yet.  This move is taking forever.  I am gathering ideas for what I will eventually build.  I consider myself a collector and curator of my collection, with operation being a lower priority.  I don't plan on building a layout as large as I had at the previous house.  I like your use of 5 rail track, which I have decided to use so I can run both gauges.  What are the dimensions of the second level that you have installed?  It looks great and may accomplish what I want. 

Keep the updates coming and keep up the excellent work.

Northwoods Flyer

Greg

Hi Greg,

The upper level is a roughly 12.5' by 16' 'L' shaped loop using STD / O42 curves. That requires about a 5' square on each end for the turn around, but the runs can be brought close together to a board as narrow as 1 foot.

I think you should also consider some space for your S gauge trains. I added an O27 loop inside the 5 rail loop on my upper level and am planning a ceiling loop of G gauge track. Otherwise, those trains will just sit in boxes on the shelf.

George

Been tweaking track and running electrical, so not too exciting. I thought I would try to run six trains at the same time. See if you can find them all!😀

 The video ends with my Black Diamond observation car derailing on my Ross switch! (Well, almost. I added a night shot of my Budweiser sign running on my Bilt EZ building. Guess what I’m doing next.)

George

George S posted:

I added a night shot of my Budweiser sign running on my Bilt EZ building. Guess what I’m doing next.)

George

Cracking a beer? 

I think I fixed the derailing problem by tweaking the truck on the problem car. I ended up taking the wheel set out and reinstalling it after making sure the truck frame was straight. I'm not sure what exactly I fixed, but it has gone through a few times now without derailing. 

I also worked on my O/STD crossover. I redid the layout base under it as it was not level. Then I widened the grooves on the side that the STD trains go through, so the wheels aren't hitting the crossover. I recessed the mounting screw better and put a cap over it. Then, I painted it black. I'll get a picture when it's dry.

George

What does everyone think of the view under my Hellgate bridge? Mind you, my layout is a mythical city where all the major railroads operate, not NYC. So, the view can be anything. It’s actually a picture of the Inland Steel mill outside Chicago where I live and grew up. I’m not sure it looks right though. Too realistic for my tinplate layout maybe? Or too obviously a picture under a bridge? I’m trying to hide the tracks under and behind the bridge.

George

Imitating Dirty Harry......."you gotta ask yourself just one thing punk......do YOU like it?" It's a toy train layout. If you like it, that's all that matters George. 

I don't like it there.  Is that copyrighted?  A shot like that would be a good candidate for a custom backdrop on one of your walls.

MikeH posted:

I don't like it there.  Is that copyrighted?  A shot like that would be a good candidate for a custom backdrop on one of your walls.

A picture of a copyrighted item in another picture that is substantially more than the copyrighted picture, would fall under the fair use doctrine. The source did not list a copyright, but I always assume a privilege. That said, nobody is coming in my home with a warrant for a copyrighted picture on my wall. That case would throw intellectual property law on its ear.

So, it doesn’t look right. I’m still baffled what to put under the bridge...

George

George S posted:

MikeH posted:

I don't like it there.  Is that copyrighted?  A shot like that would be a good candidate for a custom backdrop on one of your walls.

A picture of a copyrighted item in another picture that is substantially more than the copyrighted picture, would fall under the fair use doctrine. The source did not list a copyright, but I always assume a privilege. That said, nobody is coming in my home with a warrant for a copyrighted picture on my wall. That case would throw intellectual property law on its ear.

So, it doesn’t look right. I’m still baffled what to put under the bridge...

George

Whoa!  I only asked that because if you send a copyrighted picture off to a professional printer such as one that prints big vinyl backdrops, then it would be an issue.  I'm no forum police.  Or as they say in the Ozarks:

Don't make me no nevermind. 

MikeH posted:

George S posted:

MikeH posted:

I don't like it there.  Is that copyrighted?  A shot like that would be a good candidate for a custom backdrop on one of your walls.

A picture of a copyrighted item in another picture that is substantially more than the copyrighted picture, would fall under the fair use doctrine. The source did not list a copyright, but I always assume a privilege. That said, nobody is coming in my home with a warrant for a copyrighted picture on my wall. That case would throw intellectual property law on its ear.

So, it doesn’t look right. I’m still baffled what to put under the bridge...

George

Whoa!  I only asked that because if you send a copyrighted picture off to a professional printer such as one that prints big vinyl backdrops, then it would be an issue.  I'm no forum police.  Or as they say in the Ozarks:

Don't make me no nevermind. 

Sorry Mike. Thought you were saying I couldn’t use it or post it here. Love the Ozarks colloquialism! Can’t say I’ve heard that one before.

I haven’t really thought about scenery backdrops other than blue sky yet, since the upper level blocks most of that type of view.

George

George,

I think the concept is great.  Perhaps using a print that has the style of catalog art would give you the look you want.  SGMA president Wayne Strobel has made some amazing backdrops for the TCA National Toy Train Museum by photoshopping old catalogs.

Kirk Lindvig

www.sgma.us

Thanks Kirk. I'll look into that. I've decided that I don't like it. I think to Mike's point, it would look better as a backdrop. I think there is too much sky in the picture and it is too realistic. There is something off with the perspective too. I am running into the limits of my technical art skills.

George

Here is another option. I can fill in the foreground with some ceramic houses and trees and then use a black background further back in front of the standard gauge track. I need to get a few ceramic houses out of storage.

George

I like this better. The other backdrop was nice but it would be hard to blend in.

As always- your railroad, your rules!

I like the concept George.  I'm not sure the ceramic houses are the solution.  I'd like to see something along the lines of what Kirk is suggesting...some kind of catalog art adapted for that space.  Then the trees in front of it would make a nice transition.  What have you decided to do with the transition between the two levels?

Northwoods Flyer

Greg

George S posted:

Here is another option. I can fill in the foreground with some ceramic houses and trees and then use a black background further back in front of the standard gauge track. I need to get a few ceramic houses out of storage.

George

George, I'm going to come right out and say I don't care for either one.  Fir trees with snow under the Hellgate Bridge is just, well, odd.

Isn't there track behind there? Just leave it open so you can see the trains go by back there. After all, the idea of a multiloop layout is to see several trains at once. Later if you want, you can put a simple back drop on the wall behind those tracks.

Your layout style is "classic floor layout tinplate" with a flat green table top. Keep it simple and let the trains and accessories dominate. If you start adding unrelated realistic scenic bits, you will confuse the issue, IMO. 

You might consider:

I applied velcroed panels on my backdrop on my 9x16 Attic layout so I could remove them later and have C Sam paint  selected scenes or apply ready  made scenes. Unfortunately, serious health issues invaded in early 2010 and I never got around to the scenes. Sits dormant now in 2020..

Greg J. Turinetti posted:

I like the concept George.  I'm not sure the ceramic houses are the solution.  I'd like to see something along the lines of what Kirk is suggesting...some kind of catalog art adapted for that space.  Then the trees in front of it would make a nice transition.  What have you decided to do with the transition between the two levels?

Northwoods Flyer

Greg

There will be a stone wall around most of it. You can see a couple of sections I printed on either side of the bridge. I think I will keep the one section just green felt, which will look like a grassy hill.

George

Thinking of what bridges generally go over, I'd be thinking about a picture of a roadway or a river and set back a little under the bridge from the front edge. Doesn't have to be realistic - something whimsical could work.

Just my $ 0.02

Will posted:

George S posted:

Here is another option. I can fill in the foreground with some ceramic houses and trees and then use a black background further back in front of the standard gauge track. I need to get a few ceramic houses out of storage.

 

George

George, I'm going to come right out and say I don't care for either one.  Fir trees with snow under the Hellgate Bridge is just, well, odd.

Isn't there track behind there? Just leave it open so you can see the trains go by back there. After all, the idea of a multiloop layout is to see several trains at once. Later if you want, you can put a simple back drop on the wall behind those tracks.

Your layout style is "classic floor layout tinplate" with a flat green table top. Keep it simple and let the trains and accessories dominate. If you start adding unrelated realistic scenic bits, you will confuse the issue, IMO. 

You have a point. I got the idea from this picture of Railroads on Parade. http://thefreegeorge.com/thefr...1/07/Railroads-2.jpg

George

Richie C. posted:

Thinking of what bridges generally go over, I'd be thinking about a picture of a roadway or a river and set back a little under the bridge from the front edge. Doesn't have to be realistic - something whimsical could work.

Just my $ 0.02

I'm also having trouble with setting it back under the bridge. The bridge creates a shadow on the picture, which screams out that it is a photo. I've tried using lighting under or in front of the bridge to get rid of the shadow, but it doesn't work. The only thing that works is pulling the picture forward.

George

Steamer posted:

Imitating Dirty Harry......."you gotta ask yourself just one thing punk......do YOU like it?" It's a toy train layout. If you like it, that's all that matters George. 

I agree with Dave,

When it comes right down to it you are the one who will be looking at it most of the time.  Keep experimenting until you find what you like.

Northwoods Flyer

Greg

get some blue paint, make a river. find some antique Battleships, and viloa'

George, I go along with the comment, "Do you like it?" and Greg's "Keep experimenting until you find what you like" and any idea we can come up with.  I like Dave's idea of blue paint and a battleship, but how much space is there from the rear of the bridge to the first track you are trying to hide?  Maybe a tug boat would fit better.

I'll try to think of other suggestions, as it seems others are doing!  

Steamer posted:

get some blue paint, make a river. find some antique Battleships, and viloa'

 

 

I'd love to do a water scene and battleships are cool, but there isn't space. I could build it to show the trains passing in the back, but there is a bit of layout construction to camouflage. 

George

How about a model of your yacht?  

Small (maybe 2-3 pieces) oil tank farm you can make from a few PVC sections to custom height and diameter and then paint and decal yourself. Doesn't have to look too realistic.

I didn’t want my road ending against a wall so I made a dummy tunnel with cars in it. You could add roads going under the bridge going into a fake tunnel.

Steve

Steve "Papa" Eastman posted:

I didn’t want my road ending against a wall so I made a dummy tunnel with cars in it. You could add roads going under the bridge going into a fake tunnel.

Steve

Very cool Steve. The fake tunnel is awesome! I had to do a double take. I especially like the cartoon style of a the block mortar joints. 

George

Steve, what are those cars? They look like small models of the old metal pedal cars we had as kids.

George S posted:

Steamer posted:

get some blue paint, make a river. find some antique Battleships, and viloa'

 

 

I'd love to do a water scene and battleships are cool, but there isn't space. I could build it to show the trains passing in the back, but there is a bit of layout construction to camouflage. 

George

some of the old ones I see in antique shops are about the size of a Matchbox car. And I used to build some when I was in school, don't remember the scale, but they were waterline kits. Used to lay tin foil down and they would look like they were on the water, Less than a foor longt IIRC.

Will posted:

Steve, what are those cars? They look like small models of the old metal pedal cars we had as kids.

They are Hallmark Kiddie Car Classics. They are mini versions of pedal cars. All the buildings and accessories in that section of the layout are from Hallmark.

Steve

So, Steve inspired me, and here is what I came up with.

I didn’t try to put anything in the tunnels. I could cut them out later to show the trains behind them, but my layout building philosophy is that there should be hidden tracks to create interest. Trains “disappear” into a tunnel and reappear somewhere else. All the magic goes away if you can see them in the background.

I’m also installing cardboard as backing for my block walls. I found a better, less realistic stone wall picture that you can see under the bridge. The cardboard is coming from what my wife calls my cardboard box collection.

George

I think it is going to look great, George!!